Dear Board,
I have spoken to my W and she answered some very difficult questions. I had thought so many stupid things. I've made such huge mistakes. I apologize to all of you for my actions and my foolishness. I cheated on my wife 10 years ago, though I did not intend to, it is what I did. I had an EA which did turn into a PA. I was young, dumb, misinformed, selfish and depressed when I met OW. I was a complete fool. At the time me and my W were struggling to make ends meet. I had been the provider, though ill-equipped with direction to lead my family or deal with the many pressures I was facing. I am not making excuses, I am just stating how dumb I was. I was very very dumb. I met OW with a group of friends and it was nothing to begin with, just a friendship. My W and I were going thru problems and I turned to my friends and OW. She made me feel good about myself, I no longer felt depressed like I was losing everything. I couldn't find a job for close to a year and I was drinking heavily. I became involved with this woman and things became more and more complicated. Before I knew it I felt responsible for the OW and her children. I fooled myself into thinking I was NOT a [censored] if I helped her find a better life. While I did these stupid things my W and D suffered. This cruelty went on for years, approximately 4 or so. I had tried to mend things with my wife during that time we even had another child, moved into a terrick house but I couldn't free myself of the OW. My wife and I became separated. During our separation my W met OM. I didn't know it at the time, but she was falling in love with him. I finally was able to pull myself from OW and tried to reconcile with my W but I had no luck. She told me she wanted a divorce. I did not, I wanted us to fix our marriage. I could not win her back, she was involved with OM and they were in a serious relationship at this point, of course I found out later as time went on. No attempts on my part worked and I felt respoonsible for the entire collapse of our M.

This was almost 5 years ago. I began a quest to better myself as a man. My W gave me physical custody of my S and I began the process of growing. I always regretted my stupid, selfish choices and wanted her back in my life to rebuild what I had destroyed. I finally gave up on my W coming back and I continued on with my life. Her relationship with OM disintergrated due to her straddling the fence between her feelings for him and I. I am just learning of the whole truths tonight. I made such a wreck of my family! I am ashamed. OM even proposed to my W, I had no idea. My W reportedly gave him back his ring and soon after returned to me. I finally had my family back together again and I was never going to screw this up. I had changed my entire lifestyle. I had tried to do everything in my power to win back my W's love. I thought this is what she wanted as she did return after YEARS of being separated.

After 2 years of reconciling I discover that my W was still in contact with OM. I guess it became my time to be devestated. I was devestated and I sought out this website for answers. I just talked to my W and she has told me all of these truths about how she feels. She does not regret her R with OM and she resents me for not being there because of my involvement with OW. I know that I cannot discount my actions with immaturity and naivete though I was very selfish. I have changed. I am no longer a selfish 25 year old. I am a much better dad, a much better husband a much more honest, wiser man. I NEVER knew how my W felt about my actions. I had fooled myself into thinking that due to our age, me not being capable of all my responsibilities that she had somehow overlooked my stupidity and foolish ways. I was wrong.

I was beyond foolish and beyond lost. Now I feel I deserve this pain, though I have changed. I now realize how damaging my actions were and how I mistreated my W. Infact I realized this all years ago, but I had prayed I was forgiven because of my actions over the few years. I see now that my W is entitled not to love me or want to heal this marriage. I am so sorry that I ruined my life and my marriage and hurt her over and over again. I do not know if my W will ever forgive me and worse I don't think she wants to be my W. She says she only reconciled with me for the childrens sake. I have been trying to make up for my mistakes for so very long. She is not the blame, I am the blame. I hurt her years ago and now she has hurt me, but to make matters worse she doesn't feel her R with OM was wrong because I had an A. I am so very lost and confused and full of guilt. I was stupid to think that when she came back to me after 3 years that she had forgiven me and that I had an opportunity to reclaim my family as a whole, to put the pieces back together. I fear that I will not be able to do this. I am writing this to let you all know that I am sorry. I am writing this because I have not being that selfish kid in quite some time and I wish I could mend our marriage. I don't know what to do except pray that my GOD forgives me and will allow me to find peace. My W is very hurt and it is likely we will become divorced and it's all my fault. I have changed and I thought I had showed her that, but after learning how she really feels I don't think it was in time.

This is by far the lowest point of my life. I made so many mistakes and I have been trying to mend them for years now. I'm so sorry for the mess that I have created. I understand no matter how depressed, stressed or whatever I was that I had no right to start a R with someone outside my M. I did not intend to. My wife did the same, but it was following my lead and now I feel that she will never get over my confronting OM and ending their friendship. I never would've confronted OM if I knew she still wanted him and regretted giving him up to return to our M for the kids sake. I thought she returned for the same reasons as I. To rebuild and make right what went so wrong. I don't know if there's any advice anyone can give me. I was an idiot, but I have grown since then. Is it too late to turn back time? Is it too late for me to save my marriage? Am I so many years too late that it is far beyond my reach? I thought I was a good man, but I am only now a good man, years ago I was not so good and not so loving to my W. If she wants out I must let her go and accept that it is my own doing that created this mess. She is now tired and does not want to try any longer and frankly I don't feel I have a right to ask her a darn thing considering how I behaved back then. I do still love her and I regret my mistakes, but she feels that her R with OM was not wrong. She feels that she deserved to do what she did and to maintain her bond with him. I am lost, but since she has left I must find a way to be here for my children. I am so disappiointed in myself. None of my present deeds or past deeds will erase the pain I caused her in my earlier days. What can I do now?

Now at least you know the reality and you can begin working from the truth of that. Until you face the brutal rality of the truth, any attmpts to deal with it would have been in vain.

Start from today and be the best you that you can be. Plan A. All is not lost. If you want your marriage don't give up. Keep plan Aing.
C&S

Oh my gosh Familymatters....your story is so similar to mine. But you must not take the full blame for this. Your W CHOSE to get involved with OM while she was still married to you....that is NEVER right. Two wrongs do not make a right. What you did is in the past, you have repented and changed. God has forgiven you, but your W obviously has not.

I'm not going to go into my story, but it is so much like yours. I have also changed myself...too late....the damage done. I am going into Plan B this weekend. My H blames me for our failed M. I did fail him 6 years ago, but he also failed me in many ways. He has punished me for my mistake for so long that I built up a wall of protection around myself. My emotional distance set the stage for him to CHOOSE to have an A. I do not believe it is all my fault, and neither should you.

Please take care and I will pray for you and your family.

The "answer", FM, is that all you can do, you can do now. You can't change the past, neither can she. You 2 can point fingers, be martyrs, whatever, but what use is that?

I'm fond of paraphrasing the gist of Eckhart Tolle's "The Power of Now" by saying that the past and fu2re do not exist, except in our memories and imaginations. THere is only NOW.

YOu were a "bad H" in the past? Well you are a good one now. Dwelling on past mistakes is unhealthy. Learning from past mistakes is healthy, but you have 2 recognize that memories fade and transform over time. And we all remember even the same events differently (except for that day the seagull crapped on the HS superintendent's new suit right in front of hundreds of us after lunch 35 years ago - we ALL remember that the same! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ).

Likewise, it does no good spending all your time and burning calories worrying about the fu2re. It hasn't happened yet. And when it does, it will be in the NOW anyway.

Everything you do, every thought you have, every plan you make, you do NOW. Not before, not someday. Now.

I know you feel despair over what's happening. It won't be easy, perhaps, but it is important that you do look around you, take stock of what you have (kids), who you are today, and cherish those things. You can't change your W, but you can continue 2 improve you.

I happen 2 like the man you are. I don't know the one you just described. He's in the past anyway, so it's not important that I know him. The man I read about here is an honorable, thoughtful, caring man.

Your integrity will sustain you.

-ol' 2long

... Don't ask me how, but I knew it (a part of it), felt it 'in the air'... or somewhere 'between the lines'...

We all made mistakes and we all had to pay them (or still paying)...

You cannot turn back time... you cannot erase what has been done... but you can redeem some of it - by being a good father to your kids, love, support and stability in their life...

And hope, hope that as it's never too late to become a better person to be proud of, it's never too late to restart Life... now based on self-cognition should make all the difference...

<small>[ September 01, 2004, 11:44 PM: Message edited by: Belonging to Nowhere ]</small>

PS:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I happen 2 like the man you are. I don't know the one you just described. He's in the past anyway, so it's not important that I know him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Same here.
You see the answer now, FM?

Hope this time now soon will be past for your W.
And you'll be even, to restart your life together again. ;-)

FM,

My W is very hurt and it is likely we will become divorced and it's all my fault.

Not all YOUR fault! You do not take 100% of the blame. It takes two.

And while you did something that was wrong, you are sorry and have repented. God's word says if you repent, he will fogive you.

In case you haven't read my zillions of posts to all my threads, I also had an A some years ago. Not a long one--at least the P/A part wasn't long. And NO intentions of leaving my spouse. But he knew, and it allowed him to have his first A without much guilt, because he blamed me for being the first to break the vows. I've beat myself up over it and other things that have happened. But the point is, I truly am sorry, I have asked for forgiveness from God and from my WH (or STBXH I guess he is now). I am trying hard to never put myself in situations that would lead me to where I went years ago. I am sorry. And I have to be able to let go of the guilt and move on now.

You do, too.

LL

FM, I also felt that your story was somehow incomplete.

I don't have all that much to add to the wisdom you've got from everybody (well except for 2long <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ), but anyway...

You're a fine man. You have overcome the mistakes of your past, but are still feeling their consequences. But 100% your fault if it ends? I know you must be thinking if I hadn't done this in the first place, etc. This type of thinking is useless to you, and it fools you into thinking you have such mastery of your world that if you are perfect, no harm will ever befall you. You need to let go of that part. You're here. Suck it up. There is nothing you can do about the past. Your regret can gain you nothing but the wisdom you've already taken from it.

Did that make ANY sense at all? Well, whatever, you are where you are, and you are who you are. If your M ends, you will have to accept your part in that, but never believe you have such power that everything is your fault.

Now, in my case, if my M ends, it is totally the fault of my WW. But I'm special. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Let's have you get through the emotions you're experiencing right now, and when you have a clear mind you can start planning for what comes next.

G'night,

GC

How are you, my friend? Long day, eh? You still breathing though, right? You--to emphasize ol2--right now, still are "Family Matters", right? Just checking. What's that?!?!? [Taking out my nerf 2X4}. What did I tell you?!?! Quit beating yourself up--that's why you have us! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> I'll get back to you in a sec...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Belonging to Nowhere:
... Don't ask me how, but I knew it (a part of it), felt it 'in the air'... or somewhere 'between the lines'...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">[reaching to my right, grabbing the "real" one]: Get over yourself, BTN...this is not some f#$%ing game. I'm disappointed in your comment. Wasn't necessary.

...OK...feel a little better. Do you? I wish I knew how to double-quote. Woulda used most of what ol2 said. Quite frankly, don't care of who you *were*. Who are you now, FM? Now repeat after me: "I am Family Matters--NOW!" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> That is what matters--the here and now. I, too, don't know who you were several years ago. Honestly don't care (no offense <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .) But, I do know the man now. Good guy, strong, intelligent, big-a$$ heart to boot...(Deja vu...I said that not too long ago...Still holds true, FM.) I'm sorry your wife can't see that now.

Advice? Still don't think I'm in no ways able to give any. *Quit beating yourself up. You can probably kick the $hit out of yourself, anyway. That's no fun. *Keep at your plan. *And, something tells me you still didn't get to the doc to get some AD's.

Oh, keep your head up, friend.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> OMG!! FM is....


human.

You made some bad decisions in the past. You've acknowledged them and learned from them, right? (I think it's safe for me to answer my question with a big ol' yes there). Like everybody else has said, don't beat yourself up over it. Use what you've learned to help deal with the present.

And it's not all your fault.

And I think you've grown into a much better person since then. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thank you all for your kind words though I feel I don't deserve them. I have no words to describe my shame or my pain at this time. I know I must learn to forgive myself, but how can I? Once upon a time in a world far away a very special woman loved me adn I tore her heart out. While I was busy trying to be rescue others I lost my way home. She happened upon another man and fell in love. They had plans to marry. I earned her love back, or so I thought. She never let go of that OM and now I'm the bad man again, for tearing her heart out twice. I honestly never looked at it that way. I thought my present deeds had some negated my earlier stupidity and cruelty. I will pray for forgiveness again tonight as I've never prayed before. Family does matter it just took me too long to realize it and now I'm afraid nothing I do will can change her resentment. It's quite possible I'm the one who is in the fog. The fog of thinking I could redeem myself and restore my family. I am sorry for being so down, but I had no idea the reachings of her R with OM or how she truly felt about me. Once upon a time I was her best friend and protector, I relinquished my place and for what? At least she was on the verge of marrying OM, I had no intentions of M OW I was just too full of guilt to leave OW totally or return totally. It's hard to explain, but it's my story and I wish it wasn't.

{{{{{FM}}}}}

All I can do br'a.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LINY:I wish I knew how to double-quote.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Type [ QUOTE] (no space here) then text then (no space here either) [/QUOTE].

For a 'quote in quote': [ QUOTE] text [quote/]text [/QUOTE]

Or simply if you click on "reply with quote" above each message, you'll see how all of this looks like.


---
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />
My words were for FM!!... for I felt he would understand...
Right, FM? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ September 02, 2004, 06:09 AM: Message edited by: Belonging to Nowhere ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Belonging to Nowhere:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LINY:I wish I knew how to double-quote.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Type [ QUOTE] (no space here) then text then (no space here either) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">.

For a 'quote in quote': [ QUOTE] text [quote/]text [/QUOTE]

Or simply if you click on "reply with quote" above each message, you'll see how all of this looks like.


---
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />
My words were for FM!!... for I felt he would understand...
Right, FM? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> </strong>[/QUOTE]

Yes I do understand, it hurts but I understand...
no offense taken...At the moment I feel too low to be offended by anything other than the words pounding inside of my head. It'll be a couple days before outside digs will even resonate <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I do have one issue, which I did leave a message for my W and ask or eluded to I might say. If I had known how she felt and the full-extent of her R with OM then I wouldn't have expected so much. I have been working so hard over the last 2 years that we were back together. You people have no idea, her every wish was my command. She didn't even have to ask, if she even mentioned something like...hey I like the way the moon looks tonight, I was up all day trying to negotiate the stars to allow the moon to duplicate the exact position that struck her interest.

If I had only known how she felt I could have done somethings different, I also wouldn't have been kicking myself for the last 2 years wondering WHY isn't anything I'm doing really bringing us closer??? I know I made big mistakes in the past, I am not discounting the facts, all I'm trying to convey is when I wanted my family to reunite it wasn't just for the children. She tells me after banging my head for 2 years that she only did it for the children? I hope this is not too much of an LB coming from a FWH, but I really wish she would have told me when we could have sought counseling or tried to work on it. I feel like now she only tells me because she is GONE. I realize now that her wounds had been healed when we reconciled. I just wish I would have had an opportunity to know that when I could have been more supportive, more patient and more understanding. I feel like I just got fired from my dream job because of poor work performance, but I was never given a Job Description. Oh well I guess once you make a big mistake like mine it's pretty selfish to complain about truths. I have really no room to complain, but I am sorry that I didn't know. I didn't reconcile just for my children, I reconciled for HER and I as well. I still love her.

I would have rented a JEt and had them sky write that I loved her and I was so sorry, if I had known. I would have taken 2 months salary and took her to Italy and proposed again on my hands and knees at the leaning Tower of Pisa.

I cannot accept that she really believes her R with OM continuing during our reconciliation had nothing to do with her feeling that she only reconciled for the childrens sake. I have pictures of us laughing and smiling and loving each other during this time frame. I am beyond confused. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

FM,

We're all human. I have a couple of quick comments now and will write more tonight. Do you have ANY contact now with your OW? Next, there has been a thread about the pain of WS when they pierce the fog and realize the intense pain and destruction they have inflicted. It drifts quickly into dispare so keep your head right now. Dispare saps your strength and you feel unable to act or decide anything. ONE STEP at a time.

First, You KNOW the forgiveness of God so hit your knees and cry out to HIM. He will carry you through this low.

Second, It ain't even close to over. FAITH, HOPE and LOVE! Your W is in the fog now so realize the things she is saying is fog-talk. It's a rollercoaster...it will be up one day, down the next. Hang on for a ride, but it sounds like your wanting to make it to the end.

If she's staying to maintain "family" that's still good. The love between you two CAN re-ignite. Don't give up... Don't loose hope. It's a battle your in.

You have plenty of friends out here that will help and pray. Stay focused. One baby step at a time. Don't "Imagine" what might happen way down the road. It just causes "freak out" moments of panic. One step.

We only have today... tomorrow is just that.

{{{{{FM}}}}}

2scared

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2scared:
<strong> FM,

have a couple of quick comments now and will write more tonight. Do you have ANY contact now with your OW? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Absolutely NOT! I have blocked her phone numbers, blocked her email addresses. I have sent a no contact letter. It's my W who still wanted to stay in touch with her ex NOT me. I wanted this to work and I was not going to do anything to jeopardize that opportunity. I understand the FOG oh too well, look what FOG did to me, but when we agreed to reconcile I was like HERE"S MY CHANCE..look at me do the HAPPY MAN DANCE!

I shut out everything I had done, anyone I had seen during our separation. I narrowed my life down to ONE friend. A friend I've known for 15 years that my wife knows as well. A friend that used to berate me when I was in the FOG and entangled with OW. I have since even limited contact with him because he is so sad for me, it hurts him too much for me to discuss my M issues with him. Not to mention he is NOT M so he doesnt really grasp the WHY'S.

I will look for the thread that you speak of regarding the despair. I do feel it. I see the depths of her pain now. It's very difficult, mainly because she doesn't see her R while we were married as an A because we were separated and she asked for a divorce. The truth is she asked for the divorce when I asked if we could end the separation. I now know that she had been developing feelings for OM during our separation and when I wanted to return she had to chose and she chose OM. I cannot blame her because I sat on the fence for a long time, keeping her in limbo. I was wrong, she was wrong. I have no justification for my wrongs, but to her she does. Her justifications are my wrongs (at least to her).

I have many excuses but no justifications. Life is hard, I was young, I was depressed are all cop outs. I don't care who's right, I just want my M to survive. I don't mind carrying full responsibility for everything. I can handle it. I can eat crow, but I will not walk away without a fight. I've devoted the last 2 years of my life to saving this M and I can swallow my pride and accept she continued her R with OM during our reconciliation. I don't care about that at the moment. I care about this M surviving. I am very weary, I've read some posts from BW's here and many of them don't seem very encouraging for idiots like myself <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I am not fogged into rationalizing anything and I've been trying to make amends for years now, even crimminals get released at some point and an opportunity to contribute to society right? Pepper, Orchid, Melody, 2Long, somebody please tell my W that I love her in the right words that I'm too thick headed to say correctly. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I didn't just end my A last week. I've made my decisions late but not that late. I've been fighting for an opportunity to be a good H for YEARS. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Cheers to you FM!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

* clink *

You can see clearly now!!

It may not be easy but nothing worthwhile ever is!

Regroup, start planning and SING !!!

I Can See Clearly Now
Jimmy Cliff
(Cool Runnings Soundtrack)

I can see clearly now the rain is gone
I can see all obstacles in my way
Gone are the dark clouds that had me blind
It's gonna be a bright, bright sunshinin' day
It's gonna be a bright, bright sunshinin' day

I think I can make it now the pain is gone
All of the bad feelings have disappeared
Here is the rainbow I've been praying for
It's gonna be a bright, bright sunshinin' day

Look all around, there's nothing but blue skies
Look straight ahead, there's nothing but blue skies

I can see clearly now the rain is gone
I can see all obstacles in my way
Gone are the dark clouds that had me blind
It's gonna be a bright, bright sunshinin' day
It's gonna be a bright, bright sunshinin' day
Real, real, real, real bright, bright sunshinin' day
Yeah, hey, it's gonna be a bright, bright sunshinin' day

WOW, FM, what good advice you are getting from your friends here at MB...If some of it could just penetrate your heart...especially IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT THAT YOUR W HAD AN AFFAIR AND KEPT IN CONTACT AFTER....and YOU ARE A GREAT GUY!

Some words that don't help us:
If only I'd....
I should have...
It's not fair...(Life isn't Fair.)

The past is the past....at the time, you were probably almost led or driven to have this affair...it happened! It's past and over....

Your wife is every bit as guilty...as they say here, "If just one person says NO, there would be no affairs..

All you can do is go on with your life the best you can and only you can decide what the BEST is for you.
Love, Julie <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

P.S. Your wife had a choice years ago...she could have simply forgiven you. She surely understands your affair, now that she has been fog-bound herself with an OM?????

FamilyMatters, I am so sorry for the pain and guilt you are going through right now. I understand that you are very disappointed and angry with yourself. Guilt can do you no good. I know that's easy to say and hard to let it go. But you have changed! You must believe in yourself right now. And you must believe that your current path of negotiating a reconciliation is the right one. I hesitate to bring up religion because I'm not sure if you believe in God or not. But if you do...give this one to God, FamilyMatters. You MUST have faith that He knows what is in your heart and is taking care of you and your family. I'm getting the feeling (and I might be wrong) that your current state of being is something that's pretty hard for you to handle right now. So let God help you. God has forgiven you. If you continue to relentlessly feel guilt, continue to relentlessly repent..well, what's He gonna do with that? He's already forgiven you and cannot help you forward until you take the first step. Try it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> And if you do not believe in God or have a strong faith, then let me know..grin..I'll give you my other thoughts.

FamilyMatters, you have the perspective of a spouse who has been betrayed, but who feels they caused that betrayal themselves. I think most of us feel that to a certain extent, but you're in a "tit for tat" situation--or at least that is how you and your wife seem to be viewing it. You know in your heart that there is no justification. You're not allowing yourself to justify, don't let your wife. Sometimes empathizing and understanding the actions of someone who is hurting you is very hurtful in itself.

I wish I had the right words for you.