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KMEJ Offline OP
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Fair enough.

I am trying. Obviously my way of trying is not enough. I am looking into other options currently, including divorce.

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I again told him his behavior was unexceptable, he said I was unexceptable.

Nope...it IS acceptable. You have been accepting this behavior from him for months...if not years. What would make him think that THIS episode was any different? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

He proves that here...

I tried talking with H about the up coming March and what it means to me, he waves his hand in the air, turns around, says "yatta yatta Yeah right Whatever!".

He does not believe a word that you say. How often have you threatened him with divorce and separation now?

Call it a DJ, but I bet that you have used those words so many times (with ZERO action) that they no longer mean a thing to him.

He doesn't believe you...and he won't believe you ever...at the rate you are going.

Say what you mean...and mean what you say.

JMHO
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KMEJ Offline OP
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Say what you mean mean what you say was/is my fatherss trade mark for me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

A few years back I remember me saying I wanted a divorce became pratically a stable in every fight. Once I realized I was doing it so often I stopped. Yeah I meant it in the heat of the moment- however I turned into the little boy who cried wolf.

We seperated for 10 months, and I told him I did not want a divorce, took the blame for everything that went wrong. Became a classic doormat, for the first 6 months.

WE have been back together now for 10 months, and I have said I do not think this is going to work twice- both in the last month. I mean it, it scares me in my heart because when I say it now both my head and my heart are in sync- not just my head- or angry head. I think about it more often when we are not fighting. I have been setting up boundaries and H follows them for a while, then plows them down. The things I have tried as reprocussions do not even effect H. I have tried what ever I can think of, besides walking out the door, and to be honest the reason I have not was when I did that was the night he decided to start his A- and he blames me for it. I guess I am afraid if I leave again I will be pushing him to have another A. I realize that is stupid talk, as I can not force someone to cheat-

I need to see the forest through the trees. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<small>[ January 05, 2005, 04:39 PM: Message edited by: KMEJ ]</small>

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> he threw cardboard boxes at my head at full speed.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is abusive behavior towards you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> the youngest was standing within arms reach of me and it could hit him instead- he said he did not care but stopped anyway.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is abusive behavior towards your child.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"I did nothing wrong...oh wait I forgot, YOUR PERFECT". </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is an attempt to take the focus and blame off him and place it on you.

I am rather new to this forum so I may be speaking out of turn, but what you are talking about here is an abusive relationship. As I have been in an abusive marriage, I feel compelled to speak. Once I was away from my marriage, things became clearer. One thing was this-it is amazing what one will accept as "normal" behavior over a time period. This is not normal behavior and you do not have to tolerate it. You are choosing to. By continuing to stay in this relationship you are giving him permission to treat you and your children abusively. One thing that prompted me to leave my abusive marriage (since my self-worth was so destroyed and I didn't care enough about myself to do it for me) was the fact that I had two children (a son then 3, and a daughter, then 5). Not only did I believe THEY deserved better, I tried to picture them in the future...my son as an abuser and my daughter as an abused wife. Because that was exactly what they were learning.

<small>[ January 05, 2005, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: frozen1229 ]</small>

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KMEJ Offline OP
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I too see that. Thank you for posting.

I have a question however. Do your kids see their dad still? Do they not see them in another relationship? Is he not abusive in the new one?

I know it a dumb thing to think- but what if it is me? What if I am bringing out the bad in him? Will he be better in his next relationship or will I be subjecting him to someone else? He can be a good dad some days, but what happens when he is in another mood like yesterday and it is his weekend, and I am not there to protect them?

Sorry all things going through my head.

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do your kids see their dad still? Do they not see them in another relationship? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's a complicated answer. To try to make it short, he is my son's father. He didn't get any visitation with my daughter, thank God. When we divorced (son was 3), the visitations became scary and it seemed the police were always involved. I finally put my foot down and told him no more visitation- he could file a contempt citation against me if he chose to. He didn't. Instead he chose to continue to drink and use drugs until it eventually landed him in prison. When he was released from prison, he immediately took me to court to get visitation (son was 12 by this time). So I managed to protect my child at least through some of the most impressionable years. He did finally get visitation. There have been low points, such as him smoking pot in front of my son and encouraging him to keep that secret. A real low point was Christmas, when he wanted my son Christmas day and to lure him he promised him that he would have him home in time with Christmas with my family (an occasion that is the highlight of my son's whole year). The time came, and to punish me he told my son he wouldn't take him and told me it was to pay me back for all the Christmases I had kept him away from HIM. By this time, I think my XH began to realize that our son was old enough to choose and see things for himself. He quickly made an effort to straighten up. My son is now almost 15 and the situation is not perfect, but at least manageable. My son also shows NO abusive tendencies (he was very violent at age 3 when we divorced).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Is he not abusive in the new one? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">For the longest time, he wasn't abusive in other relationships (he never has the same one very long), and I began to really believe that it WAS my fault, just like he'd told me so many times. Then about three years ago, he got some girl pregnant. They were not married but continuing a relationship, and he beat her up (while pregnant) in front of MY son. She is now in court with him fighting to keep him from getting visitation of their 1.5 year old. It's odd how history repeats itself.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know it a dumb thing to think- but what if it is me? What if I am bringing out the bad in him? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As stated above, I thought the same thing. But the simple fact is, you are not responsible for his behavior. He is. You didn't CAUSE it, you can't CHANGE it, and you CAN'T CURE IT. I stuck around in my marriage hoping things would just change (or that I would change them). It is SCARY to leave, I know. I was 20 with a 3 and 5 year old. For me, staying was finally scarier than leaving. It's particularly hard when you feel so hopeless, worthless and beat down. I sat down with a friend, devised a plan to leave, set a date and when that date arrived I just acted like a robot carrying out my plan so that emotions weren't involved. That way I couldn't back out. The times I'd left before, I did it without a plan because it was in the middle of an emotional situation (spur of the moment). I always had to come back because I hadn't thought things through. That fact, along with my idle threats, caused me to lose my credibility with him.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">will I be subjecting him to someone else? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not your problem. Your loyalty is to yourself and your children. You are NOT RESPONSIBLE for his actions, even his future behavior.
(see the 3 C's above again)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He can be a good dad some days</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It has been my experience that no one is all bad or all good. The bad just has to be at a level which you find acceptable.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">what happens when he is in another mood like yesterday and it is his weekend, and I am not there to protect them </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, there are precautions you can take, depending on the extremity of the sitation and the state you live in. The FIRST thing I did when I left was get a VPO (victim's protective order). It's a little different than a restraining order. You could perhaps ask an attorney what your children's right's are concering this issue and the issue of emotional abuse to limit his visitation if that becomes a problem. It would be typical for him to use the children against you. While that is horrible, it is not illegal. All you can do is not compound the situation by reciprocating (I never told my son opinions about his dad, only facts. I told facts because I didn't want enable my XH by lying to my son for him). The only person you can control is yourself. Fill your children's heads with reassurances from you. If YOU think it's YOUR fault, can you even imagine how they probably feel??

I'm very sorry you are going through this. I know it's difficult and scary. You aren't powerless. It just feels that way. You have power over yourself, your's and your childrens futures and the power to make decisions. I admire your strength and if answering your questions and sharing my experiences helps, I would love the opportunity to give something back to this forum that is helping me through a difficult time.

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Ohhhh [censored]-
H just pointed out to me the promise I made to him a year ago. H always said the only reason I wanted him to come back was so that I could be the one to leave him, and I promised I would never leave him! And now that is what I am telling him I want, by saying that this is not working for me.

I am a person who tries hard to stick to her word, and he is using it against me. What am I to do? I do not want to leave H, but his behavior and treatment of the children and I is making the living conditions unbareable!

All he kept saying was- see I told you you would leave!

Ouch- that stings, it is hitting me right in the head and heart. I did not say that to him to give him a permission to treat me however he deemed! I just meant I would not take him back from OP to just turn around and dump him. I am trying really hard to make this marriage a go. Granted I could improve in other areas, but to use this against me!

NOW WHAT DO I DO????

<small>[ January 05, 2005, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: KMEJ ]</small>

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He is manipulating you. Your first loyalty is to yourself and to your children.

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You changed the date of the party to coincide with a "possible" NFL playoff game that your H would be home for? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

He was unwilling to prioritize your son's party so you changed the party to a day when he might be home watching an important game...

Did he agree that he would be available on that day to help with the party?

I am afraid that you have set yourself up to be disappointed when the game is his primary interest and the party a distraction.

What did you decide to do for the party?

Sorry for so many questions but I am concerned that your son is going to take a back seat to the TV. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

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You changed the date of the party to coincide with a "possible" NFL playoff game that your H would be home for?

KMEJ-H claimed he did NOT open my e-mail- and does not read anything I send him, that when I send him things he just deletes them <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> . That I should have discussed the date with him first, I tried, he told me to do what ever he wanted. The original date is our youngests sons actual birthday- I figured he would have at least part of the day off for that anyway- not work 9-9! He will not even try to get the day off, as he wants the next for football <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

He was unwilling to prioritize your son's party so you changed the party to a day when he might be home watching an important game...

KMEJ- He would hold it against me forever if I did not reschedule the party, believe me we went head to head for days, and I was tempted to have the party with out him, told him so, and he told me I did not value him. Yeah that is why I gave him a months notice!

Did he agree that he would be available on that day to help with the party?

KMEJ- no he would not even look up what time the game "might" be- but said if the party took place during the game he would not participate <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> so I went on line at work (which I am not suppose to do anymore) and looked it up since H would not, found out the game would be at 1 if it takes place- so I scheduled the party for 6, and no he has no intentions of helping me with any of it.- In case you are wondering, YES I AM LIVID WITH THIS MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am afraid that you have set yourself up to be disappointed when the game is his primary interest and the party a distraction.

KMEJ- I am just making sure he has nothing to use against me later. Also so that my son is not disappointed. I plan on taking the kids tomorrow to Chuck E. Cheese (oldest will be 8 tomorrow) and on the youngest birthday- the original date of the party, I took the day off and I am taking the boys out for a day of fun and to McDonalds. I will enjoy them and he will miss out. Not that he will notice anyway- he will probably just be mad that I spent money <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

What did you decide to do for the party?

KMEJ-THis party is the Family party, the kid party Dylan wants to wait a little and see if we get snow, if we do he wants to go sledding, have a snowball fight, and capture the flag in the snow and then come back have hot cocoa sit in the hot tub and then have a sleep over! Big plans for a little man. If no snow who knows!!!

Sorry for so many questions but I am concerned that your son is going to take a back seat to the TV

KMEJ- all take a back seat to what H wants. If he wants to spend time with us then he is amazing, otherwise I feel we are an obsticle in his way. That makes me angry! The man is 26 acting 16, when is he going to grow up????

<small>[ January 05, 2005, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: KMEJ ]</small>

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H just pointed out to me the promise I made to him a year ago. H always said the only reason I wanted him to come back was so that I could be the one to leave him, and I promised I would never leave him! And now that is what I am telling him I want, by saying that this is not working for me.

kmej
he promised to forsake all others, love honor and cherish.

p1ss on him, weak a$$ power play.
he has broken VOWS which to me means a heck of alot more thane a promis

you are the one who has to make the decision of when enough is enough.

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it does hurt to type doesn't it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Thanks Dalson.

I know you are right. Now time to find the courage. Want to send your nazi-like trainer my way to work some sense into me?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

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i would rather send his big over puffed self over to squish your h

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Thanks again Dalson- time for my run- will you be on later?

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im back i am at my office, my w took the computer when she cleaned the house, so this is the only computer i have, i have a sales meeting tommorow so i have some work to do. i like you am addicted to this sight and spend my whole day checking up on everyone. but im self employed so im only screwing myself.

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Thanks for anwering my questions. Now I am just plain ole dumbfounded... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

He told you that he would not take off time for a birthday party but then accused you of leaving him out when you planned one? You say he is acting 16? No, he is acting about 3.

He has no intention of helping with the family party? Then why are you having it?

You are setting yourselves up for a fight here, why take the bait?

You are not going to be able to make him happy no matter what hoops you continue to jump through, he is self absorbed.

You are planning a fun day with the boys for their birthday and that is all YOU can do. Enjoy them and let your H miss out, he is CHOOSING to be left out.

The plan for a fun snow party sounds great, will you have it regardless of your H's commitment? Do not depend on him, call a few friends and make sure that you have ample adult supervision.

Is the weekend family party for your family, his, or combined? Are they aware of your personal situation?

I would make a big pot of soup or chili, salad, bread and a cake and enjoy yourself no matter what he does. He is likely to be a non participant and if you allow his actions to ruin the party, your son loses...

Let us know how things go.

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you are right about his behavior! +-

Tonight we all celebrated our oldest sons birthday. We went to Chuck E. Cheese for pizza and pop, and then out for ice cream, dropped H off at bowling and now we are home and the two older boys are happily with their GameBoy's- oldest one got a new one today with new games- so they are shareing, the youngest is sound asleep on my chest, I am sitting here typing to the rythum of his snores, gotta cherish these moments.

The family party is for both sides, and yes if asked why I was changing the date I told them why.

I will still have the party with out H's help, as I did the same thing last year for the birthdays, as H was out with OW and showed up just as the party was starting. This year I am making two spiderman cakes (where I rent a cake pan and use all the cake decorateing supplies and they turn out really cool- I made a Scooby Doo one for our middle sons birthday in September) and I am getting pizza- so I am makeing it easy on myself this year!!

No my side has no real idea of the extent of H's mood swings, however they know things are not smooth sailong just by H's attitude when he decides to show up to family events like Christmas, and when he choses to not show up to birhday parties and family gathering because he plain does not want too, they are not blind, just not fully informed. His side of the family knows more, but choses to make excuses for him, as there is ALWAYS a reason H does something, or I HAD to have done something to egg him on, or something along those lines.

H and I still have not talked about the other day. He has actually been really weird around me, and going out while I am at work shopping, but if I call him and ask where he is is says he "your moms" I ask what is he doing and he says "your mom"- and that irritates me greatly!!

Today he got me a present because it marks the day 8 years ago that I gave him his first Child- nothing big, but I appriciated it, and I really do like it!!

He has his good side. I am still struggleing with what I plan on doing right now, as things are not the way I had planned to live my life, and I am still feeling I need to get out, but he is doing just enough to hold me here, and I fear it is part of his game.

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Not much I can say but, {{{{{KMEJ}}}}}.

KMEJ you deserve so much more. I wish you the best of luck with whatever you choose to do.

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Good to hear from you MIF? Thank you for your words. How are things for you?

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KMEJ:
<strong> Good to hear from you MIF? Thank you for your words. How are things for you? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Read here
I'm hangin' in there. Today wasn't to bad. Yesterday was tough on me for some reason.

This has helped me quite a bit. Go ahead and call me a pansey. I am a big enough man that I can take it now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

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