Lemon-

I'm jaded...I'm not trying to act like I'm not, and at this point in the game I blame them both, but I love him, and I hate her....so it throws the scale off balance.

Someone mentioned my anger management....yeah, only been going 3 days....I think it may take a little longer. I told the psychiatrist yesterday when he asked if I was a threat to myself or anyone else, I have been lying when asked that question for MONTHS, yesterday I answered truthfully. I said "Am I a danger to myself, NO, I no longer feel like I want to kill myself, am I a danger to others ABSOLUTELY. I have to avoid the OW at all costs, because I feel hate for her, which is a word I don't like to use when referring to a person, I honestly wouldn't care if she got hit by a bus tommorrow, and hell if I was at the bus stop, I may push her in front of it!" I also said "I've been eating **** for so damn long and saying it tastes good, that I finally reached the point that I can't take it anymore"

I'm broken, I KNOW this. He said "Did you have a Plan?" I said "No, and let me tell you why I had no plan. I work in the trauma unit at XXXXX hospital, and I've seen the failed attempts. It's amazing how damn hard it is to kill yourself, you'd think it'd be easy, but you have to do it just right, or you just end up maming(Sp?) yourself....so no, couldn't decide HOW to do it, just knew death would be easier to accept than the pain" He said "You don't know how many people I've tried to explain that to, and they don't believe me, that it's really rather hard to kill yourself" I said "Well I believe you, I've seen it"

So, HELL yes I blame that stupid skank, I blame her for being ALIVE......is that wrong? LMAO

I'm not saying that if it wasn't her, there wouldn't have been someone else....but I am saying that SHE KNEW he was married....and that demonstrates a moral deficit. HE KNEW he was married too....and that makes him an un****ingbelievable *******.

People in affairs are morally deficient....and it ****** me off.....who do they think they are to go around messing with the lives of their families and others....it's complete ****.

I am not at the point where I feel all forgiving towards the stupid stupid stupid (did I mention stupid) skank.....I don't know that I'll ever be.

I do think I'll get my husband back too, and I don't really think I'll let him blame it all on her.....she's pretty little, I don't think she overpowered and raped him.

*sigh* That's my story, and I'm sticking to it LMAO

-Caren

<small>[ January 21, 2005, 10:02 AM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

Lemon-

Hey....also, I totally respect your opinion...I know that you know what you're talking about, and I pray that someday I'll be there, to a place where I can rationally place the blame where it should be placed.

I don't feel you need to be softer in your approach, but I'm pretty tough and can take the tough critcism. I know I'm wrong to feel the way I do, hence the struggle I'm having, knowing on an intellectual level that I should feel one way about this, but on an emotional level being one p.o.ed crazy *****.....I'm fully aware that I am BROADZILLA right now, and I don't like it....all I can say is, I have to work through it, instead of trying to get around it like I have been.

-Caren

<small>[ January 21, 2005, 10:04 AM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

I agree with GC, I blame them both 100%.

So what if OM is a reprehensable serial womanising scumbag, my W had to want to have an A with him didn't she ?

Squid is 100% responsible for my hurt though. OM couldn't give a sh1t about me.

good question.

Ps I want OM dead though. Just felt the need to keep up my 100% record there <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

LMAO Bob....thank you so much, I'm glad I'm not the only one. It doesn't make it right, but it makes me feel less alone <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

*sigh* posting here always makes me feel better.

The few times that I've acted on a negative emotion and not posted here have been UGLY....so I've decided I have to first PRAY about what I'm thinking about doing and second get my butt on here and post...so the sane people can tell me I'm being a crazy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

-Caren

Lemonman:

What point does this serve with regards to "marriagebuilding"? As star has pointed out---blame is pointless in rebuilding a marriage. Doesn't help. Pepper has illustrated that there's a path and timeline to healing---not everyone (especially those that are dealing with active affair) want to "blame their spouses". Counterproductive to restoring a marriage.

As far as marriages go---yours was a failure. You didn't marriagebuild. You dealt with this by your guts and instincts---and the end result is that you are divorced. But you're around here to offer a "counter" viewpoint. To what---failure? I'm sure you would feel it unethical if I started to give appendectomy lessons to med students by making an incision through the skull and working my way down? Hey---it's an alternative viewpoint---so what if I lose the patient?

I didn't read every reply on this post, so I may be repeating some ideas - maybe not.

Similar to GC with a twist: I assign responsibility for my XW's decision to seek comfort outside of our marriage 100% on her and I assign both her and OM each 100% of the decision to continue the affair.

LM, I'd be interested to see if you can defend your "OP is 0% to blame logic" here.

Keep in mind that my wife was reeling from the death of our 8 year old son after a 5 1/2 year battle with cancer including 2 bone marrow transplants. OM and his family were our biggest supporters - they lived 4 doors away and our children were each other's best friends. They lived, breathed, laughed and cried with us as we struggled through the chills and thrills of dealing with a life threatening disease in a small child. My son got OM's blood on several occasions during his treatment. He and I became very close friends and routinely and soundly beat his son and his high school buddies in driveway basketball. When my son died, OM and his son were obvious choices to be pall bearers.

Afterwards, my wife sought comfort any where she could find it. Enter OM - any port in a storm. He knew very well what was happening. He could have easily suggested to my wife to seek REAL help. He could have alerted me, his friend, of what was happening so that I could get her the real help she needed. But instead he leaped at the chance to allow his ego to get stroked. He unceremoniuosly abandoned his family and helped to wreck mine. I had two beautiful sons and now I have 1/2 of one. He knew dern well what he was doing.

So, I assign him 100% of the responsibility for allowing the affair to take root and 100% of the responsibility for allowing it to continue to the point of destroying two families, already tragically wrought by the death of a child.

Please, please, please make your argument that he is not responsible whatsoever.

Go ahead. Make my day.

My FWW allowed the intruder to come into our marriage and for this she was 100% guilty. When she graciously tried to end the affair with the OM, he became a very aggressive in his pursuit to keep her. He fought hard to the very end and even showed up in the parking lot of our MC to attempt to disrupt our quest to repair our marriage.

He has zero morals.

I blame my WH and OW both 100%. Ow found out he was married and continued the affair. She could have stopped it then. I think both of them are responsible for what happened. If the OW would have left when she found out my WH was married I may be working on recovery....instead I'm heading for divorce. Neither one of them have any decency or integrity!

I blame both and am trying to get over this deceit, the FOG has envloped him my WH. He thinks she is miss wonderful the *****. After last night I am ready to call her and say you can have him. I am tired of fighting for him -two years in the dark -but I knw in my heat. Now he is trying to say it only went on for a few short months. What a liar he is and she is as well. He admits yesterday HOW SORRY HIS WAS And realizes how deceitful it was then defends her. They were borth married - question is Do I really want to me married to this type of person?? Hell NO. So why am I still here?? Still dazed and confused. Sometimes I think he really loves me then other days all I think is of course he doesn't want a D. He would loose his house and have to pay alimony. This way he can have his cake. Crzy woman here and feeling so many different things I'm like a grenade ready to go off at times. Not good for myself or anyone else. Yeah I blame both they are both adults...

<small>[ January 21, 2005, 10:07 AM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

LM:

I have BS'd quite a bit regarding who is to blame, but now I have come up with some numbers.

Regarding OM:

The chances of OM landing a woman like my wife are one in a trillion. So I cannot blame OM for taking advantage of the situation. 0%

That leaves 100% for someone else. If I assign that blame to my wife I would be shooting myself in the foot. Because I then have to convince myself that I want her despite 100% of blame.

I believe there must have been a serious flaw in the marriage and to this point I am not sure what it was. I do know affairs can occur in good marriages, but there must have been something else. In any event now I have to decide who gets the majority of the blame-------- my wife or me.

Or perhaps there is no one to blame. We tend to forget that as humans we are wired for variety. How could we blame our own human condition? After all there must be an evolution benefit for spreading the seed as far as possible.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Stan-ley:
<strong>Regarding OM:

The chances of OM landing a woman like my wife are one in a trillion. So I cannot blame OM for taking advantage of the situation. 0%</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yo Stanley - What are your chances of becoming a billionaire?

Where's your closest bank? They might not have a full billion, but you may as well get started knocking them off.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

WAT

I think that the reason the the OM/OW is so despised, is that the betrayed spouse didn't DO anything directly to him/her.

Whatever responsiblity the betrayed spouse had in contributing to the problems in the marriage are not justifications for the OP to DESTROY another person's life. Someone he/she doesn't even really know. All they know is the bullsh*t that the cheating spouse told them.

See, I'm a nice person. I'm helpful in my day-to-day. I'm kind and I'm generous. And I rarely hold grudges. But the skank that my husband was fooling around with on the internet didn't know anything like that about me. She was talking to an unhappy man who was fixated on my faults. She was taking a shot at me without knowing who I really am. Why? It could only be because of her cheap-*** sense of entitlement. Afterall, she's "in love"!

I hate her for that. And yet, I don't hate my husband because some of his issues in the marriage were legitimate. He had a personal gripe with me. She didn't.

I think there's an assumption that everyone ought to be civilized when infidelity comes into play. And that it's the cheating spouse's fault entirely because they are the ones that took the vows.

All I know is that if the above-mentioned 'skank' had actually touched any part of my husband's body, I would have spent ALL of my time making certain that her life was made just as miserable as mine.

I think there ought to be legal repercussions regarding the OP. You can't go into the business community and ruin a person's livelyhood just because they had something that you wanted. Why is it okay to ruin a person's familial security?

Part of the frustration of the BS, is that they have so little recourse. We should address that more fully in our civil law.

<small>[ January 21, 2005, 10:08 AM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have to avoid the OW at all costs, because I feel hate for her, which is a word I don't like to use when referring to a person, I honestly wouldn't care if she got hit by a bus tommorrow, and hell if I was at the bus stop, I may push her in front of it!" </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">CAREN:

These are my exact feelings. It sounds like you are quoting me. I know it is not the right way to think but this is also my current POV. I keep reading the paper, waiting to read that something has happened to her.

I also like the new word, SKANK(?) that I have learned here. SO APPROPRIATE!!!!

I haven't posted in awhile , just came to check in this caught my eye ..

This sounds more like a TOW thread to a degree about the OP not OWEING anything to the BS . LOL

Mixing words IMO Blame Responsiblity BLAH BLAH BLAH !

OP is a low life in nice words . Yes of course WS took the vows and ultimately dipped in tothe pool of gross human act .

BUT I am responding more on the pg 1

FORGOT the posters name about "aleination of affection "

I do not see why anyone would think this is wrong , if the state has this law (witch I think all should ) then a BS should do it .
When a clerk at a store is SHOT , the family wants the death penelty (if in the state )

BUT the shooter did not owe them anything ? they didn't know the family so what is the probblem that they took the person they love away ?

That person was a stranger .


MY point is yes the WS went for it, 50% ,OP bit 50% ....IF we have to add to 100 !

You know if you read over at TOW they put blame on the BS all the time saying if the BS could KEEP WS happy they wouldn't be here !

BULL !!!! IF the WS tried to approach it differently then there may have been no A ,,, but once involved OP CHOOSES to decieve and hide and keep the A alive there is the BLAME !

Tell the WS to get a D and come back when its finnal , no they don't do that they push and prosue and manipulate , they separate the 2 relationships and get more angree that the BS still wants the M ,, they fight harder for something they NO is distructive ..and hurtful !

not here to change anyone Opion thats why it is an opoin ,,, but I will say it does turn my stomach that some can think that the OP has no BLAME ..

I am not saying that you don't need to get past some of it for a healthy recovery , but you can recover while still knowing the OP had BLAME !

JMO .3

I haven't posted in awhile , just came to check in this caught my eye ..

This sounds more like a TOW thread to a degree about the OP not OWEING anything to the BS . LOL

Mixing words IMO Blame Responsiblity BLAH BLAH BLAH !

OP is a low life in nice words . Yes of course WS took the vows and ultimately dipped in tothe pool of gross human act .

BUT I am responding more on the pg 1

FORGOT the posters name about "aleination of affection "

I do not see why anyone would think this is wrong , if the state has this law (witch I think all should ) then a BS should do it .
When a clerk at a store is SHOT , the family wants the death penelty (if in the state )

BUT the shooter did not owe them anything ? they didn't know the family so what is the probblem that they took the person they love away ?

That person was a stranger .


MY point is yes the WS went for it, 50% ,OP bit 50% ....IF we have to add to 100 !

You know if you read over at TOW they put blame on the BS all the time saying if the BS could KEEP WS happy they wouldn't be here !

BULL !!!! IF the WS tried to approach it differently then there may have been no A ,,, but once involved OP CHOOSES to decieve and hide and keep the A alive there is the BLAME !

Tell the WS to get a D and come back when its finnal , no they don't do that they push and prosue and manipulate , they separate the 2 relationships and get more angree that the BS still wants the M ,, they fight harder for something they NO is distructive ..and hurtful !

not here to change anyone Opion thats why it is an opoin ,,, but I will say it does turn my stomach that some can think that the OP has no BLAME ..

I am not saying that you don't need to get past some of it for a healthy recovery , but you can recover while still knowing the OP had BLAME !

JMO .3

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I think there ought to be legal repercussions regarding the OP. You can't go into the business community and ruin a person's livelyhood just because they had something that you wanted. Why is it okay to ruin a person's familial security?
Part of the frustration of the BS, is that they have so little recourse. We should address that more fully in our civil law. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good point!

One would think OP should be liable if they bring HIV or something else (hepatitis C) fatal to the marriage. In this instance the betrayed spouse was completely blindfolded as the OP introduces this sort of stuff into the marriage. I would say there is some blame in this instance!

LadyJane14 --- that said it well.

Lemonman -- I think you are saying that it doesn't matter how rotten the OP are, because they would not be OP if the WS hadn't allowed them to become OP, and therefore we should not blame the OP. Right?

***Originally posted by lemonman:
... the OP OWES US and our marriage NOTHING....***

I do, however, disagree with you on this. My husband's two most long-lasting OP (that I know of) most certainly DID owe me the respect that any human being owes another. I did not ever deserve to be lied to and insulted and publicly humiliated by these people.

They owed my marriage the respect that everyone *claims* to have for marriage (G. Bush and the conservative right, anyone?)

Sorry. They DID owe me and my marriage that respect. They DID owe me that same respect as a human being. They DID owe me something.

I blame the OP 100% for being opportunistic thieves.

I blame my WH 100% for holding the door open for them.

If my next-door neighbor forgets to lock his car one night, that does not make it okay for me to take it for a joy ride just because "I didn't make any promises to him and I owe him nothing."

People owe each other respect as human beings. Marriage as an institution is owed respect in itself. OP and WS totally ignore this. That's why BOTH are to blame.
Mulan

WS Fogese:
"It's not MY fault. The devil made me do it! No, the OP made me do it...yeah, that's it. The OP made me do it.

Wait! If I can convince my BS to believe that they are 50% responsible because they did not meet my ENs and that the OP is 50% responsible for 'making me do it' then I'm 100% off the hook for my own choices and actions." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

BS Fogese:
"Yeah! What WS said. I think..." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

This may be repetitive alos, but:

Obviously, both my wife and the OM are 10000000 percent responsible for the choice they made.

But, LM, I think there is a point that you are missing: some people have integrity, and some don't.

What I mean is this: my wife never should have been talking to this guy about problems in OUR marriage. But..just because she chose to do so doesn't mean that an affair was inevitable. The guy could have simply refused to talk to her. Or..he could have told ME that she was talking to him. He didn't. Insted, he saw a vulnerable woman, and he took advantrage of that vulnerability.

That doesn't excuse my wife or justify what she did in any way. It does, unfortunately, highlight a sad fact of human nature.