Hi everyone -

Moved this from the 'Just Found Out Thread' - hoped I'd get more help here....

I'm having another major problem now - my wife is avoiding me as much as possible. I haven't seen her more than two or three minutes per day in the past five.

I also am having a problem that maybe most BS's do, I feel like I'm on the edge of simply falling apart mentally - I can't stop my panic and anxiety, even with upping my doses of Xanax/Valium - I'm afraid of ODing. At least I'm right there at work in the Emergency Romm - I'd be right there with all my doctor and nurse friends. This may sound like an idiot question, but how am I going to cope with this?

I've already alerted the two charge nurses and the triage nurses that I've had a major family crisis and things are really messed up right now - so they are aware of some of the problem (not the actual thing) - I'm not a drug-addict, I don't do drugs (anymore - hey, I lived thru the 70s) for pleasure, but this is getting to be more than i can seem to handle. I cannot afford to lose any work time, my wife doesn't make any money (she's a FT student), and beyond that, she would view me taking time off work as a perfect opportunity to LB me - it took me almost 6 months to land a job after I lost my last one.

I have written and rewritten and rewritten what I want to say in starting my plan A - so that it will be in love and with empathy, no LBs on my part.

This morning I woke up after about 3 hours of sleep, she was up, so I went out to talk to her - asked if she was going to be around later - but all she does when I ask that is get really defensive.

I think she is...with the OM at night when I work - but I have no way to tell. I also think a lot of her friends are in on this thing - that's a deduction I made from overhearing a phone conversation today.

Anyway, I went back to sleep, and when I woke up she was leaving the house - I don't think she'll be back before I have to leave again.

Should I maybe leave her a letter telling her what I know and that I want to talk about it? I really wanted to do it face to face.

And I love her so much. This may literally kill me. It feels like it. Any suggestions?

David

I'm so sorry David. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
It's good that you recognize the impact this has on you emotionally and have let your co-workers in on a bit of it.

Yes, you need to confront your W. You need to know what is going on so that you can have a plan for yourself.

I'm not sure I understand. Did you discover an affair? It sounds like you have been through D-day and there is continued contact with your W and the OM, is that correct?

You deserve to know the truth and you can start by telling her what you suspect. If she does not admit to it, use whatever means necessary to find out.

Are you having SF with her? As a medical professional, I don't have to tell you to be careful.

Sorry for so many questions, just trying to figure out your situation. Keep us posted, Ladysing

Hey David- I work in a hospital too. I have taken a short term leave of absence as I came very close to suicide. I am going through lots of treatment now, and my job is also hanging by a thread due to my mental state.

Do you know for a FACT what's going on?? I mean you have concrete proof, or an admission from her??? If not, I suggest that you get that....I just got mine today and I feel oddly a million times better, just knowing I'm not crazy and that my gut feeling was right is the best feeling I've had in a long, long time.

My husband is insanely mad at me right now as I've exposed his affair to every single person I could think of....he said some REALLY nasty things to me, but I'm okay.....I know it's all fog talk, I know it's the alien speaking, not my husband.

I wish you the best David, God be with you.

The people on this site are a god send, and as someone told me the other day "Let go.....Let God" Give it to him David, he'll take it if you'll give it to him, and he'll help you make it through.


In Christian Love,
-Caren

Telling co-workers is a great idea. I did it almost immediately, and they have been a wonderful extended family for me.

I think we all went through the "I don't think I can survive" phase, but if we could then so will you. I lost about 20lbs and went from a size 4 to a 0 (I had to buy pants from the juniors section), because I couldn't eat or sleep the first 7 weeks at least. It seems harder to put it back on though (I am allergic to milk and soy, most safe foods are low fat/calories/cholesterol).

Please hang in there....it will be a hard road to travel, but you can do it!!!!

Hi all

Thanks for your replies! Yes, my wife is haveing at least an EA, if not a PA, I have definite proof - copies of emails, and also a security guard (rent-a-cop) best friend found out where the OM and my wife have met. I posted most of the details on the 'Just Found Out Board' and in the Emotional Needs threads, just am having a hard time finding a way to approach her in love - I am deeply in love with her (either that or addicted to her) and I plan on confronting her today.....

Really scary!

David

Me - 47
Her - 40
D-Day 12/26/04 (my birthday - happy b-day!)
Married 17 years
3 kids (9, 11, 16)

Hello,

The longer you refuse to confront your wife the stronger the emotional and physical bond with the OM will be. It is almost like your wife is caught in quicksand and is slowly going under while you contemplate whether to try and pull her out of it without hurting her feelings. Maybe this is a bad analogy but seriously your fear of hurting her feelings is allowing her to destroy your marriage and become more in love physically and emotionally with the OM. If the roles were reversed, do you think your wife would be frozen about speaking to you about the affair the way you seems to be? Your continued inaction is the worst possible course of action if you seriously wish to keep your marriage. No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change. I wish you luck.

Ok, everybody....

I confronted my wife, and she attacked me with every weapon in her arsenal. I stayed calm, I did not LB, I did not DJ.

She vrought up how evil it was of me to spy on her, she said that it fit my old pattern of lying (my main LB has been Dishonesty, I've worked on that for a long time now, I try to be totally truthful). In a way she is right - I did not tell her I was printing out her emails.

She told me she's been trying to get out of this marriage ever sine my EA four years ago. She also told me that she will not stop seeing this guy, although the affair is 'over'.

She wants us to immediately separate, and she wants a divorce. I know I have to take this all with a grain of sand, I understand that over the past few weeks she has built up a huge internal hatred of me, and that becasue of justifying her behavior.

What happens now?

We can't just separate - she is in school, needs me to help with the kids, etc.

And I love her so.

What is the next step?

I really need help here!

First, good on ya for keeping your cool. She is using every WS's favorite weapons -- anger, threats and bullying in order to keep you from interering with her double life. It is very, very common, which you already know if you've been reading here long.

***She vrought up how evil it was of me to spy on her, she said that it fit my old pattern of lying***

And of course, she has not been lying to you or anyone else about her cheating <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

***(my main LB has been Dishonesty, I've worked on that for a long time now, I try to be totally truthful).***

I can understand why she would be upset about dishonesty on your part, but someone might want to tell her that two wrongs do not make a right.

***In a way she is right - I did not tell her I was printing out her emails.***

You had every right to do this because (1) it affected you just as much as it did her, and (2) she was lying to you about it.

***She told me she's been trying to get out of this marriage ever sine my EA four years ago. ***

Uh-huh . . . and she has done what to "get out" of the marriage?

***She also told me that she will not stop seeing this guy, although the affair is 'over'.***

Sorry - this does not compute. MW "seeing" OM = Affair. This is not rocket science.

***She wants us to immediately separate, and she wants a divorce.***

If you do not want this, then do nothing. Make her do all the dirty work. Just take steps to protect yourself, as in securing your finances so she can't clean out your checking account or run up huge credit card debt.

***I know I have to take this all with a grain of sand, I understand that over the past few weeks she has built up a huge internal hatred of me, and that becasue of justifying her behavior.***

Well . . . like I said about two wrongs . . . is she happy now? How's this workin' for her?

***What happens now? We can't just separate - she is in school, needs me to help with the kids, etc.***

Sure you can seperate. If she's in school, that's her problem, not yours. Do what you have to do to make sure your kids are safe and secure, but for pete's sake make HER worry about stuff like school.

And I love her so. What is the next step? I really need help here!

Hang on -- others will be along soon, especially Monday morning. Read the Harley site. You cannot make her do anythign -- you can only tell her what you would like and what you are willing to be a part of. Don't let her abuse you any more than she already has. If she wants to go, open the door for her like a gentleman and let her go. Then she can't blame you for "not letting her leave and find happiness." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> She has to figure this one out on her own.

Just breath. Make this HER problem, not yours, as much as possible.
Mulan

Thanks for your kindness, Mulan -

Tonight is going to be very hard, I can tell. I've read thru this site, read a lot of his books, and I constantly read a lot of the posts here.

I guess you are right about her having to fend for herself, except that I think she is going to take the kids with her.

As for her wanting to be happy - I want her to be happy - she seems to think that the only way she can be happy is if I am out of her life, after 17 years of being together. She wasnt 'happy' when I met her, she's been in and out of being 'happy' throughout our marriage - I don't think she knows what happy is.

Like I said, this is gonna be a rought night - my shift is usually really lonely about the last 4-5 hours of the night, and then I have to come home to this house, where she will probably have me locked out and who knows what else.

Wish I had a crystal ball - hee hee

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by tanelornpete:
<strong> As for her wanting to be happy - I want her to be happy - she seems to think that the only way she can be happy is if I am out of her life, after 17 years of being together. She wasnt 'happy' when I met her, she's been in and out of being 'happy' throughout our marriage - I don't think she knows what happy is. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm sorry you are going through this. It sucks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> It's natural to wonder how you're going to get through. I know I did plenty of times. What got me through was my kids, my faith and the reserve each one of us has in us that we never know about until tested.

Something that I remembered while reading the part I quoted above is something Steve Harley told me one day early on in this mess.

He said, "You are WH's best chance for happiness. He doesn't know it right now, but you are."

It kept me going through some rough spots.

I'm thinking of you tonight and hoping the night is better than you expect.

Hey Pete,

I think you will find that confronting her and having her admit the affair, you will find your anxiety to go down. Why? Because now you know, now it is out. No more secrets. Believe me, knowing is ALWAYS better han not knowing.

Now, that being said, you asked "What do I do?" Good question. And you are a guy...so as a guy, you want a battle plan. Something you can follow step-by-step.

You have said you read all of the stuff on the website. Have you read Surviving an Affair? If not, get it immediately and read. It will be your guide for the next 6 months or more. Yes, I said "more." This is going to take awhile, so you might as well gear up for it.

You should immediately go to Plan A. If you want to know what that is, then please read this website (the main part) cover-to-cover. Read SAA. And start reading back thru these posts and threads. A lot of us have been where you are. And a lot of us have made it thru to marriages that we want. In my case, I started posting here in June 2002. You can watch my rollercoaster ride, as you can many others.

After Plan A will probably come Plan B. read on that...but you have awhile before you get there.

Plan A is meant to separate those two, and for you to begin to show the changes in you. Get this thru your head right now...you cannot change her. You can only change you. But interesting thing happens when one person changes...everyone else has to change also in order to react to your changes. So, get busy on working on you.

What are your Emotional Needs (ENs)? What are your WW's? What Love Busters have you been guilty of in the past? Where have you failed to be the Biblical husband, in loving her as Christ loves us? Hey, dont answer those questions to me (unless you need help with them). You answer them to yourself, because the answers will help you in your Plan A.

No Love Busters (LBs). None. if you have to say omething to her about any of this, use "I" statements. Example: "I feel that..." If you use "you" syayements, you will get a very combative wife.

You are NOT a doormat!! While you cannot love bust, you are allowed to setboundaries. If she is crossing them, politely say that you cannot talk any more on this and excuse yourself. Do not let her pull you into a fight or LBs...because she will try. It is a WS certainty. It helps them justify in their foggy, warped minds what they are doing.

The biggest advice I can give you outside of following the plan here is this...do not take ANYTHING personally. if your wife was drunk, would you take anything personally if she said something? Of course not, you would let her sober up first. well, your wife has a different kind of addiction. She is a mess. So, you must learn to decifer "fog-speak."

Not everything she will say is wrong. In her babble will be some truth. Learn to cull it out...because those nuggets of truth will be what you need to concentrate on in meeting her ENs and showing her that changes have been made. And will be the cracks in the fog that you will be able to shine a light into to help guide your wife out. If you need help with this, post here. there are many BS and FWSs that can help decifer what she is saying. if she says something, then jsut reverse babble her (Orchid is the expert on this!) and let it go. Dont argue with her...she wont get it anyway. She has to find her own way out.

But, YOU are her husband. You swore to love her, even in sickness. And guess what? She is sick right now. You told God that you would love her like He loves us. That means you are willing to die for her. So, are you? Are you willing to do what Jesus did...when everyone hated Him...He died for us anyway. Wives are not called to love us like this. But we are called to love our wives this way. You ready?

Because saving your marriage will require this. And once saved, keeping your marriage healthy will require this.

You have a lot of work to do...and most of it does not require your WW to do anything. What is up with the kids? Are they with you, or her? Is the OM around the kids? Think very hard about wanting to keep the kids with you. I did it, and it is THE main reason my wife was able to come thru the fog. As Steve Harley told me once "Those kids are your marriage's greatest asset...they will be what keeps your wife tied to you. thus they will be what brings her back." Look at Jon and Sue in SAA. The kids in their marriage did the same.

So, let's get on it. you want a battle plan, then lets do it. Read up...bring facts and questions here and the veterans will help you thru. If you are able, start counseling with Steve Harley.

I am praying for you man. I have been there. Time to be the man here. It isnt fair. It isnt easy. But your family, your kids...and your wife...are depending on you.

In His arms.

Forst, Mortarman, thank you for your inightful and helpful post. It's going to take time to absorb all you wrote.

I have another question: my W has already started in with the kids - she told our daughter (9 years old) that from now on she would be sleeping where daddy used to sleep, and daddy needs to find a new place to sleep. She has decided who will live with me (the oldest, while she will keep the youngest two). I know this is that angry 'fog' speaking, but isn't this damaging the kids in some way? How have others handled such a situation.

I was worried that when I got home the locks would be changed, I guess this is a good sign of sorts - at least she's still here....

Well, I know she wants my income while she studies, and my daycare while she is gone (most of the day). Guess I should expect some sort of weird arrangement proposal to come popping up.

In any event, I don't want the kids placed in the middle of this. I had an EA about 4 years ago, asn when it came clear, I sat down with the kids and confessed it to all of them and asked their forgiveness. I'd like to see her do the same, although I know I ask too much. I wanted the kids to see that dads can make big mistakes, and be even bigger by confessing and asking forgiveness. They had no problem with it - my W has bever gotten past the resentment.

I have a lotto work to do!

David (very tired! Just finished a 60 hour week)....Sleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeppppppppppp!

Do not move out...do ot separate the kids. Again, read my threads. Because my WW was so addicted and foggy, since I wouldnt move out nor pay to support her moving out with the kids...then she just moved out on her own. A BIG mistake on her part!!

You are about your marriage. If she wants it to end, then she can leave...and leave everything behind. The family, the marriage, stays together.

WSs are notorious for "hanging" themselves. so, just sit back and document. In my case, my insistance that the kids stay with me...and then me actually getting the kids in court (primary custody) led to my wife coming out of the fog.

No way do you let those kids go anywhere. Be ready to take care of them on your own should she move out. My ife was in nursing school when she moved out, so she was barely able to support herself.

Anyway, you get the point. To the kids, just remind them you love them and that you arent going anywhere.

In His arms.

Hi David,

Glad to see you found your way over here to GQ finally.

I just have a few things to add into what the other's have said,some are reiterated.

Do not leave the home.Even if your WW goes to the trouble of changing the locks,if you jointly own the home or you own it alone she has no right to keep you out or take legal recourse either,at least at this point.Even most police will say that they don't mind if you "break in" to get back into your own home.

So your WW thinks she can just kick you out of your own bed and make you sleep somewhere else huh? I don't think so.SHE needs to go,her behavior is unacceptable and therefore she has no right to this assumption.She will be mad that you refuse to leave but don't make this easy on her ok? Repeat that sentence.You will not finance,support or cave in to her "demands" so she can feel better.Dragging up the past is easy for her so she can use that to deny her current behavior.

Children.Well,unfortunately,kids do get dragged into the mess by WS's all the time.It's sick but it happens.So you do whatever you can to protect them.If your WW is starting to use them for her own selfish needs or to get them onto her side or whatever she thinks she is doing,"counterattack".By this I mean that you also have a duty to explain what is going on,on an age appropriate levels,since I am sure they are very confused and scared about what is going on.This is especially true of WS's who do not protect them in this mess and give them too much information or try introducing them to the OP,stuff like that.They didn't protect the BS from the beginning so they usually do not protect the children either,that is if they are even involved with the children anymore.You may even have to go the legal route if your WW consistently tries to take your kids from you or make arrangements without your knowledge or agreement.It's pretty audacious of your WW to already suggest splitting the children(that would make me VERY mad)and deciding who gets whom.

Anyway,the point here is to remember what it is you are supposed to be doing and stick to that plan no matter what your WW is doing.That will help keep YOU steady through all this.Your WW will be all over the map with demands,emotions,actions,etc.But for your own sanity,know what you are doing or you might start sinking.I have seen it happen here time and time again.That's why I am so grateful Mortarman is back with his wealth of advice.

Hope you slept well!

O

<small>[ January 17, 2005, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

Hi everybody -

Got a few hours of sleep, am thinking a little clearer...

My wife text messaged me from class telling me she was going over to her parents to tell them what she had done and that we are now getting a divorce because it taught her that I am still just as dishonest and horrible as I have ever been (my main LB was Dishonesty - still trying to get rid of that.).

I'm really angry about the way she is approaching that because she knows that I am working on that particular LB, because I told her some time ago that I realized that was the main one and also one of her primary ENs - and she knows she can get to me that way.

Apparently, she is angry because I 'snooped' into her email by bypassing her logon password (I'm a computer geek, for cryin' out loud!) and printed out her love letters. And then I had the GALL not to confront her immediately with what I found and instead waited about a week.

I know she is just clouding the issue, but she knows which buttons to push! I told her I didn't want to fight, that I was signing off IM, and I shut it off. I hope that was the right thing.

She really knows how to fight dirty. As for the kids: how am I going to be able to keep them if she moves out? She has access to a lot better legal support than I do....I'm really scared about that.

David

David,

Send a copy of her emails to her parents. This is called disclosure and it is part of plan A. Further, you can find legal assistance, so go get it with regard to your children. If you have to use some of the money you would have given her for tuition to do it. You don't owe her a free ride, and your children are a heck of a lot more important than her law degree which she can get any time.

Time to muscle up. She wants a fight? Give her one, but make it in a way that she doesn't know how to handle. Read about plan A again, and kill her with kindness while protecting your children anyway you can. She is playing a game, and from the sounds of it she will make a good lawyer. A lot of bluster, a lot of side stepping the issues, a lot of shall we say "compromising" the truth <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> , and a lot of bluffing. Don't play the game.

Do what you say you are going to do. Do what you can do. And protect your kids from being split up. She has problems and she is not facing them. You keep facing yours and make sure you protect your kids and yourself.

God Bless,

JL

Dont let them go. See a lawyer and draw up emergency custody paperwork. Document EVERYTHING!! Everyday. Everything she does and says. Everything you do for the kids.

You have equal right to them...so do not let her leave with them. Leaving is desertion. She doesnt get to desert AND take the kids with her. Especially with OM involved.

Dont worry about what she is saying...it is almost all babble. Just keep Plan Aing as long as you can. She really is running out of wiggle room in avoiding the truth. Hopefully, her parents will not enable her.

Anyway, just stick to the plan and protect those kids. See an attorney tomorrow and draft the paperwork and keep it ready. Do not file unless you see she is heading out the door. Then you call the attorney and have him file immediately...and you hold onto those kids. She is not a good mother right now. You protect them.

In His arms.

Hi again -

I just did something else that I hope was the right thing. Since I know my wife is going over to her parents to tell them about her affair and how bad I am, I called them up just to let them know she was coming, and asked them to remembe that there's two sides to every story.

Her parents have always been very very close friends, and they both love me very much, and her dad has a way of talking sense into my W sometimes 'way off track' mind. I didn't tell them why she was coming over, only that she had something that was kind of upsetting to tell them, and that I loved her very much and am trying to do the right thing for her and our family. I did say that she is coming over to tell them that she wants a divorce, which is somtething they really hate (they are both in their second marriage), and that I love Cheryl and am trying to save our marriage.

Was that part of the LB dishonesty? I didn't tell my wife I was calling - she asked me not to tell them about the affair - and I didn't...so I feel like it was the right thing....

David

Took me a while to find my post - guess I've worn out my welcome with my whining...heh heh.

Here's something that could be good, but I am taking with at least three grains of salt. All day today my wife kept trying to engage me in some sort of discussion about finding an MC who would prepare the kids for divorce. At every time, I told her that my goal was to save our marriage, and that if she wanted to end it she could do it by herself, I would not stand in her way, nor would I help.

At two separate times I cut off conversation, sayting that either I had no intention of fighting, or the hurt was too much for me to continue, and I left her alone after that (both times on IM). I just signed off immediately and left it at that.

When she got home tonght, she came back to the room and tried to engage me in conversaton about finding an MC that would help our kids prepare for divorcde. I told her I woudl not stand in her way but I woul not raise a finger to help her destroy our family.

all of the sudden she changed her mind and told me that she could make no promises, but that she wanted a third party to help us discuss the matter and that she would be willing to try. She said she has cut off al communication with the OM and wants me to pick out the MC - and not only that, but she will also complete the EN questionaires on the website.

IS THIS STILL FOG? IS SHE STILL TRYING TO MISLEAD ME??? How do I tell?

David

Hi David,

Not sure what you meant about your post.I will say that this board flies so, many times if you make a post you could come back later to find it on another page because so many people are here posting responses.It's normal.

Anyway,yes,your WW is still acting suspicioulsy like all WS's do so watch her actions.You know the ole MB saying: "Actions speak louder than words".We have all heard these supposed "truths" from our WS's before but they hardly ever are followed through with.So,in that respect,I would be very hesitant to believe your WW about contact ending(where's the proof?) and that she wants to go to MC with you.Based on what you mentioned it sounds more like she wants to know how to soften the blow to you and the issue of D.

So,tread with caution ok? Having been through 2 major false recoveries and several other partial attempts or what seemed to be attempts myself,I would look at it as guilty until proven innocent.Your WW has to prove to you she is serious about MC and that it is for Marriage Building too;that she has truly given up OM and will send a NC letter;that she will really take the time to enagage in the questionnaires and implement them and give you all passwords and cell phone records,etc so you can see that way that she was not in contact.It's a tall order and I just have this feeling she is trying to throw you a small bone so she can say "See,I tried".I don't know,just watch what she does and still continue to snoop.IMO,she changed gears way too fast so beware.

O