I've been lurking here for a little while now, and I have concerns about this "exposure" part of the plan. How on earth can public humilation bring partners closer? It's bad enough to have the guilt of an affair to deal with on your own. How can having everyone looking down their noses at you possibly be a good thing? In my humble opinion, if my spouse were to "out" me to all my friends and family, that would be the last straw. I would never be able to forgive that. What ever happened to privacy and the need to know basis?

YCUBT,

Well, there are a few things that need to be understood. Exposing the Wayward spouse, WS, during Plan A is strongly recommended by Dr. Harley because the A is still continuing and pressure from family, friends and others frequently helps shine the light of day on the Affair. There IS NO CHANCE that the marriage can be recovered if the affair or contact continues, so the idea is to enlist help with the caveat that the goal is to rebuild the marriage.

It is not punishment, but I have heard of no WS that liked the idea at all. However, I have seen on this site many times when it was exposure that finally started the end to the affair and the beginning of saving the marriage.

If the Affair is over, then there is no purpose to exposure unless the betrayed spouse needs support that is not forthcoming from their spouse.

In any case the concept of exposure is NOT to punish the WS but to gather support toward ending the affair. It works.

Can we help you with anything else?

God Bless,

JL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What ever happened to privacy and the need to know basis? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">HUH? What happened to ethics and marital vows is a better question!

Exposure is perhaps the most powerful tool in the mb arsenal for ENDING entrenched/addictive affairs. Affairs need secrecy (and that is NOT the same thing as privacy). Private and secret are two very different animals. Aside from that....exposure is best done in steps. The first exposure is to the WS and the OTHER BS (if there is one). Afterall, the WS, both BSs and the OP are the ones MOST affected by the A. "I know you're having an A, please don't deny it." The WS has the opportunity to END the affair RIGHT THEN AND THERE...and exposure ENDS. Often that doesn't happen. And the BS is put in the AWFUL position of having to keep their nasty little secret...thus ENABLING the affair. Nope...bad plan. If the WS refuses to end the affair after d-day....then there are concentric rings of exposure that become wider and wider until everyone knows.

Most WSs threaten to walk away and consider it some horrible thing to expose the affair....but they conveniently forget that HAVING the affair is what put the wheels in motion. Sorry Ycant....exposure works....and most WS's anger is short lived and it takes them no time at all to understand the logic behind exposure. They don't like it...but they "get it".

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by YCantUBTru:
<strong>How on earth can public humilation bring partners closer?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It can't - unless it ends an affair.

You would agree that an affair prevents partners from coming closer, right? So if exposing an affair ends it, at least THEN the partners have a chance, huh?

You used the word "humiliation."

Why?

Apparently you would feel humiliated if others found out.

Why?

Exposer is exactly what the WS is telling the BS in a sense so why not share it with the world ...

WHEN my H walked out I told people word for word what he said,,,, I let them decide he was NUTS !

HE then got court in the act of the A ,, said he wanted and D ,,,

OK so I told everyone that ,,, I called OW and congragulated her on her new life , and asked why didn't she meet the family ???

They know all about I told them!!!!

See if its the SECRET A the WS wanted well they shouldn't get court ,, they shouldn't act like a total ALIAIN form another planet ...

And if they are going to spew things like I DON"T LOVE YA, ect... why can't the BS tell everyone..

I mean people ask questions ,especaily when they leave the house ,, and if theres kids involved

So exposing is just letting the world know what the WS should not be ashamed of to being with ,,,,

IF they are with there SOLO MATE blah blah blah

SHOULDN"T everyone KNOW !

Exposer is exactly what the WS is telling the BS in a sense so why not share it with the world ...

WHEN my H walked out I told people word for word what he said,,,, I let them decide he was NUTS !

HE then got court in the act of the A ,, said he wanted and D ,,,

OK so I told everyone that ,,, I called OW and congragulated her on her new life , and asked why didn't she meet the family ???

They know all about I told them!!!!

See if its the SECRET A the WS wanted well they shouldn't get court ,, they shouldn't act like a total ALIAIN form another planet ...

And if they are going to spew things like I DON"T LOVE YA, ect... why can't the BS tell everyone..

I mean people ask questions ,especaily when they leave the house ,, and if theres kids involved

So exposing is just letting the world know what the WS should not be ashamed of to being with ,,,,

IF they are with there SOLO MATE blah blah blah

SHOULDN"T everyone KNOW !

Sounds like my WW.

Bottom line is if you are doing something you don't want others to know about, should you really be doing it?

Best wishes to you.

If you are asking because you are concerned about your Wayward Spouse, I think it's a valid question.

You don't put up a billboard and tell the folks in the check out line at the store about it, but you do tell people in a respectful fashion that your desire is to save the marriage, and that your spouse is having a extra-marital relationship that hinders that goal.

For example:

I love my spouse very much, she is free to make her choices, but the choices she is making right now are very hurtful to me and damaging to our marriage. Your prayers and support are greatly appreciated.

Since you know and I believe you care about both of us, I felt you needed to know this. If you don't want to talk about this, then I will understand. Any help and support are greatly appreciated.

TB

Sorry folks, but I do not see this issue in black and white terms.

As a WW I exposed myself to my supervisor (my A was with a co-worker) and, surprisingly I did not receive the negative response that I expected. Nor did my BS expect such a sympathetic response to my situation. If anything, my employer's response validated my actions and fueled the fog. The point is that when a BS exposes the A to family, friends, and employers, the reaction may be adverse from what they expected.

Also, if my BH had exposed my A to my father (an emotionally and physically abusive alcoholic), it would only have sent me further into depths of depression. Trust me, I was beating myself up daily already and my father's judgement would have sent me over the edge. My second point is that by exposing your WS to the people who aided in creating his or her emotional issues in the first place, you may only continue to widen the emotional distance between you and your spouse.

tobs,

This is NOT an exact science and there are certainly situations where exposure will hurt more than help...but we choose to err on the side of the BEST odds for ending affairs....and your personal situation not withstanding...that's still exposure. Willard Harley has developed these strategies over 30 years of MCing....and these concepts reflect the best odds for ending affairs...exposure is part of that. Not to mention that as the WS your opinion is biased SO BADLY in your favor, and holds less value because exposure is where you stand to lose the MOST. As a person, you hold great value...but your opinion, as a WS, weighed against 30 years of marriage therapy by Harley....and countless examples of how exposure works to end affairz...(forgive me) counts so little I that I don't trust your opinion as far as I can spit.

Originally posted by tobs:
The point is that when a BS exposes the A to family, friends, and employers, the reaction may be adverse from what they expected.

What is expected is that the secrecy that affairs flourish beneath is lifted and the light of truth be allowed to shine on the true nature of the affair infidelity fantasy relationship.

Whether or not it helps the marriage ... remains to be seen.

What is 100% known is that a secret affair kills marital intimacy , and is an unethical response to a problem. Truth is an ethical response more often than not.

Also, if my BH had exposed my A to my father (an emotionally and physically abusive alcoholic), it would only have sent me further into depths of depression.

How do you know? You got divorced too quickly in Las Vegas and the marriage had no chance ... exposed or not.

How are you doing now? You OK?

Pep

<small>[ December 02, 2004, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by tobs:
my father (an emotionally and physically abusive alcoholic)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please look at this sentence ... and recognize you grew up in an environment that was served by dishonesty and secrecy. This is why "exposure" has such a foreign feel for you ... being open and honest is not "normal" for you.

Are you in Al-Anon?

Pep

Starfish, thank you!...my point exacty is that this "is NOT an exact science." The reason I gave my opinion (remember, opinions are like a**holes) is so that a BS considering exposure can be better prepared for the unexpected responses. In some situations not all family members, friends, and employers are going to react favorably to the BS which I'm assuming would feel very hurtful.

And WOW..."your opinion, as a WS, weighed against 30 years of marriage therapy by Harley....and countless examples of how exposure works to end affairz...(forgive me) counts so little I that I don't trust your opinion as far as I can spit." Nice!

Yeah sorry tobs....I guess that was a little over the top. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> What I meant to say...nah forget it...I'm just sorry. Every opinion is valuable and while reaction to exposure as you say....is not always predictable...we deal with the best odds we have. Forgive me for being disrespectful. I'm "techy" today... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Starfish , oh thank you so very much. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I appreciate your reply.

tobs...thank you for being so gracious chere. I think I spent too much time on the pregnancy/child board today. yikes!! The pain is so deep there that occasionally I get "jaded" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> . Let me ask you this though...do you think the fact that you "outed" yourself, rather than you were exposed, affected the outcome at work? Or do you think that part of the reason your employer was so forgiving was because you were honest? Was the woman you were involved with under your supervision at work...or was she someone with equal footing in the office? Also, what do you suspect the reaction of your father would have been?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">HUH? What happened to ethics and marital vows is a better question!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One of my personal favorites. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

If "exposure" runs the risk of driving a WS further away...than run they shall. And if they run USING the excuse that they shouldn't have been exposed, they have absolutely no respect for the BS anyway.

What does the BS have to be ashamed of ?

It wasn't their own choice to be humiliated in that way.


The BS doesn't cook up this recipe, it's a direct result of actions taken first by a WS.

I have a vested interest in how I'm treated as a person.

How can a less than noble action, seek this level of privacy ?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The point is that when a BS exposes the A to family, friends, and employers, the reaction may be adverse from what they expected.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As a BS, I could give a rat's patooty what reaction I got from family, friends, and employers....I'm not married to any of them.

I can assure you that worrying about humiliation will not help end the affair. Exposing the affair does not mean making a public spectacle of your spouse. Rather it means telling those people who are in a position of putting pressure on her, about it.

In any event, if the affair does not end the marriage cannot be saved. My ex-wife, refused to give up her lover, and eventually, decided that he was worth more than 20+ years of a rather good marriage, the love and respect of her two children, and the friends in our church. If I had to do it all over again, I would have erred on the side of exposing the affair to more people instead of fewer. I was to cautious and that may have cost me my marriage.

Starfish Firstly, it was an OM with whom I was having an A not an OW...now that would have made it REALLY interesting! I don't know that outing myself made a difference or not. I outed myself because my H had already threatened to do so. I told my boss about the A when I turned in my resignation (with 30 days notice...gee, can you tell I wasn't really ready to let go?). To my dismay, my supervisor told me that she had already suspected the A and that her boss had already questioned her about it as well. This is another lesson to WS...you may think you're being discreet, but you're not. I did not expect my boss (married 35yrs) or the CEO (married 40yrs) to condone my behavior. The HR Director was also aware of the situation and actually told my supervisor that the OM and I made a great couple! After I turned in my resignation, they were trying everything they could to get me to stay. It was crazy and not what I expected. Instead of holding me accountable ethically and professionally, they fanned they fire.

To answer your other question...the OM and I were in different departments that did not have to interact so there was never an issue of rank.

My father? Honestly, I believe his negative reaction would not have been based on moral ground. Rather, I can almost guarantee he would have told me I was stupid for risking my comfortable lifestyle...meaning money...And that would be his sober-self talking. The drunk-self would just use a lot of expletives. I was so emotionally weakened at the time that I was ready to commit suicide if my H were to tell my father.

Several other people in our M circle were told about the A. Some of the best advice I have ever received came from a GF who had had an EA and whose EH had had an EA/PA. She saw through my nonsense and didn't romaticize what I was doing. My mother and siblings were told about the A, as were my in-laws. My M-in-law also figured it out before my EH told her. Again, everybody figures it out. For the most part, my EH and I received tremendous support from friends & family. We lost a few M couples who didn't know how to respond to our crisis, but that's also par for the course when you get D.

So, I do believe that exposure can be a very useful tool to create a barrier between the WS and the OP. I also believe that the support of family and friends during a M crisis is very beneficial to recovery. My warning is that care should be given when "exposing" the A and that the reaction to exposure may be unexpected.

I appreciate your graciousness as well, Starfish and I'm sure I can learn from your experiences. Thank you for sharing.

What I don't understand is this
If an affair partner is so wonderful that a person is willing to risk his marriage for them then why would they want to hide it in the first place? Why would the BS exposing the affair be a bad thing if the WS is as happy with his/her new partner as he/she seems to be?

Could it be that the WS might be ashamed of his/her actions and of the other person? How does a WS reconcile hiding someone away like a sordid secret when they profess to love that person? What purpose does it serve other than to protect the WS from scrutiny. How do they explain their shame of their relationship to the OP?

If it is all so wonderful why hide it in the first place? Why would the BS exposing it affect anyone?

Could it be that the thing that is so attractive deep down is the forbiden secrecy nd the fantasy?

Part of our plan for reconciliation involved my partner telling our significant others in my presence. This was very hard for all of the involved parties, but very therapeutic and helpful to our recovery. The fact that He did this means a lot to me.
C&S

Betrayedinjersey ,

As a BS, I could give a rat's patooty what reaction I got from family, friends, and employers....I'm not married to any of them.

...well, my H did care and he told me that he felt even more humiliated by my employers reaction.