I am a father of two daughters. Ages 16 and 11. Three weeks ago, I confessed to my wife of 13 years that I had a one night stand 1 1/2 year ago during a business trip and that I have also been addicted to pornography and have keep this from my wife for many years. I travel a lot with my job and I have been living a double life for the past 1 1/2 year. After the one night stand I started acting single by visiting bars or restuarant bars. I would flurt with other women, buy them drinks and was hoping that the one night stand would happen again. Yes, I am a pig. I am not proud of this. My wife and I are now trying to recovery and rebuild our marriage. We are seeking professional and spiritual counseling. I have become involved with my church and a men's bible study group. I also have an accountability partner from church for the porn addiction. All of this seems to be doing a lot of good and I feel that we will survive.

The topic of telling our children came up yesterday between my wife and I. I think we are in a disagreement about how I should tell them. I have not had a chance to speak with our counselors, so I wanted to get input from all of you on this forum.

My wife thinks that I should tell them everything. Even all the details if they ask for them. Should I do this? I do not mind telling anyone about my mistakes of adultery or sin. I just feel that my 11 year old may not be able to understand and process the information correctly, if I tell her everything. If I tell them this, should I also tell them the entire truth about both of our past. My wife committed adultery when she met me. She was previously married for a little over a year and when I met her she had just gotten separated. We had sex within two months after her separation. This has never been told to our childeren. I know what I did was terribly wrong and I have ask God for forgiveness and will repent from this sin. I guess my point is that if I speak to my children about this, I want them to realize that we all sin. I have sinned and their mother has sinned. We all fall short to the Glory of God. Should I tell all? Should I tell them just a little? Or should I just tell them what I did and leave out the past? Please help.

No. There is absolutely no reason to tell them this. It accomplishes nothing except confuses them about their father. I could see the point of telling them SOME of this if the affair were ongoing and/or caused a separation, but that is not the case here.

While I don't advocate lying to kids, there is also no reason to frivolously demean your respect and authority in front of them. There simply is no reason for them to know at this point.

LookingUp, I'm with Melody on this one. There is no good reason to tell the kids. If your W pushes the issue I think you should tell her that maybe we should at least discuss the ramifications with our counselor first. I can't imagine that the counselor would endorse this. Way too painful for a child this young to have to deal with this needlessly.

In defense of your W she is not in the best shape to make this decision right now. Good luck and think twice about this one.

Another vote for not telling them. I absolutely do not believe in making children deal with adult issues unless it is an absolute necessity. In your case it sounds like not.

My H was also a ONS and the oldest child was 4 at the time..there is no reason that they need to know this, how is someone who has no real conception of what sex even IS supposed to process the ramifications of these actions?

First rule? Do no harm. Then deal with the rest of the injuries.

Noodle

[I before e except after c <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ]

<small>[ November 17, 2004, 08:34 PM: Message edited by: noodle ]</small>

Thanks for your insight. I know I should get my own username and pw and I will....this is now the betrayed wife of "Looking Up" writing. In my own defense - my husband has left out a number of the details that pain me greatly right now. For example - one of the women he was actively pursuing is our 11 year-old's teacher! Don't think for a minute that I'm suggesting we tell her this part - I'm not.

I'm not sure why he's so focused on dredging up my past sins of adultery and pre-marital sex, since they are not relevant to the adultery issue that I am dealing with now. However, I believe that we owe our children honesty and openness. I think my husband has a problem living up to the role model that he portrays himself to be....and as part of our healing - I believe that he owes it to me and our family to apologize for this in front of both daughters with my present. In the absence of this, I fear the girls will jump to conclusions and be more afraid than necessary about losing everything they've ever known. I am a child from a broken home. If I weren't - I probably wouldn't be so committed to working through this difficult time. Forgiveness is divine - but it's also very difficult. I have never been a very good actress, or good at pretending everything is ok right now.....IT IS NOT!!! I am doing my best to be responsible about the situation, trying to keep my emotions under control. I definitely plan to explain to both of our daughters about my own responsibility in the failure of our marriage - such as not proactively meeting my husbands sexual needs or being more in tune with him emotionally. At the same time, how do I know that the whole town, or even their fellow teachers or classmates already know what a womanizer he is and what a louse I am for tolerating his philandering?

My huband is mostly concerned with saving his own reputation and I think he needs to worry about the effect his affair is having on our children and their feelings toward him. He travels 80% of the time and they wonder why I'm crying every night. They see the books on my nightstand "After the Affair", "Surviving Infidelity", "Every Heart Restored", etc.

I think that we need to sit down with the kids and explain, at a very high level - not the minute details - that we are working very hard to save our marriage - a marriage that is badly bruised my infidelity. I want to invite them to be comfortable talking with us or asking questions - as often as they need to and in much the same manner that I find myself asking my husband these same questions. There are many levels of this such as the financial aspects that I am only now uncovering. How can I contain my anger at his unscrupulous use of our family's money to pursue what his [censored] desired at any given moment? All the while, I'm back home cooking & chauffering kids to and from ballgames and sporting events. How do I explain to the kids that their Christmas isn't going to be quite as wonderfule because now we have to pay for psychotherapy and Daddy's secret credit cards?

Mrs. Looking Up - It sounds like you want to tell the children in order to punish your WH, not to help the children. I see nothing wrong with telling them that you and your H are having problems but are working towards solving them and remaining a family.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am doing my best to be responsible about the situation, trying to keep my emotions under control. I definitely plan to explain to both of our daughters about my own responsibility in the failure of our marriage - such as not proactively meeting my husbands sexual needs </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your children do not need or want this level of detail. Why bring up the subject of sex and adultry with them? What are you hoping to accomplish? It seems to me like you will do more harm then good. I would seriously suggest talking to an adolescent counselor about this before you do anything.

Ah..the omissions..let the games begin <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

First of all..welcome Wife of Looking Up [sounds oddly archaic, no?]

Well..to an extent..I agree with you..but let's stick with the premise that first..we do not harm the children or damage their respect for their father if it can possibly be avoided. There is one reason to do such damage..one..and that is to protect them from further harm in a situation where Dad is an unrepentant loose cannon and they are being actively shelled and do not understand why.

In your situation..he is stepping [albeit gingerly] up to the plate. I just don't see the point in forcing your young impressionable children to SEE the VERY WORST in their parent.

I DO agree that an apology in which you both sit down with the children and explain that Dad has not been doing as well as he might, that he is sorry, and that you are working on it is a GREAT idea that would set their minds to rest because the situation and tension have been addressed..but truly, I see no need to go into the specifics..because the specifics frankly are an offense against YOU, not them. Let him apologise to YOU for harm done to YOU and to THEM for harm done to THEM.

However, if they figure it out [as an 11 year old might] I would tell the truth, and seek some counsel for her..it is a lot to absorb.

Please continue to post and good luck on your recovery.

Noodle

I appreciate the suggestion. I am seeing a counselor, but not one that specializes in adolescents. My kids have witnessed a great deal more that what these posts reveal - and my husband has already told them that he's been addicted to porn - after I printed out a number of the sites and spread the prints across the kitchen counter so I would have proof on the day I confronted him - which didn't happen in front of the girls, but they came home in the middle of it. I also accused him in front of them of being particularly fond of porn showing teen-aged girls. He denies this, but I have seen this common thread in the porn he frequents over the years. You are probably right - I do want to punish him. But not at the expense of our children. I am also concerned that my husband's own mother committed adultery when he was a teenager and now he's done the same. How do we stop this pattern? How do my daughters learn to trust in their own relationships? Our 16 year-old has already been cheated on by her boyfriend and has forgiven him for 2 indiscretions. At what point is a person just serving as a door mat? My self esteem and the self esteem of my daughers is very important. Maybe I just need to get out -- Wife of Looking Up

<small>[ November 17, 2004, 09:07 PM: Message edited by: Looking Up ]</small>

Wife of Looking Up [WoLU from here on out..I'm lazy. no way I'm typing that every time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ]

Sounds like you tend to fly off the handle a bit?

Having a MAJOR conflict that you PLANNED but did not make arrangements for your children to be elsewhere?

I don't think your children needed to be privy to THAT either..just my opinion though.

Sounds like BOUNDARY issues may be at work here for ALL parties involved. Perhaps everyone in the family has a difficult time discerning what is appropriate and what is not?

Your teenage daughter is, again..my opinion..inappropriately attached to another teen relationship. There should be no "cheating"..honestly they are a couple of kids dating..nothing more. I think the best thing you could do is to help her to learn to erect and enforce boundaries for herself..and regarding the level of attachment she has for others.

Perhaps this is something that family counseling ['cause now the cat is out of the bag] could help with.

Also..my H is giving up his profession in order to resolve the traveling issue..i think in your sitch something like this might be a good idea..something to consider anyway.

Noodle

Mrs. LookingUp, as noodle explained, I think it is completely inappropriate to drag your children into your marital problems. This is between you and him and it is serves no purpose to drag out your dirty laundry. It will hurt those kids, not help them.

There can simply be no good reason to humiliate your H in front in these kids or anyone else. They need to be able to count on their parents and it would be terrible to frivolously trash the reputation of a repentant man. He should be commended for stepping up to the plate and making amends. He shouldn't be punished for that.

So, please leave your kids out of it. It's bad enough that they were exposed to the porn, please quit before more damage is done.

I would also add that your H needs your support and forgiveness right now. I realize that is easier said than done when you are filled with rage, but acting on that rage will do nothing but cause further harm.

Mrs WofLU,

I agree with the rest "protect" the children. I like some of Noodle's suggestions, in fact all of them. I am responding with perhaps a different point of view. Permit to quote some of the things you said and offer a few comments and ask a few questions. You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not sure why he's so focused on dredging up my past sins of adultery and pre-marital sex, since they are not relevant to the adultery issue that I am dealing with now.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">They are not relavent to the issues YOU are dealing with. So let me ask you is his adultery relavent to the issues your children are dealing with? I don't think so. Further, if you really feel that they should know the truth about their father and learn from it, shouldn't they know the truth about you and have the opportunity to learn from it??

Do you see the slippery slope you are on when you are asking/demanding/suggesting that your H tell the kids about HIS affair??? Where do YOU and your H draw the line, just where he looks bad and you look good? Or perhaps where you both look bad? Or... you name it. See the point?


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> However, I believe that we owe our children honesty and openness. I think my husband has a problem living up to the role model that he portrays himself to be....and as part of our healing - I believe that he owes it to me and our family to apologize for this in front of both daughters with my present.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually, you owe your children protection and as stable a home as you can provide. You owe them love, but they are NOT part of your marriage. They are part of your family. So are you saying that all the rest of his and your relatives should know as well? What purpose would this serve? I am suspecting what it would serve is PUNISHMENT by you for your H. You may feeling PUNISHING your H will serve YOUR healing, but it is not likely to help his healing.

You will find it interesting that this site has as a basic tenant the concept of "radical honesty". However, the founder of this site and this concept states that it should be applied between the married couple and it is not owed to the children where it might hurt the family and them.

You will also find it interesting that it is often true that the Wayward spouse, WS, often does not apologize to the Betrayed Spouse, although I agree with you he surely owes you one actually he should apologize not only in words but action to you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> In the absence of this, I fear the girls will jump to conclusions and be more afraid than necessary about losing everything they've ever known.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please explain why they would jump to conclusions? Are you confiding in them that you want to leave their father? Is he saying he wants to leave you?

I think Noodle's suggestion of telling them that you two are having problems but are working on it is just fine at this point. Finally why would they lose everything they have ever known? I agree divorce is very very hard on children and therefore should be avoided if possible, but even if that were to happen you and your H would still be around, and given that you have a 16 year old her friends may old more influence on her than you or your H. She will out grow that if she is at that stage. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am a child from a broken home. If I weren't - I probably wouldn't be so committed to working through this difficult time. Forgiveness is divine - but it's also very difficult. I have never been a very good actress, or good at pretending everything is ok right now.....IT IS NOT!!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Whether your H confesses all to your children or not, things will NOT be OK for quite awhile yet. Have you read the articles here, I think they may help you rebuild your marriage, they will also help your H. You will find that you will forgive when you are ready and you will find that the forgiveness is for YOU much more than for your H. It is a gift you give yourself, when you can lay down the anger and admit you will NOT seek retribution for something he has done, you will feel released. Your H's remorse on the other hand may actually be increased once you come to the point of forgiving him as he will for the rest of his life know that he failed you.

There is a quote that is mentioned often here (by me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ). It is </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It was brought to this site many years ago by a WS named WhoDat. It is worth pondering because it dovetails nicely with the concept that forgiveness is a gift you give yourself.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am doing my best to be responsible about the situation, trying to keep my emotions under control. I definitely plan to explain to both of our daughters about my own responsibility in the failure of our marriage - such as not proactively meeting my husbands sexual needs or being more in tune with him emotionally.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mrs. LU before you leap of the cliff of explaining why "your marriage failed" please realize that your marriage has NOT failed. It is still alive and it can be rebuilt into something you BOTH will enjoy and nuture. Your H made a serious mistake, he failed to keep his vows of fidelity. Your comments that you have failed as well to keep your vows to him in other ways. I am not equating them but all sin is just that sin, so don't assume your marriage has failed. I would not even broach the subject to your children as it will definitely cause them to fear the future, when in fact the future is brighter than you can realize at this point.

You two have an OPPORTUNITY to open up to each other like neither of you have done. You have an OPPORTUNITY to learn about each other, learn how to protect one another, how to care for one another, and to reassess what is valuable in your life. I would hope that you take this OPPORTUNITY to rebuild your marriage. It takes time and it takes honesty between you two, but I hope that you will consider this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> At the same time, how do I know that the whole town, or even their fellow teachers or classmates already know what a womanizer he is and what a louse I am for tolerating his philandering?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ah! you worry that you will look bad or weak or dependent am I right? But, IF they know all of this and I wonder if they do, then isn't it possible that you will look and be the strong one if you rebuild this marriage? Isn't also possible that having your H commit to rebuilding the marriage and actually doing it will show them that BOTH of you are strong committed people with your priorities sorted out?

He is not the first or last to commit adultery and that is not an excuse but a statement that what other people think is far less important that what YOU think, what your H thinks and finally what you both do about what you feel is important, and that would be...to protect, strengthen, and nuture your family. Think about that for a moment.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My huband is mostly concerned with saving his own reputation and I think he needs to worry about the effect his affair is having on our children and their feelings toward him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please explain how the affair is affecting them now? And how is it affecting their feelings? Are you talking to them about it? Are you arguing in front of them? I believe you might be helped by reading an article here on Love Busters, particularly the one called Disrespectful Judgements, DJ's. They are assumptions that one spouse makes concerning the other that are NOT based on data. You assume you know his motives and that they are to simply protect himself. Perhaps he really does want protect his children, and the marriage as much as he can. You don't know do you? You just assume you know.

The real proof of the pudding is not his words but his actions. Watch his actions Mrs. LU, they will tell the tale.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He travels 80% of the time and they wonder why I'm crying every night. They see the books on my nightstand "After the Affair", "Surviving Infidelity", "Every Heart Restored", etc.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In short you are doing nothing to protect them are you?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think that we need to sit down with the kids and explain, at a very high level - not the minute details - that we are working very hard to save our marriage - a marriage that is badly bruised my infidelity. I want to invite them to be comfortable talking with us or asking questions - as often as they need to and in much the same manner that I find myself asking my husband these same questions.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So are you looking for support? Are you looking for your children to take YOUR side on this? Are you looking for your children to be your counselor or perhaps yours and your H's counselor? That is NOT a good idea. They are not your friends, they are not your counselor, they ARE you children.

All they need to know is that you and their Dad are having some difficulties and that you two are working on solving them.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> There are many levels of this such as the financial aspects that I am only now uncovering. How can I contain my anger at his unscrupulous use of our family's money to pursue what his [censored] desired at any given moment? All the while, I'm back home cooking & chauffering kids to and from ballgames and sporting events.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your anger is justified but I don't think your children need to know about your H's "[censored]". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> You can also cast yourself as a martyr if you wish but it will NOT help you save the marriage.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> How do I explain to the kids that their Christmas isn't going to be quite as wonderfule because now we have to pay for psychotherapy and Daddy's secret credit cards? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You don't any more than you explain to the children that YOU DON'T earn the money, your H does. Don't explain to them many financial things and clearly they do not have a part in the financial decisions of your household. So why bring this up? The fact that the Christmas is "wonderful" or not "as wonderful" as it could be is NOT a useful thing to explain to them, unless they are used to getting everything their hearts desire. You are using this to punish your H and you will end up hurting innocent people including yourself.

Mrs.LU, you are very hurt. Everyone here knows that. You will need time to heal from this betrayal everyone knows that, but bringing your children into it will not hasten your recovery, nor will it "teach" your H anything. It will simply punish your children by making them adults before their time. You came from a broken home and I think you know exactly what I am talking about.

So please do some reading here, I note that you have some very good books to read. Please give this time and have patience with yourself and your H. There is one last thing I want to leave you with and it is a quote I beleive originated with Winston Churchill but I may be wrong. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The best revenge is a life well lived. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you can manage to handle this with grace, protect your children and to some extent your H. If you two make this marriage something wonderful and you have him eating out of your hand because you treat him so well and he treats you well, then you find that you have ONLY one major hurdle to jump to make the marriage great... HIS GUILT.

If he is any human at all, you will NOT have to punish him or guilt him into things, his own conscience will take care of that for you. Live a good life Mrs LU, make the marriage a great one, and you will get what you think you need so badly now.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There should be no "cheating"..honestly they are a couple of kids dating..nothing more.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course there can be cheating in relationships of teenagers - if the teens involved have agreed upon an exclusive relationship, and one party is not living up to that agreement, then cheating has occurred.

I think it is quite likely that at least the older child is already aware that her father committed adultery. And I would be VERY worried about the teen porn issue - I think it is very important that the father never be around her female friends without another adult present, and perhaps not even left alone with his own daughter. Addiction to porn involving teenage girls is NOT normal behavior - anyone with an ounce of common sense and normal impulse control would never download pictures of minors, not only because it is wrong, but if for no other reason than the fact that it is highly illegal, and the type of illegal activity that could easily destroy his career and his life.

I think it is necessary to get all the issues out in the open, including the adultery by the mother. It is far better now than later, when the kids run across paperwork showing the date of the divorce. I think all previous issues of adultery are very relevant, including the fact that his mother cheated.

These issues are not "adult" issues - these are family issues. Of course the kids are going to come up with conclusions about why their mother is crying all the time, and may worry even more than necessary about their family being destroyed.

If apologizing to the children and letting them know that he is repentant destroys their "respect" for their father, then something is seriously wrong with their relationship. Why would anyone want to be the recipient of undeserved respect, or respect based on a false idealization? Would not the father live in permanent fear that someone would eventually spill the beans?

I also am appalled by the fact that posters seem to view the 16 year old as a child. She is nearly an adult, obviously involved in a romantic and quite possibly sexual relationship, yet she is somehow incapable of understanding "adult" issues???

The only way to end the legacy of adultery is by openly discussing it. In addition, it seems to me that there is a strong possibility that LookingUp is dealing with at least depression, if not some more serious mental health issues. His kids have a right to know their family medical history, and to learn to be able to recognize symptoms in themselves since there is a strong hereditary component.

Just Learning - thank you for all you've said. Especially the quote from Winston Churchill. You see, my own mother left our family when I was 12 - to "be more than a mother". I was forced to give up my childhood at an early age and step in to assume the parent role of my 3 younger siblings. I do have many problems with boundaries - who to tell what and what to say in front of who, etc. But I have lived my life with the adage expressed in the quote about a life well lived. I don't want that experience (divorce and self centered parents) to define my own life.

I haven't done a very good job protecting my kids. They see me crying. How else can I get through this as I am a mere puddle of tears...despite the Xanax and Prozac my MD has given me and the prayers and books?

I did plan for our 11 year-old to be at my sister-in-laws on the day of confrontation - but when I pleaded with my husband to move out and he refused (my own family is 4 states away) I called his mother and father to come counsel with us in the midst of the crisis. So yes, they already know too.

I will keep posting and keep seeking God's will in my life. I am thankful that my husband is repentant and - you are so right - actions are going to speak louder than anything. Thanks for all of your support and suggestions about protecting the kids and about forgiveness. The hardest thing I've ever done so far is to forgive my mother for her abandoning us - but I believe in what you are saying about it beeing very freeing and healing and a gift to myself. I do need support right now and I guess it is wrong for me to look to the kids for that. I just feel so isolated and so hurt.

I'm bitter and angry and resentful and the list goes on. When is it going to get better? I'm worried it won't. I have a tendency towards Obsessive Compulsive Behaviour and right now I'm obsessed about uncovering the truths about the life I've really been living. While he led a double life - I thought we were fine. I've been involved in church and I've kept our marriage bed pure. I've honored him in every way I know - but he didn't even give me a chance because he has been mentally and physically checked out of the marriage. I"ll try to post some more tomrrow in response to some of the points you brought up, but for now, I'm going to try to rest. Thank you again - and God Bless You for your time spent trying to help me.

Just Learning - thank you for all you've said. Especially the quote from Winston Churchill. You see, my own mother left our family when I was 12 - to "be more than a mother". I was forced to give up my childhood at an early age and step in to assume the parent role of my 3 younger siblings. I do have many problems with boundaries - who to tell what and what to say in front of who, etc. But I have lived my life with the adage expressed in the quote about a life well lived. I don't want that experience (divorce and self centered parents) to define my own life.

I haven't done a very good job protecting my kids. They see me crying. How else can I get through this as I am a mere puddle of tears...despite the Xanax and Prozac my MD has given me and the prayers and books?

I did plan for our 11 year-old to be at my sister-in-laws on the day of confrontation - but when I pleaded with my husband to move out and he refused (my own family is 4 states away) I called his mother and father to come counsel with us in the midst of the crisis. So yes, they already know too.

I will keep posting and keep seeking God's will in my life. I am thankful that my husband is repentant and - you are so right - actions are going to speak louder than anything. Thanks for all of your support and suggestions about protecting the kids and about forgiveness. The hardest thing I've ever done so far is to forgive my mother for her abandoning us - but I believe in what you are saying about it beeing very freeing and healing and a gift to myself. I do need support right now and I guess it is wrong for me to look to the kids for that. I just feel so isolated and so hurt.

I'm bitter and angry and resentful and the list goes on. When is it going to get better? I'm worried it won't. I have a tendency towards Obsessive Compulsive Behaviour and right now I'm obsessed about uncovering the truths about the life I've really been living. While he led a double life - I thought we were fine. I've been involved in church and I've kept our marriage bed pure. I've honored him in every way I know - but he didn't even give me a chance because he has been mentally and physically checked out of the marriage. I"ll try to post some more tomrrow in response to some of the points you brought up, but for now, I'm going to try to rest. Thank you again - and God Bless You for your time spent trying to help me.

I was thirteen when my mother took my brother, sister and I out to the Ground Round (for those who do not know that is a or was a resturant). During dinner she told us that she loved another man as much as she loved our dad. That simple statement was hard enough to comprehend and deal with. I do not know what I would have done with actual DETAILS!! I was crushed for weeks at the fact my mother was in love with someone else, and that she no longer lived at home. Granted it is not the exact same situation, how ever I was about the same age as your daugher. I am now 26- and still have flash backs as if it were yesterday the pain that came with that one little statement- as well as all the details that followed. I too agree hole heartedly- DO NOT TELL THE KIDS!!!! If you have to say anything at all, just explain that Mom and Dad are working on eachother right now, we love you very much, and everything is going to be okay. Again that is only if you feel you really must tell them something. Kicking Mr. Looking Up off his soupbox with your children will only do more damage in the long run anyway- why add more to your plate?

When my H cheated, he did it for 10 months, our then 6 year old (he had JUST turned 6) figured it out much to my dismay. Well H and I have been back together for 10 months, and our now almost 8 year old and H's relationship is so strained that it is hard to watch. I can not nurture it back to life, that is something that H has to do- and hopefully he will. Why cause that kind of pain and insecurity to a child?

I just noticed that the older daughter is 3 years older than the marriage. Is LookingUp her biological father? If not, I think it is even more critically important to address the teen porn issue, and to make sure that he is never alone with her. The risk of sexual abuse by stepfathers is disturbingly high, and lack of impulse control and interest in porn involving teenagers are both huge red flags.

After reading these posts carefully, I came away with the feeling that there is a lot more going on that meets the eye.

LUW,

Here is a very good place to talk to people that will do their best to help you, rather than your children. We all understand that you are all of those things, but to help your anger consider this. Anger is a "secondary" emotion that is driven by the basic emotions, fear and pain being two of them. Identify what is driving your anger and it will help you to address this and ease your pain.

You are like most of the BS's that post here. Their spouse was leading a double life, and it is very very unsettling to say the least. IF you are a bit toward OCB, then I am guessing you like order in your life and surely this has thrown a wrench into that hasn't it. See if you can step back a bit. It will help you see things clearer and it will allow your H time to learn how to help you.

As you read the books you have, and this site you will learn a few things. One of them is that the A was all his choice. The state of the marriage tends to be a shared thing. It is worth considering this so that you can discern when you are dealing with A issues and when you are dealing with marriage issues that existed before. They both must be addressed but as you can see they each require a slightly different perspective.

I would also direct your attention to your H's initial post here. Read it again. He is admitting here what he has done. He also mentions some of the ACTIONS he is taking to address what he is done. You have more to work with here than you realize. Many a Betrayed spouse, bS, comes here with a spouse that simply won't admit what they did was bad and they just want out of the marriage. Yours seems to see the pain he has caused and the errors of his ways and is trying to address them. I can tell you Mrs LU, that is a very very good start.

You will NOT heal from this overnight. It will take up to 6 months before you start to feel better, and it is stated by Harley that about two years is the point where the marriage is recovered. Now all of that time you won't feel like you do now, but there will be ups and downs and you will here the term rollercoaster used here alot. I think you already know about that right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

So hang in there, have patience with yourself and your H. This stuff takes time and patience, use them both liberally.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks to you all - one more thought before I'm off to bed. How do you address the teen porn issue ? He swears this isn't a component of what he likes or fantasizes about - but what frequently "pops" up when accessing porn sites. Just from all the spam subject lines that I get daily at work (and, yes, I DO WORK - and contribute financially) - many of them mention teen porn. I don't know how to put my mind at rest about this. I wish he could take a polygraph and a pill to reduce his sexual deviant mind. Good night.

Nellie1

I'm just going to have to disagree with you..and I realize that this is only my opinion..and that you are entitled to yours as well..so we may have to agree to disagree and not excessively threadjack..but as we are still on topic..I'm gonna explore this a bit.

First of all..Yes..in an exclusive situation..of course there can be cheating..my point though is that the entire dynamic of the relationship is off kilter and were it set to rights this would not be an issue. I do not believe even in theory that a 16 year old is almost an adult. There is a very clear line between adulthood and childhood and managing to get laid does not put you over it.

If you live at home with Mommy and Daddy, and your needs are met by Mommy and Daddy..you are a child..even if you are 32..what makes a person an adult is the level of self sufficiency and responsibility that they embrace.

I think that DD16 is in an innapropriate and destructive relationship BECAUSE she does not understand or enforce appropriate boundaries. She should be at the "lets go have fun and see a movie" level of dating..not the "lets file jointly on our taxes and take each other into consideration when making life altering choices level". She does not have the necessary perspective and maturity to make these decisions this opinion is backed by her supremely poor choices to date. I sincerely hope that she is not sexually involved with this boy..she is FAR too young to be a BS <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I agree with you that they are BOTH probably already aware. I somehow missed that there was an older daughter..I was thinking 11 yr old was the oldest..but nonetheless the adultery is an issue between Mom and Dad..Dad should apologise to the children for the areas of failure specifically with them.

I do think that losing their respect for their father will damage the children..this is one instance where "getting what he deserves" has to take a second class admission to the priority list. Children who have lost respect for their parents..whose parents have lost all credibility..are children who find themselves in bad places because they resist the authority of the very person who would rightly protect them from making poor choices. Children also find amazing ways to internalize blame. I would not, for any amount of money, want my children to think that they had a hand in my grief..and we all know that TELLING them that they don't will not change their belief that they ARE responsible. They really are that ego centric. Since they are the center of the world..if something is wrong it MUST be their fault somehow.

I AGREE with you that BOTH parents and at least ONE daughter all seem to have some emotional and psychological issues that must be dealt with to break the cycle..but I disagree that open discussion about the adulterous behavior of both parents will serve to break the cycle.

I think that changing the dynamic of the family will break it..changing the problem solving techniques and wrong thought patterns and various other individual areas of growth.

Let's not forget that THIS marriage began as an affair. So, it wasn't right from the start..they will have to put in extra miles to correct the patterns that lead to the mariage in the first place..and are now leading to its destruction.

As for the porn issue..

Addiction to teen porn is NOT normal..I agree..but it IS very common and a blight on our society. Let's face it, we worship youth to such an extreme that MANY mens magazines run literal countdowns for teen sex symbols to reach the magical minute of 18..so that they can bring their lust out in the open. Magazines that you buy at the gas station. This is unhealthy [all porn is imo] but it is also very much THE norm if not actually normal [is that distinction making sense?]

Unless he has manifested inappropriate actions or thoughts about the teen girls surrounding his daughter, or has a history of molestation I see no reason to hit the alarm button particularly.

We now return to your regularly schedualed program <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Noodle

A question for JL:

This is a bit of an aside, but what does </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">clearly they do not have a part in the financial decisions of your household.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">mean? Of course children, especially teenagers, are involved in financial decisions of the household, at least in every household I am familiar with. It may not be a democracy, but if there is a financial crisis, the children need to be a part of discussions re what things are given up. Even when there is no crisis, they should be involved in decisions about how to spend any discretionary income - would the family prefer a vacation at Disney World or a longer vacation at the ocean, for instance. Or should they skip the vacation and save for a pool? How else will they ever learn financial management if they are kept out of the loop? I was doing my parents' taxes by the time I was 14. I sure wouldn't want my kids growing up thinking that all they need to do if they need more money is to go to the ATM, like they did when they were four or five. There are far too many kids who leave home having no idea how to balance a checkbook,much less make financial decisions.