3, I have seen your thread floating around, but this is the 1st chance I've had to read it. Like Hiny, I feel you have always been there for me. I don't have anything that great to say except a few thoughts.

My H never wrote a NC letter. He really couldn't because OW could technically sue him for sexual harrassment, even though she clearly was the aggressor. We have talked about when the 2 yrs. are up that she can file I might want him to write something to her. I actually feel more of a desire to write to her myself. There are so many things I would like to say. I am very much like you in my feelings for the witch. The NC letter is nice, but you know what? The WS can write it and then continue contact. Concerning cell phones, my H didn't change his number. I figure that if he wants to contact OW he'll find a way. There are so many ways a WS can lie if they want to. Maybe I'm delusional, but I feel like I'll know something is wrong if this happens again, and our M will be over.

Have you and your H done specific recovery work? If you get a chance read what I wrote on 2334 pem's thread in Recovery. I gave a quick outline of part of the plan Steve Harley gave us. Bottom line is both partners need to understand how and why the A occurred, and protect the M so it will never happen again. The BS has to eventually feel protected.

I also wondered if your H is on an AD, or has ever been in IC. Moodiness and anger in a man can indicate depression. I put up with my H's depression for years. It would come out as irritability. When he was finally treated it made a world of difference. Hang in there 3! CV

He said, I ain't saying anything cause I do not care who called cause I will not answer my phone fro any # that I do not know so that if its her or anyone she even knows I do not have to speack to them and tell them anything about my LIFE !

this sentence...
wow is really a powerful statement of protection....IF you believe that is possible...

Is it possible threeis...you got a man on your hands who really does not want A THING to do with her...
the thought of contact terrifies him cause he KNOWS the price...

is his knee jerking screaming JERKINESS his fear of losing you...

and are you capable of beleiving that is possible...

that statement is a huge huge protection statement of ones spouse....

can you see it that way at all??

ark

I thought you forgot me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Can I see that he has fear about looseing me ??
Can I see he wants NOTHING to do with the DRAMA anymore ???

WELL In a small way yes ,,, I don't mean to be pesemistic ,,, (I think thats the word or B1tchy might be more blunt for me LOL )

But because it bothers me so much , shouldn't it be his fear that he is hurting me by not wanting to tell her ?

I FEAR that he doesn't want the DRAMA or LOOSING me in the way for he wants to PROTECT HIMSELF MORE ...

Is he not answering for ME , HIM, OR more for HER !

See his fear is answering will lead to more lies him still not telling her he is home witch in turn would give her open door to continue calling for freindship or what ever ...

Bottom line is this is never about ME or the M ...Its about PROTECTING his lies to her and her family ...

To prove that he was never a [censored] to her that he did not scam her in any way .... and thats not true ,,, from the way he told me ...

OK thats unfair ,,he diden't get involved to scam her he was helping her in life and things went to far and he did not know how to jump out cause of all the lies ... WHAT EVER ..

Should I try to convince myself that he is doing it for the fear of looseing me ???

I am the first person to admit my H is very selfish ,, He wanted it to go away so he wouldn't be faced with it .. He does/did feel horriable for what he did to HER ... So there for would not want her to feel horriable with the trueth ..

DOES this make sense to you ? You know the way a WS says they do not tell the HOLE DETAIL of the A cause they feel they are saving the BS from the pain and PROTECTING them ....

WELL thats how he is with HER !

He hurt her but saw no need to destroy her self-esteem ...
THAT hurts me and he knows it .. WE have communicated this to one another ,, his best answer is BUT we are together and YOU have the trueth so whats the difference if she does ...

IF IF she knew that he was home ,,, then yes I could not ask for a better FWS ignoring the calls or any possiablity of one ... BUT SHE DON"T KNOW FOR FACT !

She could assume all this time ,, but doesn't know , witch in turn is what bothers me ...

I mean really bothers me ..

I thank you so much ARK ,, You do make me think , and reach deep down in me ..

I love him and know he has a good heart , I do know he doesn't want to hurt me with intent , I know he wants it to not be an issue , for the most part I do trust him in the normal way , we/I have made that progress ,, He is very stressed and under alot of pressure but I can't let that be an excuse for me not to share my feelings and thoughts with him when I am hurting .. even though he tells me that it will be adding to his stress ... I belive it could be dangerous to the R to be apart of that stress with this issue ..

BUT I still have to be true to myself ..

threeis..

do you think the OW cares at this point?

do you think she is hurting from this...
or do you think she has moved on....

do you want him to verbally end it..

for her sanity
or for her punishment? (not trying to be tough on ya....)

cause she deserves to "know"
or cause you want her hurt as you have hurt...

hhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

ARK

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ark^^:
<strong> threeis..

do you think the OW cares at this point?

do you think she is hurting from this...
or do you think she has moved on....

do you want him to verbally end it..

for her sanity
or for her punishment? (not trying to be tough on ya....)

cause she deserves to "know"
or cause you want her hurt as you have hurt...

hhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

ARK </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think yes , she cares , why ? GUT feeling
Hurting , YES , but not enough , caring it with her is more the lines I am thinking ,, how do I come to this well ,based on convos of her personalty and life back round .

MOVED ON ? NO not totally thats my fear .

Verbally end it ?? YEP!

NOW here comes the HONESTY PART ,,, for her sanity or punishment ???

PUNISHMENT ! is that so terraible , even if it hurts her I know in my heart it will not hurt her enough ,,, (is that to rough LOL)

I won't beat around the bush ,, I HATE HER and no PUNISHMENT would probbly be enough for me .
I have regrets that I did not got after her mentally and PHISCLY (sp) ..

Is that sick , do I need a couch to lay on ?? DO NOT ANSWER that one ..

Do I hate H with this venom NO , is he the one who made the vows YES ,, BUT and always is ...

That is between me and him ,,, SHE is an outsider ,someone I feel TOOK , STOLE from me !

SHE continued on and said, sick things about the emotions of my children ,, and other things ..

DID I feel this venom toward my H ,,YES ,, I am not assamed to admit that .. has that gone away with forgiveness yes ,,,

BUT forgiving her is something that I just can't do ..

ARK I thank you much for talking ,, I have been lets say strangely affected by this event , and it may seem minor to alot of others but it continues to haunt me that OW is avoided , so she can be protected from PAIN in witch SHE deserves !

2 weeks ago I woke up with this feeling that I shoild help people , you know be nice do small things that some times day to day we over look ..

SO all day while out I did ,, you know help the old lady with bags, another women loading her car with 3 small chilren ,, some one droped something pick it up instead of how we sometimes walk by ...ECT..

BUT I saw a young mother looking like other women with her D getting out of school and caring groseries the bag broke on the way to the car ,,,
I kept walking ,,, why ,,, I saw her invisioned other women and all I could think was I hope her apples roll to the street and the garbage truck doesn't see HER !

Nasty I know ,, not very GOD like at all .. BUT very real for me ,,, thats where I am at with XOW !

sorry so long !

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ark^^:
<strong> threeis..

do you think the OW cares at this point?

do you think she is hurting from this...
or do you think she has moved on....

do you want him to verbally end it..

for her sanity
or for her punishment? (not trying to be tough on ya....)

cause she deserves to "know"
or cause you want her hurt as you have hurt...

hhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

ARK </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think yes , she cares , why ? GUT feeling
Hurting , YES , but not enough , caring it with her is more the lines I am thinking ,, how do I come to this well ,based on convos of her personalty and life back round .

MOVED ON ? NO not totally thats my fear .

Verbally end it ?? YEP!

NOW here comes the HONESTY PART ,,, for her sanity or punishment ???

PUNISHMENT ! is that so terraible , even if it hurts her I know in my heart it will not hurt her enough ,,, (is that to rough LOL)

I won't beat around the bush ,, I HATE HER and no PUNISHMENT would probbly be enough for me .
I have regrets that I did not got after her mentally and PHISCLY (sp) ..

Is that sick , do I need a couch to lay on ?? DO NOT ANSWER that one ..

Do I hate H with this venom NO , is he the one who made the vows YES ,, BUT and always is ...

That is between me and him ,,, SHE is an outsider ,someone I feel TOOK , STOLE from me !

SHE continued on and said, sick things about the emotions of my children ,, and other things ..

DID I feel this venom toward my H ,,YES ,, I am not assamed to admit that .. has that gone away with forgiveness yes ,,,

BUT forgiving her is something that I just can't do ..

ARK I thank you much for talking ,, I have been lets say strangely affected by this event , and it may seem minor to alot of others but it continues to haunt me that OW is avoided , so she can be protected from PAIN in witch SHE deserves !

2 weeks ago I woke up with this feeling that I shoild help people , you know be nice do small things that some times day to day we over look ..

SO all day while out I did ,, you know help the old lady with bags, another women loading her car with 3 small chilren ,, some one droped something pick it up instead of how we sometimes walk by ...ECT..

BUT I saw a young mother looking like other women with her D getting out of school and caring groseries the bag broke on the way to the car ,,,
I kept walking ,,, why ,,, I saw her invisioned other women and all I could think was I hope her apples roll to the street and the garbage truck doesn't see HER !

Nasty I know ,, not very GOD like at all .. BUT very real for me ,,, thats where I am at with XOW !

sorry so long !

3,

If you want to be obsessed with ow after a year this is YOUR choice.

I know you have not gotten the closure that you wanted in the way that you wanted.

Perhaps H is avoiding contact with ow because he wants to protect you, family and himself.

It has been harder for me, and for you, thansome of the others because of the continued contact, nothing like what your FWS put you thru, but hard nevertheless. It takes longer to recover.

The ow in my case trashed me hard. Whatever info she had came from my FWH, and one of his so called friends. So if ow said bad things about you, she did not get it from knowing you, only by heresay.

My FWH ow said we were dysfunctional, I was mentally ill, that I needed psychiatric care, that if FWH needed help in getting rid of me she would be glad to help him 'plan' it, and when she heard from one of his friends we were back together, (FWH never told her we were together again), she called me the psycho b!tch from h&ll. And onandonandon. I had never encountered anything that evil in my life. I did not know her, we never met. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

You are lucky that your FWH at least kept ow from your friends, etc. My FWH ran around with ow in public, everyone knew and alot of people met her and talked with her.

It doesn't always go as planned. I spent a long time letting my hate for ow consume me, and now, even tho I am over that now, I ended up struggling with alcohol addiction to try and cope with it. It crept up on me.

ow went on to marry someone with money not even a year after FWH finally broke it off. 6 months after she finally quit harrassing me in really weird ways. I used to really resent that she went on to marry someone with money and be happy, virtually unscathed, while we were devastated finacially, and STILL ARE. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> We have never recovered. Not to mention what we went thru with my teenage DD.

I asked God, why does she get away with it and is happy, while me, FWH, and family pay a huge price?

After almost 4 years I am better. You will be better 3. It will take time. ow is NOT WORTH THE EFFORT YOU ARE PUTTING INTO HER BY YOUR HATRED. It is only hurting YOU.

Now quit wallowing, go take a hot bubble bath, pamper yourself for a minute. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You DON'T want FWH to reestablish contact with the ow just to tell her he is with you. It could open up a whole can of worms that you don't want to see. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Don't stir it up.

Step back, look at what you do have to be thankful for and thank God for it. You gotta figure out what is healthiest for you.

If you want that calm, healthy home, ask yourself what you can do to get to that place. Your H has made a lot of progress. Keep up the good work.

Those triggers are tough, aren't they?

Anyway, gotta get ready for work. You know I will keep you in my prayers today. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Oh, and {{{{{HUGS 3}}}}} <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Love in Christ,
Miss M

<small>[ November 03, 2004, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: Miss M ]</small>

bump up for you 3,

Will check tomorrow. Praying for you girl. Anyone else in recovery that wants to say something?

Ark? Orchid? Luvbird? Too Old for This? 3 is in a crisis, please help. Thanx <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Love in Christ,
Miss M

Hey 3,

Will try my best to get my thoughts to come across right--

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If you want to be obsessed with ow after a year this is YOUR choice. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Have to say I totally agree with that. The hate that you are carying around with you is not good for you. I know you see that.

That being said, your H hasn't done a whole lot to help you out with that. There was never any kind of declaration of NC, right? IMO, there lies the problem. And I can so identify with that, because that was the case with my H too. No letter, no call, no nothing (can we say conflict avoider?). I think it makes it a thousand times harder for us to move on when WH has not made it clear to OW that he is moving on.

Now you have to ask yourself a question. Do you trust that your H has left that part of his life behind and is devoted to you now? If you can answer yes to that question, then I think you should start working on letting go of the hate. If your H has let go of her, so can you.

Well I just lost all train of thought. The kid that usually has to be dragged out of bed at 7 has decided that 5am is a good time to wake up today! I'll get back in here a little later this morning.

LOST THE DAM POST <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Do I feel that the part of his life is left behind ??? YES . Devoted to me , that depends on how ya look at it , YES .

BUT apart of him devoted to OW being HAPPY and never hurt again YES to that ,,, so is that devotd to me ???

MISS M ,, in e-mail you said something that was powerful to me ,,, DON'T return EVIL for EVIL it comes BACK ON YOU !

could be very true , well I am sure it is ..

I know I have to face this but its scary ,, face the ANGER , Rage , hatred that I feel to OW .

This very well be the part of my recovery both personal and M .. that I am lacking ..

BUT it scares me casue closure to OW" knowing "
may very well be the thing I will NEVER EVER GET !
and I am stomping my feet and wasting my breath and I don't want to except it cause I may be very well faced with the end of my M ...

This may be the 1 thing that I need , and the one thing that will stop me from GETTING OVER IT ,, and if I am not going to get it well ,, DO I WANT TO BE M and CAN I ???

I know know one can answer this but be ME .

MY weakness not to recover faster and the promise I made myself and him that I could get past this issue of her not knowing JUST AS LONG AS THER WAS NO CONTACT ,,,may be my very destruction ...

Things seem to be happening that is bringing this SUBJECT OUR way ,,,DAUGHTER was invited to a kiddy party guess where??? YES in the area of OW ..MIND you not many things if any (except job) brings us any where near that area ,,We can't go casue its my nieces B-DAY ,,BUT .....

JUst like the phone thing the what if was there ,,
Agian it was a question ? I told him of the party
(not that we couldn't go ) HE right away said, well you take her I can't go there.
I asked why ? is it because of yourself or OW ?

"It is becasue sometimes skeletons should be left in the closet and I made a mistake and want the door never to open again "

To me there is no mention for the safty of the M or ME !

I can not be second to HIM or her ...

To him not hurting himself that his lies may reflect to her and others what he did ..
OR to the fear of hurting her !

I have much to think about much to work on,,, I am upset with myself for being weak and not being able to get through this ,, I am angry at myself for thinking I was strong enough to do this .

I am even angry for loving him right now .

I never wanted to revisit this dark and lonely place I feel in right now !

I am depressed , sad, angry , tired, and helpless's is over whelming .

I thank you all from the bottom of my heart for sharing and listening to me ... For I know I sound pitiful and pathetic ..
LIKE a whimming brat .

NO MissM ,no PMS ,, thats later this week can you imagine, OH LORD !

I feel like I know if I allow this OW is winning even more , robbing me , all becasue I am allowing this to get to me ..

SICK how I can write it know it and still having a hard time over coming it !

I am sitting here not functioning day afer day again ,,, letting things fall to the waste side ...
I get up and function when my kids come home and put on the I GOT IT ALL TOGETHER LOOK for them and H alike ...

When right now I can cry for hours at a clip !

Through it all I will keep the sarcastic humor that has helped me ,I THINK ? and move forward to try and get my life on track .

I just want to roll down the mountain I am sick of trying to climb it ,,, its to darn HIGH ! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Hey 3 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Haven't seen you in ages. I myself have been away on another virtual vacation so I've lost track of MB except for an occasional read.

You say you need OW to know H is home, and that will help give you closure. I don't think its worth contact to hear him say those words to her. And don't you think she's probably already guessed that? I think it's more important that he reassures you that he's where he wants to be.

We can't make'em say the exact words we long to hear. His answer about not answering the phone sounded OK to me. And his answer about taking D to party and leaving skeletons in the closet sounded OK too. If you break it all down, it was kinda reassuring:

I'm not answering an unknown number, in case OW has my number and tries to cause trouble between us. I don't want to hurt you.

You take D to party. I don't want to be anywhere near there and give you reason to doubt me. What I did in the past is no longer a part of me and I don't want to face the fact that it ever was.

Well, that's my interpretation.

3, we have been betrayed in the worst possible way by the ones we thought we could depend on forever. The trust does not come back easily.

{{{{{{Hugs to ya 3}}}}}} and Hey to Miss M <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'll be checking on you.

TO4T,,, I have missed you alot and been thinking of you often ,,, I was wanting to give a yell out on the board to you ,,, but the self pitying side of me was well, distracted with well MY SELF LOL

Seriously ,, thank you so much for not lurking when a freind is in need ...

I warn ya though I am a needed SON OF A B!TCH !LOL

DO you see how you broke that down ?? well I been doing that for years ,,, TAKING his words and always KNOWING what he is really saying ...

I told him when he came home I need more HE needs to say it the way HE means it ... NOT for me to disect it !

Another words "I love you and thats what should matter , OW was a mistake and I never want her to be any kind of issue that would cause you pain "

IF thats what he MEANS he should say it !

BUT the problem is what he said,, says this to me !

" I don't want any more of my lies that I told OW that you may not know to come out and if the crap hit the fan you may know things I figured I could hid from you forever and PROTECT you from more lies "

NOT that they see or talk to one another any more but HOW HE ENDED IT !

He could have told her almost any thing when they where alone (and you know the day to day details they where alone alot )

IS there issue that I still do not have full TRUETH YEP!

I know my H ,,, IF I got know way of knowing he ain't saying !

Am I saying I don't think he is honest now ,,,? NO

I am saying that keeping the skeletons in the closet IS just that all the ones I don't know either!

I got to go ,, but promise me you won't fall off the earth ok ?

And I need to do one of those vacations !

UPDATE ? how is life treating you ? H good ? family ? the DOCK LOL?

3

Hi 3. I didn't mean to be so long posting back to you. Things are so busy now it's hard to get computer time.

I can understand how the things you don't know, that your H doesn't want to share with you makes you feel. I have those feelings too--it's like they still have something together(even though it's lies)and you're excluded. I'm still having trouble trusting and believing. But I'm trying to work through triggers and control my thoughts.

As far as an update--We're still stuck in the old pre-A existance. He does his thing and I do mine. No time together. I vacationed in the mountains with my granddaughter. He won't go anywhere. I hardly go to the marina at all these days. The dock OW's boat was at was destroyed in the storms. Too bad she moved inside before the storms.

See why I needed a break? This post reminds me of 2Longs thread "If you can't say anything at all, don't say anything nice".

I hope things are going better for you than last time. {{{{{Hugs to you!}}}}}