9/10/02
Thankyou so much for this thread it is exactly what i have been searching for in my efforts to bring some resolution to my problems.The type of a my h had was exactly like the one you described .it was a secret other life which continued on and off for more than 30 yrs entirely without my knowledge.

it was the classic trade in--ten years into the marriage 2 years after the birth of the second child .

He met a fascinating younger model 15 years his junior and was swept off his feet. It meant he could escape back into adolescence all fun and no responsibility .

He was extremely careful and limited his activities to the afternoons when he was supposedly working.They both agreed that should they be found out then that would be the end of the affair this,of course,gave them the incentive to be very secretive.This part of the affair came to an end without my knowledge in the 1980s when she returned to her own country with her husband.By the time the 90s arrived she was divorced and looking for a new partner.

She returned here for a holiday and, as a friend of the family ,invited any one of us who might be passing through to visit her.Since she lived in a capital city it was easy for him to make a stopover when bound for other destinations this he did for the whole of the 90s.(I wonder how many stopover affairs there are out there.It is the perfect opportunity and hard to detect)

I did not become suspicious until Christmas 2000 when he said he was going to take a holiday in the country where she lives. For the first time I was free to travel with him so I said I will come with you .He told me I was not invited and that he wanted a holiday by himself. We have had separate holidays on other occasions for various reasons so although I was by now very suspicious I thought I wont make waves at this stage..

As you all know once suspicion is aroused the clues are coming thick and fast . I kept a a very careful track of what was happening including an on-line credit card trail which finally took me to an out of town meal for two followed by one hotel room.I was now 100% sure and confronted him on the next occasion that he cheerfully rang home.

He admitted to the affair and,after consulting with ow , they did as they had originally agreed to do all those years before and finished it at that point.(It was about to end in any case my h had decided it had finally run its course)

She was the one who said no further contact and even wrote me a cute little note apologising for all the pain she had caused but minimising and trivialising the affair by claiming that initially it had been just a little bit exra for both of them However in the 90s it had become,for her, much more serious .She being on her own. Her search for a suitable partner had obviously settled on my h.

It had become more like a another marriage [as the book says a double life] There were regular letters and phone calls but face to face (so to speak) was only once a year for about a week or ten days.Her plan A was working very well and I think she was quietly moving into plan B which was, of course, to get him all to herself.

Unfortunately for her my husband is very resistant to suggestion and she was firmly fixed in his mind as a mistress. That being the only role he could assign to her in his life.Their relationship needed by this time to progress into reality The fantasy had worn thin.

Now that the secret was out in the open they reluctantly agreed to go their separate ways and get on with their real lives. The affair is finally at an end .

The problem is how cope with 30 lost years which for me have to be re-assesssed to accommodate the invisible cuckoo I really liked the metaphor of the invisible elephant ,mine was the invisible cuckoo meaning to say there was an uknown presence taking a ride or camping out in the marriage as one writer described it.To begin with I didnt fully appreciate what a destructive and damaging phenomenon an affair actually is. After a great deal of research i can now appreciate the full catastrophe.

My H wants to forgive and forget and get on with our lives as if nothing had ever happened but I need to know exactly what it is that I am forgiving and forgetting .

it is very hard to forgive and impossible to forget a betrayal of this magnitude My h is remorseful but only because he sees the levels of my despair as I see half a lifetime disappear never to be returned.He will say anything to appease me but I am after the truth- not all that mealy mouthed **** about how he is so sorry to see me so upset.He doesnt want to acknowledge the true damage that the affair has caused .As you so rightly say he doesnt get it.

My h first tried to blame me for every thing .Our marriage had been fraught with vitriolic rows usually about nothing. He would come home from work and within ten seconds of coming through the door would have found some reason to take violent exception to something that was not to his liking. untidiness,toys on the floor,dinner not ready there was plenty to choose from.I was often tired and dispirited so i gave as good as I got .His childish tantrums I took to be some sort of excuse to take out the days work frustrations on someone else .

I lost respect for him and resigned myself to the fact that I was catering to three children the biggest baby being my h.I did not realise that far from being a harmless baby he had all the attributes of a cunning wilful and vindictive adolescent.a fully paid up bully and I was a fully paid up victim.

The rows continued year after year until they became ingrained into our relationship the children grew up in a household fraught with tension They have both told me that they were glad to leave home to get away from the atmosphere

Having searched for as much detail as I could gather, I then began to consider the personalities involved.In an earlier diatribe addressed to O/W (and never sent)I had used the word NARCISSISTIC.I thought I would check its meaning on the internet and to my surprise i found not just a dictionary quotation but a vast body of work devoted to its definition in terms of a fully developed personality disorder .The characteristics describe the attitudes of most W/S.You could basically say that it is what used to be called a spoilt child the official list of symptoms are

1 A sense of self importance
2 Has no empathy for the feelings of others
3 Preoccupied with the aquisition of power
4 Requires unlimited attention and admiration
5 A sense of entitlement
6 Is interpersonally exploitative
7 BeIleve themselves to be special and are envious of the success of others
9 Often arrogant

The cause of the problem can be either too much love and attention as children or too little.Being brought up by one or more narcissistic parents doesnt help either.


They have fragile self esteem, are emotionally immature and spend a great deal of their lives creating situations where they can be the centre of attention.It maybe that the need for attention is inversely proportional to emotional maturity ,therefore anyone indulging in attention seeking behaviour is telling you how emotionally immature they are

A narcissist has difficulty in recognizing the needs and feelings of others and is dismissive contemptuous and impatient when others try to share or discuss their concerns or problems.They are also oblivious to the hurtfulness of their behaviour,show emotional coldness ,exhibit envy when others receive recognition and are are quick to blame others when their needs and expectations are not met

At the same time the n feeds on popularity and can be very charming especially to people who can be useful thus the Jekyll and Hyde nature The street angel and the house devil

They have only one script ,their life is a movie they are the star and everyone else is cast in a supporting role .Needless to say keeping this kind of show on the road is highly stressful .Someone has to take responsibility for keeping reality at bay .

This role is mainly assigned to the nearest and dearest who are expected to absorb their unwanted negative emotions.So whenever the narcissist is upset they he can transfer all those feelings to someone else causing someone else to be more angry and upset than he is.This temporarily gives a sense of power and relief .

The W/S is meeting his narcissistic needs by having an affair it enables him to run away from adult responsibilty and re experience all the highs of being a teenager.To be really comfortable Rupert Bear needs a home to go to at the end of his adventures .It is the role of the B/S to provide a safe haven and to take care of all the dreary responsibilities of real life.

Did you ever see Rupert cleaning the toilet or doing the shopping?

An affair can truly be called a conceit. it is the ultimate attention seekers dream come true especially when two narcissistic people are locked in isolation mutually admiring one another. Each is mirroring the other as they search endlessly for perfection.A narcissist has no concept of himself and can only see himself through the eyes of another.He is an actor who never leaves the stage and is completely reliant on the approval of others for his own sense of self worth.

I am sure that by now you would have recognized someone that you know The existence of this phenomenon has been recognized as the ME generation

There is something of the narcissist in all of us but some have the insight to appreciate that this behaviour is self defeating it is hard to find another person who will love you as much as you love yourself.

The question that many of us have to answer is how to deal with behaviour which accords no respect for others .Having an affair shows no respect for the marriage partner who is betrayed ,no respect for the OW because it offers no commitment and no self respect for the perpetrator.

The cause of behaviour I have read can be gauged by the reaction of the recipient ,if you feel irritated the behaviour is attention seeking , if you feel angry then the behaviour is power seeking and if you feel hurt then the motive is revenge .

There is no doubt that all b/s feel devastated .Does this mean that the motivation behind an a is revenge and the w/s shows all the characteristics of a bully who is punishing the b/s for not meeting his unrealistic needs?

H20--

I here you loud and clear--been there, done that, got the t-shirt. I could have recited your story verbatim, no kidding.

(Today I am so angry with my husband that I can't stand it. We had a fight last night because I pruchased some vitamins over the internet--yes, you are wondering why that would be a reason to start a fight. I am wondering too.

I wish that I could just pack my bags and go some where--however, I know that I would just be coming back. To a huge mess.)

Anyway, H20, what did you do? What are you doing now? How are you coping? Is your husband doing anything different?

I am sorry that this has happened to you. What a letdown, after 30 years, you should now be comfortable together and enjoying yourselves, instead of discovering horrible secrets.

LOL--You must be English--you're two days ahead of me! if it's 10 Oct there!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Spacecase:
<strong>This has been on my mind quite a bit lately...whether eventually the WS really gets the part about how having an A FURTHER damaged the R while it was going on, whether the deception, lies and forced secrecy and reserve they had to have reduced intimacy even further than it was before the A, whether they ever realize the many, many times the BS tripped over that huge, invisible elephant in the middle of the floor without ever knowing what it was and without ever having been able to figure out WHAT in the world he/she was tripping on...do they? Do they ever really get this part?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Absolutely, absolutely. In my case this elephant was around two years in the room and I regularly bumped into it and could not explain what was happening. Whatever I did, WW got the wrong end of the stick. In hind sight, it all makes perfect sense, but it drove me to desperation at that time.

How ya doing?

H2O - just read your story. Wow, is all I can say. Most affairs here are in the 1-2 years ball park but your WH one is way off the richter scale.