Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our discussion forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 37
Z
Member
OP Offline
Member
Z
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 37
Last year my husband went away on a training course and after several months that were hard on our marriage he fell in love with someone else and had a sexual affair that lasted about 10 days, but emotionally for longer than that. Problem is that i have chosen to try to forgive him, because i truly love him and believe he is a wonderful person (not a dog), he made a very wrong choice and followed his emotions, i cannot stop thinking about them, the hows, whys whens. I obsess about what she looks like and everything. I can't say i trust him yet either, she lives in another province but i worry if there is any communication going on (he says no). He has tried to explain it to me but he is not even sure how or why-he thought he fell in love-enough that he thought of leaving me to be with her-how can i forgive that?? Over the past 4 months i feel like i have done a complete 180 and am back to where i was when i found out...Please give some advice-i don't want to hear opinions about what kind of person he is-i want to know how i can move on...How do you stop picturing and thinking, what makes you move on? I know he is not a bad person, he really got caught up in a life where he became someone else-drinking and all that-I know that is not the excuse but i know he is not a [censored] who intentionally set out to hurt me-he thought he fell in love..I just dont understand how and why-what was he thinking when he was making plans with her then telling me he loved me and wanted us to work on our marriage???

hope some one can help.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 16,412
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 16,412
ZM,

These boards are full of people who have forgiven their spouses for infidelity and rebuilt there marriages...so have no fear that you will be called a fool, or your husband vilified. Welcome to the forum.

I see that you are new...have you read the info on the site....pay particular attention to Plan A.

The pictures fade....believe me. I know you can't imagine it now, but they do. You have a whole marriage to remember, and in the future, the memories of 10 days, will become mostly that...ten days....weighed against years and years of marriage. Right now they carry more weight because of the pain....but as the healing occurs they will fade.

I know you are hurting, but you have come to a good place.

hugs

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,868
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,868
ZM; perhaps this might help...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Forgiveness
From “After the Affair” – Janis Abrahms Spring, PhD
Learning to forgive p. 238 (Excerpts)

If your goal is reconciliation, forgiveness requires restitution. Forgiveness is a two-person process; you can’t forgive those who refuse to acknowledge and redress the harm they’ve caused you-you certainly can’t have a vital, intimate relationship with them.

“True forgiveness cannot be granted until the perpetrator has sought and earned it through confession, repentance, and restitution.” - Judith Lewis Herman

A partner who wants to be physically and psychologically connected to you must work to win forgiveness through specific concrete behaviors. Unearned forgiveness, like unrequited love, reinforces the assumption that it’s your job alone to stay attached, that your partner doesn’t need to share the burden of recovery. If you have even a shred of self-esteem, you’re likely to find this a dysfunctional notion.

“While reconciliation may be a desirable outcome, psychologically, forgiveness has to be earned. To forgive people who do not acknowledge the injury, or even worse, rationalize their injurious behavior as having been deserved (or justified), is to sustain the injury all over again.” Robert Lovinger (Clinical Psychologist) in “Religion and Counseling”

The truth is, however, that you, the hurt partner, won’t ever forget how you’ve been deceived, whether you forgive or not. Years later, you’ll still be able to recall the exact moment of the revelation, and all the gory details of the affair. You, the unfaithful one, are likely to want your partner to forgive and forget so that you can move on to a peaceful reconciliation, but you can’t rush the process. If you don’t attend to the damage you’ve caused, your partner probably will.

When you forgive, you don’t forget how you’ve been wronged, but you do allow yourself to stop dwelling on it. Your hurtful memories are likely to stay alive, but relegated to a corner of your mind. You continue to see the damage, but only as part of a picture that includes the loving times as well-the ones that remind you why you’ve chosen to stay together. The past may continue to sting, but it’s also likely to teach come important lessons and inspire you to do better.

Forgiving, in short, entails conscious forgetting, which Jungian analyst Clarissa Pinkola Estes describes as “refusing to summon up the fiery material…willfully dropping the practice of obsessing…, thereby living in a new landscape, creating anew life and new experiences to think about instead of the old ones.”

Unearned forgiveness is pseudo forgiveness. It’s something you grant, not because your partner deserves it, but because you feel pressured to, either by others or by romantic moralistic assumptions about what forgiveness means. Given rashly or prematurely, it buries the pain alive, and robs you and your partner of the chance to confront the lessons of the affair and properly redress each other’s wounds.

It is commonly assumed that forgiveness is not just a gift to your partner, but a gift to yourself, in service of your best self, and that it imbues you, the forgiver, with a sense of well-being, of psychological and physical health. By forgiving “you set a prisoner free, but you discover the real prisoner was yourself”.

The idea that forgiveness is categorically good for you is popular both with the general public and with professionals, but it hasn’t held up under study. In fact, it has been shown in some cases to be anti-therapeutic, spawning feelings of low self-worth in the person who forgives.
“A too ready tendency to forgive may be a sign that one lacks self-respect, and conveys-emotionally-either that we do not think we have rights or that we do not take our rights very seriously,” writes Jeffrie Murphy in “Forgiveness and resentment”. Murphy goes on to point out that a willingness to be a doormat for others reveals not love or friendship, but what psychiatrist Karen Horney calls “morbid dependency.” My own clinical experience confirms that unearned forgiveness is no cure for intimate wounds; that it merely hides them under a shroud of smiles and pleasantries, and allows them to fester.
You may have been taught by family or religious leaders that forgiveness is a redemptive act-a form of self-sacrifice that good people make to their enemies. By forgiving, you demonstrate your compassion and innocence, and preserve, or create, an image of yourself as a martyr or saint.
Forgiveness by itself, however, is not admirable-unless, of course, you believe that silencing yourself and denying yourself a just solution is admirable. What you consider magnanimity may in fact be nothing but a way of asserting your moral superiority over your partner and freeing yourself from your own contributions to the affair. What you see as self-sacrifice may serve the larger purpose of putting your partner under your control, under a debt of gratitude that can never be fully repaid.

The problem with expedient forgiveness-forgiveness granted without any attitudinal or emotional change towards the offender-is that it’s likely over time to exacerbate feelings of depression and grief, and feed an underlying aggression toward your partner. Those who forgive too quickly tend to interact with false or patronizing sweetness, punctuated by sarcasm or overt hostility. The result is a relationship ruled by resentment, petty squabbles, numbness, surface calm, and self-denial- a relationship lacking both in vitality and authenticity.

A patient named Pat modeled expedient forgiveness when she put her husband’s affair behind her long before the two of them had examined its meaning and put it to rest. “I know Henry never stopped loving me,” she told me. “I don’t need him to beg for my pardon.” Eight years later, however, though Henry never strayed again, they were still stumbling over trust and intimacy issues.

As I’ve said, “making nice” settles nothing. If you want to pave the way for genuine forgiveness, you can’t sweep what happened under the table. You need your partner to understand your pain, feel remorse, apologize, and demonstrate a commitment to rebuilding the relationship. To heal, you need to forgive, but your partner must apply salve to your wounds, first.

(Note: I believe the above is exactly what may have happened after WW’s first affair, when we did not address the issues, did not fully understand what had happened and what needed to change, and the mere end of the relationship brought “forgiveness”.)

Self-Forgiveness
In addition to forgiving your partner for wronging you, you should consider forgiving yourself for the wrongs you’ve inflicted on your partner, your family, and yourself.
For you, the hurt partner, these wrongs might include:

• Being overly naïve, trusting too blindly, ignoring your suspicions about your partner’s infidelity;
• Blaming yourself too harshly for your partner’s betrayal;
• Tolerating or making excuses for your partner’s unacceptable behavior to preserve your relationship;
• Having such poorly developed concepts of self and love that you felt un-entitled to more;
• Hurting and degrading yourself for making unfair comparisons between yourself and the lover;
• Feeling so desperate to win your partner back that you acted in ways that humiliated you-in front of the lover, your family, your friends;
• Losing your sense of self; losing sight of what you value in yourself;
• Putting your kids in the middle by needing them to support you, love you, and take your side against the other parent;
• Being so upset by the affair that you weren’t there for your children;
• Isolating yourself unnecessarily; trying so hard to protect the feelings of your children and parents that you cut yourself off from their support;
• Contributing to your partner’s dissatisfaction at home (for example, by failing to take your partner’s grievances seriously; getting buried in your career or in the needs of your children; being too critical, unavailable, or needy).

You, the unfaithful partner, should consider forgiving yourself for:

• Feeling so needy, so entitled to get your needs met, that you violated your partner;
• Exposing your partner-the person you love, the parent of your children-to a life-threatening disease.
• Blaming your partner for your dissatisfaction, without realizing how your own misperceptions, misbehavior, and unrealistic expectations compromised your relationship;
• Developing attitudes that justified your deception and minimized the significance of your actions;
• Failing to confront your partner with your essential needs; acting in ways that blocked your partner from satisfying them;
• Having unrealistic ideas about mature love that rendered you incapable of tolerating disenchantments in your relationship;
• Having such poorly developed concepts of self and love that you didn’t know how to create and sustain intimacy, or feel satisfied in a committed relationship;
• Inflicting chaos on your children, family, and friends.

No matter how your partner may have contributed to your unhappiness at home, you, the unfaithful partner, are solely responsible for your deception, and need to forgive yourself for the harm you’ve cause by violating your covenant of trust. You may also want to forgive yourself for the hurt you’ve caused your children. This may be an easier task if you can teach them through your own example that two people who love each other can make mistakes, take responsibility for them, and work together to renew their lives together.
It may help you and your partner to forgive yourselves if you learn to accept yourselves as fallible, erring human beings-conditioned, confused, struggling to make the most of a life you neither fully understand nor control. Self-forgiveness doesn’t relieve you of responsibility for your words or actions, but it may release you from self-contempt and from a “crippling sense of badness” that makes you believe “I can’t do better.” With self-forgiveness, you bring a gentle compassion to your understanding of who you are and why you acted the way you did, and reclaim what you most value in yourself.

To “forgive and forget” is just a popular saying. Forgiving and forgetting are two completely different notions, and rarely go together in the real world.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 139
E
Member
Offline
Member
E
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 139
YES! Your marriage can survive.

Two and a half years after my H's affair, I hardly ever think of it anymore. And it no longer carries the sting it once did. It was a valuable lesson my H and I benefited from.

Now, when I think about our marriage, I know it is stronger and wiser. I think we have an incredible advantage over couples who have never been through something like this, who go 20 or 30 years thinking "That could never happen to us" or "My spouse would never cheat." (Yes it could, and yes he/she would!)

The pain does NOT last forever and it DOES fade eventually. The trick is to learn from the experience as much as you can - you and your H both. Read, read, read what Harley says about affairs - get your H to read it to. Talk about it together - form a plan to ensure it will never happen again.

An affair can permanently weaken and destroy a marriage - or it can strengthen it beyond belief. It's all about what you two do NOW.

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 37
Z
Member
OP Offline
Member
Z
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 37
Thank you for those of you have responded, i feel there is incredible wisdom on this sight but never seem to get far enough in to it.

I will continue to visit and hope more words that make me believe i can move on and that i will understand some day.

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,900
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,900
Read all this site, not just the message boards. The message boards are great in knowing you are not alone, that others have or are going through the same type of feelings. However, the most important helpful information are on the other parts of this board. READ IT! Print it out & read it again. Order SAA. Try & cousenl with the Harley's. Have you & your H do the ENs ?s.

Read it all again. Then come here & vent, ask for advice. Also as your H seems to want to recover, you might find more answers on the recovery board. GQII gets the most traffic but also has the most hurting people.

Good luck & remember marriages can recover.

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Zachsmom,

You are exactly on the right track and right where you should be in recovery. It takes a year to 18 months to get over this but it can be done if the WS takes steps to rebuild trust and protect the BS. Have you taken the EN questionaire to determine what conditions in the marriage contributed to the affair? Not that you CAUSED the affair, but often one is not getting thier needs met at home, which can make one vulnerable to an affair. Unless that cause is recognized and resolved, it can happen again.

Hang in there and come to us for support. You have a rocky road ahead of you, but there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 22
C
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 22
i had an affair and i know my H is really struggling somt days in the same way you are. All i want to say is that we are all human and make mistakes. from my point of view the reasons why and how are irrelevant. The fact it happened is devastating but we all make mistakes and then trying to find out why is the hard part. I wonder why. I can think of lots of excuses for my behaviour but when it comes down to it i just got carried away in the feelings. No other reason than that. it was a bad and selfish choice. i regret it but it was a mistake and others have suffered.

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,078
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,078
Dear ZM,

read your postings-boy did I like the one from Spacecase about the forgiveness. Copied and printed it to read it again and again.
I think for you forgiveness comes easier because you feel that you have had problems before the A happened (I wrote a reply to the question in your posting in my thread). I admire you for being able to forgive and truly move on. I'll try to learn from your experiences and those of others on this site. The most wonderful postings I find are the ones from people who are really in recovery and nothing else has happend for many years. I hope that you and I can come back here - let's say 5 or 10 years from now- and write that we are truly happy.

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,206
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,206
zachsmom-
My H too fell in love with someone else - the affair was LD and brief - but very intense.
My signature line really says it all.
The book, which Spacecase quoted from, After the Affair is excellent - both of you should read it and discuss it.
If your H is truly remorseful, has recommitted to you, and is willing to do everything possible to rebuild and be accountable then in time, your pain, the pictures etc will fade. I don't believe it'll ever disappear but at some point they will not really mean much anymore.
Our recovery was classic - two years practically to the day of the start of the PA anyway, my H was finally able to recommit his love to me.. and it was at that point I could release some of the pain and anger..
Hang in there.

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 37
Z
Member
OP Offline
Member
Z
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 37
I am hoping someone can help.....I am in a bad place right now...My husband is somewhat of an emotional cripple, he doesn't talk deep-it's all surface talk. I need the deep right now, i need to know the why' and how's and how does he feel now, bu he just feels pinned up against a wall. I generally react in order to get SOMETHING out of him, so i say "If you can't open up then you don't love me enough to try". Problem is that hearing that enough times-he begins to wonder if i am better off without him. I feel i am constantly on the verge of exploding to try and get something out of him. I started counselling again today and am starting to convince myself that this marriage will be over soon because he doesn't want to change...How do i get him to see what i need without feeling threatened???

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,206
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,206
zachsmom-
okay - breathe - counselling is a good idea - go with that.

Your H will never give you the "deep" talk you need if all you do is react. If he does not feel safe going there with you - he never will. The things you have to talk about will no doubt be hurtful - he's probably avoiding that. Don't pin him to the wall right now - he may not have those answers for you right now. Step back, focus on YOU for a bit first... I know how difficult that can be and I know what it is like to need to know those answers...they will come...but give it time! He will always feel threatened if he knows you will explode at anything!

Creating safe environment for both of you to talk openly and honestly is priority, and right now neither of you have the tools to start doing that for yourselves.
Definitely, definitely read Surviving an Affair, and After the Affair....

Breathe. You are stronger than you think.

<small>[ August 16, 2002, 01:05 AM: Message edited by: Alberta ]</small>

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 37
Z
Member
OP Offline
Member
Z
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 37
Help!! Things have gone from bad to worse. We are now separating, i am totally blind sided. Long story short--several reasons, he can't stand to look at me every day and deal with what he did, he is wrestling with every doubt he has ever had, he still has feelings for her-although he has not spoken or seen her in 4 1/2 months (she lives 18 hours away). He believes that if he leaves things will be easier...This is coming after we have had some wonderful nights together-really really passionate nights. We have also been battling some work pressures, so he feels because he has been on edge it is not fair.

I am so angry right now and i feel true hate for him, the fact that he still loves her makes me feel completely violated and humiliated, i feel like he has chosen her over me, which kills me. We have 13 years together and a child and she was 10 days of sex 5 months ago...and he wonders why i feel like the dirt on his shoe..

What do i do, i am torn between just saying screw you, get out and being loving and understanding and lets work on what we can,,..HELP!!!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 6,473
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 6,473
Hi ZM,
I can't take away your pain, I can't make everything better for you. I can tell you that many, many have gone through what you are feeling and come out better for it on the other side. I have noticed that tomorrow is usually better. Get some sleep, you will wake up with the same problems but things will somehow be different. Go one more day, think some more, come back and tell us how you feel.

Please know that we care. Read the stories of others that have been where you are and have made it, it helps. Here is one for you to look at.
Lostva's story

Go about 6 down to Lostva's big post ( there is a small one only a few down, go past that.)

You have the right to quit if you want, but if you choose to try and work it out, we will be here for you.

Oh ZM, I am so sorry for your pain, I hope you find rest tonight.

Ss

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 37
Z
Member
OP Offline
Member
Z
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 37
Thank you still seeking, i am an emotional wreck right now, and i hate myself for it. I have let my ego take a huge beating and i can't stand it. I basically feel like he has chosen this person over me, that things were so hopeless with me that he is willing to take this huge step instead of trying to get to the bottom of it. His way of dealing with this is to forget it, it didn't work so that means he doesn't belong with us. i told him last night that although i truly hate him for this, and it is killing me i will let him go without making this a mess, i will try to understand that this is what he needs. Then is i start thinking again..How can 2 months with this person whom he hasn't seen or spoken to in 4 mos compare to our 13 years, the last 4 mos with a few ups and downs have been incredible and passionate, how can i believe that he was no faking it with me..I am so torn, i really really need your support now, somebody who can make me see some other side to things....God i have no idea how i will survive this...

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 37
Z
Member
OP Offline
Member
Z
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 37
Can anyone give me some hints on what to do. I love this person so much and i am torn between rage/hatred/understanding/love. Do i accept this and make it easier on him so he can work through his pain, or do i give him it all-rage and all...He is a good person who can't forget he did this, but i would like some hints on how i can help him (and me too-in case i am fooling myself). Tonight i sent him a sweet "I love you" note, just for him to remember but am i making it worse and sounding needy? Because he believes he still has feelings for HER, whom he hasn' seen or spoken to in 4 mos. and very likely she will not move here, should i move to Plan A..

Hope there are some words of wisdom as this seems to be the place to get advice...

Looking forward to hearing.

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,616
S
SwH Offline
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,616
Hi Zachsmom
Have your read Surviving an Affair. For me it was a godsend. Helped me to keep my Sanity.

Right now, you H is in a fog, the book helps to explain it. What you should do, mostly for yourself is Plan A (I think there is a link on this website, if not it is in the book). Plan A is about improving yourself and refraining from making withdrawal from your H's love bank. The way the Harley's explain, when we first meet and date, we are on our best behavior, so we are making Love Bank deposits. When we do something our spouse does not like we are making LB (love busters) which are Love bank withdrawals. At some point the withdrawals get to a low in the bank which is not good. You want to avoid the withdrawals and work on yourself. There are also EN questionaires in the book and on the website.

(Others here do a much better job of describing what I just attempted to do.) If you go to some of the links on the website, it might help. I found the SAA book to be very valuable. Some bookstores i understand have it. I ordered mine from the website.

As frustrated as you are, and as much as you want to yell and scream, it will get you no where at this point. If you try to break up the A, it might bring them closer together. Most A's die a natural death.

<small>[ August 20, 2002, 12:46 AM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]</small>

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 6,473
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 6,473
Hi again,

I believe your starting point is to better understand what is happening. What your H is thinking and feeling and what you are thinking and feeling has been studied cataloged and is pretty well understood. If you read about it, and study it, you will have a better basis to repair your marriage. Sue is right, you need to read.

Perhaps you should start here.
K's helps for new members

If you wonder if K knows what he is talking about, here is his story.
K's Story

The more your learn about what is happening, the more options you will have.

Don't let the pain you are experiancing lead you to make things worse. There really are things you can do get through this terrible time.

Tell us where you are now, and what has happened in the last few weeks. We worry about you.

SS

<small>[ August 20, 2002, 10:39 AM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 37
Z
Member
OP Offline
Member
Z
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 37
I hope you guys all realize how wonderful it is to hear from you, you have helped me be a better person (I just wish my H could understand). I sat him down tonight and we had a heart to heart. I asked him if he felt i didn't give him "What he deserved" and if that is what he is having a hard time with, he said that he doesn;t understand why i am still loving him. I asked him if the past 4 months were true and if he still feels love for me, and he says yes,this has nothing to do with his feelings for me. This has to do with not being able to live with what he did and still feeling something for this OP. I did say that i believed he has feelings for the situation,the A, what it meant and he is mixing that up with feelings with her. I told him that no matter what i say to try to rationalize it i will not beg him to stay, i do not want to think he will stay for the wrong reason. He is very emotional but guess what?? He still doesn't talk. He is going to his counsellor tomorrow and i have asked him to lay it all out for her and listen to what she says. I have asked that if there is more to his feelings (is he just trying to sugar-coat it), he needs to be honest with me instead of me believing something else. I talked about our love-making, and our leisure time, i told him my heart tells me there is too much feeling for it not to be real, and he gets emotional..I know there is something there, I told him that I felt he was leaving for the wrong reason-although it does kill me that he can't forget her, he said that having feelings for someone is wrong. I said that not dealing with those feelings will always keep them there, trying to forget will never work. I asked him if he has contacted her at all yet(nothing in 4 months), I wondered if he would let her know right away that he is leaving me and loves her, he said he has not, and i truly believe him. I asked him to promise me (at this time we are both emotional) that no matter what, if chooses to leave, that he will not let his pride get in the way if and when he is ready to come home, to not think that he doesn't deserve to be home and stay away for that reason. I told him i will never guarantee where i will be when that time comes, but he owes it to both of us and our son to try.

He made a joke that i am abnormal because 4 days ago he told me he thinks he still has feelings for the OP and i am still trying to work it out. I have no idea where i am getting this strength, I was truly one of those people that would NEVER forgive an affair, EVER, no one could tell ME "You don't know until you are there", i knew. Well guess what?? I was wrong, the one thing i could never forgive is slapping me in the face every day, and i ache to have this man hold me..I guess you never ever know...

Thanks Still Seeking and Sue with hope, you have given me hope, it helps to know that the unforgivable is not so unforgivable...Now let's just hope he can learn to forgive himself....

Keep the advice coming...

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 37
Z
Member
OP Offline
Member
Z
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 37
Bumping

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Fordude 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 63 guests, and 50 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Convict20, GTNY, Avianna, BootsJeans, B24gordon
71,735 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,549
Posts2,322,799
Members71,736
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2020, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.  |  Web Development by SunStar Media.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5