Wow Blondblossom! great post.

GC I will pray for you.

GC,
I'm SO sorry for what you're going through! I read this the other night, and just couldn't come up with a good reply at that point, but you have been in my prayers.
It is hard to let God take care of things, but at this point you have to back off, and let God do his work. You have done everything humanly possible, now give God a chance to show you his glory! Time is on our side, and it does sound like just a lot of babble coming from your WH!
Who knows what the OW is doing at this point, pressuring him, etc. Sounds like he will run back to you...I think when this is all over for you yourWH will appreciate your loyalty and endurance and will bless you for believing in him.
My WH has been quiet this weekend, I've only talked with him once, so I'm in the dark about what he's doing with the OW. Patience!
Keep us updated.
Prayers for you,
KK

Hey going crazy - I hope you are doing better today - I don't think that antidepressants make you not face reality... I just think it makes you handle the situation better - I mean basically how much can one person handle. My husband wants to be my best friend which you know what somedays I am ok with and other days I am like why should I even give him the satisfaction... I mean I know my road is going to get a whole lot bumpier because I am going to court on 9-18 but I have to do what is right for me now - I think what everyone is trying to tell you - is to just think about yourself now - make yourself happy - don't give up on him but move on and then maybe he will come and maybe he won't but either way - You are going to be ok.... So how are you doing today???? Have you talked to your husband???

thank you so much blondblossom, Seahorse, KK, maw64.

blondblossom, all of your posts just make me tear up, you know exactly how I feel.

I sat down last night, and looked back on our marriage, the good times and the bad times. I looked back at how controlling I was, I really was, I thought of 20 awful situations off the top of my head. Maybe I'm in a fog, but I seriously cannot remember him doing LBing without me instigating it.
And then I looked at everything he had done for me, and felt awful, I truly did not give him the gratitude and admiration he deserved.
I know that is not an excuse for his behaviour, but I had to take a good look at myself, even Steve told me I was being controlling, LBing with disrespectful behavior towards WH. That any bit of Plan Aing I was doing was hidden by this attitude, and probably pushed him away.

So after I thought about all of these situations, I wrote a letter to him (yes, I know some of you want to kill me), but it felt like the right thing to do. I needed to get some of this stuff off of my chest, it was a 5 page letter in Word. No where in there did I ask him to come home. In fact I expressed some regrets, some thank yous, but told him I wanted him to be happy. He sent me two responses from this letter, one to my home email account from where I sent it, one from my work email account:

6:38AM </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> We can talk later, I just do not think I can do this anymore. As much as it hurts me as well, I do not think I have it in me to fight. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">8:52AM </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I got your note, Thank you, We can talk about it later. I will try to write
my feelings as well.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">At least he did not mention divorce, it made me feel good to get those things off my chest, I did not plead or beg to him, I just told him how I felt about my behavior.

<small>[ September 03, 2002, 01:10 PM: Message edited by: going_crazy ]</small>

Hi going_crazy:

I know it's hard but as WS we need to learn to let a certain amount of BS roll off our backs...because if we don't then it eats away at us and destroys a lot of positive work we've done on ourselves. A lot of what is said and done by WS is reflective of what is going on in that relationship...not necessarily what is going on in the marriage relationship. And so, we need to wait, for the time that the emphasis is once again on the possibility of restoring the marriage.

BS mistakenly ( and I've done it) try to argue and lecture their WS as to what is right...and you know what?....they don't care....they are only thinking about the OW right now. So waiting is the only option (and a good Plan A at the same time)...waiting until the WS is ready to accept that the affair is over, that it was all a fantasy, that that OP is not the "soulmate" they thought they were....but this all takes time (more for some WS, less for others) and it might not ever happen...and that is the eventuality that you must prepare yourself for...the necessity of moving on.

Once you reach that point, you have released your WS's power over you...including the power to hurt you...because you can see that you will survive and live on. And the power to take back your life is healing.

Now I say all this because I've been where you are, have heard all the WS scripts, lived numerous attempted recoveries (where WS was merely having difficulties with OW)...but until he was ready for it all to be over...then nothing we can do will convince him of it. But that time did come (and my WS was as adamant as yours at the beginning that OW was what he wanted).

Yes, it is hard...and for some the outcome is not what they wanted...but you come out of this...whatever the outcome...a stronger person.

WS is home now...really home...and I'm not afraid he is ever going to leave again...I can feel that this is where he wants to be...and it a way it took the experience with the OW to make him realize that. But I've also changed...I can take whatever comes...and I think he realizes that...and he realizes that I am here and have been here through all this not because I had no other options but because I believed.

If you believe then bide your time...work on yourself...keep yourself above the frey as much as possible...begin the possess of building a new life...and let your WS find his way back to you.

GC -- I've been gone all weekend and just fly back home this morning. My first order of business is to catch up with you and Seahorse. I am really sorry to hear what your WS said at the start of the weekend, but am more encouraged by the recent email replys.

It takes a tremendous amount of strength while you are in pain to look at what you did that contributed to the unhappiness in the marriage. I too wrote a letter apologizing for what I thought I had done. Thankfully, I started counseling with Jennifer H. back in March and she helped me see what I had been doing (disrespectful judgments mostly) and that the letter in and of itself would not be convincing -- it had to be a real change and demonstrated through action. All of the "educating" I tried to do in the first few months was doing me harm and not bringing me any closer to my goals of a) learning what I did wrong and trying to change it and b) letting my WH see that I had love for him.

Your pain right now may seem insurmountable, but I believe there is still hope -- if you can be patient and you can pull back and you can do the best plan A when you do see him.

Every week I think "why am I continuing to do this". It is too painful. And, every week I remind myself that I have made changes for me and how I will be in any relationship and that to lose hope right now will just leave me with regrets. I need to know that I did everything humanly possible to show the love and gratitude that maybe I didn't do very well for a long time. I need to know that I gave it everything that I have -- I can't control what WS does, but I can guide my own choices and I chose to do this. I can always chose to stop, but I don't think you do that until you are really ready to give up and go to plan B and accept divorce. You WS may have stated he plans on filing, but I do not sense that you are really ready to give up. It ain't over til it's over.

GC; you've got a good support group here, and you're getting very good advice. I did just want to drop in, catch up, and let you know I'm rooting for you as well! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

GC, I have been out of town on business for the last week or more.. wow, alot of changes in a short period of time, you have great advise, you are in my prayers...stay strong.. Some time ago someone here on MB wrote the definations of:
letting go
giving up
moving on

Letting go does not mean you have to give up or move on. I will try to find the post.

Hang in there, things will get better.

Dave

Buffy:
I am so happy that your marriage survived this. How did you know when it was for real, did you ever have to go to Plan B? I am trying to concentrate on myself, take a deep look within and try to get rid of the ugliness. I can’t change him, and its an LB to try to. I’m scared that I am running out of time, especially if he files, then it will only be 60 days.

Unsureheart:
I hope your time away was enjoyable, you could probably tell from my posts that I was sinking in my self-pity and depression. I have to look at the positive on his replies, at least he did not mention divorce, but I also know not to get my hopes up either.
Steve told me last week when I counseled that I was trying to “educate” WH. And I felt like it too, I felt like I was telling him how he feels instead of listening. I had looked at Lostva’s post where she had written a letter to her WH once a week mentioning good times past and present. I look back and remember all the wonderful things he has done for me, and I never showed appreciation and gratitude, just told him I didn’t want something, he spent too much money. Now looking back, I realized that he wanted to make me happy and this was his way of showing it. I just had to clear up issues in the past to be able to move forward, not for sure which direction, but at least forward.
How did your husband react to your letter?
I still have hope for our marriage, especially after hearing others say that their WH said the same thing, I am going back to my modified Plan A/B, Steve agreed with that approach. Detach, do not pursue, let him come to me, and Plan A if he does.

Spacecase:
thanks for checking in, you know I am rooting for you as well!!

Davepr:
I’ve been wondering where you were!! Glad to see you are back, hope your trip was well. Yes, my roller coaster has been very active over the past week. I do appreciate what you said about letting go, I am trying to let go and let God take over, but I refuse to give up on this marriage.

G_C,

I think it was ok to write to your H an express your feelings. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> It's a good thing when we think about ourselves and when we come clear with ourselves and when we learn from the mistakes we have made.
Don't feel so bad about yourself, making mistakes is human. It's just a good step being able to talk this out and come clear with yourself. I would leave it to this and not expect anything in return.
Admitting past mistakes and inappropriate behavious is for "yourself" and not to convince your H to change his mind.
Even though he has responded don't expect anything!!! From what he wrote back, he seems to feel that you want to hear something from his side.
I will try to explain what I think.
When he read what you wrote, it really pounded into his mind. There was no OW in the background "babbling". HE was reading it on his own and from what he replyed he doesn't know what he should do or say.
He feels "weak". If he was truely happy with his situation he would of been able to answer spontaniously but he couldn't. You surely have gotten him thinking.
But whatever you do, leave it to this!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't expect anything and concentrate on yourself.
He might talk to OW about your letter and if so, you will know!!!!! He will for sure get pressure from her side!!!!!!!!!!!!She will be "babbling" and he will then feel strong and he might even tell you to stop writting.
Take notice of HIS first reaction and this tells you he feels very insecure about himself. He thinks he doesn't have the strength to fight!.

You have told him what your feelings are and he is for sure "thinking". He will probably have the urge to talk to someone about this!!!! Now it is up to you and what you do.
I don't know what SH would say, but I feel that it would be the right time to PLan B.
He will then have to deal with OW "babbling" and he will be thinking about what you wrote.

OW might be telling your H that you wrote this to get him back and that you are doing everything to get him back and to split them up. But what will she tell him if you PLAN B?
This will not make any sence to her. She's expecting you to pressure and she's expecting you to slasch back. What will she say if this doesn't happen????
Nothing that OW has/is telling your H will happen.
If you have realized that your reaction in the past was always to "pressure" this would definately show a change in your behaviour and get your H thinking.

OW only knows you from what your H has told her. If he has told her that you are very controlling she was able to react towards him and of course show herself in a way that makes him feel that she is not controlling.
Hope this isn't tooo complicated and I hope you're understanding me.
OW knows what turns your H on and off. Think she is a "woman!" You know what woman are capable of doing and "men" hardly really read between the lines, nor are they really "aware" of the tactics that woman do on them to get what they want.

As we say here: She's giving him "sugar" when he reacts as she wants him to and "vinegar" when he reacts "insecure".
She is definately pressuring him, but in return when he reacts how she wants him too, she fullfills his Needs!!! She is directing him into the direction that she wants him to go and he isn't seeing this!!!!
She might be telling him to look at you and if he really wants that!!! She can only talk to him about the bad things of your past, the bad sides. She doesn't want him to think about the "good" times that you had. She will remind him that you are "controlling" and whatever.

What will she tell him if you "back off?" and PLAN B???
I don't believe that OW feels very secure. She knows that you are there and she wants your H!!! She knows that your H is very insecure and she knows what to say to give him a secure feeling. She's scared!!!! Believe me, she is!!!! She wants him to get divorced as soon as possible. She wants this and she's explaining to him why he should want this too!!!!

Think G_C. You know as a woman how easy it is at times to convince a man when we really want something, don't you????
It's just more difficult when it comes to "love". I believe that we can only feel truely devoted to one person. Men tend to think that when sex is good and talking is good, it's love.
The woman that is sharing this with them can make them believe almost anything. They don't read between the lines until there is a break in the cycle.

I'm so sorry that this is getting so long, but I truely hope that this might help you. It's what I have experienced.

When my H was having his affair, he told OW many things about me. (negetive) so OW knew what turnen my H off and of course she was able to react in the opposite way.
This made him feel safe with her and he believed that she was absolutely the opposite from me. He wasn't aware that she was reacting to what he told her.

He told her I was controlling so she reacted the opposite.
He told her I wasn't happy, so she acted happy.
He told her that I yelled when I got mad so she acted very quiet and smooth
He told her if I ever found out about his affair, I'd freak OUT and the situation will be very UGLY!!!!!!!! So OW got prepared for this and told him she would go through this with him and help him through!

But G_C when I found out about his A, I didn't freak out and nothing became "UGLY!!!"
I reacted completely different and neither of them understood what was going on.
OW was prepared to fight on my H side when I found out and it didn't happen.
Ow had NO words, she was baffled!!! She only knew the things he had told her and couldn't tell him anything because my reaction didn't make sence from what she knew about me.
If I would of freaked out and yelled and whatever she would of been able to react and influence his decision. But she had no way to react.
I was smooth and understanding.
I was acting happy.
I was not controlling.
I was not yelling.
I was not pressuring.
I was listening.
I was there for him and helping him whereever I could.
We were even having the greatest sex that we had!!!

So this way I broke the cycle.

OW is expecting you to react the way you did in the past. She doesn't know you, she just thinks she knows how you will react and she is telling this to your H. Because it seems to have happened in the past and you H seems to believe that what OW says is true he thinks she is the right person.

What will he be thinking when she too gets "confused" and doesn't know what is going on because you are backing off completely and living your life? What will she then be able to tell him????She might think that "you have given up". She might think that she has "won!"
Yes she might think this and she will feel secure. She will feel safe.She will no longer feel scared. This will probably happen, yes.

But this will be a matter of time and then her true colours will show!!!!!!!!!!!

Back off and let your H live through this. He'll be thinking of the words you wrote and he will see your reaction. He will be dealing with the OW "babbling" and he have to deal with many questions that OW cannot answer. It is up to him if he wants to live his own life and make his own decisions. It is up to your H to find out what he wants without being told by "anyone!"

No matter what you decide to do, do it for your wellbeing. Do it and learn that this is a good thing to do. Backing off and not pressuring in the right situation is always a good thing.

take care of yourself
hugs
bb

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

BB: I totally agree with you, I have not spoken to my husband since he responded back to my emails. He even sent me another one this morning asking me how my doctors appointment went yesterday. Since he seemed to not want an action out of his emails yesterday I did not respond, but I will probably just send a quick one back (but not right away) responding how my appt. went.

Steve did tell me to Plan A, but detach, kind of where I was before, where I let him come to me, I did not pursue, initiate any R talk, but let him come to me and Plan A'd when he did, but acted like a friend.

You are right, he is probably expecting me to contact him, and retell him everything in that letter, but I won't. I hope I left a positive impression with him and I am going to keep it that way, I want him to feel how it is to not talk to me for a while. Maybe he will miss me, maybe he won't.

G_C;

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> you sound as if you are abit better. I wouldn't in your case tell him anything about your doctors appointment.I wouldn't send him any notes at the moment. Get him thinking!!!!!!!!
Get him questioning!!!!!!! Get him wondering what is going on.
Remember he just told you a little while ago that he wants a divorce ASAP!!!!!!!!!

Just stay silent and kind if he contacts you but I wouldn't do any writtting anymore.

Get him wondering why you are not answering his email. He will be questioning and he is going to find your reaction different than it used to be, even if it is such a little matter as telling him about your doctors appointment.

Hold back!!!!!!!!

G_C, this is just my opinion, you know your situation much better than I do.

take care
bb

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

thanks, I will do that, I know he is concerned about my drs appt, had a mammogram and breast ultrasound yesterday because I had a lump about a month ago (ended up being an infection in my ducts that antibiotics took care of). I have a family history of breast cancer (mother, her cousin). I will keep him "concerned".

going_crazy:
Actions speak louder than words. I notice that though he filed, he hasn't served you with the papers. What does that tell you?

Hi- GC, Cking in. Any news on his appt with counselor... dont ask though.. let him come to you totally.. not even one word about how it went. OK? I have to get busy and work, there is much to do and drive me crazy in spreadsheets here today and a lot that is being loaded on me... all very detailed and tedious that is not at all me... OH BOY... anyway... It keeps me busy... concentrate on work and you , that will make you feel better.

hugs to you, I am thinking of you.. tonite will be at my first divorcecare class 6-8 with childcare... so I am looking forward to that.

back to my spreadsheets... Honey <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bellevue:
<strong>going_crazy:
Actions speak louder than words. I notice that though he filed, he hasn't served you with the papers. What does that tell you?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That was last year, Mar 01, it dropped out of the courts.
He told me this weekend that he definitely wanted a divorce, pressure from the OW, probably, so he can go on with his life and be with her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Honey:
<strong>Hi- GC, Cking in. Any news on his appt with counselor... dont ask though.. let him come to you totally.. not even one word about how it went. OK? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I haven't responded to his emails, I know he is supposed to see her today unless he cancelled. Hopefully by me not being at his beck and call every time he contacts me will confuse him even more when he sees there. Hopefully he won't be so sure to want me out of his life, but yet again, it could backfire on me too. He may be angry that I have not responded.

I'm not going to ask how his therapy went, I will let him tell me, I just hope she is professional enough.

Going Crazy - You sound much better - I hope not only for your sake that she is a professional - but that she also wacks him up the side of the head to knock some sense into him... Wouldn't that be nice....You are doing great somewhat letting it go and not harping on it - and I bet you feel 100% better not all freaked out - You know someday (I hope) our lives are all going to be back normal - with or without our wayward spouses - we are what matters after all of the crap we have been through - do you have any kids?? I may have asked this before but I don't remember???

Maw64: Thanks, I do feel a little better, I'm no good to anyone including myself sitting in a deep depression, I can't change him or the situation, only myself.

No, we do not have children. Something that he said to me last week that really hurt was that he was afraid of the idea of having a family with me because he knew he would do it again. But the idea of a family with her doesn't scare him as much, ugghh. They don't even know the sense of family, he says that he feels welcome by her family, but they don't even know he's married!! How much would they welcome him then??

taking a break from spreadsheet hell... Hey I did page Jim yesterday... and he paged me back but I did not answer.

stay strong......
Honey