Hey all,<P>I know that many "current" folks here are intrigued by "ol' timers" of which I am one. 2 years ago my marriage was in process of coming apart at the seams. I came here. I was active in posting, then let go when we divorced (12/12/99). I have lurked now & then. Before, I would have posted in the "genral" forum, but it's long gone. The new "other topics" seems to be quite jumbled. I recognize more folks here, so here I post.<P>As with everyone my story is unique, the twists and turns to numerous to track. Rather than recount every event, let me just say that I share in your moments and I hope you can share/empathize with mine.<P>Briefly, my XW had an exit-type affair 2 years prior, she moved out, we divorced. We have 2 kids, joint custody. For the past year, she did her thing, I did mine. Her thing resulted in a pregnacy with a man (Loosley defined. Not the one from affair) who has moved out of state. After his departure, we had begun a dialouge, after not really talking (personally) for around 10 months. This began in August, found out she was pregnant in Sept. <P>We have had serious heart-to-hearts recently, even some intimate moments. We had an emotional Christmas trade-off with the kids, which resulted in my Mom tearfully inviting her (in the moment) to Christmas morning the next day. It showed me the stock from which I come. As you all know infidelity doesn't just hurt the betrayed, but all involved. It was an act of compassion I cannot explain.<P>In a nutshell, my XW has expressed, not only remorse, but understanding (I think) of what she has put me through. However, I can't help questioning her motives; is it ME to the rescue again, only to be trod upon in the future? <P>We're falling in love again, I think... It's the "I think" part that has me scared. To those who recognize me, maybe my query will make more sense. To those who don't, search my posts (esp. in the old forum), otherwise ask away. <P>I'll admit that looking around this board these days I see a lot of negitive, many folks looking for confirmation of their pain. That's certainly warranted, however, I did read the book and it doesn't happen over-night. Maybe you've got to go through all of the steps if reconciliation what you really want...<P>Thanks,<BR>Eric

hi Eric--<P>You know what the nice thing will be? If/when reconciliation, this time you'll have MB every step of the way. <P>Good luck in your journey. And how wonderful should you two work it out.<P>Laura

I'd say the same thing I've said before when I see this: whether it's Retrouvaille, PAIRS, a Gottman seminar in Seattle, get to whatever couples help you can before you try to get back together. <P>If you just "get back together" you're in a minefield without protection, equipment or a map. You might get through on your own, but you've got a much better chance if you see the experts first and find out how to get through.<P>

Eric,<P>Well, sure you remember what my views were.<P>People can change if they want to, very few people do - but it does happen.<P>Your xw was not evil, but her behavior was impulsive, self-destructive and naively stupid - if your xw really hit rockbottom, that she understands the gravity of the destruction her behavior caused, if she wants to change, she can.<P>You can tell the difference, I expect that your family's behavior is well thought out. They were not in love with her, as you were - I'm sure they are more objective in judging her behavior and her motives.<P>My advice? Keep an open heart and open mind. Be there for her, and for your kids, and for that new baby. You could do that even if you weren't planning on reconciling. There's nothing wrong with rescuing that baby, an innocent, and the sibling to your children. That part of your help would never be wrong.<P>You will know, when you know, if your xw has truly changed her behavior, if this is more than hormonal nesting. Give it some time.<P>She needs to understand you need time, to really be able to trust her. She must trust you.<P>Like you said - you come from good stock. And that good stock produced you. <P>Decided to add one more thing - try some faith-based counseling - your xw is desperate for something that is lacking inside. This might be just the thing she needs, to re-evaluate her behavior, understand remorse and forgiveness, the sanctity of marriage, a sense of self-esteem - a moral compass. I doubt she has ever been exposed to the kind and comforting side of having faith.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by honey.west (edited January 02, 2001).]

Eric32<P>First let me start by saying "Happy New Year"!<P>It sounds like this may be the beginning of a great year for you - the year you may be able to save your marriage. Without knowing all your details, my belief is that given the chance, "love can and does conquer all". It sounds like maybe your wife (and to a point you) had to grow-up separately, before you possibly thought about reconciling. At this point you may both in fact be ready. Go slow. Take things easy and see what happens.<P>If you love her, then as tough as it may be, give her another chance. Take the risk. Maybe it is just my nature, but I truly believe in risking it all for love.<P>Seeing a common pattern here with many on this site, when the trouble first happens and when we are going through these painful divorces, one of our first instincts is to ask God for His help - what is that phrase? - "There are no atheists in foxholes".... But what we so often forget is that while God may answer our prayers, it is always in His time - not ours. Maybe, just maybe now His time is your time.<P>Think back to when you were going through the mess of the breakup - isn't this what you wanted (and or prayed for?). Now here it is. Don't get me wrong, don't rush into things and if at all possible seek outside assistance, but it comes down to one thing (IMO), and that is "do you love her?"<P>Your answer to that question will help guide your actions.<P>God Bless,<BR>Mike

Just be careful of the nesting instinct, a father for an unborn child, going back home because its an emergency. <P>You need to both agree to professional counseling, local or with the harleys.<BR>and you need POJA like its a death sentence if you don't follow it.<P>tom

AMEN to the "nesting instinct", WIFTT.<BR>I'd go REAL, REAL slow on this, Eric.<P>Lou

Hello Eric,<P>It has been awhile. I believe that this is good news, however your concerns are valid. There is the "nesting" instinct of your exW. There is the guilt of your exW and there are the dreams of your exW. All of these things are real and need to be addressed.<P>But none of them are show stoppers if you feel comfortable with her and your choices. I would definitely do what others have recommended get some counseling. I would recommend something else as well: honesty. As you know so well, this will be hugh. If you can honestly discuss your concerns and lack of trust with her. And she can honestly discuss why she had an "exit" affair along with everything else, then I suspect you two have a good chance of making this a go.<P>Has she read any of the materials here? Does she understand about "Needs"? If she hasn't you ought to ask her to do so. If she won't read them, then you may still have to wonder where she is emotionally.<P>Sorry, I can't give you any ironclad advice, but this does look promising. Good to see you back with such "good" news.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Eric, first I think what you are experiencing is great and I hope it works out. I say go slow, talk alot, and have God in the relationship!<P>Ted

Thanks all for the replies! You're right about not going this alone. However, my finances don't dictate professional help at this point. I'm in a seasonal business and money's short at the moment. Frankly, I'm in no hurry. After 2 years, anything that happens can mature at it's own pace. Maybe it's a test of sorts. <P>I've grown, she seems to have as well, we have spoken bluntly about what happened. In a weird way, I am proud of her. During our marriage, the lack of openess is something that disturbed me, but chose to look past... go figure! She seems to be able to handle it, my prodding I mean. Not like before, when she might have told me what I wanted to hear. I guess I still don't completely trust her though. Don't get me wrong, I don't intergogate (sp?) her; I am past being obsessed about the details. <P>One thing that leads me to beleive that this is not about rescue, is that she is seriously leaning towards adoption. She brought it up to the "donor" and he was enthusiastic about the idea. I was shocked (please insert sarcasm > here ...) If this may be the case, why come to me for the rescue? <P>We had dinner and a movie... with the kids tonite. Gosh, it was fun! This is something I have been against, I mean with the kids involved, because I don't want them to have false hope so we can get our jollys playing intact family for a little while. Though I think it's important for the kids to see us get along, I think that the touchy-feeley approach that were "buds" sends a harmful message in the long run. To elaborate, I am of the school of thought that if getting divorced comes across as too harmless, the true damage may not be evident enough to cause them to avoid the same fate. Like, "my parents divorced, and it worked out for me... it's not so bad". I think it is bad. I think it sucks ! I want them to take commitments such as marriage seriously and definitivly (again, sp?).<P>I have found I still love her, despite the shame, hurt and damage. I must admit it's not the in-love thing, but I don't know if that's all bad. She really is something else. I truley beleive there's something deep inside of her that she needs to let go of. And yes, God has to be a part of it. I would not and could not be to where I am now without my faith. This tragedy has brought me to Him, and I worry that if I protect her too much, she will not fully realize the potential of His healing and comfort. <P>I'm giving her the book tomorrow, I think she'll be honestly receptive to the concepts. If not, it's just not gonna be our path, but I won't hate her. That'll just be the way it is.<P>Thanks for caring,<BR>Eric

Eric,<P>Don't worry so much about the message this sends to the kids. If you two try and it doesn't work out, the message can be very positive for them. I have forgotten how old they are, but if they are old enough to understand divorce, then they will understand trying to get together very soon.<P>The message your pregnant exW sends may be different whether she keeps the baby or puts it up for adoption. I suspect that she won't end up doing that, if the two of you are doing OK. But it is interesting that she mentioned it. <P>You are right. Go slow and definitely don't make any plans until after the baby is born. When is she due?<P>This is certainly a very interesting turn of events. It may lead to final closure for you or it may reopen the relationship. I hope it is the latter, but in either case you will be helped.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

We just never know how things will turn out, do we?<P>As for the lack of affordable counseling, let me suggest that many organizations, including churches, offer counseling on a sliding-fee scale. Your local United Way agency could probably provide you with a list of their affiliates. Your local YMCA or YWCA might have some recommendations, also. <P>As for placing the baby for adoption, my mother was the director of medical social services at our local public hospital. Only a very small percentage of the patients who talked about placing their babies ever did so.

Thanks again for the replies,<P>This is confusing because of the mixed signals from my own brain/heart and from her. <P>I beleive that she is really going to go thru with the adoption. Yet, I'm worried that she may be looking at adoption because of me. Truth of the matter is that if I was sure about our direction, I'd recommend against the adoption and I'd take on the father role. In a minute. <P>Slow, slow, slow. I agree. However, we have been spending a bunch of time together lately. I like it, it feels natural, but I can't help thinking that when this baby isn't an issue and my friendship is no longer in the forefront (needed like it is now), the same thing will happen again. <P>She seems to have changed so much, I just don't know if it's enough. Maybe I question my own convictions as much as hers. I remained a bachelor til 26, now I'm going on 2 years agian. I'm fine with that. I don't want to just "get back together". Marriage means for the rest of our lives to me. <P>Bottom line is I will go slow, we must get some kind of counseling. I beleive she will opt for the adoption. I don't know that I want her to, if we get back together. But, I don't want to come to the rescue for rescue sake.<P>Eric

I seldom "lurk" here, since I am regular at the Pregnancy/child board. That is for those of us dealing with a child which resulted from affair. You may find some good insight there on men raising children from OM and all the legal/financial risk involved. Just thought I would point you that way.<P>Good luck

Eric,<P>I strongly support adoption as the best course for single mothers, but this case is different.<P>This baby will have siblings - <P>Your children right now, know that love "ends" between husband and wife. That "stuff" happens that can make someone leave...<P>Now, they are going to watch their brother or sister be given away? Think about what that may do to them. It sure gives me a gut feeling of WRONG WRONG WRONG! Your children may think that the parent/child bond can be broken - take it a step further - they are insecure enough, you know how kid's minds work - they may deep down, have a fear that if they do something wrong, they may be given away. I don't think you will be able to convince them otherwise.<P>Discuss this angle with your x. I see that baby as a complete and separate issue from the two of you reconciling.<P>Legal advice - unless your x wants support from the biological father - I would highly recommend that she gets an attorney to draw up papers that he gives up every legal right to that child. That he can never contact that child. You know he would do it now, to get out of any child support payment.<P>If you were to reconcile, and raise that child as your own, what you DON'T want, is some strange pig of a man, 10 years down the road, feeling lonely or unfulfilled, waltzing back in, wanting to see, have visitation, interfere, whatever you want to call it - with that child. <P>This man is obviously a very selfish man, and I would guess have no qualms, coming back to strut over "the seed of his loins." Eliminate any chance for that kind of problem now when it is simple and painless.