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He'll be different with you, you're special.
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You two have a "connection," a rapport that he didn't have with his wife. You have more things in common, similar personalities. He's pointed out all the ways that you two are so alike - it's just uncanny. You are so lucky to have met him at this point in your life. He says that he really appreciates you for who you are - and he's the first person to really do that, isn't he? Sure, he said the same things to *her* when he got together with her (and then grew to hate so many things about her), but it's different with you. He couldn't possibly be operating from scripts anymore. And it's so nice to finally have someone YOU can lean on, isn't it? It's hard being on your own, managing a household, and doing it all yourself. All of a sudden, here's this guy offering to help in ways that no one ever did. Knowing all the things you have been longing for and wanting in a partner. He couldn't possibly be hooking into your heart-felt desires and hurt places and pretending to be the answer, because he knows that's where you are vulnerable. He couldn't be pretending to like the things you like, and want the things you want, and be the person you have been looking for, because it's part of his patterns. Just because he did that with the women that came before you, doesn't mean he's doing that with you. He's really sincere this time.

He's told you all his deep dark secrets (at least, all the ones he thinks can win him sympathy and attention). He's acknowledged how he behaved badly in the past (even though it was brought out by who he was with). You two must have a very special connection for him to be so open and "honest". And he seems to be remorseful, so that must mean he won't do that kind of thing again, right? Not with you. You're special. So what if he told his wife the same kinds of deep, dark secrets, opened up in the same way? So what if he exhibited the same kind of remorse for things he did to partners before HER? So what if he told her all the same sob stories and pretended to be working on his [censored] with her? So what if he lied to his therapist and others? He really means it this time, with you.

He says things are going to be different with YOU. Even though he SAYS he accepts responsibility for his actions, he also says that it was really things in HER that brought out his bad behavior. He's not going to be like that with YOU. Sure, he said the same things to HER, but this time he'll be different, because he's told you how YOU are different from her. (So what if he's told other people how you remind him of HER? That doesn't mean he's following the same old patterns, targeting the same types of women. That doesn't mean that he'll be turn emotionally abusive with YOU at some point...) He's such a sweet, wonderful, helpful guy, it MUST have been something in HER that caused him to act badly, right?

So what if he was busy cutting her down behind her back with their mutual friends while he was telling her she was the "best thing that ever happened to him", and that he had "never loved anyone as much as he loved her"? That doesn't mean he still has the capacity to be manipulative and dishonest and cruel. He was just confused, the poor man. And besides, he won't be like that anymore, with the right woman to love him and dote on him. She just didn't give him the kind of attention he really needed. But YOU will. So he'd NEVER do that to YOU.

So what if he didn't leave his wife before he got together with you? It's not like an abuser should spend a few years in therapy, and work on his stuff before getting involved in another intimate relationship, right? I mean, after over 4 decades of emotional abuse and being an abuser, he can get himself fixed up enough to stop harming others in a just few months, with the right woman to rescue, er, "help" him.

And those stories of how his wife emotionally abandoned him... He's just had it so ROUGH all his life! He told you how she didn't even try to keep the marriage together or say that she wanted to try to salvage their relationship when he said he wanted to separate. She was just so unfeeling! The poor man - here he was trying so HARD and all - seeing a counselor and everything! It couldn't possibly be that SHE was so emotionally beaten down by his behavior that she was RELIEVED when he wanted to leave... He couldn't have been emotionally abusive and dishonest with HER too! If his wife didn't trust him, it had nothing to do with HIM and his behavior - it must have been HER issues.

Even if in his past, he DID say, "Some of the problems I bring about by vamping, pumping up the emotional content of a situation. Of course that's easy to do with a new friend. I have a stock of techniques and behaviors, tested. I'm also inventive ... so I pick up new techniques fairly quickly ... It's just I'd rather enjoy the "romance". It comes naturally to me. I enjoy doing it. It's also a head trip for me, with my poor self esteem, to have someone so taken with me. I like the first results, the joyous feelings, the elation, the euphoria, just not where it leads." ... he couldn't possibly still have been doing that with his wife, or even YOU. He has REAL, deep feelings for you. You've even seen him cry and show his vulnerable side. That MUST mean he's sincere, right? He couldn't possibly be using YOU for an ego stroke. Not the man YOU know.

He's just so caring and sensitive and considerate. He's so sweet, rubbing baby oil all over you, making love, sending you little cards, doing all those romantic things. He really does seem too good to be true - cooking, cleaning, intelligent, literate, creative, affectionate. So what if he was like that for the first year or so with her too... before the subtle patterns of abuse started to creep in? So what if all that "wonderful" behavior shifted until he was telling her he loved her one day and then telling others how horrible she was behind her back the next? He wouldn't do that to you too, down the road. She must have brought it out in him. He couldn't possibly be playing the same game over and over again, with you as the next target. No. This time, he'll be different, with you.

So what if he has been incapable of honesty and integrity all his life? So what if he actually admitted to his wife (just about the time you two started up again): "I am afraid of truth-tellers. I have so many lies in my past and present. The truth burns." That couldn't mean that he was telling lies to YOU. After all, he was so HONEST about his dishonesty so THAT'S got to count for something... It must mean he realizes his mistakes and won't make the same ones again, right? The fact that he acknowledges things is so CONVINCING. If he acknowledges it, then he couldn't possibly STILL do those sorts of things. Sure, sure. He had HER convinced too. But he couldn't possibly be STILL lying to YOU. You're special.

Yeah, sure, he might have done those kinds of things in the past, but the past is the past, right? It doesn't have any danger of repeating itself with you. Because you're special. His love for you is so strong and your connection to each other is so different (at least, that's what he has told you, and you know you can trust him, right?), he wouldn't EVER do anything deliberately hurtful or malicious to YOU. He wouldn't undermine YOUR support network and use your friends to hurt YOU. He'd never make snide remarks about YOU behind your back and then make sure you found out about it. No no no. She must have brought that out in him. But you, you're special.

Besides, he's been in therapy. That must mean he's sincere, right? He wouldn't possibly be using the whole "therapy" thing as a cover-up to make himself look better because his reputation got damaged after the fiasco with his wife. He couldn't possibly be using contrition, and the "I feel so bad about myself"-line to get sympathy and support! He couldn't possibly be going after women who have a strong sense of personal responsibility because he knows how to manipulate that to try and get them to feel responsible for HIS sick feelings. He couldn't possibly be seeking out active, intelligent, dedicated women, so that he can PUNISH them when they don't direct all that energy to HIM. Just because he has engaged in such manipulative behavior in the past doesn't mean he would be doing that NOW. Not with YOU. You're SPECIAL.

He's so contrite and sincere about "working on his issues", he couldn't possibly be lying about that. Just because he has a history pathological lying to himself and others, doesn't mean he'll be that way with you. Besides, if he has deceived himself so completely that HE doesn't know it's a lie, then he can't be held accountable for it, right? He can always claim that he doesn't have good "memory" for things in the past. But don't worry. He won't use that sort of deception and evasion with YOU. You're special.

The poor guy just made bad choices before (you). Sure he made mistakes, but if his ex doesn't want to have anything to do with him, and now think he is mentally ill, it must be because SHE is unstable - I mean, look at how amazing and kind and charming he is with you... He couldn't possibly have been like that with HER TOO... He wouldn't be using stock romance "lines" on YOU.
This time, it's REALLY love. You're Special.

Sure, he did a *few* things in his past that were unkind, but he needs to be forgiven for HIS behavior, (after all, she drove him to it), but HER mistakes and reactions to his emotional abuse, were unforgivable. But things will be different with you. He won't think YOUR mistakes are unforgivable. He won't apply a double-standard to YOU. He won't expect YOU to be perfect and subtely criticize you when you don't measure up to his standards. You're the one who is going to change his life.

And speaking of unforgivable, of COURSE he can't forgive her for doing things that *hurt* him (he's so deeply sensitive, you see) - but he couldn't possibly have lied about the things he said she did. He couldn't possibly have "set up" situations so he could cry foul... He wouldn't have ENCOURAGED her to do things so he could later claim that he was hurt by her... And, well, even if he DID, maybe do that, he certainly won't do it with YOU. You're too special for that. Any time he tells you he's happy for you and he encourages you to do something, he'll REALLY mean it, with YOU. He won't create a revisionist fantasy of your past so that he can insist you did things to hurt him as a justification for his cruelty to you. He won't secretly resent you for not devoting all your time to him. Even if he DID do that with her, he won't do it with you. Especially after he makes all those sacrifices for you. He won't secretly be dependent on YOU for all his attention. He won't be more demanding of you and your time and resent you when you don't give it all to him. Not THIS time. You're SPECIAL.

He's such a nice guy, he won't "help" you (especially unsolicited) and then have an unstated hidden agenda like he did with all the others. He's going to claim his right to be "selfish" now, because he's been so USED from all the excessive GIVING he did in the past that nobody really appreciated. The poor guy. He's never taken time to be selfish in the past - not even when he was sitting alone in his room, sucking off his hurts, or using other people. That wasn't selfish - that was just "acting out". But he's better now. Don't worry. He won't use his new-found right to be "selfish" against YOU. No. He really is a changed man, with you. With you he will give unconditionally.

It's no WONDER he behaved so badly! Look at how his wife was always hurting him, oppressing him with her refusal to live her life solely for him, expecting him to be honest with his feelings and actions, when he just wasn't ready. And besides, he just can't handle confrontation, you know? And like, she's just so SCARY when she's upset (it's just so unbeCOMing when women display any anger!) that he HAD to act that way. She actually raised her voice at times! Can you imagine? Nobody else is allowed to have anger and raise their voice except HIM. Because, like, he can't DEAL with it, and he shouldn't be expected to! He couldn't possibly have been projecting HIS issues on her so that someone else could have his anger FOR him, or so that he could get angry with someone other than himself! He couldn't possibly have been DELIBERATELY hitting all her hot buttons to hurt and upset her so he could lay blame. And, well, even if he DID do that for years, he won't do it anymore, with you.

And if somehow you accidentally do things that "trigger" his old abuse patterns, he'll be so sweet in telling you how you are doing things that remind him of her, so that YOU can change YOUR behavior. After all, you wouldn't want him to start acting emotionlly abusive again because of something YOU did.

And you don't have to worry about that, because you'll never get upset with him, and you'll never challenge him to be honest or to accept responsibility for his actions. SHE did that, and it was "controlling," but it'll be different with you, because you know better. And you won't need to worry about calling him on his behavior anyway, because he'll NEVER lie to YOU. He'll always be completely honest and upfront with you. He won't have to "forget" any promises he made to YOU. If he is inconsiderate, it won't be DELIBERATE, with you. If he lied to her or anyone else, it was because they drove him to it. With you, he won't withhold information, or distort or omitt the truth. He won't break fundamental relationship agreements with YOU. He won't HAVE to, because you'll be right there validating him 24/7, supporting him and telling him how he's so CLEVER and BRAVE to have escaped such a horrible relationship, and how wonderful it is that he is working so HARD to overcome his terrible past!

And it's a good thing he's not going to do any of those things he might have done in the past, because then you won't have to worry about forgiving him. You see, she REPEATEDLY forgave him for the lies and the accidentally-on-purpose "mistakes", and all that did was make him feel bad about himself - that she could forgive and he couldn't. Wasn't that AWFUL of her to make him feel so bad that way? So she DESERVED to be punished even more. And she should NEVER have shown any guilt when he manipulated her. It just caused him to hurt her more. He told her it was "like blood in the water for sharks" for him. She should have known better. YOU know better. But then, he won't be manipulative and passive-aggressive with YOU. He'll be different with you. You're SPECIAL.

And sure he made her work at the relationship when he wasn't really trying, but that wasn't being dishonest - he just didn't know what he really wanted, so that made it OK to put the burden of the relationship responsibility on her. Sure he admitted that he wanted her to make him the first priority in HER life, but he wasn't willing to afford her the same consideration. But that wasn't one of his patterns. He won't do that with YOU. Besides, he admitted his dishonest behavior after he abandon her, so that makes it ok. It erases everything. His slate's clean. He even said he was sorry, months later, so that shows how sincere he was. He couldn't possibly still have been interlacing the apology with blame. He's not STILL acting manipulative and projecting issues.... and well, if he is, he's only doing that with HER because of their history - he wouldn't do that with YOU.

And it's so sweet how he still talks about how much he cared for his wife, how much he did for her out of love. Sometimes, he even talks fondly of his treasured memories of her, of how she "helped" him (when she wasn't hurting him, the witch) - that must mean he's a deep, sensitive guy, right? Maybe you can even "help" him to forgive her and heal from his terrible past... Just like SHE thought she could "help" him.

And besides, he did so many NICE things for her and all those other women. That should count for SOMETHING, right? It's not like he was emotionally abusive or manipulative ALL the time. So it kind of cancels things out, right? It's not like he HIT anyone or anything. At least the things he did didn't leave any VISIBLE marks. Besides, he probably just made honest mistakes, that's all. He couldn't have actually got off on seeing them hurt and crying. He wouldn't have LAUGHED condescendingly in someone's face while she was crying. Not the man YOU are involved with. HE certainly doesn't remember doing anything like that - and HIS memory is inviolate.

He's told you how different he feels with YOU. How different he IS with you. How healing your love is. How much he NEEDS you. What a wonderful person he thinks you are. How important you are in his life. How much he values and appreciates you, and misses you when you are not together. How amazingly transformed he feels now that he has finally met someone as SPECIAL as YOU. So what if he told her the same things? He really MEANS it this time, with you. He's a changed person, (this time, for REAL) with you. You're special.

You don't need to talk to any of his ex's to find out what he was REALLY like, because the past is the past, right? You couldn't possibly learn anything from their experiences, because he's not going to be like that anymore. It couldn't possibly be that they have anything valid to say. Besides, you trust him to tell you the WHOLE TRUTH about his past (as far as he can "remember" it), right?

And he's such a sensitive, caring guy, he REALLY does wish he and his wife could be FRIENDS now. He can't understand why she would have NO desire to have any contact with him, NO desire to have anything to do with him - after all he did for her, after what they had. After all, SHE is the one who did unforgivable things. He's so uncomfortable around her now, because of how much she hurt him. He wouldn't STILL be projecting HIS issues on her, and implying that they are HER issues... After all, he's a changed man.

But you don't have to worry. He won't PUBLICLY divulge YOUR insecurities or deeply intimate things you told him in confidence to other women - he won't betray your trust - like he did with her. No matter what happens between you and him, you'll ALWAYS BE FRIENDS. You and he will always be able to work things out. So what if he said EXACTLY THE SAME THING TO HER (and all the others) too? It'll be different with you. You're special.

He won't wait a year or two before he starts in on YOU. He won't then use his knowledge of YOUR insecurities and emotional hot buttons to deliberately hurt YOU. He won't start using psychological warfare to couch his deliberately hurtful actions in social plausibility with YOU. He won't flirt with your close friends and use any attraction they might have to him, against YOU. NO. He won't tell you that you just weren't meeting his needs or living up to his expectations. He won't expect you to read his mind. He won't try to make it look like YOU are the reason he is unhappy, and YOU are the cause of your relationship problems. He won't set you up to get upset with him so that YOU are the one who breaks it off with him, (or you get so angry with him that he HAS to break it off with YOU) and HE looks like a martyr (AGAIN). So what if he made all the same promises to her? Just because he was following some of his old patterns when he got involved with you, doesn't mean he's going to follow through on the rest of them. He's CHANGED now.

You're special. Just like SHE was when he was with HER. Just like they ALL thought they were.

YOU are the one who can "fix" his wounded ego. Your relationship with him will be So Much Better than his last ones, because you're special! With you, he'll be honest and straight-forward for the first time in his life. He won't become cruel or passive-aggressive. He won't play headgames anymore. He'll stop using and discarding people like old kleenex. He won't be rude or unkind or disrespectful like he was with those other women. HE LOVES YOU SO MUCH, HE'S NOW A CHANGED MAN. (Changed for the better, of course.) Not because of therapy. Not because he's removed himself from relationships and taken some serious time to get his [censored] together. Not because he's done any REAL work. Not because he's actually admitted to his real motivations, or made a single sincere change.

He just needed to find the RIGHT woman to "save" him from himself and "help" him become a better man, and that's YOU.

You just KNOW he'll be different with you. Right?

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There are several different types of affairs, but this post will deal with the "romantic" type. In this type of affair, the wandering or wayward spouse (WS) has crossed a boundary and "fallen in love" with an affair partner (OP, other person). What makes this affair so difficult to deal with is that it is emotionally driven. The "in love" state is often so powerful that the WS may be willing to sacrifice the marriage and just about everything else to pursue it.

You have probably heard about or known a teenager who has been told that the person they are dating and in love with is using him or her or is demonstrably bad for them. Have you ever seen such a person take anyone’s advice and stop seeing this lover? It’s rare, because one’s emotions corrupt any attempt at clear thinking. This is what happens in romantic affairs. It is a powerful fantasy relationship in which the partners may idealize each other and bond in a way that makes everything else in their lives seem insignificant by comparison. If your spouse is engaged in a romantic affair and agrees to break it off, you are extremely lucky.

From the point of view of a betrayed spouse (BS), one’s spouse having an affair appears to be a rejection of you in favor of someone else. This can be a devastating blow to your self-esteem. You hear things like “I love you, but I’m not in love with you,” and other statements along similar lines. You are shocked that this person who pledged to love you through thick and thin or until “death do us part” has suddenly forgotten that commitment or decided to revoke it without advance notice. (Chances are your spouse never talked about a marital crisis or separation or divorce before the affair.) They don’t want to work on the marriage, and you don’t understand why. They latch onto any events in your past in which you had a disagreement with them, no matter how rare or insignificant they seem, as evidence of your incompatibility. They won’t go to counseling, or if they do, they use it by sabotaging the counselor’s efforts and then tell you “I told you it wouldn’t work!” They won’t stop the affair, even though you can point out a dozen practical reasons for stopping it and fixing the marriage. They are not concerned about the children, after all, “they’ll adapt.” Your joint personal finances are jeopardized because the pursuit of love is more important than worrying about money or mortgages or credit card bills. Your wandering spouse’s family and friends may turn against you too. You don’t know what they’ve been told, but it’s a safe bet that they’ve been given a laundry list of grievances against you, while carefully leaving out the details of how they lied, cheated, and deceived you to pursue their affair. Of course, all those things were justified because you weren’t a good spouse, and this new person in their life is their true soul mate.

You’re angry, upset, and depressed. You fluctuate between these emotions while trying to make sense of it all. But you can’t make sense of it because infidelity is not a sensible act. In fact, much of what your spouse does seems self-destructive. That is because it is self-destructive, and if you are not careful your spouse will destroy you, too.

What can you do when you discover that your spouse is engaged in a romantic affair? Well:

“I advise spouse’s who are waiting for their mate’s romance to end: don’t try to out-romance a romantic. Don’t bother to arouse jealousy. Don’t try to get your partner’s attention, increase your partner’s guilt, or threaten some kind of unpleasantness. Just express your point of view and then go off and do whatever holds you together during this time.”


Only Dr. Harley offers a plan for dealing with a spouse who is unwilling to stop the affair (see Plan A and Plan B on the MB website). But even Dr. Harley acknowledges that affairs of this nature are extremely difficult to break. They are often characterized as addictions, because they share many of the self-destructive traits that are visible among alcoholics and drug addicts. Most affairs will have to “burn out,” that is, they run their course until the romance fades and reality intrudes to destroy the fantasy. Unfortunately, this very often doesn’t happen until a lengthy separation between husband and wife occurs, or in some cases, after a divorce.

Here are some things to consider:

1. The affair is not your fault. No matter what the state of the marriage prior to the affair, no one forces the WS to have the affair, and having the affair is clearly not a solution to marital problems. (Click this link: It's Not Your Fault)

2. It is a myth that affairs don’t occur in good marriages. People in good marriages DO have affairs. Dr. Pittman says the following:

"Romantic affairs happen in good marriages even more often than in bad ones."

You probably know someone who loves their wife or husband and claims to have a good marriage, but still can’t turn down an opportunity for a sexual encounter with someone else. This is especially true of philandering men. There are other reasons why people engage in affairs that have nothing to do with the marriage itself; self-esteem issues, depression, sexual addictions, etc.

3. Don’t take the affair personally. This is not a rejection of you; this is simply a bad choice by your partner who most likely tried to hide the affair from you because they didn’t want to lose you.

4. The OP is not necessarily more attractive or sexier than the betrayed spouse (BS). Most of the time the affair partner is no better in bed than the BS, it’s just that the intense emotional involvement makes it seem so, especially for women. Also, the OP is often chosen more for his/her incompatibility with the WS than for any similarities; the greater the differences, the more intense the relationship.

5. Not all affairs result in divorce. Most statistics indicate that, of couples who seek counseling for having marital problems due to an affair, between 80 and 85% reconcile. In Pittman’s experience, most of the couples who divorced after an affair did so because of the steadfast refusal of the WS to stop the affair.

6. Nearly all affairs end, usually within two years or less. Even when the affairees marry each other, only 25% of them are still together after 5 years. Pittman found that five years after the revelation of an affair, most WSs were back with their marriage partner.

7. In romantic affairs, it is usually a waste of time to try to talk the WS into stopping the affair, working on the marriage, or getting counseling. But it won’t hurt to try once or twice when you first uncover the affair. Don’t expect the WS be sensible or practical.

8. Although it goes against Dr. Harley’s advice, it may be a bad idea to assume responsibility for marital problems at the time of discovery of a romantic affair. That’s because the WS is looking for justification for the affair and by assuming responsibility for any marital problems, real or imagined, you are inadvertently giving your spouse an excuse for his/her actions. No attempt to solve marital problems will work while the affair continues. Stop the affair first, then talk about marital problems and their solution.

9. Don’t beg for a second chance or promise to change in an attempt to persuade your WS to stop the affair or prevent separation or divorce. This doesn’t work. Don’t allow what love your WS has for you to be turned into pity. Keep a bold front, even if it is only a façade and you are crumbling inside.

10. It is the WS who most often files for divorce. Interestingly, Dr. Pittman says there is almost always a point when the WS makes an attempt to return to the BS, even after the divorce occurs, (although you may not recognize the attempt for what it is, and it may come as a result of the WS’s desire to assure themselves of your continued love).

11. Don’t be surprised if your WS claims all sorts of marital problems that you had no idea existed. The creation and/or gross exaggeration of marital problems is part of the process of transferring guilt of the affair to you or the marriage. It is an attempt by the WS to rationalize what cannot be excused. Does the WS believe what he/she says about the marriage? The power of self-deception is often proportional to the guilt one would be forced to endure without it; WSs often believe their own lies and some never come to grips with the truth.

12. If your WS has had multiple romantic affairs, it may be that they are in love with the idea of being in love. These people are very often not suitable for marriage and will bounce from relationship to relationship until their dying day. You may want to bail out of this marriage or be prepared to spend a lot of money on a psychiatrist.

13. Although you may be desirous of saving your marriage, it is best to prepare for the worst. Seek legal advice about your possible divorce and custody issues. Do whatever is necessary to prevent the WS from destroying your financial resources along with your marriage.

For those of you looking for quick and easy solutions, there are none. Dr. Harley recommends exposure (telling any friends, family, or co-workers who might be able to influence the WS to stop the affair) as a method of accelerating the demise of an affair, but generally speaking, there are three possible outcomes even if you follow Dr. Harley’s Plan A/B:

A. The affair continues, a divorce ensues, and the affairees live together happily ever after. (This is very rare.)

B. The affair continues for a time after discovery, the affairees eventually break up, but either the WS or BS or both refuse to reconcile. (The probability of this occurring seems to be directly proportional to the length of the affair.)

C. The affair continues for a time after discovery, the affairees eventually break up, the WS and BS reconcile. (The probability of this occurring seems to be inversely proportional to the length of the affair.)

I hope this helps some of you who arrive daily on this forum. There are a lot of good folks here offering fine advice coming from first-hand experience.

Remember that you are not alone.

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Wow! I was finally able to again login here. Haven't been here in ages.

Just wanted to say 'hi' to all my old MB friends, and also wanted to give encouragement to all here. Your marriage can be saved! If mine could be resurrected, anyone's can!

I came here about three years ago AFTER I was divorced. I was the former WS, and my husband had filed for divorce. The affair had lasted about four years, and for two of those years I was living with my husband. All told, my DH and I lived apart for 3 1/2 years, of which 1.5 years were spent legally divorced.

When I ended the dreadful A I found MB. It was incredible how my story was like so many others' here. What a mess I'd made of my life, and of my family's life.

After posting here for FIFTEEN months and getting much encouragment and advice from JL, Pepperband, Redhat, Litchfield, and so many others my DH finally agreed to a 'date'. The man hadn't spoken with me in years on any sort of level beyond 'hello'. It was so sad, but I took full responsibility.

That was almost two years ago this upcoming December. Our first dates were very strained and not romantic at all. Let's just say it wasn't like in the movies.

Very shortly after our first 'dates' we remarried. It all happened within about three weeks. That was just about two years ago, and soon we'll be celebrating the 24th anniversary of our first marriage.

Never, ever, give up hope UNLESS your ex has remarried. Believe me, my DH was very withdrawn and detached from me for YEARS. We don't talk much at all about our time apart. It's behind us, and we certainly don't dwell on it. It all seems like a bad nightmare, but we did learn from it.

JL always told me "patience and time". He was right.

All is going very well. Our three children are elated we're together again.

Hang in there, even if it seems hopeless!

Hopeful_person

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It's almost 3 years since my D-DAY and what a D-DAY it was. Driving down the hotel strip in my town on New Years Eve, I see my H's car and the OW's car parked..seems like the only cars in the parking lot...the desk person MIRACULOUSLY tells me his room number..I knock on the door and he answers in his boxers,saying "I'M ENDING IT RIGHT NOW"...OH WHAT A NIGHT!...I proceed to my car and call everyone I can think of..his best friends... OW calls me on my cellphone and asks me: "Who are you the GD FBI?"(to give you a flavor of her)-guess I ruined her night of fun because my H left her there in the hotel room and so the PROCESS begins....PLAN A..FALSE RECOVERIES...PLAN B...REAL RECOVERY for 2 Years.... This may be more information than you need to know...

I wanted to share this morning because I am coming to a place of putting a lot of this behind me. It is painful to recall those events now (my body began to shake as I typed it) and I really don't have to play that out again much anymore.

My H is genuinely dear to me now. I have had the sweetest and most wonderful weekend with him. He has definitely chosen me. He has filled my life with such pleasant memories over the past two years that, even if something else happens, I feel blessed for having had this special time with him.

In the midst of this weekend, I've been lurking and reading about your trials. These are thoughts that I want to share with you before I get to the point of FORGETTING THE TRAUMAS THAT I EXPERIENCED... My FWH is wiping the pain away...Most importantly, I am becoming STRONG enough in my PERSONAL RECOVERY to not allow those past traumas and memories to intrude and rob me of EXPERIENCING TRUE JOY in my life.

DO NOT GIVE UP HOPE I held on to HOPE AND FAITH for dear life. This was the main thing that kept me going. If not hope for your marriage, maintain hope and faith in your spirit, in your soul, for your own well-being. I turned to MY GOD, to MY PERSONAL SAVIOUR in the midnight hours and constantly and regularly received PERSONAL TOUCHES and MESSAGES from the HOLY SPIRIT. Even if you do not share my religious beliefs, do whatever it takes to remain focused on the LIGHT and not the DARK....DO NOT LET ANYONE ROB YOU OF YOUR HOPE AND FAITH...that is the GOAL OF THE ENEMY....

VIEW THIS AS A SERIES OF BATTLES See yourself as a soldier in a war..a fight for yourself..a fight for your marriage..a fight against the forces of evil...Given your hope and faith (discussed above), BELIEVE that you will be victorious and conquer the ENEMY..ONE BATTLE AT A TIME....

VIEW YOUR WS AS BEING DRUG-ADDICTED My FWH was just as bad, lost,desperate, craved, nasty, smelly as any meth or cocaine addict...This is not a contest that anyone wants to win. But, I bet that I can top any story that the WSes are discussing on the boards lately... At some point in all of this, my FWH was emotionally abusive, at times physically abusive, abandoned me, abandoned his children...all of the above and worse than I can possibly believe at this point...he seemed POSSESSED and EVIL....A MONSTER, at times.. Now I look at him after FULL WITHDRAWAL and his OWN INSISTENCE on USING EXTREME PRECAUTIONS and I can't BELIEVE WHAT I SEE... He is truly the SWEETEST, KINDEST PERSON to me.. For two full years, I have waited for that MONSTER to return.. Early on, their were daily glimpses but as each day goes by he comes closer and closer to being his former self or even better....HE HAS DEFINITELY CHANGED...

LEARN STRATEGIES TO INSULATE YOURSELF FROM THE MONSTER WHO IS NOT REALLY YOUR SPOUSE It's like I learned to enclose myself in a cocoon that he could not penetrate. I would come on here to vent. I would retreat to the bathroom. I would go on LONG DRIVES in my car. It was important not to be swept up into HIS EVILNESS..INTO HIS CRAZY WORLD...That would have legitimized his craziness.. Of course, the eventual PLAN B is perfect sanctuary....

CONTINUE TO EXPOSE... This so freeing..Tell everybody you know. You are in the RIGHT. He is in the WRONG. This is an essential battle strategy. This will get back to one of them and they will continually BE SHAMED. Don't believe that others are supportive of what they are doing...I had fantasies of fencing them in her house so they wouldn't want to come out. This turned out to be truer than I believed at the time. They took back roads and snuck around town while I took the main roads and let everybody know what my H was doing...

A few more thoughts....

LET YOUR WAYWARD SPOUSE GO....FOCUS ON YOURSELF...I really got this after reading LOVE MUST BE TOUGH by DOBSON although this was pounded into me by others...I came to accept that there was no amount of crying, pleading, explaining, questioning or PLAN Aing that I could do to make my H stop his A..He had to eventually choose to break up with her on his own...He had to be ready...

HE HAD TO HIT HIS BOTTOM This was the reason for the false recoveries..He came back before he was ready..He came back before he had scraped the very bottom of the barrel..He had to come face to face with all that he was losing..He had to come face to face with who the OW REALLY WAS... This is what can happen in PLAN B...

Another one of my thoughts:

When you fail or make a mistake, get right back up on the horse...get back into the battle....




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Some of the most painful posts to read here ....is the confusion and turmoil of betrayed spouses....

those post D-day days weeks and sadly months in which so many things are left unanswered, unaddressed and emtpy...

be still.....

In our turmoil and chaos and the gnawing need to fix and address.....bs bring into their hearts more pain and crisis....

be still...

There was once a saying I read somewhere that went something like to really ever understand someone else we must crawl inside of them and feel the gentle beat of their heart....

easier probably for a BS to move a mountain than to grasp and work from that realm....

but be still...
each moment of stillness you can buy grab or gobble is a moment in which you are free from the pain and free from the fear..

fear of doing the wrong thing
fear of saying the wrong thing...

the goal is not marriage rebuilding at any cost...
the goal is guiding yourself to a place of stillness...no matter the outcome....

the anatomy of a WS is that they changed and molded their own thought processes so that they could engage in a affair....

they did this....
they did this....over time and in a way in which they can barely see the reality of this...but they did do it...

be still

it takes time.....

too many posts are from BS with unrealistic EXPECTATIONS which will harm you...

it is unrealistic to think that the thought processes needed to engage in such vile actions....vanishes over night

working through affair issues takes time...gobs and gobs of it...
and if you find yourself standing in a place of demanding change and specified responses, introspection, apologies, and instant change...

be still

for you are causing more grief that you need to burdon....

they did this...and they must undo this...

will they?
the truth is we don't know..
but to ever be a whole person again they darn well better...otherwise they carry their chaos on and on..and in the end no BS needs to burdon that.....

WS, though hard to see when they have used you as a weapon are very very damaged inside.....

they can not face that damage...and since that damage is YOU the BS...they often can not face you..

so they continue to waffle and wallow in the path that brought them to this place...

the way of rationalizing and justifying downright no two ways about it dispicable behavior acts....

force them to the face and process at once..
they will withdrawal
they will deny
they will retaliate

or even worse they will self destruct themselves....

be still....

don't force responses and actions and answers...be still and know that their non-responses , non actions and non answers ARE their answers....and you can hold them accountable to that

be still
and then make your moves....

ARK^^

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Plan A will not work for you if you go in to it with

ANY EXPECTATIONS

that you
will
should
could

get YOUR own EN's met....

that's is the formula for failure...

set up to fail by the BS....

I have said it a hundred times...

PLAN A must have a time frame for ending BEFORE it begins....

so that the person entering it...realizes that they will be giving and doing things that go against...

societies advice...drop em dump em slam em....

friends and family who love you and CAN NOT stand to see you hurt.....

and even your gut instincts....IT'S NOT FAIR... that I the BS do this when the WS doessn't deserve it...

again and again and again...

the deep seeded rationalization it takes for a person to engage in an affair...

is the complete compartimentalization of reality
and has been building in their thought long before the affair 'officially began"

you must
must
must...

be willing to accept that the BS has been mentally villified to
excuse
justify
and
rationalize affair actions.......

PLAN A is allll about and in my opinion....

opening up communication
in tiny tiny avenues

always giving the WS exactly what they don't EXPECT

this is NOT door matt behavior....but like PEP once BRILLIANTLY concluded...

a WELCOME HOME MATT
love that cerebral picture....

you know what exactly feeds in to the WS justification...

behaving in a way that gives them the weapon to aim at you...

PLAN A is not grandiose fix it now
PLAN A is not about addressing deep marital issues....
that is also set up to fail as the WS is in total
justification mode....

PLAN A is NOT long drawn out talks that go way in to the night.....

When you pick your end date...the FIRST step in plan A....

then you build a road map...of all the things you can do that get the WS attention...

small verbal interchanges
small gestures....

WS spouses are drawn to say that even when the affair relationship is failing.....
that there is too much damage done already to fix the marriage....

there is great fear in facing their actions.....
and forcing them to do so when they are in this mode is also setting up for failure...

push for the apologies...and woe to you who get it without true meaning because you will not have true remorse...

but remorse that will again become the weapon....

PLAN A is full of hope and NOT about fixing things in the marriage in that the WS needs to address...

THAT is what recovery is for...

PLAN A is never ever about getting a committment from the WS to do something....

again hand the weapon

you will hear...

you made me
you forced me
you controlled me....

PLAN A is about setting your boundaries....that are full of actions for the BS and NONE for the WS

in a good plan A you can say...

I didn't make you choose anything...
I just refuse to be part of a triangle...period...
you my dear WS will make your own choice as well....
and then add....
with a warm smile...
remember my love....
doing nothing is a choice as well......

People that do plan A well find great freedom and creativity in the doing and giving and meeting of ENs...

people that expect their needs to be met...
flounder and get crushed....

please please please use the board here to ground yourself in plan A....
digging deep for its short term actions........of great sacrifice.......knowing the payoff is down the line.....

NOT while in plan A....
never in plan A....

I could go on and on and on about this......

If you don't understand this...use this board....

ARK

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This touches on some of the issues that are currently affecting some of our community.
(Decided to post here on Gen. as well, since many never leave one forum or another).

Getting Help: Rebuilding Trust After Infidelity

Why saying "I'm Sorry" is NOT Enough.

Your spouse is devastated to learn that you have been unfaithful, but you are determined to save your marriage. You’ve apologized profusely.
You take full responsibility for your actions.
You promise that it will never happen again.
And your spouse forgives you. ( Or at least begins too).

These steps, while necessary, Are Not Enough .
Many couples make the mistake of believing that after the initial shock, hurt and anger over an affair has worn off, they can simply “pick up the pieces” and get on with their lives.
Only later do they discover that lingering feelings of betrayal and mistrust slowly - but surely - destroy their relationship.

If you sincerely want to regain the trust and intimacy that you and your spouse once had, you must follow certain steps.
They are not always easy, and they don’t guarantee that your marriage will be saved.
But these steps can go a long way in healing the hurt the affair has caused, and putting your relationship on the right path.

1). Be completely honest with your spouse from now on.

You must be truthful and open about anything your spouse has a reasonable right to know.
This includes your work schedule, your activities with friends, your spending habits, and so on.
Of course, if you had followed this step all along, the affair probably would not have occurred.

You might be tempted to think that telling a “white lie” now and then is harmless, especially if it has nothing to do with being unfaithful.
But your spouse is more likely Now to detect Any Signs of deception or evasiveness on your part.

And When you get caught in a lie, No Matter How Trivial , your spouse will wonder What Else you may be lying about.

2 . Fully Answer "whatever" questions your spouse has about the affair.

Yes, this will be uncomfortable and embarrassing.
It’s normal for you to want to put the affair in the past and “move on.”

Besides, you think, your spouse is already hurt and angry. Wouldn’t learning all the details make those feelings even worse?

Perhaps.
But unanswered questions and doubts can linger on for years, making it very difficult for your spouse to truly forgive you and trust you again.

And it is Far Better that your spouse get the information From YOU , rather than hear it from someone else or Find out some other way.

3 . Make Amends to your spouse.

This Crucial Step is Overlooked far too often .
Maybe you think that merely saying “I’m sorry” is sufficient.

Or you believe that nothing, really , can make up for the hurt you have caused.

But that is NO Reason Not To Try.
The best way to make amends is simply to ask your spouse what you can to make it up to him or her. Ideally, it will be something that reaffirms your love and brings the two of you closer together.
Perhaps it will something that your spouse has always wanted from you - being a better listener, for example - but that you somehow failed to provide.

The Purpose of making Amends Is NOT to Punish you for your misdeeds.
However, if making amends requires extra effort or sacrifice on your part, this may cause you to think twice before being unfaithful again.

4 . End all contact with your ex-lover.

You might protest that this step is unreasonable, especially if you see your ex-lover at work or some other place where running into each other is unavoidable.

However, the temptation to resume the affair may prove too strong, no matter how well-intentioned you are. Furthermore, your spouse will NEVER be Comfortable knowing that your ex is still in the picture.

So, do Whatever it Takes to avoid that person, even if that means Changing your job or Moving to a new area.

Recovering from an affair takes commitment and effort by both spouses.
Following these steps will help make that recovery more lasting and meaningful.

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This board is full of people faced with the complete and utter devestation of their family and of the very core of their being.

They are being forced to make decisions while under extreme duress such as:

Do I go after the throat of the person I love more than life in court?

Do I wrench my children away from the parent they love so much in order to ensure that they are not subject to scumbag OM or OW?

Do I fight for custody, knowing my children will not understand why I must do this?

Is it in their best interest to fight for full custody? Will I hurt them worse?

Do I swallow my pride and take back the WS who ripped out our hearts and laughed the whole time, so my children are not subjected to what I am about to subject them to?

Do I financially ruin this person I loved so much and bore/fathered my children, to protect us?

Do I force myself to stop loving this person and move on with my life, knowing that they are destroying themselves and once I do I won't turn back.

Can you imagine having to make those kinds of decisions? Those going through your already over-loaded mind that is not quite functioning properly because you haven't slept or ate in weeks?

And then once the WS has a change of heart, the BS must stuff it all and heal the best way he can while

NEVER offending in anyway the WS, or the OM/OP?

You read this stuff all day long?

I am asking you, WHAT DIFFERENCE does it make what we say to an active WS? WHO GIVES A SH*T? If they are close to repentence, believe me they will be on their knees in shame, not stirring the pot.

If they come here while they are active and expect to get treated with respect, then they have more problems going on then just the fog.

I will not treat an ACTIVE WS the way I will treat others.

And if I did, how would that help to change their mindset?

If they get hit with both barrels here, it is just all that much sooner that the fog lifts.

It is just all that much easier that the BS has it during his Plan A.

The BS can't say what we can.

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Eph,

What is your plan? What is it you are doing to move this all forward?

I read the exchange with your wife. Typical!! Same stuff my wife said...over and over! It is exchanges such as these that forced me into Plan B!

You see, there is only ONE reason why she said the things she said. It is because she NEEDS you to create conflict. There is something going on with her, in her life, that you dont know right now. Maybe it is the OM pressuring her. Maybe it is her pressuring the OM to meet needs he cant/wont. But something isnt right there!!

How do I know? Well, first...I have been there. And now that my wife and I have talked, I know that things werent right during the times she engaged me as your wife has here. The second reason I know is this fact: people dont argue about and dont get angry about things that they dont care about!! If you wife was indeed happy and accepting of where things are going, then she wouldnt have even engaged you. Instead, all of her responses to you would have been "whatever."

Jim was right above. She drew you into conflict, so she could feel angry at you, so she could say her justifications and try to make HERSELF believe them. Then, she could try to feel justified as she headed back to the life she is trying to build.

But the funny thing is...deep down, she knows it is a lie. She knows she is living a lie. So, she wants you to help her change the lie...so that maybe it will work. Statements such as "mom and dad being happy and co-parenting together in divorce" is a testimony to this. She wants what cant happen...and she knows it! So, she wants YOUR help!

I forsee it getting harder for you to Plan A from here on out. I forsee that you will have a hard time not educating her. And the more that you have a hard time, the harder she will push!

Your response to her diatribe should have been this..."Honey, we both know what has really gone on here. We both know that we love each other. I do not wish to engage in a conversation such as this. I have to go now. When you are ready to talk about building a marriage that we both deserve, then I am here."

And then...shut up! Dont answer her responses! Dont say "oh, and one last thing..." Just be quiet.

As I said, I dont think you can do much more with your Plan A. I agree with Mr. W. If I were you, I would get another session with Steve Harley just to confirm this analysis.

If I were you, I would get my Plan B written out. Get it together and planned out. Get to understand what goes on in Plan B. Get the avenues of co-parenting decided, so you two do not have to interact more than is necessary. Plan out what you wil do with your time and how you will begin to move your life forward.

Plan B is a door. It is a door out of the mess...and away from the adultery and pain. It is a door into a new life. One that the BS controls. Now, going thru that Plan B door may mean that your marriage is over. Or, as in my case, it may mean that your wife will meet you on the other side of that door. But that door forever changes the dynamic of your life.

As I said, I think you have done a pretty good Plan A. I think she has seen it. I KNOW she has seen it. In her statements, she repeatedly refers to your changes. Sure, she calls them "lies." She has to call them lies, because if she were to accept them as truth, then she would also have to re-evaluate her position and what she is doing. And she isnt ready to do that yet. Instead, she sees your changes...but calls them lies.

So, since she has seen them...in a Plan B environment, she can no longer tell herself that they are lies. She just cant. In the meantime, the OM is woefully lacking in the ability to meet the needs you were meeting. Your wife will begin to make selfish demands of him...and he wont be able to fulfill them. And there will be strife. In the meantime, Eph is out of the middle of that. He is off the rollercoaster. He is safe and sound, sipping a tall one. And working on improving his life, and the life of his kids. He is no longer in the drama.

And in Plan B, your wife has to confront her lies to herself. She has to confront why she has this feeling to call you...to get you to meet some of the needs she is no longer getting met. At first, she will just try to get angry and force you out of your Plan B. But when that doesnt work, she will try to sweet talk you out of it. And when that doesnt work, then realization is finally available to her.


And then she walks in with tears of repentence. Then she sees you for who you are.

Eph, that exchange with your wife tells me that it is about time to make the jump. To shut down things with her and begin healing your wounds.

Please consider this. We can help you get the plan together. We can help you understand the possible reactions of your wife.

Please think on this.

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All WS suffer from the same ailment: liarrhea

Main Entry: li·ar·rhea

Function: noun
1 : abnormally frequent verbal evacuations of untruths

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Great compilation. Good for anyone to read through, no matter where they are.

Liarrhea.... LMAO!


Do not ask the Lord to guide your footsteps if you are not willing to move your feet.
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Pep,

I think I read that the ailment is related to chronic cranial rectumitus.

I hear that the remedy for the disease may be as simple as removing their head from their a$$.

Of course a lot of research will be required before the FDA will approve the surgical techniques required for such a delicate operation.

I don't see the insurance industry getting on board any time soon, they never support experimental treatments.

I'm trying to remember the technique. It has something to do with a heavy right foot in a steel-toed work boot...

Something about dimensioned lumber was in there as I recall...

Mark

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I think this deserves its own thread since it seems to be a fairly common problem….for MEN. About once a month a newcomer will show up here who has left his own home at the behest of a wayward wife in an active affair. She asks him to leave so she can “have space” and “think about the marriage.” The poor devastated soul usually believes that appeasing her will save his marriage. It is the EXACT OPPOSITE. She is asking him to move out so she can carry on her affair without his interference.

Moving out only serves to ENABLE the affair at the expense of his own marriage and children’s security. The WW is now free to carry on her affair from the safety and comfort of her own home. It is not uncommon for her to actually INVITE the OM into the home and introduce him to the children.

She often has fantasies of replacing you with the OM. Of course, the BS is still paying the mortgage so he is, in effect, not only enabling the affair but FINANCING it. Otherwise known as the ContributeToYourOwnDemise Program.

Some reasons why moving out is dangerous:

1. It enables the affair
2. It is viewed as abandonment by many courts
3. Separation INCREASES the risk of divorce and impedes chances of recovery [you can’t recover if you aren’t there!]
4. Many men – on this very forum – have had to get COURT ORDERS just to get back into their own homes
5. Children are exposed to affair partner, which is morally confusing and increases the odds they will be sexually molested/abuse
6. It is DEVASTATING to children! Your children need you now more than ever. You are ALL THEY HAVE since their mother’s brain has been abducted by aliens.

In short, moving out is always a huge mistake unless it is to effect Plan B.

I am always baffled about why men will do this, because a woman would never consider sacrificing her own home and her children because her husband was in an affair and wanted some “space.” The only way I would leave is if my husband’s pistol was BIGGER than mine! Even at that, I am a better shot than him, so that might not even do it. It might take a SWAT TEAM!

If your wayward wife asks you to move out so she can “have space,” suggest she either go in the bathroom and shut the door or be a gentleman and clean out a corner in your garage for her. But, whatever you do, DON’T LEAVE YOUR HOME, GUYS!!

If you have fallen for this manipulation tactic and left your home, don’t despair. The mistake is usually easily corrected by packing your bag and GOING HOME NOW. No warning, no nothing. Just get in the car and go home and move right back into your OWN BED. When you walk in simply say “HI HONEY, I AM HOME!!” and give her a smile and a peck on the cheek. If she objects tell her you live there and intend to stay. SMILE.

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Ive read so many posts detailing how hard it is to recover. I myself feel the same. My M is so much better than it ever was, my H tries very hard and I have so much to be thankful for.

Ive asked myself so many times why I would still be struggling so badly.

Yesterday, I had my first session w Steve Harley. He explained it to me this way

"As long as you believe that your H had an affair because his emotional needs were not being met (as a *primary* reason) you will be meeting his emotional needs out of fear, there will always be a gun held to your head. Your H had an affair because he failed to protect HIMSELF from his own vulnerabilities, period. He is accountable and responsible for all"

He then went on to explain that perhaps my H has been telling me that "it wont happen again, that I am safe, etc..." BUT that it will likely have little reassuring effect because he is saying things that I believed were *always true*.

He said that until my H proves to me that HE gets it, that HE takes responsibility fully for what happened ( the A, not the downslide of our marriage) that you cannot heal.

I wonder how many of us BS that are struggling have spouses that have come to us and said "I did this to you. I failed us. I failed to protect the safety of our M. I will keep us safe from now on, you no longer have to be the gatekeeper." I wonder if they did, how many of us would still be struggling?

Steve likens this emotional injury to a horrific car crash. If we had visible physical wounds that mirrored the emotional trauma we have sustained there would be a plan to heal. First, you do A. then B. then C. and so on.
If our spouses are unable to do these things, we will not heal properly and at best, will limp along for the rest of our time here on Earth.

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Well, I sure appreciate you adding my post to your list, but, IMO, my best post of all time was when I told professional adultress, SARIE/BlessedTime/Celt/IWRA, that her affair was about as "beautiful" as 2 pigs rutting in the PIG PEN, after she had extolled the virtues of her pretty affair by comparing it to Bridges of Madison County. **snort** <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

She went CRAZY! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Dat was my bestest post, Pep! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Ive read so many posts detailing how hard it is to recover. I myself feel the same. My M is so much better than it ever was, my H tries very hard and I have so much to be thankful for.

Ive asked myself so many times why I would still be struggling so badly.

Yesterday, I had my first session w Steve Harley. He explained it to me this way

"As long as you believe that your H had an affair because his emotional needs were not being met (as a *primary* reason) you will be meting his emotional needs out of fear, there will always be a gun held to your head. Your H had an affair because he failed to protect HIMSELF from his own vulnerabilities, period. He is accountable and responsible for all"

He then went on to explain that perhaps my H has been telling me that "it wont happen again, that I am safe, etc..." BUT that it will likely have little reassuring effect because he is saying things that I believed were *always true*.

He said that until my H proves to me that HE gets it, that HE takes responsibility fully for what happened ( the A, not the downslide of our marriage) that you cannot heal.

I wonder how many of us BS that are struggling have spouses that have come to us and said "I did this to you. I failed us. I failed to protect the safety of our M. I will keep us safe from now on, you no longer have to be the gatekeeper." I wonder if they did, how many of us would still be struggling?

Steve likens this emotional injury to a horrific car crash. If we had visible physical wounds that mirrored the emotional trauma we have sustained there would be a plan to heal. First, you do A. then B. then C. and so on.
If our spouses are unable to do these things, we will not heal properly and at best, will limp along for the rest of our time here on Earth.


I'm sorry that I don't know who posted this and on what thread it is posted.

Pep, I ALWAYS come here to read your NOTABLE POSTS...so I'm suggesting that you refer us back to the thread so we can comment THERE...

I think this is SOOO right on target and HELPFUL...

There's an IMPORTANT DISTINCTION between the BS taking RESPONSIBILITY for the A vs. mistakes in the MARRIAGE...

PLAN A involves meeting ENs that made the MARRIAGE vulnerable to the A..and SHOULD DEFINITELY not be WRONGLY CONSTRUED as the BS taking responsibility for causing THE AFFAIR...

And the part about the FWS being the GATEKEEPER...my H definitely does this...

And FOOLISH, SILLY ME, I've been LAMENTING this..IT HAS BUGGED ME..that he is seems so INSISTENT about the ROUTES he takes and when we/I go places..and about moving us out of town..yes, it has seemed like he is PROTECTING ME..but it is a CONSTANT REMINDER to me of the A...I have perhaps wrongly wanted to move into my own DENIAL about it...most of the time now I don't think about it AT ALL unless HE brings up something like.."You don't need to go to that PO at that time of day"..YUCK..THAT'S WHY WE'RE MAKING STEPS TO MOVE AWAY FROM THIS PLACE..HALLELUJAH...

HAPPY SUNDAY....


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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Well, I sure appreciate you adding my post to your list, but, IMO, my best post of all time was when I told professional adultress, SARIE/BlessedTime/Celt/IWRA, that her affair was about as "beautiful" as 2 pigs rutting in the PIG PEN, after she had extolled the virtues of her pretty affair by comparing it to Bridges of Madison County. **snort** <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

She went CRAZY! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Dat was my bestest post, Pep! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

it was but a short trip

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I'm sorry that I don't know who posted this and on what thread it is posted.

Pep, I ALWAYS come here to read your NOTABLE POSTS...so I'm suggesting that you refer us back to the thread so we can comment THERE...

mean Mimi, making Pep work HARDER when Pep is just trying to be lazy ....

HERE [color:"red"] <~~~ for the meanie Mimi [/color]

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She went CRAZY! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Dat was my bestest post, Pep! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

it was but a short trip


bwahahahaaaaa <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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mean Mimi, making Pep work HARDER when Pep is just trying to be lazy ....


No wonder I hadn't read it..

I NEVER go over to the RECOVERY BOARD..

I try to STAY in MY PLACE...

[color:"red"] meanie Mimi [/color] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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