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dewt Offline OP
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Here is the non love busting version of my rant...

__________________

Dylan,

...

You have every right to be upset about last weekend.

And I have every right to be upset about the whole (OW) thing.

And we both have every right to be upset about the thousand ways in which we have each failed to meet each others needs over the years...

...about how we have utterly failed to build a good life together...

...about how we have consistently managed to NOT act on all the things we've known we should have...

...and how we have CONSITENTLY let each other down...

And now, more than any other time in our history, each of us would be totally justified to wrap ourselved up in our own personal pain and betrayal and blame each other, and blame ourselves and write the whole damned thing off...

...but then where would we be?

...where would (Mini) be?

It is time to make choices. Solid choices made not out of reaction or pain or hurt or any of that cr@p, but solid choices based on the future and what we each want from it...

...as individuals and as a couple (if that still applies)...

No hints. No baby steps. No fug-ups. No submitting to weaknesses...

Solid choices followed by solid plan followed by solid, real-life action.

Action, Dylan... the element that has been missing from our lives since day fugging one.

Concerted, all encompassing, immediate action...

Not one person trying, the other person not. Not focusing on one thing, but letting all else fall to the wayside.

Positive, affirmative choices followed by positive, affirmative action.

We have it within ourselves to turn ALL of this around.

And we have the most important reasons in the world to make it work.

I'm not saying that we can make everything 'alright' overnight... no... I'm not saying that... BUT I am saying that we can choose to have our paths point in that direction.

Counselling, therapy, anti-depressants, double income, dual parenting... all that stuff I will leave open ended, because if we can't firmly DECIDE to take the first steps and make a SOLID COMMITMENT to those steps, then there's no point in building our future on a shaky foundation, and all those things are details that come after the first profound step.

I'm not asking you to reply to this tonight. Or even tomorrow. I understand that you are in a lot of turmoil and are still "reacting".

I am asking you to think about this for a few days though...

I'm asking you to let the content of this email sink in and I'm asking you to read it over and over until the snarky comments stop coming and you really start to hear what I'm saying.

I do love you.

dewt

<small>[ May 02, 2004, 05:30 PM: Message edited by: dewt ]</small>

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Dewt,

I really feel for you. How long will YOU continue to choose to live in this darkness? Anger and resentment are eating away at your soul and I am concerned for your spirit. Is it possible for you to mentally step outside this insane spiraling-downward-cycle and dream? Dream of the type of life you would like to have with someone... the Ultimate spouse, somone who is worthy of you and you of she. then ask yourself the question sincerely, can you have that life with Dylan... not the dylan that was, the Dylan who IS this day. who are you & what are you worthy of? Can Dylan provide you with what you are worthy of, despite your downfalls?

Peace,
Odyssey

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dewt Offline OP
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Ahhh, this was just a vent... Dylan and I emailed back and forth a few times today and I was just reacting when I wrote this. Angry angry angry...

Writing it and posting it helped cool me down. I posted it because I wanted to know if I was being unreasonable in feeling this way, particularily in light of what's happened...

I'm cooled down now plenty and am in fact in the middle of a much more positive post... (which should be up soon)

dewt

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<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ark

<small>[ May 02, 2004, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: ark^^ ]</small>

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Hey ark,

I think pain can serve us very well. Providing we don't get wrapped up in it and let it prevent us from seeing the bigger picture.

I just had to get this out... had to have it acknowledged... I sure didn't want to send it to Dylan... Well, I did, but I knew darn well that it would do no good.

We have an agreement regarding vents here at MB. IF the subject line contains the word "vent" the content is likely to be lovebusterish and it's a 'read at your own risk' scenario.

I have considered deleting it. I will too, once I'm 'over' the feelings that caused me to post it...

Notwithstanding some of my more idiotic choices, I've still got a fair bit of anger.

I feel like it would be healthy to acknowledge that anger and put it into it's place. I need to face it, and own it as much as I need to face and own my own mistakes and failings...

Not only that, but despite the emotional content of the letter, I really actually think I've got a point.

I had to get it out.

Anyway, yes, I will delete it in a couple of days.

Meanwhile, I reread it and thought about it and last night sent her an email that had the main points of this email re-arranged into a much more loving and far less 'attacking' message.

I wish I'd saved that email. I'd have posted it so you could compare the two.

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Good vent, Dewt - understandable - however I also agree with Ark, this is one of those things that might be better off written and then thrown away, rather than posted where you KNOW your wife has the ability to read.

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Oh, she's already read it...

Oddly enough we then had an actual conversation.

Weird.

For months I try not to say all that, and I stew miserably in my limbo. I post what I think is the ultimate lovebuster and we actually talk.

Obviously not much was resolved... there is too much pain in the air right now, but...

I'm still torn about taking it down. It seems almost like it would be 'taking it back'... I feel this way, though the anger behind it has abated...

I'm wondering if my 'plan A' has shot me in the foot... One of the issues at play is that I need, in some ways, to 'grow up'. Maybe it is about time I 'put my foot down' and stop pussyfooting around... 'Be a man' so to speak...

what is it with the feet in that last paragraph?

dewt

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hi dewt,

I also think you should delete your "vent". When I first saw that message subject--before I read it--I interpreted it as this....

dylan, here is my angry outburst against you. If you read it that's not my fault for putting it where you will see it, it's your fault for reading it.

dewt, I view this the same way I would view stocking the liquor cabinet and then calling it to the attention of the alcoholic who is still drinking--but trying to figure out how to stop.

So, I wasn't surprised to see this explanation from you:
"We have an agreement regarding vents here at MB. IF the subject line contains the word "vent" the content is likely to be lovebusterish and it's a 'read at your own risk' scenario."

You said:
"Oh, she's already read it...

Oddly enough we then had an actual conversation.

Weird.

For months I try not to say all that, and I stew miserably in my limbo. I post what I think is the ultimate lovebuster and we actually talk."

Is this helpful to either of you? What do you get out of it? Is that the way you want to get whatever it is you got from it? Or do you want to learn less hurtful ways to get the same thing, even if the gratification is not instantaneous?

I know these are hard questions to ask ourselves, and sometimes even harder to answer. But it's part of the growing up process, and that's one of your main goals isn't it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You said:
"I have considered deleting it. I will too, once I'm 'over' the feelings that caused me to post it..."

Will you consider deleting it BEFORE you're 'over' the feelings? You can't "not post it" now, but you could delete it sooner than what is in your familiar comfort zone. Whatcha think?

Take care dewt

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Well, considering how I'm always asking others to step outside their comfort zone, I could at least do the same, right?

Anyway, last night I sent her an email... I posted it above. Same basic message, without the anger...

Is that better?

dewt

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hi dewt,

I don't know if the revised rant is better or not, I haven't read it.

I think this is better though:
"Well, considering how I'm always asking others to step outside their comfort zone, I could at least do the same, right?"

Harley says that the first thing for us to concentrate on is ELIMINATING LBs, not lessening them, ELIMINATING them. Harley says that when love unit are deposited, the $LB goes up a little at a time until it reaches a certain level. Harley also says that LBs drain the $LB--not trickles the Love Bank balance, DRAINS it.

I was taught that it takes 7 postives to counteract 1 negative. When my kids were in middle school, they were taught that it takes 15-20 positives to counteract 1 negative (the topic was making fun of others and the results).

What do you think would happen if you held yourself accountable for 15-20 positive ACTIONS, not words, for every negative action you did?

I did this except I used 10 instead of 15-20. It went a long way to help me eliminate LBs, but the reason it was successful was the most surprising thing of the experiment <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Take care dewt

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Hey Dewt,

I haven't read everything you've been putting out here, so please forgive me if this is a repeat of something.

I haven't spoken to Dylan in any detail about your recent problems. Mostly just to let her know that I am concerned and want to help if I can. She is not ready for my help, and that's okay. It will be here when she is ready for it.

I know the history of you and Dylan better than many of the people here, so please keep that in mind. Dylan and I have been friends for five years, and we have lived the hell of infidelity together, so I freely admit that I am biased in this arena.

I just want you to think about a couple of things. First of all, I absolutely believe that you are in pain from all this, and I am not trying to make light of that. Please just remember that Dylan has been having that same pain for five years now, and it has NEVER really lessened. Dylan has never gotten better, never gotten "over it", never recovered. The OW eased the pain for a while, and it was a narcotic to her. For the first time in five years the pain eased a bit, and she didn't want it to come back. Actually, one kind of pain was replaced by another, but at least it was a different kind of pain and offered a break from the daily relentless pain she had been feeling for so many years.

Please understand that I am not offering your first affair as an excuse for Dylan's unfaithfulness. It is no more an excuse than Dylan's affair is an excuse for the two infidelities you have participated in since then. You have both been wrong, but I still care about you both. I know that you are both suffering greatly, but you are both hurting because of decisions you made and unfortunately continue to make.

I feel that I am standing on a hill, watching a road below with two cars careening towards each other out of control. I am helpless to stop the inevitable damage about to occur. And when the cars do collide, they back up and do it again, and then again, and then again. And it is obvious that they will not stop until they are completely destroyed.

I don't know the truth here, and it doesn't matter that I don't. I know the many things Dylan has told me and it is vastly different from your version. The truth is probably somewhere in between. But the one aspect of this whole mess that wrenches my heart is that beautiful little boy who is being put through this hell.

Dewt, he is not your friend nor your confidante. He is your child, and deserves your protection. He already knows far more about infidelity and homosexuality and unfaithfulness and dishonesty and loss than many adults EVER have to know. Please, please stop that part of this insanity at least. He deserves so much more than this.

I care about all of you, but I feel so sad about him. See, I was a child of a broken marriage too. The kind where the parents stay together and talk to the children about every betrayal, abuse, mistake, and insult in some demented effort to look like the "better" parent. Nobody wins. Least of all your son.

Peppermint

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Hi Peppermint...

I don't know when you last tried to email Dylan... you may want to try again. If you want, email me at dewt2003@hotmail.com and I'll give you her phone number. (it may be different than the last one I gave you)

I know Dylan's version is different than mine. I got a taste of it through a post that Nicole (Patient Love) put on one of my threads. I'm not so much interested in bantering versions back and forth, but rather finding a solution and saving my marriage and family. (On the other hand I did react to Nicole's post, and admit I have made some hugely bad mistakes along the way...)

I agree with the car crash analysis. I can see it too, and am screaming to myself enough is enough.

Minidewt has indeed been exposed to more than he should have been... by both of us. We've discussed that and put an end to that. (there's a thread about that too) I too am a child of a broken marriage and my mom set an awesome example of never speaking badly about my dad. I only found out the horrid details after she died. I have no ill words to speak of Dylan, not to my son, not to my friends or family... the worst that comes out is here and it's venting more than slagging her person.

I really hope that you can get in touch with Dylan and talk with her.

I know full well that Dylan has been carrying her pain around all these years. I don't feel that it is the same pain. After D-day, I applied myself to the fullest extent to recovery that I could. You, who know some of our history, know how much time I spent on these boards, and the efforts I made towards recovery. I went no contact right away and felt profound remorse and shame over my actions.

This has been going on 6 months for me now, 2 of which were right in my home while I was banished to the room down the hall. I've yet to receive even an apology or an acknowledgement of the pain I've faced. There was never any question for me about who I wanted to be with... Never even a moment where I had to struggle with a choice between my OW and Dylan. I don't want to make light of the betrayal she felt, but this is not the same thing at all.

I don't know what to do about Dylan carrying her pain with her all these years. I'm honest with her, I've been devoted and true over those years... I'm at a loss. She won't let it go and there's nothing I can do about it...

All that being said, there's still the sentiments expressed in my post at the top of this thread. Enough is enough. No more crashes. It has to stop.

Any help or advice or wisdom or chastisement you can offer would be more appreciated that I have words to express. You can email me if you don't want to post...

Thanks for dropping in.

dewt

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Oh dewt, I thought you were starting to get it. But there were also times I thought my FWH was starting to get it and I was wrong then too, every single time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

You said:
"I know full well that Dylan has been carrying her pain around all these years. I don't feel that it is the same pain."

You're right, it's not the same. One difference is that you've struggled with it for a few months, not many years.

You said:
"I've yet to receive even an apology or an acknowledgement of the pain I've faced."

Welcome to BS 101. This is the norm for a BS. Maybe check out the info pages that cover this issue. Think back dewt, did you apologize or acknowledge any of the pain you were inflicting WHILE you were in your original affair? How about your recent affairs, did you apologize or acknowledge any of the pain you were inflicting WHILE you were doing it? If I remember correctly, you did that AFTER you were done with each of them--not before.

You said:
"There was never any question for me about who I wanted to be with... Never even a moment where I had to struggle with a choice between my OW and Dylan."

Most WSs struggle with that choice while they are in the affair. It's the norm. And what are the BSs advised to do--start Plan A immediately and start eliminating love busters. Welcome to BS 101 dewt.

You said:
"I don't want to make light of the betrayal she felt, but this is not the same thing at all."

No, it's not the same--this time YOU'RE on the receiving end. Welcome to BS 101 dewt.

You said:
"I don't know what to do about Dylan carrying her pain with her all these years."

Wasn't this covered during your recovery the first time you were the WS? Harley writes about exact steps for the WS to take to make Just Restitution. Did you do those steps? All of them? Completely?

You know what dewt? You were sounding like you wanted to start getting it. This last post of yours sounds more like a WS's thought process--all about me, my pain is worse, etc.

dewt, you are a BS now. The sooner you decide to do recovery work (actions) from that position, the sooner you will begin to recover. It is typical for the BS to start recovery first and pave the way for the WS to join in, if they choose. Welcome to BS 101 dewt.

Work on BS 101 dewt. I think it would be a good idea to quit judging whose pain is worse. You're BOTH in pain and the sooner you start working on the ways YOU are the cause of your WW's pain (eliminate LBs), the sooner your recovery will begin.

I know it's not easy dewt, but I don't think it's any harder for you than it is for any other BS or FBS. Buck up dewt, this is BS 101. It starts getting better when YOU start getting better, and not one minute before.

Take care dewt <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

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Yikes... good post...

I guess I have some things to think about today...

Thanks.

dewt

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Hello again,

I'm walking a tightrope here, Dewt. I KNOW things from Dylan's perspective, and I get the impression you are still not cognizant of anything but your own experience.

Some of this I get, having a brother that I love and adore so very much who is married to a woman who has betrayed him several times. It hits a typical male ego in a way it doesn't with a woman. I cannot begin to understand the effects a same-sex affair adds to that.

But LovingBoundaries is right on. You aren't getting Dylan's feelings about this, and the truth is you never really have. And I know that too. Firestorm STILL has a bit of the "I ended it, said I was sorry, and felt bad, so that should be enough" syndrome. It isn't enough for some people. Dylan was hurt beyond what you can imagine, and the other issues of poverty, drug use, etc. exacerbated all of that.

You want Dylan to apologize and feel bad for what she did to you. It is human to want that, just like it was human for Dylan to want YOU to fix EVERYTHING, including the betrayal and the money problems, to be her shining knight on a white horse. But you didn't fix it, probably couldn't fix it.

Right now Dylan probably isn't really sorry that you are hurt. It's a fact of life after an affair that feelings aren't the same anymore. To be brutally honest, even now when my husband gets sick or stressed or worried he might get laid off, a small part of me thinks it's only fair after everything he put me through. That part is nothing to be proud of, but it is real.

Here's one suggestion-change your tag line. Stop thinking of yourself as betrayed and start thinking of Dylan. Because if you think her affair had nothing to do with yours, you are fooling yourself badly. That is not an excuse for her actions, but the damage Dylan suffers from is what enabled all of it to happen. That doesn't make it any less wrong, of course.

I think Dylan did this for the same reason some people turn to drugs or alcohol, to hide from the pain. And as long as you have the attitude that you are the righteous injured partner, the chances of her wanting to be with you again aren't very good.

Spending a lot of time on the MB board doesn't make you a successful Marriage Builder, it just makes you a regular. Right now you are very stuck in a place that isn't going to help put your family together and make it succeed.

Peppermint

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LovingBoundaries

Sometimes I feel like I am starting to 'get it' and sometimes I feel like I'm not getting it again.

What I've struggled with for these past months is limbo. For me personally it's the ultimate hell. The affair itself, I actually feel like I have already forgiven her for that, and let the pain of it go. I will not struggle with that for years.

Maybe I'm a freak. Maybe I'm in denial. Maybe that pain is still in me, but buried so deep I won't even acknowledge it. But I can honestly say that 4 years from now I will not be walking around feeling angry or resentful that Dylan had an affair.

Here's another difference.... For me, it's the abandonment issue that's the hard one. I will struggle with that until either she comes home to us and commits to rebuilding our relationship and family OR she decides that she doesn't want to. In which case I will reflect on why she'd make that decision and forgive her for that too.

I did read SAA, and when I got to the part where Sue wouldn't apologize to John for her affair and in fact 'treated him like he was the one having an affair', I was so disgusted and outraged that I mentally cussed John out and put the book down for about a month.

And the truthful answer to your question is no. I did not apologize for any of the pain I was inflicting, because I didn't see the pain until D-day. And when I did see the pain, it forced me into a stage of profound personal change. Dylan was faced point blank with my pain on a daily basis for 2 months and it didn't even slow her down. I must admit this is a sticking point for me. And if we are to rebuild, this is one area in which it will be very difficult for me to learn to trust again.

As for my 'recent affairs', my dating with Mary occured based on my belief that our marriage was over. Finit. Done. I thought (still do) that Dylan was in full swing with OW and did not for a moment think that me dating would cause her any pain. The moment she gave me indication that she was upset with my dating, I realized that there was still hope for my marriage and ended my relationship with Mary. As for last weekends misadventure, well, yes. I apologized and came clean pretty darn quickly.

It's a good thing that I read SAA. For me, (and this may sound sick) but my affair was just that... an affair. I was in no way attached to OW. In no way addicted. I had no problem going to no contact and didn't miss her at all. In fact, I was glad that it was over and we were working on repairing our marriage... addressing the issues that had contributed to the environment of unmet needs and unhappiness.

No, it's not the same--this time YOU'RE on the receiving end. Welcome to BS 101 dewt.

Ya. I know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Don't like it much. But (before last weekend) in many ways it's a 'cleaner' feeling. As a WS I felt awfully guilty and dirty and well, I really felt like a piece of sh*t. As a BS, I could at least hold my head up and take the high road of forgiveness and fighting to get my family back together. I've kinda gone and screwed that feeling up though.

Harley writes about exact steps for the WS to take to make Just Restitution. Did you do those steps? All of them? Completely?

Are you talking about SAA? If so, please give me the page reference. I accounted for all my time. I did the best I could in discussing details (I did have problems with memory) of the affair. I initiated NC. I followed the rule of protection. We filled out emotional needs questionaires. I posted on this board regularily for about a year. Yes, there are more things I could have done. We never did sign the marital recovery agreement, and that was a BIG mistake, because there's a lot in there that could have helped. Still, I acted in accordance with much that is in there. So, technically, the answer to your question is no. By the same token, much of recovery is a two-person thing, so I cannot shoulder ALL the blame for that one. About half, I'd say is fair.

Hey, for me, my pain is worse. But that's based on MY value system and MY perceptions. In no way do I seek to minimize or downplay the pain I've caused Dylan... through my infidelity or otherwise. To her, different things are acceptable, and different things are monumentally painful.

But at the same time, I AM hurt, and while some things I'm able to forgive and not dwell upon, I'm not going to deny that I'm deeply upset and horrified by all that has gone on. I think it's fair of me to express my feelings, but that doesn't mean I want to get into a 'who hurt who more' type of contest.

I know it's typical of a WS to do most of the hard work at first. I seriously wasn't expecting this though... not from Dylan... after 6 weeks of being alone, and she was still with OW, I thought for sure it was over. Now it's 4 months later and I'm still trying. I'm the first to admit I've messed up pretty badly, but in 99% of my other actions, I'm feeling like I've done a good job. Still, I'm open to critique. Because even before last weekend, I still didn't really feel I was getting anywhere. Dylan was coming home, but made it pretty darn plain it wasn't for me or our marriages sake.

I'm working on getting better. I honestly believe that. Yes, I've made mistakes. I admit that, and if I could go back and change that, I would. It certainly won't happen again. I am working on making me better. And mostly, I'm succeeding.

dewt

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Peppermint

I need you to explain that first statement. I put a lot of time and effort into understanding what prompted Dylans actions. I feel that exploring that has helped me understand and forgive some of her actions. Based on that I disagree with what you said. Did you mean something else?

You said: "It hits a typical male ego in a way it doesn't with a woman. I cannot begin to understand the effects a same-sex affair adds to that."

Firstly, I don't have a typical male ego. In fact, despite all this, my ego seems to be relatively unscathed. I think it's because I feel I have an understanding of why this happened. As for the same sex aspect. It's a non issue. I believe that it was a woman OP because it could never have been another man.

I never had the "I ended it, said I was sorry, and felt bad, so that should be enough" syndrome. Never. I'm developing it now, a little bit. But still, after all these years, I never even asked her to forgive me. I was, and still am, all to aware of how much she was hurt by that. Now, though, after experiencing what I have gone through over the past 6 months, and faced those feelings of betrayal, I'm thinking differently. I made a concious decision to not carry the pain of her affair with me. I don't feel resentment over it. My resentment and pain is based on what is going on NOW. And when that ends, I will deal with it and shelve it and move on. (as I posted in the above reply) I know Dylan and I are different people, with different personalities, but there's a bottom line here. Healing can't happen until you let it. And in Dylan's case, she has yet to decide to heal. And if there's anything I can do to help, well, I'm all ears. Seriously. But enough is enough. It has to stop somewhere.

Dylan was hurt beyond what you can imagine, and the other issues of poverty, drug use, etc. exacerbated all of that.

Yes. I know. I know. I know. But you know what? We did all that together. We allowed all that together. We perpetuated all that together. Both of us. Neither of us can reasonably point any fingers there. And as for imagining her pain... I saw it written on her face, plain as day for a long time. And then lived with it for 3 times that long, seeing it bubbling under the surface. Do you honestly think I'm blind? I love that woman. I used to watch her sleep. I used to watch her doing her daily stuff when she wasn't even aware that I was looking at her, wishing I knew what to do. You have no idea how in touch with her pain I was, and am. No idea. Neither, for that matter does she.

But you didn't fix it, probably couldn't fix it.

Know what? Some of it I probably could have fixed. Some of it, since losing everything, I have fixed. But for 'us' to work, it had to be a two player effort. And it never was. Too many words, not enough action. Will that change now? I hope so.

It's a fact of life after an affair that feelings aren't the same anymore.

Well, maybe I'm a freak. I still love her as much as ever. I'll have a heck of a time rebuilding trust, mind you, but I still think about her constantly. I wonder about her. I worry about her. I miss her. If she was sick, I'd jump at the opportunity to take care of her. If she was hungry, I'd cut off a finger to have the chance to cook for her. If she was sad, I'd love to be the one to hold her.

To be brutally honest, I don't think any of this is fair. I want only the best for her. Only the best. I want to be that best. I want my son to have his mom and I want her to have the joy of seeing his first morning smile again. I want her to find a good career and direction in life and I want her to have the best husband in the world.

I don't think her affair had nothing to do with mine. It was too gut-wrenchingly enacted. I don't think it was soley based on that though. I think of it, and her leaving, as a total rebellion against the colossal failure that was our life.

Trust me, I no longer feel all that righteous. I did for a while, but no longer. Now, all I want is to do the right thing and make this work.

And you're right, spending a lot of time on the MB board doesn't make me a successful Marriage Builder. Building a successful marriage would though. Being here helps me talk about my issues. Provides some companionship and helps me keep my hope alive.

You said: "Right now you are very stuck in a place that isn't going to help put your family together and make it succeed.

No kidding. I'd love to get out of that. I'm still looking for more ways of doing just that.

dewt

ps... if you email her and she doesn't reply, there's a good chance that she's either having troubles with her pc or your email got shunted to her bulk folder. My advice is to ask her to confirm receipt and keep a copy of anything you send and if you don't hear back, resend it.

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Hi dewt,

You said:
"Sometimes I feel like I am starting to 'get it' and sometimes I feel like I'm not getting it again"

What is your attitude and behavior when you're starting to 'get it'? What is your attitude and behavior when you're 'not getting it again'?

Here's a clue--not getting it again = me me me me me me me and poor me poor me poor me

Question--what part of Plan A is that?

You said:
"Here's another difference.... For me, it's the abandonment issue that's the hard one. I will struggle with that until either she comes home to us and commits to rebuilding our relationship and family OR she decides that she doesn't want to. In which case I will reflect on why she'd make that decision and forgive her for that too."

Start relecting on it now, before it's too late. Make two lists. 1) Why would she decide to rebuild? 2) Why would she decide not to rebuild?

Start fixing what's broke dewt, before it's too late. Lengthen list #1 by meeting her most important EN's. Shorten list #2 by eliminating LBs.

Suggestion--start reading the info pages on this website. Post about what you've learned and what actions you are taking to apply the concepts in your life.

Take care dewt, and happy reading <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Joined: Jan 2004
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My original post/email in this thread is a good example of me 'getting it', IMHO. The one before, that I deleted, a good example of me 'not'.

And again, I don't think this is all about me me me me me... I think it's about we. I think it's about her, AND I think it's about me. I'm trying for a balanced approach here. If you really think I'm off, please point it out to me. Seriously.

As for what part A that is, it's the part where I deal with my issues as well as what I perceive hers to be so that if she comes back, I have something to offer her rather than a neurotic, resentful, hurt-ravaged husband.

You said, "Make two lists. 1) Why would she decide to rebuild? 2) Why would she decide not to rebuild?

They're going to be short, cause I gotta go to work soon, but to sum it up:

List one:
She would decide to rebuild because:

She sees that I'm serious. That MOST of my actions over the past months show that I'm ready and able to change the things that allowed our lives to fall into and remain in shambles. She loves me and knows that I love her. She wants to be part of a solid and loving family. She wants her son to grow up with two parents who are married. She's fed up too and is also ready to make the changes within her from those actions that contributed to a failed life to those that will build a successful and happy life.

List two:
She would not decide to rebuild because:

She believes that her statement 4 years ago that "she loves me but is not in love with me," is still true and is something that cannot change. She has been too hurt by my past actions and is unwilling/unable to accept that I have, and still am changing. She cannot forgive those things and feels that she'll carry them around forever. She just doesn't want to. She's unable/unwilling to face her side of all this. She doesn't think it'd be worth the effort. She thinks the effort would be futile.

So that's the short version. But those are questions that she should be asking. I will keep this post in mind and if I get a chance, I will ask her to also make two lists.

I will indeed go back and review some of the info pages on this website. Were there any in particular that you were thinking of when you posted?

dewt

<small>[ May 04, 2004, 05:55 AM: Message edited by: dewt ]</small>


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