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oh Mimi you big tease!

Seriously, hope it is good news that is keeping you from posting.

S.

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Hey Mim!
I'm still here! Watchin and Learnin! and of course WAITIN!
What is taking so long! I hope it's good news.
I'll be starting a thread soon. Got some catchin up to do, and it's not good stuff. But oh well..

Hurry up!!

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I'm sorry that I had to go this extreme to get attention! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I have been super busy and seems like he told me SOOOOO MUCH that I want to share.
I will not try to be coherent. I will type from my notes.

Steve H. had one session with my WS in January and seems to have learned a lot about him in that session that he is referring back to. As a preliminary statement, he sees my WS as being highly addicted to the OW. He seems to have known since D-Day that he wanted to get out of it. Steve told him how but he has not been able to do it. Steve says that my WS is a "proud" man who likes to do things his way. Also, I never told you guys this, he is a "salesman" by profession and uses those tactics on me well.

What's going on right now with him according to Steve? He is unhappy. "SET-UP" he has with the OW "is not working"(the brilliant Steve H. uses my WS' exact words). He is not getting a high from the A anymore. He sinks into a low and interaction with the OW just brings him to normal. Steve keeps making the analogy like the alcoholic. He is just drinking to keep the buzz going. This means that he is not afraid of her. He continues to "enjoy" her company so is still not able to give her up. Steve predicts, though, that she is beginning to be demanding. Steve laughed and said, "What did he expect?" The fog clouds the mind. How could he have conceived that she would agree to stay in hiding? Steve laughed about her. How can she expect to be a Mrs. WS in this community given that she is clearly the OW and WS is such a "proud" man. Steve said, "I tried to tell him but he didn't listen."

Steve says that WS has the typical male point of view. WS sees SHARED OWNERSHIP of a house with me as creating a CONNECTION. He believes a house makes US . When I sold the house he said to himself, according to Steve, "Oh, Oh, Mimi is getting too far from me I've got to reel her back in". Reel me back in, he did. He was looking for a tactic to stay on the fence. "He's between a rock and a hard place", Steve says.

He still "doesn't get it" according to Steve. He wants to postpone things, let her down slowly, maybe wait until she breaks up with him. The only way to end it is to end it. He has to do it abruptly and emphatically. So my response needs to be over and over again, keeping it simple: "Get rid of the OW. Only then will I go househunting with you." This is communicating my perspective which is different than his. My perspective is that the most important thing to me is our marriage, not a house. Working on the marriage needs to be as simple as possible and the marriage should be given "sufficient attention", "timing is not right", etc.

So what does Steve recommend that I do: "Put yourself in a holding pattern, not doing anything for several months." Interactions with him should be minimal, stressing "What is your plan to get rid of the OW?" and then cut it off. About a house, say I'm not sure what I'm going to do about a house for several months. So in, other words, Steve recommends that I lease a house or an apartment which is what I have been working on. I have not been successful in finding anything to my satisfaction but will keep looking.

As you can tell, Steve is not hard-nosed PLAN B. He even said that I could meet with him face to face but he believes that WS would use his salesmanship to make me back down. I decided to write him a letter. I have not heard from him all day to day. He's probably stewing that he did not get his way.

Important issue here is that it has been a problem in our marriage of my WS feeling left out of my decisions. This is the olive branch concept coming into play. Steve says that it would be a LBer for me to buy a house without him at this point. We need to learn how to work together. WS gets controlling, I do what I want to do anyway without considering him. He has not learned how to communicate his wishes and I have not learned how to listen. Issue of the POJA, learning to negotiate. Decreased likelihood of reconciliation if I buy MY OWN house.

I asked our question, NOW WHAT. This is in reference to showing love to your WS in PLAN B. I don't know if this is true in your case or not, NOW WHAT. Along Kily's POV, my WS did not have an A because he did not feel loved by me. He is actually very confident of my love, assuming that I'm sitting here waiting. Steve says when WS gets into that conversation, he is trying to put me on the defensive and take the responsibility off of him, as if I caused him to have the A. Steve said: "He screwed up. He allowed somebody to get close to him who was an attractive source. He put the alcohol in his mouth and swallowed and failed to understand the danger of continuing to do this. He told me to not be concerned whether or not he thinks that I care.

My main concern should be MY PLAN. I should continue to look at houses but not buy one yet. Be ready in case WS does not surrender as MM would say.

Whew, I think that's about it.

I feel 200% better today than when I was involved with him again. I'm just frustrated about not having anywhere to live.

<small>[ July 25, 2003, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

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Thanks Mimi.

My W started her A because I did not support her emotionally, she said that she felt empty inside, and did not think that I really cared about her. The OM was a brother of one of her best friends, was always around at functions and moved in on the opportunity. She knows now how much I love and care for her, based on my persistent Plan A. I still feel uncomfortabel as to what I should do. Good luck with you!
NW

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I think Steve's advice is right on target! He really seems to have a good understanding of your WS! And it is nice to see that he is not dogmatic on absolutely no communication with WS. I think it is good to keep the lines of communication open.

I think Steve is right about stalling, and definitely right about the LB of you buying a house without him. But I think you may want to be "opaque" with your WS- keep him guessing. Keep the pressure on him, don't tell him you will lease. Otherwise I'm afraid he will think he has you sitting on hold again, this time in a less than desirable situation for you.

I think the posture is always a bit- "you have left me for another woman, I need to go on with my life. Of course I would have preferred to be doing this with you, but that is not an option for me since you are living with OW".

Keep him guessing as to what you are doing. I would try to schedule a vacation for yourself if possible. Join a group tour or something, get out of town. (Let him take care of son while you are away). I know you won't date, but let him worry that you might meet another man. (And of course, you would prefer to take a nice vacation with your husband, but since he is living with another woman, you really have no choice but to make the best of it and go alone).

I know what you mean about pride. My H is the same way. Ultimately, his A demeaned him and was the antithesis to pride. My H said, I'm a creator, not a destroyer, and the A was about destroying everything I had built over the years..." Fortunately he ended it before he lost the respect of his children, extended family, and community (very few people know what happened). I hope your WS will be able to see this soon!

Be careful of saying too much in a letter. I think less is more. Steve said it very succinctly, "I'd love to go househunting with you after you break it off with OW." pretty much says it all. I also think he is right on the money how your WS manipulates you saying he had the A because you didn't love him enough. Convenient to throw the blame on you!

As your WS has said all this stuff to you recently,(let's buy a house etc) has he ever concretely detailed to you his intention to break it off with her- and given you any kind of date or plan?

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Mimi,
I almost start biting my toe nails <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> . Thanks for the update. Only on comment ...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As you can tell, Steve is not hard-nosed PLAN B. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, in your case you are strong enough not to LB and OW is fading away.

-rh-

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong> So {Steve says} my response needs to be over and over again, keeping it simple: "Get rid of the OW. Only then will I go househunting with you." This is communicating my perspective which is different than his.

As you can tell, Steve is not hard-nosed PLAN B.

My main concern should be MY PLAN. I should continue to look at houses but not buy one yet. Be ready in case WS does not surrender as MM would say.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks for the update, Mimi. Many, many of us here reading, praying and pulling for you two!

Funny thing is, it ALL sounds so much like Mortar's advice to you! I think he's got this whole "Plan A, Plan B" thing totally, RIGHT ON. But, I'm sure it feels great to have talked to Steve H. and feel like you ARE on track!

Keep up the good work.

Good luck, and God Bless,

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I think my ADDICTED WS definitely WANTS to end it EVENTUALLY but does not have a definite plan YET. He is trying to come up with a PLAN that does not make OWr go ballistic- which is impossible. He wants a plan that does it slowly, with the least amount of pain possible. He will have to do it the MB' way in order to succeed. He is fighting that, wanting to come up with his own way.

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Finally!
Sounds pretty good! You are on track girl! Keep it up! I'm "learnin" so much from you! You are strong, stronger than you think, so don't give up!

Thanks for posting on my thread, it's been tough the last few days, but things seem better today. S seems to be coming out of the worst of it. It was scary though.
You know my story? You know me. Sometimes I want to just give up the fight for M, and other times, when I really remember the man WH used to be, then I reconsider. But it's getting harder.

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Mimi & Steve H,

Mimi, I am glad you had such a good and informative meeting with Steve. You recapped it well. It has been a learning experience for many of us. I have seen you grow sooo much during this time. I am also quite proud of you.

Steve, I am not sure if you are reading this thread....hope so.... your help as well as Jennifer's help to us MBers has been invaluable.

Thank you both from the bottom of my heart. Please keep up the good work <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Mimi, that was time and $$ well spent.

Mahalo,
L.

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Mimi, did Steve say how H should go about breaking it off? You said H wants to do it slowly.
In My opinion, the longer it's drawn out the more pain.
Gee, isn't is considerate of our H's to not want to hurt OW? Yet they had no problem just walking away and doing what they wished to us, our hearts and our souls.
Sorry, I guess I'm no good at these plans. The moment I found out it was NC or out for good. I would not have allowed mine back under any circumstance. But then he never moved out of house either. It was totally different A. Seen twice, talked to for months prior. When I found out, it was over that day!
Does Steve think this is just an excuse of H to prolong it? Still not made up his mind?
How about a deadline too? Either or?
I'd love to know what Steve recommends in this instance.
God bless, LouLou

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Hi Mimi
You were so kind on my thread I just wanted you to know that I had been reading and following your thread. You are one strong lady. Your H sounds a bit like mine - not wanting to hurt OW and the pride thing. I was lucky though, I never had to go past Plan A. I found so much strength here, so much so that I have changed my attitude dramatically - no longer tearful and needy.
You are in my thoughts - I will continue to follow your progress, you are brilliant!
Jackie

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LouLou:

Steve thinks there's only one way for my WS to break it off-abruptly and emphatically with NC letter, barriers to contact, etc. He told my WS this in their one session. I think WS knows that he needs to and wants to break it off but he is still addicted. He's not as deep into the addiction as before PLAN B but still enjoys the drug although it is not making him high. It's like when I knew I needed to stop smoking or else it was going to kill me but it took a medical condition for me to finally stop. The addiction analogy is always helpful for me and it is what Steve always uses. WS is trying to avoid all pain which is impossible.

He does not want me to give a deadline. Just recommended that I think of myself as in a "holding pattern for several months". I'm thinking Steve thinks WS will make a move soon. He mentioned that we should date(?),not live together initially, even if and when he "gets rid of her".

Jackie:

Thanks for your support. I will keep in contact with you.

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MIMI, I am glad to here there is so much progress in your PLAN B and how much your session helped you with Steve .

I agree with LL , It is amazing that WS 's put so much thought into how they will RID themselves Of OP . When they didn't worry about how much pain they caused the BS when they did all this ..

BUT in my very twisted situation that I was in I relived that , H getting "RID" of OW and how he did it really had to be his problem .

Yes it caused me pain to know he even cared about hurting her feelings or any thing else for that matter ,, But now I am very happy that I did not demand how he did it and that I stood by him .

I wanted N/C and I have that now going on 2 months , I came to relize him doing it the he wanted was part of his heeling process , what he could live with ,, his guilt or what ever .

I know I might get 2x4 for saying it , but I still think it helped ..The hard part was me dealing with the thougt of knowing he even gave a $hit for hurting her , but weather we want to realize it or not the WS has guilt for what they do to OP also , thats what makes it so hard to swallow ..

I do hope he comes out of FOG more and more and just ends it faster for your emotional state of mind .. But you sound well and just IMVHO don't bother with what he does in respects to OW ,, the how , he does it as long as he does it and SHOWS you that he is recommitted to working on your M ..

OH and for what its worth I can relate to all you are saying about your gut about the house and his EN needs involing that issue ..

Stay strong and keep moving ahead with your personal recovery , stay calm you got him on the ropes . LOL

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Mimi, thank you for clarifying what Steve thinks. I was wondering if it was just me and my temper or if it's the way to go. I mean immediate break off with OW.
But reading on I see it has to be his way perhaps to really break for good.
I just commend you for your strength in all this. I could never be that patient which is a real flaw of mine!
I'm grateful I didn't have to contend with it the way you have as I'd never have lasted! I admit my faults where I see them.
I do pray he doesn't keep you hung up for months waiting to see what he does! Hopefully he'll end this soon.
Even though you're doing a great job, it can't be easy on your emotions.
I'm sure we're all really anxious for the day we hear he's done with it and ready to recommit to you!
God bless and keep on keeping on. LouLou

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Mimi,

Just wanted to chime in and say it is great that you got everything out of Steve.

Like I said before, I have counseled with Steve and he is GREAT!

Also, by your posts, it is apparent that I have been actually listening to Steve! Seems like most of what I wrote previously was pretty much Steve's call also (okay...this was a shameless pat on the back! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ).

Now, the big question Mimi...are you going to do it this time? Full out, no stopping?

Even Steve believes your husband is close. So get with it woman!

In His arms.

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I have to say I'm sorry that I let you guys down. You have seemed so proud of me. I don't think all is lost but I goofed big time.

I was tempted to keep this a secret but maybe my experience might help someone else. Also, I continually need your support so it would only hurt me in the long run not to be honest with you guys.

WS pursued and caught me in the video store. It was inevitable, what transpired, now that I think of it. Once we saw each other it was no turning back. It was like in a movie. We haven't seen each other in about two months. We are very attracted to each other. I was looking very good today. I know it. I fix up provocatively on the weekend to make myself feel good. Cologne, makeup and all. Well, you guessed it.

We did not talk much in the store. He came up and said "Hi, Mimi". I said "Hi, this is such a huge mistake." (Those words slipped out of my mouth).

About a half hour later he called saying, "Can you meet me at the office?" It seemed my mind wasn't working. It was like I was under a spell. I went. I won't fill in all of the blanks regarding the preliminary chit-chat we engaged in. He said, "Can I get a hug?" and then it was "On". To be honest, it was the best S*** experience I can ever remember having in my life. It was very intense, involved and unforgettable. It felt like making love, not s**** for many different reasons that I can't detail. WS said things he used to say before, that I have not heard in years. Unfortunately, , I met that SF need for me that he has been missing during PLAN B. However, the good news is I more than upheld the fantasy he had of PLAN A. Maybe it was a test to see if it was still there. It is.

He says it won't be more than a week before NC. Maybe this was part of his plan. Did he need this to motivate him or enable him? He was using the statement, "I am committed to you this time".

I know it was a mistake but right this minute I don't care. In the short term, it was wonderful. I'll probably start my withdrawal again tomorrow. I'm still on a high tonight. I just sit and relive the experience.

Actually I plan to proceed with BUYING a house. I probably will check with him to find out which houses he has also liked. I just cannot find a rental house that I can bear to live in. I think living in a rental will build up too much resentment in me that I was reduced to that level. I cried yesterday when I saw the first one. I said to myself, "I don't think I can do this regardless" Sorry to folks who think that I am being too materialistic or don't have my values straight. This home issue seems to be extremely key to both me and WS.

I hope you guys will continue to support me.

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Mimi, if it means anything to you, I KNOW I would have done the same. It's hard to resist when your feelings are so strong and there's obvious chemistry. Don't beat yourself up over this, it's done, glad it was so good <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Did you do it in the office? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Hope the fire alarms are working, sounds like there were some serious sparks flying <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

On the house thing. I don't think you are being materialistic at all. It's your home after all. Why should you lower your standards? Keeping H in the loop is good.

Hope you don't mind me putting my 2 cents in, Jackie.

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Jackie:
Even moving from place to place to different areas IN THE OFFICE . Very Rated! What can I say??? It happened.

<small>[ July 27, 2003, 02:25 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

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<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

WOW!!!

What more can I say, I'm green with envy - H is still away golfing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Maybe now that he's had a taste of what could be, your H will speed up his decision. You could use this to your advantage. Let this be a "carrot", but don't let it happen again or he'll start cake-eating again! JMHO.

Be strong, Jackie.

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