I just want to ask the women of this board (ow,mw,bw) if Child Support was not demanded by law in USA would you be more careful with your birth control choices and the men you have sex with, knowing in the end you could ultimately be solely responsible for that life? I personally don't by an accidental pregnancy from women, I believe that women either just leave it up to chance (no BC or don't use it correctly on purpose, like skipping a pill etc) and hope for the best in the end or they want the baby but know that the man wouldn't have the baby unless forced. I don't believe that a man should be obligated to a child he never wanted in the first place, even if he did not use birth control himself. Nor should a woman be obligated to a child she didn't want either and women ultimately have the final say on what happens once she gets pregnant. I'm all for adoption, abortion (but not as a BC choice) and this is not about where the COUPLE (M or not) agreed together, planned, wanted the baby together.
I personally am fighting the urge to have another baby "accidentally" but I know that my family is not ready for that yet. I want another baby so badly, I'm 33 and time is running out but I don't want to put the extra weight of a new baby on an entire family that isn't ready for it, just to satisfy my own wants. Since coming off the pill a few months ago I have to force myself every time I have sex to use 2 (more during the week of ovulation) forms of protection and it sucks big time since we have a very active sex life! But thats what responsible women do, right? I'm trying to do whats right by my unborn, not even conceived, baby and give it the best possible circumstances I can provide to come into this world with. Not the dark desperate act of an OW trying to get the MM during an A or the act of a hurt BW trying to fix the marriage damaged due to infidelity. (this is not directed at anyone here)
It makes me wonder am I the only woman who has these feelings and can openly admit it? If there were no CS laws, would women be more responsible for their birth control?

<small>[ September 22, 2004, 07:23 AM: Message edited by: Gwenieinabottle ]</small>

"I personally don't by an accidental pregnancy from women, I believe that women either just leave it up to chance (no BC or don't use it correctly on purpose, like skipping a pill etc) and hope for the best in the end or they want the baby but know that the man wouldn't have the baby unless forced. I don't believe that a man should be obligated to a child he never wanted in the first place, even if he did not use birth control himself. Nor should a woman be obligated to a child she didn't want either and women ultimately have the final say on what happens once she gets pregnant."

Well, you can believe whatever you want, even if it is completely wrong and without basis. I got pg when my first daughter was 15 months old. I was taking the pill, and DID NOT MISS ONE and I got pregnant with triplets. So, obviously it happens. And I was not planning on having any more children for another couple of years.

You don't believe a man should be responsible for a child he doesn't want, but yet you want to "accidentally" get pregnant and do just that to your husband? Forgive me if this seems a contradiction. Every child should be wanted by both parents. Not only that, it is very disrespectful of your marriage and husband to make such an important decision unilaterally. What if he is not pleased? You could be putting your marriage in jeopardy.

However, that being said - any man who has sex with a woman and does not ensure that precautions are taken, is in fact, accepting the possibility that pregnancy could occur. If one is not willing to accept that possibility, one should not be having sex. Or, be willing to deal with the consequences. The same goes for women. Birth control is not 100% effective all the time.

Actually I don't fit this mold at ALL. Of course my beautiful babies are no longer babies. My no longer teenage son, and my darling daughter are from my 1st marriage that ended due to DV a very very long time ago.

After years of abuse, I gathered my babies, and I left. Son was 3...daughter 9 months old.

CS ?

Hell no. These are MY gifts... I'LL provide for them.

And that I did. Took my silly butt BACK to college, became an accountant, and supported my babies, alone.

Everyone told me it wasn't fair to my children. FAIR....is removing them from a home full of violence..so he can keep his child support...I'll take my blessings ANY day.

oh and yes...my son continues to try to have a relationship with his Dad, my daughter...sees him for what he is..and tolerates his presence. His loss. I never bad mouthed him, spoke poorly of him...not anything like that. But when they reached the teenage years, I no longer sugar coated anything.

He thinks he got off easy, in reality, he missed out on an awesome experience.My babies go to sleep every night knowing...Mom is here...today, tomorrow and always, whenever I need her, for whatever I need. Unconditional love at it's finest.

Provided we're talking about adult concensual sex, BOTH PARTIES are responsible for conceiving said child, if that indeed occurs.

P-E-R-I-O-D


PLEASE READ MY SIG TAG LINE, Gwenie. Then contemplate the idea that because of what I have been thru (2 OCs), believing as you do would be MUCH easier for me. But I KNOW that my ex-H was just as responsible/fault as the two OW involved.

<small>[ September 20, 2004, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

the absence or prescense of child support laws should have no impact on an indivuduals view on their own sexuality...

would you be more careful with your birth control choices and the men you have sex with,knowing in the end you could ultimately be solely responsible for that life?

each invidual present at the creation of life is solely responsible for that life regardless and inspite of any law that exists...

Nor should a woman be obligated to a child she didn't want either and women ultimately have the final say on what happens once she gets pregnant

If a woman doesn't feel that she would be obligated to a child...then she has no business engaging in sex at all....

I don't understand your post at all really..
are you married ?
are you the OP in an affair.?..

All people should be careful of whom they have sex with..
sex is a gift from God and should never be used as a tool or in a disrespectful ways towards oneself or their partner...

there must be more important factors in choosing a man to have sex with other than some law that mandates child support...

I am beginging to think the person you want to have a baby with..is not your husband....
otherwise why would you question your husbands financial obligation??

ARK

I don't think you understand what child support is... It's not a reward for giving birth or a penalty for having sex. It's for the CHILD.

If you don't want to have children, then don't have unprotected sex...or better yet, if you want to be 100% sure, don't have sex at all.

Children are a blessing. I don't understand why anyone would support killing them. It seems children lives are taken so lightly and viewed disposable if not convenient...and now we get this "punish the sperm/egg donor" by withholding money to raise that child. The one who suffers is the truly innocent. It's insane!

This same reasoning is given to kill the elderly, the sick and the handicapped. If they are inconvenient let us dispose of them. It's sick!

Why anyone would think it would be a good idea to deprive a child in order to control other people's behavior surely comes from immuturity or a truly selfish soul. Where is the compassion in the sufferings of another? Who would proport to advance cruelty to the innocent? I would be ashamed to even espouse such a horrible notion.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Gwenieinabottle:
[QB] I just want to ask the women of this board...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I honestly was going to leave this thread alone. However, once you brought the "man" into the discussion, I have the "need" to express my opinion, which does not differ from many others that have responded. I have alot to respond to--again, much in the same responses you have already gotten--to the other statements, but will refrain from my fingers to type anything more than the "man" statement you referred to. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't believe that a man should be obligated to a child he never wanted in the first place, even if he did not use birth control himself. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">With any action in life, any decision to be made, there are possible or inevitable consequences. EVERY choice that is made. Free will. What a lovely thing, eh?

Why should having sex--with the possible "consequence" of conceiving in mind--be considered an "obligation?" If he never "wanted in the first place", then he should have kept his trousers up. PERIOD! If conception does occur, he should understand and realize that--DUH!--this could be a possibility and be prepared for what may happen. And take responsibility.

I am a firm believer of "everything happens for a reason; there's no such thing as a coincidence." But there are ways of being prepared: mentally, physically, and spiritually. And, of course, these should all imfluence decisions we make.

If a child is just an "obligation" as you are insinuating, the man being referred to here should:
1) Keep it in his pants;
2) Have a masectomy (sp).
There's no taking a "chance" when a child is concerned.

Regarding child support? IMHO, if a man is "forced" to pay child support, he should have had no business having sex in the first place.

(NJ: see my kudos to you on a different thread.)

1) Keep it in his pants;

good idea.... unless "it" needs airing out coz it's smelly !

2) Have a masectomy (sp).

strange.... perhaps you meant "vasectomy".... but LINY has his own way of expressing his thoughts! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ....

Pep

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

LMAO!!!!
I will *NOT* edit!

My intention was not to hurt anyone here or imply that I was going to get pg with out discussing it with my H but that I want a baby badly now but know the timing is wrong. I wanted to share my feelings and it was my first post so maybe I assumed too much about this board. I don't mind, in fact I welcome the male point of view to my question. I was just thinking out loud maybe.
I will say that I should clarify my question by saying that there are probably a few (VERY FEW) real accidental pregnancies and that most of time I think the woman's subconscious knows that it was a deliberate pg. I'm not saying that a man should not be responsible for the children he wanted to help create but that why is it the law? I don't know why it must be a forced issue. I don't care if your M or not but having a child should be a mutual decision by both parties and I'm sick of seeing women using their bodies and babies like their playing a game of Chess.
I can't imagine not being responsible for my kids, neither would H. He wanted them, loves them, adores them and pays CS happily for them, he is a great Dad. However the CS for OC is not the same, he never wanted a baby with her (she said she was on the pill, which was a lie)and he never loved her. But now he will pay for 18yrs for a decision she made to get pg, just doesn't seem fair to me. I could go and have a child right now with any man willing to whip it out but is that fair to the man, to myself? or more importantly is that fair to the child I created? And then to make the other party pay for it for 18 yrs??
Don't really want to post to much information but I am a BW with an OC to deal with. I don't want to share the specifics of my H's A but the basics are that he had a brief physical (not emotional) A with a co-worker (real original), she got pg on purpose because she wanted another baby but her H is "fixed". I believe she was an ok person who made a terrible mistake, like my H did. On D-day, I went straight to the doctor's office for STD testing, followed by a visit to my lawyer's office, picked up my 5month and toddler at daycare, packed my bags and left. I divorced him and didn't look back, much.
3 yrs later, we've calmed down and are completely different people. I dated other people but he didn't and he was never with OW again, she tried to work on her M too but it failed and she is now D, my then xH wanted NC with OW or OC. My CS was filed before her's so her CS from H did not affect my children but it was a legal battle since she was married at the time of birth. xH and I fell in love again by last X-mas and are re-married with a pre-nuptial that states CS will be filed with the state for our children that way they are protected and all assets are listed in my name only, we still share everything and it not like he actually pays me CS every month but its all on paper and legal so the kids and me are safe from anything in the future and the CS for OC does not effect my kids support. I would think the above statement would piss my OW and other OW off but its what I needed in the relationship and H happily gave it. Even though I love him again, I wanted to protect myself and our kids plus I will never trust him 100% ever again. We did counseling and it went great but I don't believe anyone should trust another partner so 100% completely that your blind to the fact that they are a human who makes mistakes! I'm not his Mom and I don't check up on him or have any other rules, if he wants to cheat again, he will and there isn't a damn thing I could do to stop it and it goes the same way for him too. My body and mind want another baby but our family is just now back together and needs more time to heal as a unit before we (thats H and I together) introduce another baby. I can prevent an unplanned pregnancies and still have a great sex life, I don't understand why some other women can't?
Sorry to say this, but I've been a lurker for awhile now and some of these marriages are just not meant to survive and some women need to be stronger for themselves and their families. But you have to use your head more than her heart to ensure your protection first and then listen to your heart. Also just want to add that its the actions of the WS that need to be watched not the words. If he isn't showing you remorse, love, affection, honesty, respect and a willingness to do everything in his power to make it right in your M, then let that be the hard and painful answer to your questions about the future of your M. And for those who are with serial cheaters, get out now. If he cheated once, sees the pain he caused you and then does it again and again to you, he doesn't care for anyone but himself. The most important thing I can add is to say that NO matter what your M was like, the A is your WS responsiblity and has little or nothing to do with you but everything to do with the WS.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Gwenieinabottle:
<strong> I'm not saying that a man should not be responsible for the children he wanted to help create but that why is it the law? I don't know why it must be a forced issue. I don't care if your M or not but having a child should be a mutual decision by both parties and I'm sick of seeing women using their bodies and babies like their playing a game of Chess. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, having a child should be a mutual decision. However, the old saying comes to mind "if you can't do the time don't do the crime." Not exactly on point, but the idea is that if you choose an action (and obviously I'm talking about a choice to have sex here) then you are also *choosing* to accept the possible consequences. Period.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>
However the CS for OC is not the same, he never wanted a baby with her (she said she was on the pill, which was a lie)and he never loved her. But now he will pay for 18yrs for a decision she made to get pg, just doesn't seem fair to me. I could go and have a child right now with any man willing to whip it out but is that fair to the man, to myself? or more importantly is that fair to the child I created? And then to make the other party pay for it for 18 yrs?? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yep. Child support is for the CHILD- who is completely innocent of anything his mother may- or may not- have done. sorry - I feel little sympathy for a man complaining about having to pay child support for HIS child. Unless he was raped- he's responsible. PERIOD.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>
I can prevent an unplanned pregnancies and still have a great sex life, I don't understand why some other women can't?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, two responses here. One- there are accidental pregnancies. And two- you are still missing the point here- child support is NOT to reward the mother - it is to care for the innocent child.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> Sorry to say this, but I've been a lurker for awhile now and some of these marriages are just not meant to survive and some women need to be stronger for themselves and their families. But you have to use your head more than her heart to ensure your protection first and then listen to your heart.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I see amazingly strong women and men here every day. It takes incredible strength to stick it out and to give the marriage a chance to recover. Not all marriages end up working out obviously...but I have the utmost respect for the BS who choose to try to work through the chaos and heal their marriage before bailing.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> The most important thing I can add is to say that NO matter what your M was like, the A is your WS responsiblity and has little or nothing to do with you but everything to do with the WS. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well...yes and no. The A IS the WS responsiblity. Nothing excuses an A. However, that doesn't mean that the marriage doesn't need work from BOTH spouses.

I'm sorry for what you have gone through- it is an incredibly difficult situation you have had to deal with. I simply don't agree with well..just about anything in your post.

I wish you the best.

Genie,
You are doing the right thing in as much that you will not take it upon yourself to make a decision to concieve another child. A M is a partnership and both you and your H should be able to negoitate your needs, wants and most precious desires, this is true intimacy. I'm not sure if I follow the rest of your post, but I do know that there are many WOMEN who relegate men to UnWitting Sperm Donors, but there are also MEN who see it as a show of MASCULINITY to create as many babies as possible. I actually met a guy who was what 35 with 8 kids by 5 different WOMEN! I couldn't relate to his selfish stupidity, but I was able recognize it for what it was; a warped sense of manhood.

One thing is certain, if everytime a man slept with some WOMAN he barely knew he actually THOUGHT about the REALITY that he could be CREATING a child with this woman that would FOREVER tie him to her financially, spritually and emotionally etc..there would be alot LESS children in single family homes, a lot less children without fathers, and alot less CHILD SUPPORT! IMHO, we are all 100% responsible for our actions, whether there were intentional or otherwise is merely a technicality. Your H intentionally had intercourse with OW, unless she raped him....sorry lady but pregnancy is one of the FEW things that HAS NO GRAY AREA,
you get what you pay for. Done and Doner.

Oppps i meant GWENIE and like LINY said...

I will not EDIT... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Be good to yourself

Hi Gwenieinabottle ,

just wanted to say that I think I understand what you are trying to get over to us.

If there was not such a thing as "Child Support" then there probably wouldn't be so many accidental pregnancys.

I agree completely!!!! I am "NOT SAYING" that "ALL" accidental pregnancys happen on purpose but I do believe that less woman would become pregnant.

Of course men are just as responsible as woman are when it comes to BC but if a woman does decide to become pregnant without the man agreeing, it hard for a guy to prevent it.(unless he gets a vasectomy)

This is my opinion and I've seen many women that have gotten pregnant without the men wanting to have a baby. Alot of these woman were out for the "child support" and they didn't want to work.

take care
bb

Gwen, I have a fairly long reply (what else is new? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) that I have already written in my head. However, from the sounds of your post, you won't be reading/posting any longer. Please let me/us know if that is the case or not. I will spare everyone from another long, LINY post! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> For *NOW*!