Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#1053134 01/28/03 01:34 AM
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 1,101
S
Member
OP Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 1,101
Dear Friends,

I suppose I would be considered an old timer on this board. I used to post with regularity here in 1999 and 2000. I am about to move into a new phase in my relationship with my wife and I would appreciate your feedback.

I would like to summarize my story so that you know what has happened.

After 16 years of marriage and four children, I found out that my wife was having an affair back in 1998. We had drifted apart and she chose to seek attention in the arms of another man rather than confront me and seek help together. When she did talk to me it wasn’t to tell me of the affair, it was to tell me that she was completely unhappy with our marriage and she wanted out. She listed my faults as a husband which were pretty accurate at the time.

Thankfully, I found this website in April of 1999 and many folks here helped me through some very difficult times. She stayed for the children and I started a Plan A to win her back. Her affair ended in Jan 2001. She no longer has contact with that man and I know she isn’t seeing anyone else at this time either. Over the past four years, I have stuck to my Plan A with hope of having a wonderful marriage. We are good friends and great parent partners. But, we are not lovers.

She told me Friday that she has started seeing a counselor because she is so unhappy. She told her counselor that I am the perfect husband. I am a good father, a good companion, a good financial provider, I giver her loads of affection (hair rubs, back rubs, etc), and so on. I basically meet every need she has except sex. We rarely have sex. She said she enjoys the sex we do have but I don’t meet her desire for more. The interesting thing is that my desire for her is as strong as ever.

I have to disagree with her statement that we were never lovers. We were very passionate before we married and for a while after marriage. When kids came into the picture, sex seemed to be difficult. My counselor helped me realize that my sex problems stemmed from my parents. I grew up in a family where sex was regarded as shameful. Any mention of sex was rpressed. My parents have been married for 50 years, but I rarely saw them show affection toward one another. I hate to focus blame on them, but I can only say that what I learned from them has kept me from being open about sex with my wife. The bright side is that I finally recognized this, the down side is that I learned too late.

Over the past four years I have tried to increase the sexual frequency between us but have failed. A couple of my needs are affection and admiration in order to have a strong sexual desire. My wife doesn’t touch me, kiss me, or even complement me. Its difficult for me to initiate sex when I have no clue that she has any desire for me at all. After all, if she doesn't want to touch me, why would I think she wants to have sex with me? The last time she initiated sex was May of 1997. So, obviously, we are failing at having a sexual relationship. As it stands now, she has no desire for me and in no way does she want to have sex with me. I told her we should try having sex again on a regular basis to become comfortable with each other again and perhaps her desire for me would grow. Since we seem to be more open and honest with each other, I told her that if we work at paying attention to each others needs that we could heal that part of her marriage. She doesn’t think so. She has been told partners that have a good sex life are much more successful at healing other marriage wounds. But, if you never had a good sexual relationship then you never will.

My wife wants us to separate. She is interested in getting counseling together. It’s the first time she has agreed to that in four years. She knows she is jumping into the abyss by wanting to separate. She doesn’t know if she wants to be alone, be with someone else, or be with me for the rest of her life. She doesn’t want to stay because it is the right thing to do, she would only stay if she believes she can not go on without me.

Her counselor has told her it’s a bad idea. She told her that men tend to find another partner much easier that a woman. She is over 40 with four kids so she knows her prospects are dim but she is a very attractive intellegent and funny lady. I know she could find a short term partner I'm not so sure about a long term partner. She is hoping that if we separate she will miss me and realize what I mean to her and then want me back.

I tend to agree with her. Although, what I think will happen is that she will find someone for a short time and frolic in a sexual experience until the man wants to leave. If that happens, I think that will kill what love I have left for her and I won’t want her back. I went through one affair and I know I can not endure another.

I have prepared for this moment for a long time and in the back of my mind I knew it would happen. I’m ready to let her go. In many ways she is already gone. I will miss her friendship. We have a great relationship with each other except for sex. But, I also know it isn’t just me. For a good sexual relationship, you need two willing partners and she just isn't willing. I have no regrets in trying to heal our marriage. The last four years have made me a better man. I know the love I am capable of giving. I know I will be fine.

What I fear most is what this will do to our children. One of my greatest desires was to be an example to our boys of how a husband she love and honor his wife and for my daughter to show her what she should expect from a loving husband. I have failed in that area and it hurts.

My wife is an exceptional mother to our kids. She also thinks I am a wonderful father. I don’t think we will have a problem in sharing parenting while separated. I know it will be difficult but I think we want the best for them.

Well, I’m going on too much. I would like anyone’s opinion about our situation especially if there is any common ground.

Best regards,
SHA

#1053135 01/28/03 01:50 AM
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,284
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,284
SHA,

It has indeed been a long time and I am so sorry you return here with this situation. I really don't know what to say. I suspect her counselor is right it is not the right step, but perhaps it is a necessary step.

I wouldn't be so sure your W won't find someone to love her for life. You did and do. But, those are the chances one makes when separated. I am curious though, why not just file for divorce and move on.

I would think if she is so convinced that you are not the one for her, that this is the logical move. The distance does not make the heart grow fonder.

Frankly, I think your W has other issues, hence her unwillingness to try to improve the sexual side. But, My guess is that if it wasn't sex to little, it would have been sex too much. In another words this is a surrogate for what is really wrong.

You have done a masterful job. You can do no more. Your W obviously isn't worried about the affect of divorce on the children,but she is probably planning on them being with her most of the time. What is your plan with regard to having the children? If you want 50/50, then it needs to start with the separation. I would not be too receptive to the "it is only a separation, we don't need to distrub the children now, so I will keep them and you can come visit, when you can" stuff. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

If you are going to separate make darn sure all of the i's are dotted and t's are crossed. Then she will see what it will be like to be without you. She will also see what the children will go through. There is a need to do this now. Not the death by a thousand cuts.

I must go. I am so sorry you are here SHA. I do hope life treats you better in the future. Some woman is going to be very very lucky to find you.

God Bless,

JL

#1053136 01/27/03 02:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 14,283
K
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 14,283
SHA--

I am so sorry to read all this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My wife wants us to separate. She is interested in getting counseling together. It’s the first time she has agreed to that in four years. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A question...would she be willing to include in a separation agreement a period (6 - 12 months maybe?) of time during which you guys would be separated, yet do the joint counseling, and NOT date others? A controlled separation?

Other than that thought, I haven't any bright ideas. I agree that separating is scary, but I have heard of a few cases where it helps (in fact, someone once posted links to a book on controlled separtaion as a way of healing).

I do agree with JL that you will be fine...if this does lead to divorce, you WILL make someone a great H!

Kathi

#1053137 01/27/03 03:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 82
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 82
I posted earlier about a book called "Should I Stay or Go? by Lee Raffel. In it, you mutually agree to a 'contract' with your wife that details everything about your separation. Time frame, who has the kids when, financial arrangements, dating each other, dating others, counciling, etc. You also agree not to file for divorce or talk to legal council until the agreed upon time frame is over.

I can't say how it will work, since I will just be going into it as of next weekend. However, I am really hopeful. I really think we need some time to work on ourselves before we can work on our marriage.

It is basically designed for people sitting on the fence, kind of like your wife and I. I can really relate to her situation. I had an EA that made me question if I ever really loved my wife. I also learned of some deception on my wife's part in our early years that makes it all the more concievable that I was not in love. I won't get into that all in your thread here, but just to say that she is going through a really tough time and maybe she needs some time to look inside herself. Since she is willing to go to counciling, she very well may be open to trying something like this.

#1053138 01/27/03 04:45 PM
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,798
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,798
Hi SHA,
I, too, am sorry you're back for this reason.

I have been separated, 7 times over 21 months. I'm in agreement with JL in that if you separate, you do it with visitation schedules with the kids. I think she should be the one to leave the home and pay the child support. And, depending on the kids' ages (like middle school & older), let them know this is what your W wants, you are/were committed to the marriage.

I think the "mom & dad can't get along and have decided together, etc" is less than honest and it scares kids, if they don't get along, are they out?

Most separations do not lead to reconciliation. The only benefit I found was that in our case it decreased the household tension and I was able to Plan A better, given short periods of time rather than long.

Since there has been a long period of trying to make this work, or at least living together, I also would suggest that if you don't actually go to Plan B, that you set up some boundaries for your household space, especially if you are able to be the one who stays in the home. Since she wants the separation, then she shouldn't view the house as a place she can come & go at will. She should call first, not be there if you or the kids are not there, she shouldn't be using her key, if she gets a key at all.

I just don't think that you want to be in the position of fall-back guy. But, Plan A is also an option. It seems she already sees your good qualities and if she doesn't value them now, I don't know that a separation will lead her to value them in a timely manner that doesn't completely drain your lovebank.

We reconciled after I served the D papers, 6 months after my 18 month Plan A ended. After all that time of thinking he wanted a divorce, my H realized he truly didn't. I didn't much care that he wanted to come back...once the BS has the drained lovebank, it's a much more difficult reconciliation.

But, when we did reconcile, my H was a full partner in the process, something he hadn't been in the failed tries.

My main thought is your wife needs to realize this is serious and may be the end of the marriage and the end of your good qualities being available to her in anything other than as a co-parent.

#1053139 01/27/03 06:50 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,166
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,166
SHA: Just to let you know, the "fact": </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> But, if you never had a good sexual relationship then you never will. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">is false. My wife and I never had a good sexual relationship, until after DDay. It didn't happen all at once, but it is happening At 15 months post DDay, it has gone from "mediocre at best" pre-DDay to really good, right now. Heading to great, God willing. A book that helped me was "The Sexual Male" by Hart. A book that is helping us is: "Passionate Marriage", by Snarch. Good luck

#1053140 01/27/03 08:28 PM
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 203
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 203
SHA...
Long time, no see...
I think Kam has an excellent idea. Experience the separation, but agree to date/see NO ONE.. I believe this will allow you both the opportunity to make sure that this is for the right reasons. Although she might have a different agenda, I think it would be wise if you could get this to happen.

See if she will allow you a date or two, after an initial cooling off period.

Unfortunately, you probably have to let this take it's course. You've tried your best, now see what happens next. Whatever will happen, don't feel like you've let your kids down. Your wife thinks you're a great Dad, i'm sure your kids feel the same. You can still be a GREAT dad, and I'm sure you will, regardless of the situation.

#1053141 01/27/03 09:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 71
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 71
i would never agree to a seperation...so he can have his cake and eat it too EASIER? Jeez, is the wife who wakes up one day too scary so he now needs to seperate?

JUST BE A F***n MAN for once and reveal all the lies. If my darling H would or could do that, it would hurt but I would have more respect in the long run...I lose so much respect every day from someone who has never been able to be accountable for mistakes, which is why they keep gettinmg repeated...kind of like the A. If i close my eyes and don't look at it, I don't have to see it, understand it, and gosh...maybe learn from it? To me this is a person who is unwilling to change. Therefore jimo he needs to go....for GOOD. Because the day will come when he takes a look back and will discover I am not there waiting for his crumbs...
NO SEPERATION UNLESS HE ADMITS....LIKE A MAN.

#1053142 01/27/03 11:18 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 6,473
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 6,473
Hi SHA,
I have only been around about a year but your story was one I read when I first came here. I looked up your past threads and I figured you probably had things going well. Last time I saw you post was april 2002 wishing someone a happy birthday ( I think.) I have wondered how you were doing.

I agree with JL, I believe there is something else going on. I can't see that counseling would hurt things any. A good conseler should be able to help see what is wrong, and what needs to happen.

I would also agree that after 4 years you may not be able to put this back together. You have been at it long enough to know not to get your hopes up, but I suspect the hurt never goes away for good, does it.

It may be that she is like humpty dumpty. It may be that she is broken, and no one can fix her. I hate to say it, but you need to consider everything at this point. Some things are buried so deep even counslers can't get them out.

What do you want? Can you go on another two years in counseling if you have to? Are you tired and want out? What are your feelings now?

SS

#1053143 01/28/03 04:59 PM
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 1,101
S
Member
OP Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 1,101
Thank you all for your insight and advice.

JL &#8211; You have a very point that it may be something else besides the sex. Perhaps counseling will help uncover that. You ask why not just file for divorce and move on. I suppose I see divorce in the future but counseling and separation is the next step. I&#8217;m pretty emotionally prepared for what ever happens. My wife knows the kids will hurt but I suppose her hurt outweighs the hurt the kids will experience. We both feel each other is a good parent. We plan to share parenting as best possible. There is no ill will between us in regards to parenting. I liked your &#8220;death by a thousand cuts&#8221; line. I feel like I have over a thousand and counting. After a while, the cuts don&#8217;t hurt as much and you learn how to heal the wounds. No need to feel sorry, I am OK and ready for whatever life has to offer.

Kathi &#8211; I haven&#8217;t thought a lot about the separation or the details. I do like the idea of a controlled separation as you suggest. I&#8217;m hoping the counselor can help facilitate that. Thanks for the compliment. I hope you are well.

CantThinkOfAName &#8211; I will get the book you suggest. I have quite a library now and can always use another if there is something to gain from it. Sorry to hear you are in the same boat. That is the one thing I always appreciated from this site is that there are many experiencing the same life changing events and we can help and encourage one another through it all. I hope the best for you. I will be watching your threads to see how things go.

Lor &#8211; Boy it has been a long time since I have seen your name. I hope you are well. I very much appreciate you taking the time to post. Your comment about telling the kids is a good. My wife said she fears she will be the bad guy in all of this. She is a good mom. It is one of the few needs of mine that she does fill. I don&#8217;t intend on berating her with the kids. I know how damaging that can be. I do want to be honest with them though. Our two oldest ones (high school age) do know there is tension between us. They have commented to her that they see all of the attention I provide her and the lack of attention she provides me. I&#8217;m sure it will not be a surprise to them. The younger ones, I fear, will take it the hardest. I have read two things about separations. 1) 80% of all long term marriages go through one. 2) As you stated, 75% of separations, do not lead to reconciliation. It&#8217;s a pretty fine line. I am much more prepared now than I was four years ago. My Plan A has helped me become a better man. And at least I know I have given it everything; I&#8217;m not sure my wife can say that. She has her own problems to resolve. Thank you for responding.

Johnh39 &#8211; Thank you for the two book references. It looks like a trip to the book store is in order. It is good to hear that a good sexual relationship can be developed where there wasn&#8217;t one before. My wife is of course hearing the opposite. It simply takes two willing partners deciding to go down that path. I hope you and your wife continue to heal your marriage wounds.

Boomer &#8211; Thanks for posting. My daughter gave me the greatest compliment a while back when she told my wife &#8220;I want to marry somebody just like Daddy&#8221;. What more could I ask for? We will see what all this brings.

Stupid- I don&#8217;t know your situation, but if you follow the Marriage Builder concepts, separation (Plan B) is an avenue many have to take. I don&#8217;t know who you are talking to when you say &#8220;JUST BE A F***n MAN for once and reveal all the lies.&#8221;. I don&#8217;t have any lies that I am with holding. My wife is being honest with me as well. We have had a difficult time communicating at a deep level and things are finally surfacing. I hope things go better for you.

SS &#8211; It seems odd to me that my wife is happy with everything that I have to offer except sexual intimacy. To me, that seems like an area that can be easily repaired as long as both partners are open and honest about it. But, she truly feels that I am not her soul mate. I never liked that term anyway. It doesn&#8217;t help that she is surrounded by fellow workers who are all divorced and bitter about there relationships. She doesn&#8217;t get a lot of support for trying to heal marriage wounds. I am happy that she decided to seek counseling and I look forward to what is in store for the both of us attending. If anything, I hope I can learn more about myself to prevent irritating behaviors in the future. I am considering that the day we stop sharing a bed may be the last for us. It&#8217;s funny you asked me what I want because my wife asked the same thing. What I want is for us to go to counseling and work on each of us having a happy marriage. I want us to attend to each others needs. I want us to be open and honest with each other in all areas of life. I want us to stay together and really try going in the same direction. But, we don&#8217;t seem to want the same things. So, either way I&#8217;m ready. I feel sad that she is choosing this path. I am happy about going to counseling together. I am happy we are being more open with each other. I&#8217;m sad about what this will do to our kids. Four years ago I would have been a pile of mush. I&#8217;m really handling this well. At least for now.

SHA

#1053144 01/28/03 05:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 789
E
Member
Offline
Member
E
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 789
You said she's willing to counsel with you. TAKE HER UP on it ASAP. In fact, tell her that the counselor can help you with a separation agreement.

Don't "agree" to the separation- as in it's a good idea. Just tell her you can't stop her from leaving. You want to work on the marriage with her and you feel separating might not be the best way to achieve that. (You can say, But maybe a marriage counselor could help me understand your point of view on this better....) She has to do the legwork- find a place etc. Don't react to it until she comes to you with lease in hand. DO get into counseling with her. Given how long you've been "stuck" I really think you guys need a professional to help.

#1053145 01/28/03 05:42 PM
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,798
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,798
SHA,
Well, if you look at my # of posts, you'll realize I've pretty much been here all along <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

Guard & I are doing great. I appreciate and love him more all the time. This past month he was the one who suggested we go to a marriage enrichment class at our church, at the end of it we renewed our vows with our pastor. The road here wasn't easy, but I'm glad we gave it the 7th try, no regrets.

Another thing the separations did give us, was that when we came back together, it was a decision by both of us. We both expected full effort from the other. We didn't have that in our earlier reconciliations...and I can imagine if my H hadn't walked out those times that it would have been the death of a thousand cuts, rather than the severe blows to the heart! Put that way, it doesn't sound good either way, does it?

We also went to our counselor both MC & IC during most of the separations. It gave us a safe place to talk, with someone to mediate, moderate, redirect, and guide. I think counseling with your W will be to your benefit, regardless of outcome.

If your wife wants to leave, you can't force her to stay. It sounds like at this point you can deal with the situation if she does leave. It's good to have a plan, even if she wouldn't leave. I found the results of begging particularly bad, so I can say don't beg!

Keep your composure and be a good co-parent, you may want to bump your kids to your #1 priority, and safeguarding them also serves to take your intense focus off your spouse. Like Dobson talks about in Love Must Be Tough, open the cage door for your wife.


Moderated by  Fordude 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 1,116 guests, and 67 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Mike69, petercgeelan, Zorya, Reyna98, Nofoguy
71,829 Registered Users
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2019, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5