A few days ago my husband asked for a divorce but he has no intention of leaving home. I have a thread on this entitled "he's asked for a divorce but wont leave. What to do?".

Yesterday an internet friend of mine, who is conversant with MB principles, suggested that I do a PlanB with him living here.

As we chatted about this a strategy unfolded. Firstly that I would cease to do "wifely" things for him.If we are separated then he can do all his own washing and cooking for example. At the moment I am very much his confidant. My friend suggested that I set out to him that if we are separated that this can no longer continue. We also go shopping together on a regular basis when we chat and discuss.. Following this strategy would basically mean that I simply do half the shopping myself and leave him a list for his part. I also suggested dividing child care up. At the moment he spends most of his time on the computer. If he wishes to live separately then he can come in and make supper for teh children and care for them at least 3 nights a week whilst I go out. I am a stay at home mother. As such I am quite prepared to c ontinue cleaning etc whilst he is out at work. The PlanB from home would just mean that I cease to spend time with him or do personal things for him.

I have been doing a Plan A for the best part of a year. My friend suggested that I try this because I have nothing to lose. I wanted to run it past you guys before doing anything (and besides...I would wait til school starts again on 10th January to make a start).

This would also help t prepare me for divorce , which is what PlanB also addresses.

All comments gratefully appreciated and Happy new year to all!

<small>[ December 31, 2004, 05:14 AM: Message edited by: Debbra ]</small>

I have heard about people doing this, but it would be quite hard. You would still be giving him the idea that he still can have his cake and eat it too.

Isn't there a way you can file for separation and force him to move?

Debbra,

It sounds like you put alot of thought into this. I agree that it will prepare you both for being single especially if he's not motivated to move out, and more importantly give you back a sense of control in a very out-of-control situation.

If he feels any sense of responsibility for breaking up the family like this, then maybe he won't try and sabotage your Plan B, but rather help you into the next phase of your life.

Believer...no way to move him out legally here unless he becomes violent. hard? yes, but less hard than having to move out and uproot my children.

Gottobeme...ty for your support...To be honest Im still hoping that it might turn him round !

Is there anyone else out there with experience of PlanB with husband at home?

<small>[ December 31, 2004, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: Debbra ]</small>

I know it has been done here. Hopefully more people will chime in.

bump!

Dear Debra,

I CA legally if one's name is on a rental agreement or title, etc....they can't be 'kicked out'. However that piece of knowledge was not known to the Ws. So he wanted out and later when he came back and acted like an azz, I put plan B into action and he got to spend his time out wherever he wanted. Geeze, he spent a lot of those nights sleeping in his truck instead of the OW's bed. LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Guess OW's bed wasn't that fun a place after all. LOL!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Anyway, the legal part was not known to him but I put him out anyway. The point is that I didn't have physical abuse charges filed, I still put him out. If he wants to figure out the legal part, he needed to do that homework himself.

R U getting my drift on this point? Is ignorance bliss? Sometimes and sometimes it helps even in the fog. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

L.

Orchid...we were both at the lawyers toegther when she told is this particular picece of case law..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

So you are saying he knows you can't force him out?

Ok, there are other ways..... I stopped doing the WS' laundry and even went so far as to take a bag of it and hung it on OWs front door! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Need t/b creative? How are you doing today?

L.

precisely Orchid....and ontop of it I have flu which meant i lost the first day of the year!

Yeah not doing his laundry and other personal things are the lines upon which I am thinking.....

Dang I wish hed grow up!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Debbra:
<strong>Dang I wish hed grow up! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He would when you stop babying him <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

You could play the fog back to WS ... as Orchid suggested ... try this, tell him since both of you DV'ng, you are relieves your duty as W anymore. That includes laundry, meal, SF, etc. Say it like it is normal. It is not LB'ed as long as WS buys it.

-rh-

Hi Debbra,

Sorry you have been sick. The flu is yucky!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

HOpe you are feeling better soon! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

L.

debb...

I am a little confused...
plan b is about maintaining some hope of reconcilliation... and totally removing yourself from a spouses chaos.....

Do you want to do that...
or are you thinking divorce?

if you plan B him in the home...then you need the plan b letter...full of hope and belief in him, you and the marriage...

if you plan B him without the letter you actions will appear hostile...

if you two are going to pursue maintaining a residence while pursueing divorce..this does not appear to be the time to put up communication blocks....

why won't he leave
and then if he won't why won't you..
you left him once before..correct?

what will serve the children best..that's where you have to start...


ark

hanks for yopur imput rh and ark. The very reason I posted this was because i want to consider all my options before deciding on a plan of action.

I sat him down today and told him that I willl NOT divorce him until he has made a concentrated effort on our marriage. He replied "You mean I have to be tied in your apron strings". I explained how much I neeed him but above all how much teh children need us to be together. he remained unconvinced. Anyway ...he has my terms. If he wants a divorce he has to first try the MB programme for at least 6 months. I explained I could never forgive myself , for breaking up our family without trying my best, but that he needs to make some effort too.

He is just still so hurt and bitter. Very much like a hurt and angry child.....

Ark...my children have been shuffled round enough in the last few years. My 5 y o has severe behavioural problems and has been in 4 schools in the last year. he has finally started making some progress in his fathers class. I refuse to uproot my kids again in the short term. I know I may have to long term in order to get work but i want to put this off as long as possible. That is why i seriously want to explore the possibility of PlanB from home. I know I have done an excellent PlanA. My husband relies on me for so many of his needs now. I dont think even he realises how much. I am simply hoping that a move to PlanB might help to jolt him out of cloud cookoo land into teh real world.

bump!

Debb...

I feel like you are just being ingnored...

I keep turning your situation over and over in my brain...and am sort of struggling with it...

I'm gonna start off with being I don't know if I am being politically correct or incorrect so just bear with me....

Your situation is not different than most here on some levels...
and then it is different on some levels...

the affair..
the conclusion he doesn't want to be married any more...

the same...

difference is that he is not leaving for an specific OP as there is no current OP or affair...

but wants to leave to explore a whole new different life style...

so you got a bitter angry mean man-child in your home...
who doesn't want to be there...
won't leave...
and is perfectly happy making his non-real-decision his decision...that really in the end...

lets him off the hook completely....
cause in the end it will be you that decides...
and you will be blamed for the whole demise...and he will be free of being the 'bad guy'...

which is exactly what he is...
but won't face...

Do you really think you can get past the new choices he has made about himself (discovery)
and do you really think that you two can be happily married again....

I don't think ultimatums will work
I am not convinced that plan B in this stage will work...cause your communication right now is so bad....
that cutting it off...might cause you more damage and crisis and pain...

we know that people don't usually like plan b at first...and often the WS escalates some bad behaviors....
the beauty of a real plan B <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> is that the BS is totally cut off and protected from that escalated behavior...
but plan B in your home...will put you right in the firing line...
could you really maintain plan B when he attacks you through the children....


would he agree to counseling to figure out how to get through this period towards divorce...
because that would atleast open up the communication highway...
and it not be you giving ultimatums
and him being snotty, mean and withdrawn..

that if he WANTS a DIVORCE...then dammitt he has to earn his DIVORCE...by proving that he will be a good father.
and will not BLAME you....

like dangle the divorce carrot in front of him...even if that is not your goal..it is a possiblity...but it may make him more receptive to really working with you ...and the unkown future....

I don't know deb....
what are YOU thinking..
do you want him as a partner..
and do you think he can be one..

ARK

Ark...this is one thing that I find very difficult . "The blame factor". The truth is that I made very many bad decisions and precipitated this whole situation. Now, he detests my participation in MB because he says that ppl always view him as "the bad one". Its desperately important to him not to be seen as "the bad one" but my whole role in this to be seen. OK I fully admit to it. I take my share of of the blame for making bad decisions. it doesnt matter what the factors were that sparked that, we can all pass the buck very efficiently. I dont see the need for there to be blame or weighing up of who did more bad stuff. As far as Im concerned all these things are long done. What has passed, even if it is happened an hour ago, cannot be changed. The fact is that we are now in this situation. We are 2 adults who are very good friends and who used to be very much in love with each other. We have both made mistakes, of different kinds and different degrees.We have 7 children. & children who have been through so much and who so desperately need the stability of a home with 2 parents who are stable and loving in every way. personally I think its a time to forget about personal wants. Its very much selfishness that has been the root of this whole situation; putting self before the family. I remember a time when I said "I cannot sacrifice my happiness for anyone else". Now I hear my husband saying teh same thing.

So, In answer to your questions, this is still very much the man that I married, the one I chose as father to my children. He has changed in many ways but essentially he remains the same person. I do believe that our marriage can make it. In the latest MB newsletter we were reminded that it takes 2 ppl to work on a marriage. I feel that I have been working on this alone for so long. The worse thing is that I know that he used to feel that way.

It took sme time away from my husband for me to realise that i needed to come back. I guess that is one of teh reasons that I so desperately want him to leave. As long as he is in this situation, I dont feel that he is going to mvoe forward. Back to counselling. The only properly qualified counsellor here works teh same hours as my husband and therefore it is impossible to see her. We were seeing her during teh summer holidays. At the moment we are point blank on counselling. he sees an amateur IC. he refuses to go for non professional MC.

This planB from home was just an idea suggested to me by a friend. I wanted to throw it out onto thsi forum to see what ppl thought. I just feel like we are going nowhere. Emotionally he is very much entrenched in the same place that he was when he found about my one night stand. he doesnt seem to have the tools to dig himself out and I can be building as beautiful garden as i like but as long as he is sitting in his trench , he doesnt see it.

Thankyou from teh bottom of my heart ark, for mulling over my situation so well and having such a good take on it....

Deb..
I respect which ever decision you make...

I also agree with the blame game serving neither...

the question is/was do you believe that you and he can rebuild this...

and you believe yes...

so I say lets move from there...

the problems I see with you going plan b right now..is that it most likely will not work....

the biggest problem is the communication component....

plan b following a 'good' plan a...(not saying you haven't done a marvelous plan a here) is that there is actually pretty good communication going on between the WS and BS...it's not necessarily the good type of communication the BS wants to hear...and there usually isn't any commitment to reconciling...but there is communication that is pleasant and reasonable...

this is a big key factor in to the effectiveness of plan b...
because in plan b the WS desperately misses that communication connection....
right now all you have is angry posturing banter...

from him
from you...
doesn't matter...
plan B will only be seen as a relief...because lately there hasn't been good stuff.....

and I fear it will back fire and be seen as all the things plan b is not...

plan b is not a knee jerk reaction to his wanting a divorce...which is how he will use it against you...

and the biggest block is that you and the children have no real refuge from it....

I think you go a verbalized pro-divorce stance...
which is admittedly tricky....

so lets hash it out....

the truth is you don't want divorce....but that's the only path he sees right now....anything else will be seen as you controlling him and all that is evil in the world...

so go to his playing field...

he wants a divorce...

these are things you need to know...

so he wants a divorce...

so say to him..

dear i hear and understand that you want a divorce...BUT that you will not leave...

so my question is what is your plan about this...

what is your plan to make this as least traumatic on the children...

what is your plan to get you and I to a place where we an communicate...

how is this acheivable so that the pain you feel now stops...

these are things that he may be willing to discuss...the through this discussion he may really start to face the reality of this choice...and see it beyond just the fantasy of ending his pain....

that the act of divorce doesn't stop pain...
being civil and decent does.....

ultimatums of working on the marriage....he can't fathom...

plans to figure out how to divorce he can fathom....

and it sounds like though he says he wants it..we all know words are cheap and our actions define..

people who want divorced get divorced...

you don't have to agree to divorcing..but maybe the path way in to his communication is agreeing to discussing divorce....

whatcha think?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

ARK

On the subject of communication,Ark, my husband and i spend abotu 2 hrs today just sitting down talking about our feelings. It was mainly him doing the talking. I explaind to him how important it was to me for him to leave. I also asked him what he wanted from teh situation, what he visualised as the ideal outcome. It became pretty clear that what he wants to do is to go out and try this alternative lifestyle. I know he is not looking for promiscuity. He also knows thta the day that he moves out that I move on to PlanB. I explained this to him today so that he understood that it wasnt about vindictiveness but for him to realise what it was truly like without me and so as to avoid pain. There was a time when i too left for what i thought would be a better lifestyle for me. I understand where he is coming from.

He does at least seem to be coming to an understand of why it is important that he does leave, for both of us. I explained that it seems to me that at the moment he is in a bubble looking onto the lifestyle he wants outside. In teh meantime he does not look into teh rest of the bubble, where the family is, because he is so transfixed with the fantasy. He uses one as an excuse not to do the other and instead does nothing.

He still seems very unclear about what kind of outcome he wants. To be honest today I felt like a shrink, asking him questions to have him explore his feelings. I was very careful not to contradict him or make judgements but simply to share back what I felt. I did ask him how he felt about the homosexuality hurting his family. he was slow to answer and very vague. Replied something like , "We all do things that hurt otehrs".

There does seem to finally be good communications reopening between us. He went down to teh store to get some soup for the sickies (most of us are still suffering from some degree with flu)and said that he had had a few ideas that he wants to talk about later. he is out at the moment with our 12 y o, has taken him to see The Three Kings Cavalcade, which marks the end of the Christmas season.

I have agreed to discussing divorce but Ive also made it very clear that I do not want this.

Thankyou again for your continued support. I really think that we ae going to need to move down this road in order to move forward. I think we will need a proper PlanB, with him elsewhere, in order for me to escape, in some way, the pain of his decisions, and for him to realise just how much I do meet his needs right now. In the meantime we will go sequence dancing next Monday night because its something that we both very much enjoy and that I know he will miss desperately when we move onto PlanB. I truly think that a proper planB will expose his fantasies to the light of day.

He says he is afraid of my turning the children against him. I reassured him that I will never do this but he also knows that the older ones already despise him for his decisions.

Any comments?