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I believe that BA did the right thing in sending the letter, if the Lord led her to do so! Who are we to stand in the way of what God is doing?
If the Lord gave BA this letter and wanted her to send it, who has the right to tell her it was wrong?
Only she and God know here. If it was not God that led her to send it, God will use it for His own good. He can turn our mistakes into something good! We should not question what God wants us to do, but just do it. If she did not send the letter and God wanted her to, she would be delaying His plans.!
It's like people telling me i should get a D, and move on.... oh how i hate that line! I have moved on! I just don't believe in D. and God is the one who has clearly told me to wear my ring, yes even 7 years later! I get very frusterated at people because they are not listening to the Lord, but other people. The Lord does use people to speak to others as well, but we know in our hearts whether or not God wants us to do something or not. And again, if BA shouldn't have sent it, well God will look after it! Trust Him, He knows all things! He has the big picture, we only see a small piece of the puzzle!
Who are we to argue with the Almighty?
God Bless and open your hearts to His Truth!

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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>This marriage is between my WH, me and GOD.
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No. It's between you and your husband. <p>God is there, but the marriage is between mortals.<p>I agree with BrambleRose. Nothing will get resolved until you take yourself off the pedestal and work hard on this marriage.<p>Blessings.
HBC

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Stillwaiting,<p>Thank you for your lovely post and to all the rest! Let's back off here a little "ok"? Alot has come down on me the last 3 or 4 days.<p>Just to set the record straight I am not a sunday morning pew thumper and I have always been "private and quiet about my faith and beliefs". It even shocked me that I felt "guided" to send this letter. I have never sent one like this before or since.<p>Everyone around me including WH family, knows I have stayed true to my WH and been there for him through thick and thin, even the past 3 years and I still am. You all really don't know the full situation. And the things I have found out the last few days, I cannot even talk about or put into words, yet I feel this really neat "calm and peace" inside.<p>Right now, I still love my WH to pieces but I really don't want to see or talk to him. I'm doing this for me......."Protecting my love for him"........<p>This man has a really ddddddddaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrkkkkkk side to him that nobody, including family ever saw.......I cannot hardly believe what I have learned "evidence brought to me", I didn't go looking for.<p>I have blamed me for so long and I have carried the full resonsibility for this whole mess. I made my errors, know where they were. My WH really NEEDS PRAYERS BAD RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!! So instead of bickering would those of you who "choose" to, just keep my WH in your prayers and me too. (((((PLEASE)))))<p>I need time to sift and sort.<p>(((((((HUGS TO ALL))))))<p>PS: I really am "ok". Just need to figure some things out.<p>[ May 29, 2002: Message edited by: BetrayedAgain ]</p>

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We are here for you BetrayedAgain.<p>Keep posting. Do not doubt what God has done in your heart. Do not doubt openly professing your faith! Do not isolate yourself now - that is JUST what the enemy wants!

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BetrayedAgain,<p>Are you saying that you have just learned new information about WH? ...that because you were not aware of these facts, you felt that some things were your fault when, in fact, you now know that they were not? Hope you're OK.<p>Estes

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Hmmm... Well I must admit that at first I avoided your post because I wasn't sure if you were truly addressing satan or some OW or OM or your WS! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Okay so now that I have read absolutely everything here, I see that you were truly professing your salvation in Christ. To me, that's cool and not haughty of you in the least.<p>I am a true MBer, my marriage is recovered through implementing MB concepts. We are Christians, and our marriage was not afflicted by infidelity, but through unmet needs and withdrawal. So, admittedly, I am not as experienced as BrambleRose as far as the depths of despair that marriage can reach, but it's relative.<p>I also believe God's Word and His promptings via our conscience. I admire the fact that you are sensitive to His leading.<p>I didn't see any disrespectful judgments in the letter. I saw it as your statement of faith regarding your marriage and believing for your potentially unbelieving husband. God will confirm His Word with signs following. He watches over His word to perform it.<p>True, your H has a free will and can divorce you if he wants to, but you might as well let the enemy know that as far as you're concerned, a good fight of faith is in progress.<p>I believe MB and I trust God's Word. I do not elevate Steve Harley's word over God's Word, so if it comes down to something God prompts me to do over a love buster, then OH WELLLLLL! Steve Harley is not the one who has the power to get me to heaven. As Christians we are responsible to obey God's voice, whether it is through submitting to MB concepts or sending an e-mail and what to write in that e-mail.<p>I think it is safe for you to make certain assumptions about your H. He can refute them when he writes back. I'm sure he will be touched by your words. God's word doesn't return to Him void.<p>I didn't see your position as morally superior, I saw it more as a person standing in their faith and believing God for their marriage. SOMEONE has to stand in faith! SHEESH! The unbelieving spouse is sanctified by the believing one. Keep the faith! Be encouraged! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

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Hi BA, hang in there! I will pray for you and your H. You know the attacks that are present here, are because of your statement of faith, and satan (notice the small letter s) hates it, so he is messing up the meaning of what you said to others, he is the greatest deciever in the universe!Dear Heavenly Father,
I stand with BA, and ask You to give her Your strength and blessings. I pray that you O Lord will draw her husband unto Yourself, and will keep him surrounded with Holy Angels! Please Lord Jesus, remove the darkness that has enveloped him. I pray that the peace BA feels will continue, and that You O God will bless her for her stand in this marriage. I pray this in Jesus name! AMEN!!!
God Bless you BA, I'm on your side!

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"Disrespect is viewed as helping the other spouse gain a proper perspective..."<p>If BA's husband IS a believer, then disrespectful judgments do not apply because they ARE on the same page regarding faith, the enemy, their relationship to Christ and the importance and sanctity of their marriage...<p>If BA married her H with these values in place and in mind at the time of their union, then I would not consider her sharing the scriptures as trying to enlighten her H, but merely agreeing with God for the salvation of the marriage...<p>In no way did her email seem to me as condescending or ridiculing or superior or verbally abusive or manipulative??? If anything she sounded strong (IN THE LORD) and like she has enough faith/strength left over to encourage her H if needed. Only he can say...<p>ONLY HE can say if this was/is a love buster. Hopefully BA will provide the update cuz now I'm curious! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

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bravo...bravo...my feelings exactly. If it is a God driven thing then it can't be bad at all. <p> I gave my wife a card tonite. The card itself was the best card I have ever found as far as saying exactly what I was feeling but I wanted to add my own thoughts. This is the truth. My mind was really flashing a lot of thoughts but I didn't know what to write in card. I prayed about it and WOW. The words just flowed from my heart to my pen. It was so amazing. I had to make myself stop writing because I was going to run out of room.<p> My point is this. When God puts something on your heart or in your brain you had better listen because it will be wonderful.<p> Love in Christ<p> cajunky

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I LuvNprotect ME,<p>Keep posting. Do not doubt what God has done in your heart. Do not doubt openly professing your faith! Do not isolate yourself now - that is JUST what the enemy wants!<p>THANK YOU! My very supportive and loving sister and prayer partner, told me this same thing! She told me that satan is trying to tear me apart now with new information because of my "FAITH AND STAND" for my WH and our marriage. Your lovely comment just supports that and my "Sissy".<p>Estes49,<p>Are you saying that you have just learned new information about WH? ...that because you were not aware of these facts, you felt that some things were your fault when, in fact, you now know that they were not? Hope you're OK.<p>YES, that is what I am saying. My only mistakes were maybe loving him too much, trusting him way too much and being human enough to "hurt" over all the tragedy of my brother's murder, mom's illness, stress of drive to work and all that. Yes, prior to our seperation in 4/99, I said hurtful things out of anger, stress, frustration. I needed my WH's love and support more then than ever. I have found out this "A" with the "OW" started months before I was aware it did. It started when I was under all the pressure of my family's death's, illness and etc. Now, I understand why WH was so cold and hateful to me during that time period. I know that I left him open and vulnerable because I was so involved trying to be a "good daughter", be there for mom, my employer and etc. There is just so much of me to go around, ya know? WH never let me know or told me that he needed me or how he felt, he just simply turned to "OW" and made "EVERYTHING" out to be my fault. I now know why he did that.<p>And I have just found out how much he has really lied to me and decieved me throughout the last 3 years, especially the last 1 1/2 to 2 years when I really believed he had ended it with "OW" and we were re-building. How he could look me in the eyes and act like that is way beyond me. I am trying really hard to remind myself, that with me I saw my "real husband" but away from me, what he has done is definitely of satan's influence.<p>BINthereDUNthat,<p>Okay so now that I have read absolutely everything here, I see that you were truly professing your salvation in Christ. To me, that's cool and not haughty of you in the least.<p>"THANK YOU"!<p>True, your H has a free will and can divorce you if he wants to, but you might as well let the enemy know that as far as you're concerned, a good fight of faith is in progress.<p>I believe MB and I trust God's Word. I do not elevate Steve Harley's word over God's Word, so if it comes down to something God prompts me to do over a love buster, then OH WELLLLLL! Steve Harley is not the one who has the power to get me to heaven. As Christians we are responsible to obey God's voice, whether it is through submitting to MB concepts or sending an e-mail and what to write in that e-mail.<p>I think it is safe for you to make certain assumptions about your H. He can refute them when he writes back. I'm sure he will be touched by your words. God's word doesn't return to Him void.<p>"I AGREE WHOLE HEARTEDLY"! THANK YOU "AGAIN"!<p>I didn't see your position as morally superior, I saw it more as a person standing in their faith and believing God for their marriage. SOMEONE has to stand in faith! SHEESH! The unbelieving spouse is sanctified by the believing one. Keep the faith! Be encouraged! <p>"YES-YES-YES-YES"!!!!<p>Stillwaiting,<p>"THANK YOU SO MUCH"! And PLEASE do keep praying as both my WH and I really need prayers right now and for the road ahead...........You brought tears to my eyes and I needed that release right now! Thank you for your "gift".<p>BINthereDUNthat,<p>If BA's husband IS a believer, then disrespectful judgments do not apply because they ARE on the same page regarding faith, the enemy, their relationship to Christ and the importance and sanctity of their marriage...<p>If BA married her H with these values in place and in mind at the time of their union, then I would not consider her sharing the scriptures as trying to enlighten her H, but merely agreeing with God for the salvation of the marriage...<p>My WH DOES believe in GOD and we shared our beliefs and faith "prior" to all this mess with "OW". I know it is still deep inside him "somewhere".<p>THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT AND RESPONSE! "BLESS YOU BACK"!!!!<p>cajunky,<p>bravo...bravo...my feelings exactly. If it is a God driven thing then it can't be bad at all.
I gave my wife a card tonite. The card itself was the best card I have ever found as far as saying exactly what I was feeling but I wanted to add my own thoughts. This is the truth. My mind was really flashing a lot of thoughts but I didn't know what to write in card. I prayed about it and WOW. The words just flowed from my heart to my pen. It was so amazing. I had to make myself stop writing because I was going to run out of room.<p>My point is this. When God puts something on your heart or in your brain you had better listen because it will be wonderful.<p>I am so very proud of you "cajunky"! And I agree with you! I AMS still TRUSTING IN GOD here but with all that has hit me.......I am really struggling.........peace is still with me but heart is really hhhhhheeeeaaaaaavvvvvyyyyy right now! PLEASE KEEP ME IN YOUR THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS. (MY WH TOO)!<p>I am trying really hard to hang in here you guys and gals. I am still praying and reading MB books and have some more coming in mail. I just simply am "protecting" the remaining love for my WH by protecting me at this time. I really have NO DESIRE to see him or talk with him or even to find him as I simply don't know how I would react to him after learning all this......I need this time for me......If he by some chance shows up on our front steps......I will have to pray for GOD'S guidance and apply MB principal's best I can under the circumstances. I don't expect he'll show up or contact me for a long time to come....<p>I am still standing in faith with "GOD" as he is the only one that can look over us now......In the meantime, I am going to lean on him with everything that I am........going to take care of me during this time.......I have placed me, WH and this marriage in his precious, loving, guiding hands....... And that I know id the "RIGHT THING TO DO"......otherwise....I won't make it through this..........<p>[ May 30, 2002: Message edited by: BetrayedAgain ]</p>

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Hey BA, I believe our hearts are united in Christ, I have many times felt as you do. Of course although the circustances may have different reasons for them, they are the same. There were so many stages that I went through. Anger took quite a while, and during that time there is no way I wanted to talk to my WH either. But soon after, healing came, and now if the Lord leads me to, I get in touch with WS. I haven't been for a while, and just wait on the Lord to get us in touch again sometime. It really is important to look after you right now, get your relationship with Jesus stronger than ever, it is awesome.
The best advise I ever received from anyone, was to become the holiest woman I could become.
Matthew 6:33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.
Seeking the Lord is the only way, as He knows the path, we must trust Him.
Proverbs 3:5,6Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding, In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will make your paths straight.
Keep loving the Lord BA, and He will make your life unbelievable!
If you want to know how he has worked in my life, I'd be glad to share it with you!
In the meantime, stay strong in the Lord, keep your faith in Him, and may His peace surround you always.
God Bless,

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BA,<p>What a knife through the heart it is to learn that someone you love betrays you when you are in your deepest need of support! That your H was not there for you during you hard times shouts of his weakness. Of course, you know that. Affairs occur when people fail to protect their own weaknesses. I'm so sorry and will keep you in my prayers.<p>Estes

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...and having done all to stand--STAND...

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I hope this encourages you today:<p>NLT: Zechariah 9:12 Come back to the place of safety, all you prisoners, for there is yet hope! I promise this very day that I will repay you two mercies for each of your woes!

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Hi BA - I think I've said all I can or all you wish to hear, but I do want to respond to a couple of others on your thread, do ya mind?<p>I am very sorry to hear that you have uncovered more details about the depth of your husband's betrayal. Having your reality turned on its head is simply an understatement isn't it? ((((hugs))))<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Stillwaiting said:
You know the attacks that are present here, are because of your statement of faith, and satan (notice the small letter s) hates it, so he is messing up the meaning of what you said to others<hr></blockquote><p>Well thanks for making my point about disrespectful judgements. In your self-righteousness, you've just basically said that I am carrying out Satan's work. I'll just start signing my posts: BrambleRose - AKA Tool of Satan. (Yes, Jo, I'm being sarcastic again!)<p>It so happens that I believe in God, I believe in the bible and I believe that Christ is the Savior of all mankind.<p>But because I disagree with the approach of preaching at a WS...I'm now being cast as "attacking" BA because Satan is unhappy with her faith? Oh yes, the devil made me do it. Puhleeze.<p>I have absolutely NO arguments with BA's faith. I simply have alot of experience in what worked to save my marriage, and other marriages - which is God's work - wouldn't you agree?<p>I have not said ONE word to her about changing what she believes in. In fact, I'm the first person to stand up and say: "Let Go and Let God."<p>Disrespectful judgements HARM us, and HARM others. Disrespectful judgements take away basic human dignity from their target. Disrespectful judgements undermine marriages. <p>But if your Disrespectful Judgement is couched in scripture - harming others is OK?<p>I can think of more than a few horrific incidents in history where harm was dealt out in the name of following God's word. God is perfect - we human beings are not. We aren't perfect in understanding or hearing or carrying out His word either. <p>How arrogant and prideful to assume that I'm RIGHT therefore I can harm others to force them to see the TRUTH. All those OTHER people may make mistakes regarding God's Word, but not ME, I'm righteous in the Lord and therefore I have carte blanche to set you straight!<p>I don't think so.<p>You see, I believe in a forgiving, loving, merciful God who does NO harm.<p>I believe that if I live my life with the conscious effort to avoid doing harm, and to always do my best to focus on fixing MY soul, that God will sort the rest out. <p>You DO recall that whole passage about casting out the beam in your own eye before going after the splinter in your brother's, right? This whole little passage in the bible seems to flat out point out that we have a responsibility to take action regarding ourselves, and to Live and Let Live with others around us.<p>I don't go around deciding that I am more educated than others about God's word, and then causing harm and hurt, with God as my justification.<p>I have yet to see ANYONE on this thread or any where on MB post that this method worked.<p>But by all means, continuing waiting self-righteously for your spouse to see that you are right and come home. Maybe that will work for you.<p>It would have ended in my divorce.<p>
As for Steve Harley's word being some how inferior to God's...<p>When God comes down and says flat out that Steve Harley is WRONG for saving hundreds of marriages that otherwise might have ended in divorce, I'll start thinking that Steve is somehow less than God.<p>My take has always been that Steve's methods give the highest chance for our spouses to RETURN to God, to their families and to their marriages. But then again, if I am arrogant to think that I understand God's word better than everyone else who has come before me and made mistakes, then I am certainly arrogant enough to decide that a man who has saved more marriages than I could possibly HAVE in a lifetime knows less than I do about how to save a marriage.<p>Using Steve's methods, my husband has been restored to our marriage, restored to church and restored to God.<p>I did it by learning to keep my big mouth shut and not to tell my husband that he was evil and sinning by committing adultery, and by not demanding that he start living his life according to my standards.<p>When I started attending to the beam in my own eye, then my husband stopped his evil actions, and came back home. I got out of God's way and truely left my husband to God without MY interference. God didn't NEED me to tell my husband what God thought or wanted. God needed me to get the heck out of the way so he could work on my husband without my screwing it up with my self-will, arrogance, and pride.<p>In the meantime, I was on my knees begging God for the willingness to be willing to hear His will, istead of imposing MY will on everyone else.<p>Humility works. Imagine that.

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Amen, BR, I agree!

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Hey BR,
I don't want to cut in on BA's thread, would you mind sending me an email?
Thanks,
Elizabeth

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Dear BrambleRose,
I respect your opinions and I totally respect how you have worked Harley's principles to save your marraige.<p>I see you noted some of my points regarding Steve Harley's word vs. God's Word so I would like to address your comments...<p>I said that I would not elevate Steve's word over God's word but in no way was I implying that Steve Harley's advice was not valuable and worth seeking. Because if that was the case, I would not be on this site whatsoever!<p>I was merely addressing the subject of this thread, to encourage the original poster to go with her godly convictions. <p>My main point was that only her H can decide if she LB'd. Maybe her approach would have been a huge LB'er to your H. Nobody is taking that away from you. You seem to be discounting the fact that she knows her own husband and what he can or cannot receive... Maybe BA deserves a little credit for that much???<p>Personally, I did not view your opinions as an attack on the poster, you have gobs of experience in MBing and you KNOW what you are talking about. And, I get the feeling that quoting or sharing scripture of any sort is frowned upon by you in any case where a BS is communicating with their WS. "Disrespectful judgments couched in scripture????" What's up with that??? What's wrong with communicating and encouraging each other based on our First Love values???<p>If BA's husband reverences scripture, then I believe (by faith) that he would receive her words with the same spirit in which they were given--not to manipulate or control or persuade him of anything except to realize that she has faith in God saving their M and she loves and accepts him regardless.<p>Maybe you didn't mean to sound sarcastic, but I'm not sure a sarcastic tone is very convincing. Saying go ahead and use disrespectful judgments to save your marriage. That sounded like you got offended? I wouldn't let anything here offend you because I doubt if anyone was calling you satan. Come on, now! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I'm not attacking you, just feeling sarcasm coming out of your post.<p>We can take MB concepts and turn them into legalism instead of allowing MB to do what it is meant to do--FREE us and save our marriages through understanding and action... Just like we can take scriptures--which are meant to FREE us from satan's bondage and sin--which ties us down again and turn them into something opposite of what they were intended. Jesus said His yoke is easy and His burden is light.<p>Maybe BA is not following the "letter of the MB Law" in your opinion and therefore is doomed to fail by proven statistics, but I believe she has the right spirit. God looks at our hearts and I believe that from her heart, she meant only well. Whether her approach is right or wrong, who knows, WHO CARES? At least she is trying the best way she knows how and she has not given up. She recognizes the real (true) enemy of her marriage which is NOT her WS or the OP! Doesn't that count for something? [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I still maintain that it is for her H to decide if quoting God's word via e-mail is disrespectful. God's word is very powerful. BA's faith has no control over her husband's decisions whatsoever, her faith can only sustain her through this traumatic ordeal.<p>BTW, she never said anything like "You SHOULD..." or "Why don't you... because God says..." To me, that would seem prideful...<p>[ May 31, 2002: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</p>

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Another thing Bramble, this is only one e-mail and a MBer's first strides at making some spiritual progress in her own personal life (& letting go of the intense emotional struggles involved with recovering from her WS's A)! <p>Go easy on a MB beginner! Brand new MBer's need a lot of support and encouragement, right? Her H has disappeared without a trace and this A has been going on for approx. 3 years?! <p>You say you've been there--where she is right now--confused, worried, anxious, unsure, "preachy"... She'll get there (to where you are--in full recovery from this) with or without her WS because of her strong faith--& to me, that counts for a LOT.<p>[ May 31, 2002: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</p>

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BINthereDUNthat,<p>"THANK YOU"! I could not have said things better myself. I am very happy for BrambleRose and that her husband is with her and things are going well for them. "I really am". I wouldn't wish this kind of pain on my worse enemy, that's for sure.<p>I walk in faith, with GOD, that I too will someday know the joy of my WH once again being in my arms and the joy of rebuilding our new marriage. I walk in faith, that while the real work between us will begin in recovery, the man he is now, will not be the same man that returns. I am surving this through prayer and believing that GOD has already begun his work in both myself and my WH. <p>(NO OFFENSE HERE MEANT AT ALL BrambleRose) but an example of GOD'S work that has already taken place inside me is about 1-2 months ago, I would have ripped you a new A**-H**E. 'Today, I am not that same person". Today, I am less judging, more understanding, patient, forgiving and even alot less angry or resentful. I credit GOD with my change of heart and attitude, with my peace inside, in spite of what has happened the last 1-2 months.<p>Let me tell you first hand, I almost envy those who are in this pain, yet know where their spouses are, whether it be still at home or where they have moved to. "I do not even have that". My husband has a "serious medical heart condition" and the life he is living right now, certainly IS NOT helping that. I can do nothing about his choices "EXCEPT PRAY". Everytime the phone rings or someone comes to the door, I fear that something terrible has happened to my husband. I pray that GOD is watching over him and protecting him, keeping him safe. <p>Can you all even begin to understand the pain, should something happen to my WH and I find him laying in some hospital on the brink of death or worse yet? The pain of my last memory of him being his telling me: "I am tired of everyone having their noses stuck in my business and I am NOT telling you where I am"? Too not know what the outcome may or may not have been?<p>To know that for almost 2 years, WH allowed me to believe we were rebuilding and the future was ours, only to find out in April, that he has deceived me all along? (This was worse than beginning of all this). To not know when he told me that he loved and missed me, if that was "the truth" or a cover to keep me off balance of them? Last time he told me that he loved me was left on my cell voice mail April 8, 2002 and I was informed thru trusted sources of his and "OW" continued "A" on 4/13/02. Things went to hell from there and I have had no contact or response from WH since 4/26/02. I have NO IDEA where he is, only where he isn't.<p>If it wasn't for my faith in GOD, I wouldn't be here right now.<p>(((((HUGS BINthereDUNthat)))))

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