Just bumping this back to the first page...

♥ ♥ ♥

HEARTS!!! how'd you do that???

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

-ol' Qfwfq

HEARTS!!! how'd you do that???

type: & h e a r t s ;

without the spaces and you get ♥ ...

oaktown...

&hearts

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

&spades

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ February 26, 2003, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: Qfwfq ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Qfwfq:
<strong>&hearts

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

&spades

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">don't forget the simi-colon on the end so you get ♥ and ♠ ...

:&Hearts:

:&Hearts;

sorry jen...we digress...

alostwife...

type
& h e a r t s ;
without the spaces and you get ♥ ...

the same thing works for spades ♠ and clubs ♣ , just put an & before and a ; after...

oaktown...

<small>[ February 26, 2003, 09:31 PM: Message edited by: oaktown ]</small>

♥
♠
&diamonds;
♣
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

♥
Cool! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Jen,

Sorry, have never been good at putting the characters in my messages. Anyway regarding Alanon vs AA. The main purpose of AA groups are to help the folks attending deal with their own drinking problems. The main purpose of Alanon is to help family members or friends that have been impacted by the family member or friends drinking. If dealing with your own drinking problems is what you are looking for help with go to AA. If dealing with the impacts on your husbands drinking(or maybe other family members) on you and how it impacts your life, then Alanon is for you. If you have issues with both, go to both groups, I do. Alcholism runs rampant in my own family, so I go to Alanon to deal with that issue and I go to AA to deal with my own alcholism. Both programs are essentially identical to each other and both use AA's 12 Steps and 12 tradiditions to guide how the meetings happen and how they help folks to deal with their problems. Most meetings (AA or Alanon) follow a very similar format. The meetings start with a series of readings about the program, and then someone will start the meeting by picking a topic that can be discussed for the meeting. Then people take turns going around the room and sharing their thoughts on the topic or any thing else they might like to talk about. Normally there is no cross talk (at least at meetings I go to) in otherwords people don't comment on what you said, they don't interupt you, they just listen. You also have the option to simply pass when it comes to your turn and no one will ridicule you for passing or for what you say. It's really just about folks sharing common problems that get together on a regular basis to share what is going on in their life, to share how the Steps work or don't work in their life or to discuss other topics related to recovering from the impacts of alcholism in their lifes. Your fear about going to a meeting alone is one everyone who has ever attended a meeting shares. The nice thing about that is that when you go to a meeting for the first time, let the folks attending know and I can bet you will be made to feel welcome. You might be able to call the AA or Alanone phone number in your area and find someone local that would be willing to talk to you about the program and if you wanted even take you to a meeting. There are a lot of misconceptions about what AA and Alanon are all about, but they are really just about people sharing with other people and trying to help each other. I have been going for three years now and these programs have really helped me to change my life. It's about some real simple stuff, but it really does work if you let it. It you do decide to go, try to attend a number of meetings before you give up on it. Some times you may go to a group where the personalities of the folks are not similar to yourown, then just try a different group. Once you find a group that seems to connect with you, try and attend on a regular basis for say 4-6 meetings so that you get a chance to get to know the people attending and get comfortable with the program. The first couple of meetings were very akward for me, until I got comfortable and started to understand what the program was all about. Anyway good luck and let me know if you have any questions.

Jen,

I was reading over your situation and have a few comments. First, its been my experience that alcoholics or those close to it, are extremely insecure and moody. So, you can be calm, crazy or monotone, and H is going to see it as a direct attack at him no matter what your true purpose is. So, do yourself a favor and be yourself no matter how much he tries to knock you down.

Second, I think there's an alcoholic's rule book somewhere because it seems like the people I know who are excessive drinkers, including a close relative and a former friend always blame someone else for their problems. Third, I think there's more problems here than just the A (and I apologize if I don't have all the facts straight). H has a serious drinking problem and is quickly molding you into his co-dependent.

I suggest that you consider looking into Alanon while making plans for Plan B.

Good luck.

sue

Jen,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I've taken a peek on the net at the local Alanon site, and there are several meetings I can choose to go to in my city. I hesitate a little though, because someone told me before that maybe I am an alcoholic too, b/c I used to binge drink (eg. intentionally get drunk on a Friday or Saturday night, nearly every weekend for weeks on end last spring). Really, my H and I and OM and some other friends all went out together and would drink like that. I rarely drink anymore, maybe 2 or 3 drinks at the most now, maybe once a month or even less, and that's always with a group of people, never home alone. Before, my drinking was like an excuse for me to behave poorly before. It was an unhealthy way to escape the stress of everday life. I honestly thought it gave me a license to be more of a flirt with OM, etc. Drinking just doesn't appeal to me anymore. Where do I belong, alanon, or AA???

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ditto to what Tom said. I too attend both AA and Alanon - a "double winner". For me, I learn my alanon progam is helped by attending AA meetings, so you can't go wrong.

I started going to AA when my WH was in treatment in 1992. He asked me to attend with him during a family weekend. What I heard in that meeting floored me in that I knew I was an alcoholic too. I had drank and partied with WH, he just hit a lower bottom than I did. I spent 10 years in AA and finally last summer went back to alanon (I still go to AA).

The 12 steps are a great way to live, just give the meetings enough time to tell if they are for you.

Let us know how it goes. I usually post on the DV board and I've seen Tom on the recovery board, so If we're not here, you'll know where to find us. (Tom correct me if I was wrong)

D.

♥
♠
♣
&diamonds;

Well, since I am able to control my own drinking now, I don't intend to go to AA. Take today for example, I was at an event where I planned to drive home. People kept buying me drinks, but I was driving so I gave them away after the first 2.

It would appear, after I listened to my H's phone messages again today from Sunday night, that the b@#$ard was ACTING like he was drinking his face off, and not actually doing so. This espcecially seems to be the case since he was totally FINE when his brother called him to check on him. Did I mention that one of the phone messages was him playing the video recording of his dad's memorial service, as the congregation was singing a hymn?

I am starting to wonder how much of his drinking is really excessive and a problem, or if he's pretending it's more of a problem than it really is, in his continued demented desire and attempts to manipulate me!!! "Let's make Jen think I'm a mess, in large part because of her, also because I've lost my dad, so Jen feels REALLY guilty, and really gets worried about me, so she'll come running over here in her worried state, and then I can get her into bed!!"

Gottobeme - I think you have a very good point there: "people I know who are excessive drinkers, including a close relative and a former friend always blame someone else for their problems."

So I don't know about Alanon yet. Besides, I hardly have any contact with my H at this point. I may see or hear from him once every 1-2 weeks. Yes, I'm largely a chicken about going. But I do think I may be onto something when I say he's been acting. What do you all think?

Jen

<small>[ February 28, 2003, 12:22 AM: Message edited by: Jen Brown ]</small>

Jen,

I think you will make yourself crazy trying to analyze your husbands motives. What I have figured out is that there are easy ways to deal with the problems that drinking cause and there are hard ways to deal with them. Both ways may work. I have decided to choose the easy way, namely AA/Alanon, because they work for me. I spent about 25 years of my life trying to figure it out on my own, and I never got it. Just a warning about controled drinking, in the world of alcholism, controling your drinking is a good sign of having a problem, not sure that is true in your case or not, but in my own situation, control is a big red flag. Anyway good luck and God's strength and much patience to you.

<small>[ February 28, 2003, 08:51 AM: Message edited by: Tom ]</small>

Thanks again Tom. I guess Alanon really would be a wise step. Especially after more of his antics late last night......

He called me at 12:45am to rant and rave at me about how I'm the most selfish and callous person he knows b/c of a work related event that "the two people who ruined his life" (me and OM) were able to attend yesterday, but that my H could not. It was an event with hundreds of people at it. My H and his brothers did not attend b/c they thought that they'd end up in a fight with OM. It's an annual social event, that as my H puts it, would've been a time for him to do some professional smoozing, etc., and it also happens to be a very fun event. He was very resentful that I was there, having fun and putting on the caring wife, "wanna be hero" wife appearance. Whenever everyone asked where he was, I told them he was attending to some legal businness with his mom over his dad's death. Really, this was supposedly the truth, b/c his mom told me they had a lawyer's appt. yesterday.

Anyways, then, and by now this may not even shock any of you, after my H had totally berated me on the phone, made me feel like a selfish and evil person again, he phones a few minutes later and asks if I am interested in going over to see him and wearing something sexy (ie. he wanted me to come over and give him sex). I told him that wasn't a healthy solution to all of this, said no, told him we should get together today and talk or something, and attempted to go back to sleep. So he calls me early this morning and asks if I'm coming over there to have sex with him. When I'm reluctant he says would you let me in if I came over there? I asked him at least 3 times (he avoided or ignored the question the first 2 times) how he can want to have sex with someone he's so angry with. He said yes I'm very angry with you, but I want to have sex with you. I told him I can't do that and still have any self-respect, told him I was sorry for how much I had hurt him, that I didn't intend to hurt him by attending that event yesterday, and told him that I had gotten very little sleep after last nights phone calls, so I was going back to sleep and said goodbye and hung up on him. Now, sober him (it's morning now right?) did not phone back.

See, here I sit typing all this stupidity up b/c I'm trying to figure him out or hoping someone else can. I do need to attend Alanon I guess.

I doubt it will be productive if I go visit him and try to talk to him, but I know that he'll be at home most of the day.

Jen <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

Jen,

You deserve some sanity in your life. Try the Alanon. You got nothing to loose, but some insanity.

Good luck.