Ya' know, I read somewhere to say sex in your title and call out a few names to get more responses, so this is really not about sex, sorry.

I don't know if many here know my story, but it is too long to post again and I am not sure how to link it.

My H and I have separated, as of Sat. nite. Actually, I made him leave. I am not happy about this, I want my M to work. I simply will NOT do it all (emotionally) myself anymore. I will NOT continue in this relationship while my needs are being sorely neglected LONGterm, esp. with no real effort or plan to fix things. I HAVE tried. I am not perfect, I 'm sure not even close. I can be demanding. I do not believe that wanting honesty and openness is too much to ask. I don't believe that wanting more than, at most, 2-3 hours a week of alone time. Our kids are 14 and 7, we can work that out if WE want to. But i also do not want a divorce.

My H has lied to me about many things, large and small, since D?-day, almost 2 years ago. I now know that he was lying to me about that day and since then about who he was talking to on my digital tape recorder. In the last two weeks, a valuable source became available to me. I won't reveal it, H knows that I post here and he might now begin to show an interest in MB, who knows. I don't know if H is still in EA. I did, however find out about alot of his actions while he is at work.
I have always "accused" H of being a martyr type and manipulative, that is one of our problems when we "fight". LB, maybe, but that is how i feel. Well, it sure seems to be true, now I know. My H and I had a big argument in the last few weeks. Whenever we have a big fight, he gets a severe stomachache (sp?) and just real sick, sometimes for days. Last week, he was sick after our fight, went to work, flirted with women and joked around alot, came home and said he was still sick and depressed and had a horrible day at work. He did not know that I found out how he was acting at work. H continued to lie to me about who he talks to and how he acts at work all week, and the week before this. I have been trying to gently (and sometimes not-so-gently) push him to tell me about his work and relationships there for years, much longer than before d-day. I have only met a few of his coworkers years ago, and they have changed since. H doesn't usually want to go to work fuctions, and when I have pushed about this, conflicting schedules (mostly kid's stuff) have come up. H works in research, I cannot visit there (supposedly). When i worked in research, we could have visitors signed in. I believe him about this, for the most part.
Anyway, H has been lying to me about almost everything (at work), for the last few weeks, since this resource became available. Who knows about before. He has lied about a few other big things since d-day, not recently that I know of. H does go to work, he just interacts alot more and differently than he has led me to believe. ALOT more. He flirts alot- H told me that he talks to NOBODY, esp. women, unless it is about work, or just to be polite and say Hi... Not too long ago, he adamantly told me that they DO NOT joke around at work. It is NOT a bar, he said, in a rather demeaning manner! (I work in a bar part-time). These are not huge probs, just the fact that he lies. I already do NOT trust him.
On Thurs. nite, after listening to his boring accounts of work, and knowing that he was leaving ALOT out and even lying in response to some of my questions, I asked him to write down things while he was at work. He was VERY defensive, but agreed. He conveniently forgot to write down one of the last few people that he talked to that day, a woman. Not an OP, but he did tell her she was sooo pretty.

I am very tired and depressed. Knowing that my H would go to work and be happy (or at least act happy), and then come home and be very down and tired and crabby, was very depressing. A few months ago, my daughter's friend commented on how he never smiles. She is right, he is seldom "up", at least around us. I have tried to talk to him about this and tease him into smiling. He drags us all down here, often. He is best with his S7, but S has only asked about Dad once, yesterday at 730 am when S woke me up. I told him that Dad was at Granparents helping out for hte day. S7 did not ask again where was Dad. To me, that says something about my H and his interaction with his family. Hmm, maybe a DJ.

Well, i could go on and on here, but it is getting way too long. There is so much more about me and my probs, him and his...I know that I have probs too. I have been working on what i know for a long time.H does not tell me his Ens or anything else much, for that matter. What I know about his ENs I found out by spying on him. He lied to our MC years ago, about his resentfulness. I brought up in MC, that I thought he was resentful about certain things, but he would deny it when i asked him, only to make sarcastic comments about these same things later and then say he didn't mean it. At that point,he told the MC that I was just being over-sensitive and then he brought up my treatment for severe depression (before I met him). I walked out of MC that day crying and telling him that our M would end some day, if he could not even be honest to MC. About 1 1/2-2 yrs later, these were some of the same things that he was tearing me apart for in his car when i taped him. These are things that i tried to change for the better after MC, and then even after that. I have no idea where I stand right now on those issues.

Still much more, will add later- also about my part in this. Right now, I am just confused about the next step. What do i do now? I miss him, but not like before. I am not "mad' and will get over it this time. I am very lost though. And confused.

HELP,
jls

JLS, your sit is miles beyond my personal experience. Its very dangerous to advise outside experience or training.

All I would say is that it sounds like something is keeping your H from playing his part in your marriage. That could be an affair, another distraction, or the fact that he just doesn't want to.

The most recent relationship dynamics bok I read was 'love Must Be Tough' by Dobson.

It seems to descrobe situations like yours where one partner takes the lions share of wanting to progress their marriage and the other doesn't.

I can only suggest reading it and getting individual pro-marriage MC from Steve Harley or Penny Tupy.

You need a plan JLS. My advise is to always invest in YOU. you will always have YOU even if others let you down. So be good to YOU.

Other more experienced or trained folks than me will have more than me to offer you. Others have rescued marriages from more ruinous sits than you describe have hope !

Bob,
Thanks for your reply. Not very hopeful though. I will get the book soon.

I'm not sure if something is distracting him, or he just doesn't want to do the work. I knew (thought) that something was distracting him 2 yrs ago, before d?-day. He was definitely different. But over time, before and after that, he has just become less "emotionally involved" in our life.

We are like room-mates and co-parents. We talk about chores and kids, at least 98% of the time. Then we argue about the relationship every time i bring up the fact that I would like to see some changes. i carry on any other conversation pretty much by myself, and that has been less and less lately.

I was reading another post where MelodyLane said that one should not badger one's H to work on the M. I have tried not to, but as time has past, and alot of it, I must admit to nagging. And becoming more and more resentful when he doesn't step up.

I must say, that with recent discovery, that I am not sure that my H had an affair at all. Maybe not even an EA, as I previously had thought. He talks to his coworkers all the time and feels some need to lie to me about it. Perhaps he was just talking to a friend and will not admit it, for the same "reasons".

Thanks tho Bob,
jls

JLS I know this is a mantra on her amongst recovered folks but you can only hope to change YOU !

You can change YOU in a way that may inspire or affect your H to change positively , but you cannot change him.

And a personal note - if only women knew how counterproductive nagging is they would never ever do it.

Even now, the post-plan A Bob will refuse to do something I'm nagged to do. Ask me and I'll do it or won't do it but DON'T NAG !!!

To her credit a previously nagging Squid has quit pretty much nagging now.. Thats good !

Bob,

In my defense, I really seldom nag. Is asking nicely nagging? Is asking 2X nicely nagging? With the disclaimer that I wasn't sure that i was heard the 1st time. Then telling somebody later that when you are ignored it hurts your feelings - is that nagging?

By nagging, I do mean pushing to have a conversation about something (ie my needs, our M, his lies)that has already been put off many times...

jlseagull,

I worked for a long time with severely retarded adults. The clients that I cared for were not able to communicate verbally. Not at all. Well, some of them could grunt. They could hear me, but couldn't respond except by exhibiting behaviors. It didn't take long to figure out that asking anything more than twice was considered a nag. My clients simply disregarded the request. Sometimes the request was put on permanent disregard in relation to the nagger.

When communicating with our beloved men-folk (and some women-folk) that are also, in a different way unable to communicate, I've learned that asking more than ONCE is nagging. He is using a behavior to communicate with you. Either he forgot, or he doesn't want to or he's busy or he has gas... the reasons go on and on... He might not have been ignoring your first request, but when you make the second request he's likely going to have a "disregard wire" switched in his brain.

Sally

JLS

Nagging in my terms is the quite deliberate use of annoying repetitive petition to get something done against my will.

The concept that you can annoy a man to do what you want against his will or motivation just by punishing him with constant annoyance and disturbance of his well earned peace is disrespectful IMO. Its effectoibve because most men will just give in and do it for a little peace, but it is counterproductive as the resentment it causes can be huge.

All women I know use this tactic and every man I know hates and despises this manipulation.

Why is is not OK for a man to say 'no' to some requests ?

What you describe as having a conversation about your needs, that is NOT nagging as you are not using repeat questioning to manipulate your H.

Try using POJA. Its working really well for us, I wish we'd discovered it years ago.

JLS,

Your H is at his best an Xws not an H.... not yet. He isn't treating you all properly because his loyalities are still divided. Whether his pants are divided also is unknown but it is sure coming out in his actions and words.

So I ask you if you feel safe living with such a character? Think about this and identify your boundaries. It will help you see where you really need to be.

L

Orchid,

That is exactly what I have told him. That I do not feel safe with him at all. And that hurts me. I even explained to him that when we were dating and earlier in our M, that it was safety that I felt when he held me. That it was an important feeling for me, as my father left my family and ME when I was young (divorce), among other things. No man has ever made me feel so safe and loved as my H, used to anyways.

I have been so torn about this, as I am worried to death about my children feeling safe. I am a strong advocate of staying M, if at all possible, if you have children. My daughter, esp., is going to have many issues about this. She is not his and already has a "father" that is not in her life. My H has been her "father" since she was ~5. But at the same time, she is old enuf to realize what is going on here, and I want her to have HEALTHY relationships. In the last few months, she told me that she would have divorced my H along time ago, when he and his family tried to trick me to sign papers about a "gift" of money from his grandmothers estate. She only knows these things because she is a nosy little 14yo, she eavesdrops relentlessly. Her comment about this, tho, made me think that perhaps trying to keep a status quo for the kids was perhaps not as healthy as I had thought.

More later. Essentially I am approaching a Plan B, I supppose. Better late than never?

jls