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I just can't believe he would be so thoughtless to take her and all of the kids (hers and mine) up to OUR cabin for "family bonding" time!!! AND MY KIDS AGREED TO GO!!! ARGHHHHHH. I am having a really hard time understanding this. to top it all off...they are going to The Flume and The Polar Caves (two popular attractions up here). For the past 13 years we have had this place and the ONLY time we ever did anything was about 5 years ago...we drove to the top of Mt. Washington! He was always too busy or too tired. Now all of a sudden, he wants to sightsee!! All I could think about last night was all of them sitting around the campfire laughing and talking. I feel so abandoned by everyone. I am sorry....I know this sounds like such a pity party. I just had to vent.

I am going out to lunch with my mother in a little while. Hopefully, it will help pull me out of this mood. It just seems like the hurt will never end. I know eventually it will, but WHEN!!

I think I will take off w/ the kids for a few days. Maybe go to Vermont. I have never been there. I don't have too much money to work with, but I know planning something will help get me out of this funk.
BH

<small>[ August 24, 2002, 07:07 PM: Message edited by: brokenhearted ]</small>

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BH-

It looks to me that you have been in plan B for sometime, not plan A if you are separated. I also think that your H has taken every step (besides marriage to OW) in replacing you. Your kids appear to have accepted the fact that your M is over as well.

I hate to say this...but baring a miracle, it looks like your M is basically over. You need to plan for your own future and begin to emotionally separate (easier said than done) from your H.

It's time to take care of you....look at your impending final D date as a new beginning and a new life. Pray for strength and you shall receive it.

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I know this is hard, but think of it this way- Thank GOD you are not with a person who can do this kind of thing to another person anymore! the fact that it is your ex best friend involved makes it even more sickening. I think you sound a lot stronger than I would be! I really and truly believe that what goes around will come around. Karma is a powerful, POWERFUL thing. I don't think you need or should do anything nasty to him, or to "get back", etc. He'll get his, in time.........and so will she. In the meantime try and think of all the new and exciting possibilities you have coming to you now! I am still with WS, but the prospect of starting over sometimes looks VERY appealing.........

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God bless you, honey! Your signature line is so true! Just always keep it in mind!

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Hi Brokenhearted,

Don't know what I can really say to you right now to make you feel a little better, but I wanted to post to you because I have been in your position and other than discovery day(s) it was the most painful thing I ever went through.

Just a little background. I was married 20 years, we have three kids, my ex-husband had an affair that I found out about after it ended, and then he turned to a long-time co-worker to help him through his grief. Well, as I told him would happen, this turned into an all-out affair and he has been living with her now for a year or so.

For all of our marriage we spent a week at the beach with the kids. He wasted no time packing up her daughter and our kids and taking them all to the beach for vacation. I was crushed.

When the kids came home it was obvious to me that the trip had been stressful. OW is very quiet by nature and going from one teen (hers)to four teens around was tough. I heard from a friend that my ex-husband said it was not "the best of times" and he would not be repeating it again in the near future. He also tried to keep everyone very "entertained" during that vacation, and still does when he and OW take the kids. It's funny, when you and your family went to the cabin you didn't seem to need to fill every second did you? My ex-husband still does that when he has the kids. They can never just hang out, it has to be plans, plans, plans up the kazoo. Kinda says somthing doesn't it?

I know you're hurting, but he will find out that you just can't remove one wife, insert another one and have everything happily go on. The kids are missing you and their old times there I'm sure so don't be too rough on them for agreeing to go. I've found mine will do almost anything to keep the peace and really bury their hurt. Please don't show them the hurt they have caused you by going. It's the hardest damn thing, but put on that happy face when they get home.

A little trip with you and the kids is the best idea. I've become very creative with vacations now as I don't have the kind of money I once did, but have managed to do things with the kids that I never would have done when I was married because he would not have wanted to do them...white water rafting, horse-back riding. It's been great and pretty cheap.

Just try to remember that being there is probably really wierd for the kids and even for your ex-husband. It's probably even weird for OW as there must be reminders of you everywhere. (GOOD!)

Glad you're having lunch with your mom. Keep busy as you can.

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Thank you all for your responses.

Doogie, I never really went into plan B as I still have a lot of contact with H via phone. Even though we are separated, I am still practicing plan A whenever I talk to him or am around him (birthday parties, etc.) You are right, my marriage is over. He has replaced me and once our divorce is final (and hers) they are going to get married. Moving on with my life is what I have to do and I am trying to accomplish that but every once in a while i get thrown a curve ball....this was one of them. thanks for the response and I will pray for strength!

Hi L6, That is a good word to describe this whole situation...sickening! I truly believe what goes around comes around too! I can't wait to see what fate has in store for them!

Lucious - Thanks! I do try to remember the sun will come up tomorrow...most days it works. Then there are days like yesterday and today!

Once & Again - How true...it is almost as painful as discovery day! My heart goes out to you knowing that you went through this too. It is soooo painful. I can't even imagine who awkward it must be for the kids (all of them were friends..our sons were best friends as were my youngest daughter and her only daughter). I will do my best to put on my happy face when they get home. Thanks for sharing your story with me...it helps to know that my H is not alone with being an insensitive creature. As for reminders of me at our cabin, Julie is so oblivious and in her own little fantasy world, she won't even notice. I had a great time at lunch w/ my mom. We went shopping at the outlet malls after lunch. Great afternoon and great way to keep my mind off of everything.

Thanks again!
BH

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bh,

I feel for you, I am sorry that this is happening. They do these things to impress the kids, "see nothings changed, dad's fun" it's sad!!!They have to work so hard to impress their own kids.

I was having a hard time too with my marriage being over, I didn't want to believe it, I had faith that things would be put back together, they're not. I ended up with a counselor and I had to make a list of the thing that I would stop doing concerning my marriage and my husband. It has really helped!!! I am a care taking type person and I was still taking care of STBX. It has helped with detaching, probably helped that I had surgery yesterday and nothin notta from him.

Got to go surgery went great, the 3 hour car ride wasn't too bad, just took my pain pills so will sleep for awhile now!!!

Don't ever worry about having a pity part here, just make sure you don't turn into a week long bash!!! OK!!

Dawn

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Hi Dawn,
I am so happy that your surgery went well! I was worried about you! Thanks for the support. It is so hard to move on, but you and the rest of our friends at MB will help us get through this. I hope your recovery goes smoothly! Hugs to you Dawn!
BH

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It sounds to me like you are feeling resentful (understandably) that your kids don't seem to get the fact that playing "happy family" is terribly hurtful to you. If you are trying to hide the fact that you are hurt from your children, I think that is a mistake. If you are successful at hiding it, which seems unlikely, it will just get worse. Your children are plenty old enough to understand how wrong their father's relationship with the OW is, and I think it is important to be honest with them about how you feel.

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I'll be the dissenting voice here as it relates to the kids.

You are understandably hurt and angry. However, the kids cannot be asked to take sides. They will be harmed much more by that; guilt, confusion.

After all, no matter what happens, their father is still their father, their mother still their mother. Always.

They cannot be put in a position where their father invites them on vacation, and they have to think; how will mom feel about this? and decide based on that. Not fair to THEM.

I believe it would be better for you to try to internalize THEIR needs, fears, confusion, and desire to please. After all, I'm sure that they try to please you as well.

Would you accept that they decide if they do something with you based on what their father might feel?

I am truly sorry for your situation, really I am, but please don't transmit that to your children; they deserve better. Your H perhaps doesn't, but he will get what is coming to him without enlisting the children to help do it.

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Thanks Nellie and Spacecase,
I am trying desperately to hide the fact that going w/ them on a "family" trip is devasting to me. My sister agrees w/ you, Nellie, that I should tell them exactly how I am feeling. Spacecase, what you said makes so much sense too. That is exactly the way I feel I have to handle this situation and why. I am so confused! For now, I will keep quiet and see what transpires. Thanks for your advice and comments. I appreciate it. Gives me a lot to think about!
BH

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Hi Space,
I just re-read your reply and just wanted to emphasize to you that I vented here and not to my kids. They have no idea how upset I am. Thanks again for your post, I appreciate your advice!
BH

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Dear BH,

I certainly understand your pain. Kinda like shoving poop in your face. The WS did that to us when he left me to take our son to the emergency hospital (asthma attack) so he could leave on a trip with the Ow to Yosemite. YUCK!!!

But here's the catcher......while in his favorite place (we used to go there every couple of years), he started crying. Later I read e-mails between them and she tried to cover over the fact that his moodiness basically ruined their vacation. But she did acknowledge it. Yea, they laughed some, did the dirty deed, went shopping, had room service a even a couple glasses of wine but later he said he did not really enjoy it because many of the places where they went, he saw us or remembered us being there with him.

YES! Made an impact and didn't even lift a finger. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

May the same happen on his trip. May the kids remind him of the memories. Let Mz. Julie over come that obstacle.

JMHO,
L.

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Wow, Orchid, that would be awesome! I surely hope that happens w/ H! They will be home on Saturday. I hope they will talk to me about their vacation. I don't think I will ask them about it...maybe just gently guide the discussion??? Anyway...I am glad your H saw the light! It give me a little bit of hope!
Thank L.
BH

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by brokenhearted:
<strong>Thanks Nellie and Spacecase,
I am trying desperately to hide the fact that going w/ them on a "family" trip is devasting to me. My sister agrees w/ you, Nellie, that I should tell them exactly how I am feeling. Spacecase, what you said makes so much sense too. That is exactly the way I feel I have to handle this situation and why. I am so confused! For now, I will keep quiet and see what transpires. Thanks for your advice and comments. I appreciate it. Gives me a lot to think about!
BH</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">brokenhearted,

I have to agree with Spacecase on this one. I think that talking to the kids about it will only make them DEFENSIVE about their dad. They will view it as an attack on their dad and it will only serve to drive a wedge between you and them. I know it's hard to hold back your feelings, but please don't bring them into this, it's not about them.

I feel so bad for you, BH. This is part and parcel of betrayal that just keeps on giving. I hope you can find something in your life that will divert you away from this slow suicide. It will get better, I promise you.

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Thanks ML...I hope you are right and it gets better soon. I can't take it any more. I feel like I am going to burst. When they get home Saturday, I will do my very best to put on a happy face. My sister thinks I am wrong. She is trying to convince me to tell them exactly how I feel. I can't seem to make her understand why I can't do that right now. All I can do is what I think is right at the time. I just wish they hadn't gone to our summer home. He brought her there over our anniversary weekend too. Of course, that was before every thing was out in the open so they were alone. As Libbie said....thank God I am no longer with the kind of person who would do these things! He is not the person I married and loved for so many years.

thanks again Melody
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If I remember correctly, you said in a post after the home invasion episode that your daughter discussed with you how you felt about her going over to talk to Julie, and you gave her no hint that you were not ok with that. I think it is critically important to be absolutely honest with your children. If they find out later that you really were not ok with them going, they are going to feel betrayed by you - and they will, eventually, figure it out, or they will read these posts, or someone, like your sister, will tell them - I am actually shocked that they haven't already realized it. We are not talking about little kids who don't know what adultery is.

It is not just that he invited them on vacation. They are not being asked not to see their father. The point is that it is hurtful for them to go to a vacation home that has sentimental value for their mother when the OW is there. I think it is VERY important that they learn to consider other people's feelings before acting. Of course they should take into account their mother's feelings before deciding to do something like this - at what point does it become so not okay that the children should realize, or be told, that it is hurtful? Never? What if he took them and the OW to where he and brokenhearted had honeymooned? What if he decided to marry the OW in the same wedding chapel where they had married? Wouldn't you expect the kids to be sensitive enough to tell him no way? The children SHOULD be encouraged to think before they stomp on someone's feelings, to NOT just think about what they feel like doing. Life is NOT all about them and what they want regardless of the impact their actions have on other people.

There is no conflict here, no reason for them to get defensive. It is perfectly possible for children to know that their father is doing something very, very wrong, while still loving him. What if he had beaten his wife - should they still not "take sides" because their father is always their father? It is perfectly reasonable for them to remind their father that when he does something like take the OW to their parent's summer home, he is being insensitive and that they will not participate.

<small>[ August 22, 2002, 11:14 PM: Message edited by: Nellie1 ]</small>

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Hi Brokenhearted:

Although I know it's hard to believe that your WH could be so cruel as to take the OW and your children to your summer home on vacation, I believe that this kind of "substitution" of one woman for another is pushing...forcing the situation to be what he wants it to be right now...put the kids and OW together in a familar situation...an easy way to ease the OW into their lives. But the problem is...it is forcing...and I'll bet that none of them will really enjoy it. Even to himself the WH is trying to make a success of the affair...it has to succeed to be worth the damage he has done to his family.

My WH and I ran a business together and when the A came out, I left him to deal with everything on his own...well, he brought in OW to fill in the gap (and to keep an eye on her)...but you know what...she wasn't me...she couldn't fill my shoes...it was the first of many miscomparisons he was to have between us...and eventually the contrast broke up the relationship. But it took time...so that's why I'm urging you not to give up...let time do it's work.

Meanwhile, I don't think you need to place the kids in the middle of all these any more then you can help...they are going through their own nightmares...don't make it harder on them...kids are smart...they sense how you are feeling...they know what is right and wrong...be strong for them.

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Hi brokenhearted,
Sorry this is another tough time you are going through, but I'm sure you will get through this one just like you have gotten through all the rest.

I have to agree with buffy and Spacecase to leave your teens out of it. They probably will love their dad regardless--kids love their parents for WHO they are not for what they DO even if they are rotten losers. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

When they get bold enough to confront their dad, they will, even if it takes years, I too believe it should be their call. If they ask you, then tell them but to just dump your emotional pain on them would probably be too much for them.

Even if your sister did tell them that their father is a cheating scumbag, they probably would resent their aunt?!?!

Adult emotions are just that. Kids should not have to carry the burden of adult emotions, just my thoughts... ((((HUGS))))

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There would be no point in the aunt telling the kids that he is cheating - they are well aware of that already. If the aunt tells them that their going with him to the family vacation spot hurt their mother's feelings, the logical question for them to ask would be, "Why did she let us think it was ok when it really wasn't?"

If this were happening to the family of a friend, and your kids were invited to go along with theirs on such a vacation, wouldn't you let them know that that would be hurtful to your friend, the BS?

If your H robbed a bank, and then offered to take the kids on a trip to Disneyworld with the proceeds, would you tell them that was ok? Telling your children that something is wrong or hurtful is NOT "putting them in the middle." It is a parent's responsibility to be honest with their kids, and to attempt to teach them the difference between right and wrong - and the boundaries of right and wrong do not shift just because the wrongdoer happens to be related to them.

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