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#1169992 08/08/04 07:15 PM
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You wrote on another post: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am a sensible woman and I have morals (even if this OW and my H both lost sight of theirs). I found out w/ an e-mail (probably at the end of this "EA"). I was PO'd and hurt. The one of the 1st things I said to my H is, does her H know - 2nd I said, I won't tell him unless provoked. B/C in my heart and soul I couldn't did that to someone esle - probbaly b/c I basically a good person, faithful, forgiving, self respecting woman.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're not being sensible nor moral. You're being foolish. You're expecting others to act by your standards.

How could a sensible, moral woman NOT tell OW's husband? What is sensible and moral about keeping that secret?

Please tell me. I really want to understand how the rest of the world got so screwed up?

#1169993 08/08/04 10:12 PM
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First of all, WAT, your tactics are down right disgusting. If you had a response to Brown, why didnt you just post it there? Not that brown nor i won't openly defend it on this "new" thread, but you mentioned pond scum about me once....(maybe that's a bit too harsh--but what's your intention WAT? I'd *REALLY* like to know!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by worthatry:
You're expecting others to act by your standards.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LI: ABSOLUTELY NOT. Your thought process is real convoluted if you think brown was expecting others to act the way she did. Whats right for someone, may not be right for someone else. In brown's case--our case--no, its not right. So who the heck are you saying that *SHE* is expecting others to act by your standards? I'd say you WAT.
You went over a line. You went over the line of intentionally attempting to hurt someones feelings. And to be quite honest with you, you are now pond scum until you can justify your continued hurtful comments. (And yes, I have reported this to the mods.) IN NO WAY AM I JUSTIFYING MY A, BUT AT LEAST I WAS IN A "FOG" WHEN I HURT MY WIFE. What's your excuse?????

#1169994 08/08/04 10:58 PM
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LINY, I have to disagree. My H and I discussed this at great length before he rang the OM's wife. I did not want to see another woman hurt but we probably saved her marriage by telling her.

He would have continued pursuing me and then, if not me, probably somebody else. I doubt very much he'll have that chance now. I also felt that she had the right to know what she was up against.

BTW, I would have continued to pursue him as well - if I'm totally honest.

It stopped everything dead in its tracks.

Jenny

<small>[ August 08, 2004, 11:02 PM: Message edited by: KiwiJ ]</small>

#1169995 08/08/04 11:06 PM
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I found out about my WH affair because of an anonymous e-mail. I was very grateful for this. I did not suspect anything was wrong. I thought we had a good marriage. I would not have found an e-mail or checked his phone--I trusted him. Because of this e-mail, I have a chance to save my marriage. Not sure if it will make but i have a chance. Good marriages, happy families can't thrive with deception.

You may chose not to tell the OW but I don't believe you are doing her a favor.

Gillian

#1169996 08/08/04 11:12 PM
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Kiwi, how have you been?!?!?

Thanks, for your response. I *KNOW* it sounds odd and "against the rules" of MB, but for us, for brown, it is not the right thing to do. Understanding the entire situation (which, I suppose, would be understanding our entire lives!) I think you could *understand* why she, brown, has made this decision. Not agree, but at least, understand.

I think it was my very first post that I wrote something to the effect, that we are extremely unique in a very unique setting, but similar to any other EA situation.

I am in now way (nor do I think Brown does) "suggest" not telling the OWS, but in brown's circumstance and the entire situation and knowing who brown is, I understand. (Oh, and please don't get me wrong: she would be *VERY* capable of telling--just not her--not the right time--if push came to shove, she might even take him out to dinner! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I understand, it's not the MB principle *not* to "expose" it. In our case, it's just not the time.

Hope things are going well for you!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

#1169997 08/08/04 11:22 PM
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Please, please everyone: I am in no way advocating NOT to telling the OWS!--unless it is right for you.

OK. Let me explain. The OW in my situation was in a marriage of convenience--known by both the OW and OWH. I don't want to get into it any further, but this was from several sources--not just the OW. I don't need to justify this--can't justify it--don't necessarily want to justify it--but feel the "need" to help others *understand* our situation and where the decision came from.

Please also, refer to the other thread if responding. WAT and ML for whatever reason took many things out of context and went for a full assault.

At 12:30 in the morning--some 4 hours later wasted, defending my wife over something as giving an opinion--advice that worked for her--but certainly not for others.

God bless everyone--each and every one of us!

#1169998 08/08/04 11:24 PM
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LINY, sorry I didn't realise brown was your other half. Have I got that right?

I stil stand by what I said about exposure. It really, truly did kill everything stone dead. I don't know if you know, but mine was an 18 month PA. I wish the girlfriend I told about it when it was still a 2 month EA had told my H then. I know I should have, but when you're in fogland, alien abductee land, la la land you're not going to put a stop to anything.

H and I are doing fine - better and better all the time.

Jenny

#1169999 08/08/04 11:47 PM
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Yup, you got it right Kiwi! She truly is an amazing woman! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> And once again, I am realizing how blessed I really am.

The difference with my EA is that we--the OW and myself--we're ending it when my W found it. My W *is* the BS. So, once it was exposed, she didn't find it necessary to tell the OWH. I know it is not the norm per the MB principles, but it is working for her.

#1170000 08/09/04 12:37 AM
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All I can say is that I wish someone had told me.
Sure it hurt like hell when I discovered my H's affair, however the affair ended within days of me finding out and my reaction through the sadness was one of relief and hope.

A BS knows something is up and can't put their finger on it. Then they start to think they are crazy. The relationship deteriorates whether they know about the affair or not.

All I can say is I wish someone had told me sooner and saved me, my husband and the other woman years of wasted time and years of grief.

To not tell is hurting a BS more than the knowledge.
C&S

#1170001 08/09/04 03:51 AM
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I too made the choice not to tell OW's husband. My husband also encouraged and supported that decision. Of course, I didn't know the full extent of the affair. I was lied to about that as well, led to believe it wasn't physical and was a one-time thing.

A year later the OW's husband came to me with proof that the affair had continued the whole time and that once again I had been lied to.

He did the right thing, I did not.

I made the decision that the OW's husband didn't need to know, that I could "spare him". I probably believed that I was a "good person, faithful, forgiving, self respecting woman". What I really was was afraid.

It is not anyone's place to make a decision like this for another. The OW's husband deserves to know the truth. Ideally the OW should tell him. If she is too dishonest, the OM should have the guts to do it. If he doesn't the OM's wife should do it.

Expose it to the light of day and let it die.

LINY, you owe WAT a bigger apology than you could EVER imagine. But I doubt you are the kind to give it..............either to WAT or to your OW's husband.


Peppermint

#1170002 08/09/04 05:13 AM
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LINY -

Lies & deception destroy people, TRUTH heals.

Although "exposure" is an MB principle, it is more importantly a moral principle. Because people deserve to be able to live in the truth, and we as fellow humans are bound by responsibility to help each other to do that. That man has a right to know, he is no less deserving of the truth than you, your wife, or his wife. The three of you have now entered into a triangle of deception, where he is the victim of that deception. Not telling him is simply selfish on all of your parts. You are not doing him a favor you are placing him beneath you, and helping to keep him in the dark.

Granted every situation is different, but the underlying destruction is all the same. Whether his marriage is one of convenience or not, none of you will be free as long as someone is still be lied to and hurt by this.

#1170003 08/09/04 05:40 AM
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Ok kids Brown will speak now. Thanks for all of your "support".

LINY, has responded to defend my "honor" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . (I did not know my "honor" needed defending until this thread (and another thread where this one came from). I never said I "wouldn't" tell the OWH and I neither said that was "right" or "wrong" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . I said that is what is right for *ME* at this point. I never said I wouldn't - b/c you never say never - but if push came to shove - I'll do then what is appropriate for the situation and *ME*. (And no, I am saying this in some self righteous attempt to *JUSTIFY* my opinion). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I'm glad I found out about this EA and I'm (was)relieved I "know". It has opened up communication between me and LINY for the 1st time in like 6 years. And I too, am glad I *KNOW* where my M is at and which direction we will need to proceed. However, to go and tell the OWH at this time would not be helpful (on the contrary it would be hurtful) (ONLY MY OPINION). I stated on another post - I have not been in *RECOVERY* from my H's A for that long - however, I am in *RECOVERY* from depression and a breakdown (don't feel sorry for me <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) for 3 1/2 years. I will not hurt for the sake of exposure *AT THIS TIME*.

And I know I'll hear it for "the big cover-up" and aiding the OW with her lies and deceptions. Oh please, I will no longer defend this *OPINION* of mine and I will no longer be insulted and treated with this disrespect(ok WAT and ML). (I had also asked "Am I the OW or the BS???)

I will continue to "Build my Marriage" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> And perhaps even return to the site - it has been extermely helpful.

and WAT - I do not expect anyone to live their life by my standards, except for *ME* <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks everyone - As I said on another thread "I hope you have found some pearls of wisdom amongst the ruins!"

brown

#1170004 08/09/04 05:48 AM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LINY:
<strong> First of all, WAT, your tactics are down right disgusting. If you had a response to Brown, why didnt you just post it there? Not that brown nor i won't openly defend it on this "new" thread, but you mentioned pond scum about me once....(maybe that's a bit too harsh--but what's your intention WAT? I'd *REALLY* like to know!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I actually don't have any "tactics." I just call 'em the way I see 'em. You are under no obligation to read what I write nor agree with it.

I began this new thread because brown's response that I wanted to address was on some one else's thread, wasn't it? Perhaps I got that wrong. Regardless, her "tactics" are flawed. Moral, and she won't assist someone else who is in the same boat she's in? Can you pronounce "hypocrisy"?

And, by the way, I had no idea you are brown's spouse. And I had no idea that your OW's husband
still doesn't know. Which of us is more "disgusting"?

I'll take my observations elsewhere.

WAT

#1170005 08/09/04 06:10 AM
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WAT - I had no tactics. I simpley responded to another post. This has gotten blown out of proportion.

You are entitled to your own opinion - as is LINY - myself and anyone esle on this forum ....
You did not *NEED* to attack me for mine.

I responded to you once .... Judge and Jury? Let the punish fit the crime ... ya know bankrobbers and adulterers alike ... I am not the enemy here. I am the BS trying to make sense of my life in this extremely difficult time. (and you are not helping!). You have confused the issue of my not telling the OWH, with what you perceive as an attempt to show that I am *BETTER* than the rest of the world and yet you sit here and *JUDGE* me?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by brown:
<strong> Ok kids Brown will speak now. Thanks for all of your "support".

I never said I "wouldn't" tell the OWH and I neither said that was "right" or "wrong" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . I said that is what is right for *ME* at this point. I never said I wouldn't - b/c you never say never - but if push came to shove - I'll do then what is appropriate for the situation and *ME*. (And no, I am saying this in some self righteous attempt to *JUSTIFY* my opinion). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ....

I stated on another post - I have not been in *RECOVERY* from my H's A for that long - however, I am in *RECOVERY* from depression and a breakdown (don't feel sorry for me <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) for 3 1/2 years. I will not hurt for the sake of exposure *AT THIS TIME*. .....

I will continue to "Build my Marriage" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> And perhaps even return to the site - it has been extermely helpful.

and WAT - I do not expect anyone to live their life by my standards, except for *ME* <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

brown </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please re-read it

<small>[ August 09, 2004, 06:19 AM: Message edited by: brown ]</small>

#1170006 08/09/04 08:54 AM
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Happy Monday everyone! I went to sleep last night, thinking I refuse to let emotions once again overtake my mind and heart. I've reread both threads, and although harsh at times, I was merely defending the air and ground assault on my W. My three apologies that I feel warranted:
1-K--I'm sorry this all got out of hand. We are all passionate on MB <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> -can you tell?-and you will find great advice and people who are really committed to rebuild and/or recover.
2-WAT--*IF* your intention was to get off of K's thread, then yes, I am sorry. (Was that *really* your intention?)
3-brown--on the eve of my week-long vacation (I have *NEVER* taken a week off (probably not even two days in a row!) just for *US*. I'm sorry it was spent this way.

In response:
Wat
"And, by the way, I had no idea you are brown's spouse. And I had no idea that your OW's husband
still doesn't know. Which of us is more "disgusting"?

I'll take my observations elsewhere."

This was one of my points throughout the entire ping-pong match: if you do not know the entire situation, how, how can you just blindly judge someone? You simply saw someone that was not in accordance with the MB principles and/or your values (haven't figured which is weighing heavier in your eyes) and said, "No. You're wrong." If you left it at that. Fine. I can accept that. Probably would have even would have thanked you for your input. But then you start insulting. That's where *you* were wrong. I'm not saying your morals or values are wrong--the way you presented it, was.

Pmint:
Thank you for your response. I have thought about what you wrote. Thank you.

"It is not anyone's place to make a decision like this for another."

This really, was the *ONLY* point brown was trying to make on the thread--a different observation, perspective, point of view. Not that it was the ultimate right or wrong thing to do.

"LINY, you owe WAT a bigger apology than you could EVER imagine. But I doubt you are the kind to give it..............either to WAT or to your OW's husband."

I admittedly do NOT know WAT's full 411. I know he is raising a beautiful son, his wife betrayed him, and everyday he struggles to keep his head held high (which is why that pic of WAT says so much--kudos on your choice, WAT <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> ). However, I DO know that one thing is common for *ALL* MB'ers--PAIN. I do not need anyone thrashing out at the W UNNECESSARILY, and UNPROVOKED. However, I addressed that in my response above to WAT. Only he knows what his intentions were.
(Out of learning, understanding, and growth, what type of person do you think I am. You being a veteran, you may be able to shed some light on me--give me a different perspective on whoi I am--and maybe I CAN make some adjustments to become the best person I can be. Really, that's the selfish (and selfless) reason why we are all here, right?)
Thanks again! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ August 09, 2004, 08:56 AM: Message edited by: LINY ]</small>

#1170007 08/09/04 09:05 AM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> she might even take him out to dinner! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is the reason brown wont tell OWH's because she might be involved in an EA/PA with him as well?

Also, LINY are you still involved with this OW?

YOu can sit there and slam me all you want for my "accusations", but I have been thru it all! NOTHING can come to me as a surprise anymore! It really sounds to me like one or even BOTH of you is involved in an EA/PA and dont want to "hurt" the other party!

JMVHO <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

#1170008 08/09/04 09:45 AM
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M23B, good morning and thanks for your reply.

No, I'm not in the business of slamming people! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> It was your opinion! I have no problem with opinions and advice. I don't. Really! (Now, personal attacks... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> )

I was the one in the EA. And no, brown is NOT having an EA/PA with the OWH. I'm sorry if that was misconstrued. It was out of my sarcasm and a past experience that I said that, about the dinner. (Long story, short: I once lived with a previous GF before being M to brown, and when I finally broke it off as she was a sponge, an emotional leach, etc. the GF just didn't get the fact I was moving on. (Endless calls, letters, etc.) So, brown and I decided to have a "sit down" with her over dinner and explain as nicely as we could, to move on herself. That's where the dinner refernce comes in.

She is certainly not shy for something like that. If, when the time comes, she feels it necessary to tell the OWH, believe me you, she will have no qualms about letting him know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />


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