Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 15 of 15 1 2 13 14 15
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,830
F
Member
Offline
Member
F
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,830
Very good job, Eph! I think you're beginning to get the hang of this a little. In your HEART you may think and feel the big, longer response, but in Plan B you learn to react as if she were the mailman.

Your shortened version is very good!! Factual. Brief. Business-like. EXCELLENT JOB!

(The little birdie I pushed out of the nest is learning to fly! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" /> )

Your mama bee,



CJ

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,306
E
Eph525 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
E
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,306
WW sent me another TM at about 7:30 regarding talking to the kids. We were eating, then did some shopping afterwards.

Still disrespecting my boundaries.

I dialed her number about 9:30 and the kids talked for about 15 mins.

CJ - well I knocked my head on a few branches on the the way down but I guess I am getting the hang of it. I just spread my wings and fly and let the wind (God and you guys here) carry me.


Divorced on 3/25/2008 but I have primary legal and physical custody of my 2 kids.

Plan A Thread
Plan B Thread
Ephesians 5:25 - Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 27,069
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 27,069
Oddly enough, people who don't respect boundaries are very surprised when boundaries are enforced. It takes some time for them to realize that the rules have changed. But your wife is a big girl, and she will figure it out. You are doing well.

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,306
E
Eph525 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
E
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,306
thanks, believer. I've come a long way and still have a ways to go. You've been with me from the beginning and I thank you for that.


Divorced on 3/25/2008 but I have primary legal and physical custody of my 2 kids.

Plan A Thread
Plan B Thread
Ephesians 5:25 - Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 27,069
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 27,069
You're doing fine. You are a good man, a good husband, and a good father. I still have hope for your marriage. But if you end up divorced, you will do just fine.

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,025
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,025
Quote
Why not follow princessmeggy's solution, and have WW call the kids at 8PM nightly, or whatever days she wants to speak to them. If they refuse, so be it. PWC called DS every night that he was not with him at 8PM. If DS wanted to talk, he did, if DS didn't want to talk, the phone would go to voicemail. The kids should not be responsible for the initial contact; that is asking too much of them.

If she keeps using this phone call as an excuse to Text message, email and call you just address the issue concisesly with the above requirement. She can call the kids on your cell phone or home phone, whatever, every night that they are with you between the time of 8:30 and 8:45 pm. Other than that and from then forward...you don't have to answer or respond to any of her text messages at all. You have been clear and concise. Phone rings...you tell kids it's their mother calling and hand them the ringing phone. If they refuse to answer document the same (but docuument also that you tried and sometimes actually made them talk to her so you can defend your actions with the court and GAL and when the inevitable threatening email comes CJ can defend you). Of course, it is also advisable for you to have them call her every once in awhile on your own for good credit but her SCHEDULED call is at the set time. Take it or leave it....no other discussion necessary.

You may think all this adjusting of your boundaries from the Plan B letter is troublesome. It's not really. Every battle plan requires some minor adjustments. On the upside, you can demonstrate to the GAL your flexibility, adaptability and concern for the kids over your interests in focusing on YOUR boundaries (the court could care less about YOUR boundaries). Played right...it's a winning issue for you AND you will get peace, eventually AND defeat their arguments you are unreasonable. I'm thinking all Plan B'ing BH's with custody issues should utilize a flexible and adapting Plan B...whereby the flicker out for a week or two instead of going dark in one dramatic swipe. They need to anticipate this and realize the strategies within it. From what I've read...it shouldn't be too long before she goes into the typical WS, "so you wanna go dark...well, I'll just act happy about it, go dark myself and show you". Then...it's agreed to silience and she can't claim otherwise in court.


As far as school...discuss it with your attorney and even the GAL. It's August now...time to enroll them. You wouldn't be a good primary custodial parent if you didn't. I almost think the discussion you did have with WW could be considered or "painted" a bit to have been more along the lines of you telling WW what you are doing rather than seeking her consent and approval. Why would you NEED to do that when you are the primary parent. Of course you discussed it with her but the decision was already made.

Mr. Wondering


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,712
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,712
Most phone services allow for you to add a second line with a distinctive ring. I had Verizon for the home line, and I added a second line for just a few more dollars a month. And it was worth it. When the regular home number rang, it was different from the new, kids' line. The kids' line would ring twice, where the traditional line only once.

I sat the kids down and told them when they hear that ring, it is either their mother or their grandparents calling. And unless they are in bed, or otherwise engaged, they must answer it. I did not leave it up to them to decide if they wanted to talk to their mother or not. She is their mother, and if she wants to or needs to talk to the kids, then it is not for them to say "no" or to question.

Now, if it is 10:30pm and the kids are in bed, then I would not allow the line to be answered (I actually turned the ringer down). That way, she could just go to voicemail.

And the judge liked this. I had healthy boundaries, but also made sure that their mother had every evenue available to her to keep in touch with our children. And the beauty of it was...I never had to talk to her!!! I would hear the distinctive ring, see the kids were answering the phone...and conveniently excuse myself to the Throne Room (e.g. bathroom) so that I could not be tricked into getting on the line. The kids would talk to her, and then if she told them that she wanted to talk to me...they would just TRUTHFULLY tell her "Mom, Dad's in the bathroom."

So, if I were you, I would seriously consider having that second line. It would be a number no one would know, except who you give it to. And it would only be for the kids!!

This also helped in documenting the facts of when my wife would call. Once things settled down, even though she demanded to talk to them everyday...after a few weeks, she would go 2-3 days without talking to them. Of course, I documented this. And that, for her, did not go over well in court either!!

Mr. W is correct! Plan B with kids, especially when the BS has custody, is a tricky thing. You have to make these minor adjustments all of the time. The key thing is that you will need to think ahead of your WW. What do I mean?

Well, let's say there is a school recital coming up. You have the kids, but know that your wife will be coming. How you gonna keep her from coming around you or talking to you? Simple! You get there early. Now, most people would say to find an aisle seat, and have the kids next to you so she wont sit next to you. That's okay...but an even better thing to do is to find mutal friends who are there. Have them sit in the aisle. Then you sit next to them, with the kids on the other side of you. If you can, make sure there are more people on the other side of the kids, so that she will have to sit in another row (also try to make sure she cant sit right behind you or in front of you. So, it might be good if you are sitting in the first or last row.

Then, once the event is over, you strike up a conversation with your friends while the kids hug Mom goodbye. Once you are ready to leave, look for the opportunity where your wife is no longer talking to the kids or is talking to someone else, and wisk the kids out the door (which is why the back row is preferable!!) and to the car. If during the event, your wife starts asking the kids "is Dad taking you out for ice cream afterwards," make sure you have not made any promises to the kids that they would relay to Mom. You dont want them lying or covering up things to her. So, dont tell them. Once you get to the car, you can then SURPRISE them by saying "hey...we're going out for ice cream on the way home."

Do you see the depth of planning here, just for a simple event like this? Sure, it isnt easy. But it is simple. And you are going to have to do this in almost everything that might involve your wife. Make sure you try to think thru all contingencies. If your wife does get to you and tries to talk to you, what will you say? What will you do? In that case, I handled it this way...I said nothing. I just sort of stared at the ground until she left me alone. Your mileage may vary...so make adjustments as needed.

You are doing fine. And I have no doubt that she will cause some failures in your Plan B. With kids involved, it is hard to stay entirely dark. But, if she does break thru, just shut things down again and move forward.


Standing in His Presence

FBS (me) (48)
FWW (41)
Married April 1993...
4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B))
Blessed by God more than I deserve
"If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"

Link: The Roles of Husbands and Wives
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,306
E
Eph525 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
E
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,306
I like the ideas about the phone numbers. I use Vonage, and its only a few bucks to add a virtual line that could be for the kids. But, being the techno-geek that I am, I have a nice phone system that enables be to do distinctive rings on the handset. I think I'll go for the cheaper method for the moment as it gives the same result.

I also like the idea of forcing her to call them rather than me having to call her and "make" the kids talk to her. Mortarman, thanks for sharing your experience in handling that.

Regarding school - still working on that. Trying to get DS switched to a school in a different area is proving to be a headache. The principal of the target school had to deny my request right at the get go because we do not already live in the target area (this is where I want to move to once the house sells - it's only about 5 miles from where we live now and no further away from WW). I have to appeal the decision, and the the person to whom I have to appeal to has been trading voice messages with me the last few days.

Vacation is fun - we spent the day at the water park today and we are all exhausted. Tomorrow we hit the aquarium and then it's "on the road again" to head back home. I kinda thought Atlanta would be a trigger for me, but we have been so busy that really this has been the first time I thought about it.

Kids will be tired this weekend, of this I am sure <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Divorced on 3/25/2008 but I have primary legal and physical custody of my 2 kids.

Plan A Thread
Plan B Thread
Ephesians 5:25 - Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,306
E
Eph525 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
E
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,306
BTW - CJ, you getting any of my e-mails? we could call this plan E, but that might confuse people. How about operation "Black Hole" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



Divorced on 3/25/2008 but I have primary legal and physical custody of my 2 kids.

Plan A Thread
Plan B Thread
Ephesians 5:25 - Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,306
E
Eph525 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
E
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,306
Another day, another way for WW to try to break my plan B.

The exchange went off (mostly) without a hitch tonight. I kept the car between myself and WW's house, got the kids out, hugged and kissed them, and sent them on with the backpack containing the notebook, one toy, and the kids medicines. Caught a glimpse of her out of the corner of my eye while making sure she had the kids, then drove off.

It was short lived.

Not 5 mins later my cell rings - it's her - and I let it go to voice mail. I waited til I was calm and listened to it (just in case it was an emergency) - She wants to let me know I forgot some of the kids meds - not a life/death situation that warrants a call. Once again disrespecting my boundaries.

I'll leave 'em in her mailbox tomorrow.

Back to darkness.


Divorced on 3/25/2008 but I have primary legal and physical custody of my 2 kids.

Plan A Thread
Plan B Thread
Ephesians 5:25 - Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,830
F
Member
Offline
Member
F
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,830
Oh this is rather easy. It's a little like training a dog. Make using the email pleasant and fast--make calling and every other attempt slow and painful.

If she calls your cell and leaves a VM do not listen to it. Wait until you can get to someone (exchange person or I) who can listen to it. The wait alone on that could take a whole day!! DO NOT LISTEN!!

Next, do not respond to this voicemail other than to leave the meds in her mailbox or at her front door where she can't miss them.

I think every time that she calls, TMS, etc. she expects you to jump or respond in some way. If you IGNORE HER and/or just bring the meds over but don't call or write--she doesn't get her "fix."

Finally, DOCUMENT!!! Document every single time she has disrespected your request. You can not MAKE HER respect your request, but you can change you. Stop responding to her...at all...ever. Then you can go to court and say, "Your honor, she chose to move out and move on and I have respected her ability to make that choice. However, in asking for the same respect from her to let me move on and develop healthy personal boundaries, she has ignored my request by contacting me 265 times in 100 days!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />" Then you produce the emails, call records, and TM's with disrespectful, spiteful communication.

I know...I know. It's hard to stay silent and sit and do nothing. You are USED to jumping when she says jump. But it is conceivable that once you stop jumping eventually she will tire of trying if you are not responding at all. It's like poking a frog that never jumps! Eventually you move to another frog.

Your mama bee,



CJ

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,306
E
Eph525 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
E
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,306
have to go back and check, but I believe it was Mortarman who suggested answering the phone and asking "Is this an emergency? Otherwise use the e-mail" could be appropriate. But I could see how she might twist that as well.

Can I just pop her on the nose with a rolled up newspaper <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Divorced on 3/25/2008 but I have primary legal and physical custody of my 2 kids.

Plan A Thread
Plan B Thread
Ephesians 5:25 - Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,828
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,828
Good morning, Eph!

Quote
Can I just pop her on the nose with a rolled up newspaper


I would be more than happy to come over and "POP her one" for you!! LOL!!

You are sounding good, my friend! Boy, I don't know which of our sitch's is harder. Your WW continually trying to break Plan B or mine with Drac not even really trying! None of it is fun, is it?

Today finds me ready to get the heck outta Dodge and into MY own house far away. I know things will settle down a lot for me when I am out of this house, so I am looking forward to that.

I can't say enough how blessed you are to have our Mama Bee watching over you! Stick with CJ and you are going to be just fine.

Oh, and document, document, document! You are building a case that will be undeniable!!

Have a great day! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


BS (me)
ExWS -Drac
DD 9
DSS 15
D Day 11/06
Divorced 10/01/07

"You Can't Fix Stupid" - My Mom
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,862
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,862
Hey Eph,

Thinking of you.

Wondering how you are doing...

~ Marsh

Page 15 of 15 1 2 13 14 15

Moderated by  Fordude 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 1,116 guests, and 67 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Mike69, petercgeelan, Zorya, Reyna98, Nofoguy
71,829 Registered Users
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2019, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5