Feeling neglected here at MB. Doesn't anyone here like me? (yes SS and svb you DO count)

I know that I don't always post consistently and i tried to be an "Idiot" but I don't always have the time. But I read pretty darn thoroughly and just don't respond alot because of time restraints, no good answers and bad typing skills. Or is this like the gas stations in the "bad" locations which for some weird bermuda-triangle-like reason just don't get the traffic that the gas stations right next-door and across the road do?! IS it my name,my sappy signature, my questions, my online communication skills or have I just been unable to "break" into this "clique"? Doesn't anyone have any advice, questions or even dirty jokes for me?

I REALLY need some help with Plan A and B. Trying to do a Plan A right now, but failing somewhat(see other thread). Been very down, a little better today.

Very unsure of self, because H will not admit to any wrongdoing. He will not admit to talking to anyone (when I first taped him, almost 2 years ago), says that he was talking to himself. I waver on believing him, thinking that I am crazy & hearing things and yet "knowing" that his answers make no sense and I CAN (faintly but definitely) hear a womans voice in that recording.And it is NOT the radio, she calls him "888", a name that he only goes by at work. He has recently lied to me about many interactions with coworkers, esp. female. It scares me (but don't know if this is pertinant to my other sitch, except for the trust thing).

Can I go to Plan B with this less-than-confidant attitude? I know that I am very depressed and hurting more and more everytime H and I do interact for any period of time. Can only stay "up" around him for short periods, I am jsut so disappointed in him and his presumed "value" of our M.

Each step that i take that doesn't help, hurts more. Please, some advice??? PLEASE. HELP.

I am very confused and Lost, need help with trail marking. I started a plan b letter, but need to do a little more before posting it. In the meantime, I am faltering in everything that I do. Teary eyes don't help with my vision.

jls

Oh please. Don't think that. I needed a lot of help, too, and I found it was totally erratic who got a lot of traffic and who didn't.

There's a few things you can do to help: more, shorter posts are usually better than long ones. I find I'm more included to go to short threads rather than long sagas that need a lot of reading to catch up -- but that's me.

Also, some posts require specific expertise -- either about peculiar situations, legal advice, violence, etc. -- that not everyone has experience with.

I notice you don't hesitate to bump your own posts. Don't hesitate to bump your own posts. If you really want help, don't be afraid to ask. But a lot of the response-level is dependent on time of day, sunspots, and the direction of the wind.

JLS, no advice just {{{jls}}}

i will go read and see if i can help...brb

my first question is do you know why his first two marriages dissolved? is what you know from someone other than him?

is this a pattern that others have been through with him?

lets go back and figure that out....

Thanks so much you guys (genericly spoken). I am sorry, I am just in a po'po' me stage the last few days. I HATE being whiny (at first typing that came out "shiny" but that makes no sense, so much like the rest of my life - Waa, there I go again).

Sometimes this is my lifeline, my only clingings to "reality" (ironic, hmm). And then I feel like I am in high school. Why aren't my threads long like g.gs and cc's...why; I am asking that alot lately. I really do feel lost, and like ANYBODY, except me, must know SOMETHING.

Well, do ya'???

jls

Weelll nikko,

I don't know that much. His 2nd wife, I knew a little. She was an alcoholic, his words and others ( I work in a bar near where they lived). NO, there was NOTHING between him and I then. They were both nice to me whne my BF and his close friend got into very serious car accident. Long story, but years later we reconnected.

His first W left him and hurt him very much. That is his story, and that she wanted more than he could give, financially. They were young, in their 20s. Then his 2nd also couldn't have kids..one of the reasons I think he fell for me so hard and fast. I had my DD and was a very good single mom, going to college....

Oh, and he met his 2nd W at work and probably had A with her while she was still M, he was not. He told me that years ago and then recanted. Then others told me that also. That always bothered me some.

He really is not emotionally there much. I often wonder...but he is perfect in my moms eyes and his family's also.

BBL, have to take the cat for booster,
jls

ps. the animal thing really bothers me alot. Thats a hard POJA, and then he wavers on how significant it is to him. VERY to me!!!

Well...I do have to admit, you do sound whiny sometimes.

Think of this as Reality Time you are going through, in this part of your life. Your illusions about the way things are are getting smashed. Use all that energy to learn to see more clearly. That helps reduce the self-pity. If you hadn't had so many illusions, you wouldn't need so much disillusioning. At least, that's what I try to think in my own sitch.

The whininess is caused by wanting things that aren't true to be true. F'rinstance, trying to get WH to support the way you saw him, and act in the way you hoped he would, and always thought he was, rather than accepting what he actually is, right now. Act on what you see -- not what you want to be there. Try to be very clear-headed.

Somewhere someone had a post about moving from "effect" to "cause" -- good post if you can find it. Use all this to empower you, not weaken you.

What is wrong with this statement?

Do you see it...?

I am a pragmatic thinker. Here is how it works for me. Look for the lowest common denominator of the problem to help me define the base of the problem. Work from there to find a workable solution.

You seem to be unable to define the problem. Start there. Make the problem clear to yourself in as few words as possible. Be specific and be very clear ... you (nor I, nor anyone else) can find solutions when the problem remains undefined.

Pep

Hey jls,

I wasn't able to grasp what you mean by this -

"ps. the animal thing really bothers me alot. Thats a hard POJA, and then he wavers on how significant it is to him. VERY to me!!! "

What animal thing are you talking about??? Blessings to you!

Pep,
I hate to admit this, but you lost me. I think ("know") that H had at least one inappropriate conersation with a female(?). The conversation itself was demeaning to me and our M, even if he was talking to "self", as he claims (and I do not believe). I will link or retype the Parts of the conversation that are clear and relevant later, it is time consuming. H adamently denies that he was talking to anyone and even denies things that he said or has never been able to explain why he was saying these things.

CSue,
The animals are his, mine and the kids- but my "thing". We have 6 horses (1 mine, 2 D14s, 1 S7s, 1 Hs, 1 mini, kinda still S7s and 1 "we" are trying to sell). And 1 boarder, she cleans stalls for me 3X a week. We have 3 dogs, 3 cats, 1 pygmy goat, 2 chickens, 1 fish and 1 swimming turtle, and 2 guinea hens. I could go into more of how we obtained all of these, but he would say that it is mostly me (sorta' true, 'cause I don't mind it and don't say no too much to HIM or the kids). Actually I do now, because almost all of the animal caretaking falls to me - although I like it mostly, I get resentful of not enuf help (not usually tho), and crazy about everyone elses resentfulness about me taking the TIME to take care of all of these pets (of which they are not all mine).

This "animal" thing was one of the major probs that he spoke of (LBing bigtime) on the recording, after he had told me on numerous occasions that it was fine and did NOT bother him at all! I had known that it was timeconsuming in the few weeks before I recorded him, he was acting angry and distant, and I was asking him if that was a prob or what was the prob, in a very nice way, I might add -I just did. He was telling me that he loved his little "farmgirl" and I was reading too much into everything and ALL WAS FINE. HA

will write more later, have to pick up S7,

jls

Please don't feel like there are clicks here. I have over 8,000 posts, and lots of time, I posted to myself.

It seems like you have been putting up with the uncertainty of all of this for two long. Have you done a rock solid Plan A? Does your WH have periods of time where he is unaccounted for?

Is he willing to meet your EN's? Do you meet his?

Do you spend 15 hours a week doing fun things together?

Hang in there, we'll figure this out.

YOU said:


I said:


here is what I think is wrong ... you are unsure about yourself ... and this (you say) is because your husband will not admit to wrongdoing ....

And what if he does not ever EVER EVER admit his wrong doing? Do you remain unsure of yourself, awaiting something he says or does?

This is a major mistake in my mind.

Feeling sure of yourself probably has nothing to do with whatever he admits or denies.

You may be unsure about certain things about him and some of his secretive activities, but this should be no reason for you to have doubts about yourself. This is an example borrowed functioning, and it is a bad pit to fall into.

You think you cannot be sure of yourself unless he verifies you? Are you waiting for him to become a better man so you can be sure of yourself?

I think this is putting things in the wrong order, if you ask me.

START being sure of yourself inspite of of his inability to be honest with you.

Be uncertain of him and certain about you.


Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hunny, what he told you is not true and you know it ... so don't buy into this.

Make your decisions on what you know is correct and not on whatever nonsense he tries to feed you.

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

That is alot of it believer! He also has lied to me recently and then denied it, about mostly innocent yet flirtatious interactions with female coworkers.

I bought the books when I found this site (I think Aug or fall of 2003) , among other books. I "made" him read them with me and tried to do some of the work. We did the EN questionare back then also. The only EN that I don't meet sufficiently (that he would admit, and I kinda forced it out of him) was SF. Tried to fix that , but very hard when don't trust!! And when he seems to have NO interest in meetin my ENs, which I have been honest about for years. O and H, Conversation...these are probably my top 2!!! Sometimes it is hard to say, when you want most what you are not getting and take the rest for granted. We both do that, I know.

I did a pretty good Plan A, off and on through the last 2 years, but recently we separated because I am jsut TOO miserable(and the lying about coworkers thing). I am pretty sure that he really loves me again- I am sorry that it is not enuf, when we cannot address the issues and keep this from happening again (whatever "this" is).

I have really tried to improve myself- Honestly I have- and think that I have done pretty good. The house is cleaner. My DD gets horses in at nite now. She was going to a private school 45 min away and working after school to help pay the tuition back then. She would leave at 720 am and get home at 530-600 pm. H would take her, I would pick her up, with S (2-5 yrs) at that time - she went for 3 1/2 years. She had plenty to do, for a 8-12 year old child. We had 4-5 horse then, she rode alot. I did all the work (except for feeding in the morning). I did not get home from picking her up until 530-600 pm, therefore dinner wasn't always ready and horse might still need to be brought in. Remember, my S was 2 or so, he would have to go to barn with me or I would do it when he was napping. It was much better when he started K, and even pre-K for 3 days a week, 3 hours those days.

I knew that H might be bothered, especially in spring when horses stay out later and I would be starting dinner or not to it yet, getting horses in... when he got home. This all happened Spring of 2003. I had asked him if it bothered him (he was XTREMELY MOODY) at this time and apologized to him (before he complained, he actually never complained) that things were so hectic. Like I said, according to H, things wer great, he SAID, but was acting very weird. That is why I taped him. He helped out at nite with dinner, kids and did a lot of laundry in morn and nite, back then. Now i do most of laundry and things are much more organized with kids, MOST of the time. I AM RESENTFUL NOW!!! He had complained about having to do too much work outside before all this, so I had been doing most of mowing, weedwhacking... I have always worked very hard at home, my house is not filthy by any means (esp. with kids,cats,dogs in/out), and participate in kids life ALOT!!! Also balance checkbook (he pays bills), and keep up with alot of paperwork (whenI can) around house. Cluttered sometimes, but not bad at all.

Next post will re-account recording ,sorry for all the background again. And venting and such.

By the way, A.M., by nature I really an not a whiny person (I recently had one of the 2-3 best compliments of my life- "If you don't like jls, you don't like life"). But you ARE RIGHT: GROW, BE STRONG, RUN FREE- as one of my best gf's likes to say to her kids- is a good one for me to remind myself of.

jls

Oh, I have begged, pleaded and cajoled, yet H will NOT spend anywhere near 15 hours a week with me. And when we do spend time together he is quiet and sullen alot. i don't even want 15 hourse with THAT recently. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

So jls,

Has your husband had an affair, and you're wondering if it's really over?

Sounds like you suspicious of his flirty behavior with other women; am I right?

And counseling....have you been in counseling, either individually or MC?

Guess what I'm trying to get to is understanding the problem vs the symptoms. By the way you describe his behavior something isn't right....and it sounds like you're not happy in your marriage either.

This is what I mean. Whether or not it is in your nature -- this is whining.

You say he "really" loves you -- yet the reality doesn't seem to show it, unless there is something you're not saying.

This is the reality of the man -- after all the begging, pleading, and cajoling. This is what he is.

Suppose that this is all there is in the box? This is your future.

What would you do? Would this be good enough for you? You've sung, you've danced, you've bought the negligees from Victoria's Secret -- still no change, and apparently no honesty. The illusion might be that you keep hoping the next trick you do will effect a change -- and you keep getting disappointed, and begging, pleading, and cajoling again.

One idea: suppose you just pretend you are single (except for dating), and plan your life, hobbies, friendships without regard to him. Get a head start on the rest of your life. Another idea: Plan B, saying regardless of what he says he is doing, you are unhappy and have decided to proceed with your life without him. Let's explore a few other options besides hoping he will change.

This may not be what you want; it may be what you are stuck with. But this was my point: what is reality telling you? Act on that, and not on what you wish him to become.

Pepperband (where did you come up with this name anyway?),



Do you ever get tired of being told you are right, or of being right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

That is close to being what I recently told my best gf. I let him make me feel uncertain about this and other things. That is why I think that I must go to Plan B soon. The more that he is not around, the more i feel confident (at least sometimes <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> ). And the more that he denies things and goes back to recant a story AGAIN, the more that I become hurt and ANGRY and lose respect & love for him!!



I don't know what happened to ME! I used to be fairly confident. Of course, the suspected A doesn't help. I have a bad history of this in past Rs and my dear ol' dad did this to my mom for years. And she took the blame, she told me once that she had fallen out of love with him, maybe never had loved him the "right" way and shouldn't had Md him and he knew this on some level. She was actually glad at times that he wasn't coming to her for SF. Oh my dear dysfunctional famiy. Maybe I am just as messed up as them after all. I tried so hard to work thru all of that in my 20s, major depression for years, usually R related, abandomment issues.... A.M., I WAS whiny then for awhile. Then I had my DD and "thought" that I had put it all in perspective. HA. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

And A.M., you too, you are right too. That is one of the things that I keep asking myself. Is this what I want? I feel like I have a shell of a M, no emotional depth, not mearly enuf honesty. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> And I have bought the not-exactly-victoria -secrets, but youknow. yes it helps his SF, but I keep thinking what about me. I try so hard and thenmy taker comes out and boy-howdy does it come out sometimes. Begging and cajoling, maybe, but sometimes demanding and swinging, I am ashamed to admit.

Back again later, moving horses out to pasture (have to wean them onto the heavy grass in the spring). Oh I still love the seasons and sthe animals, pain as it all can be. Same as my kids, well notasmuch(pain/kids yes, love kids more, yes) tho-for sure.

jls

Well, we all do some of this stuff. Certainly I have.

But it's pretty clear he's content with the status quo. You are not. Since he's rock-hard and adamant about not changing a thing -- this puts you in the position of dancing, self-questioning, begging, IC, and pulling at him (which exhausts you and irritates him). You will try anything to get him to change. (Jeez, this sounds so familiar! I guess I did some of this long ago...)

In my opinion, it's time to leave him alone and figure out what you want in your life, and how much you're willing to pay for it. If you absolutely determined to keep your marriage, maybe you do just want to lead a separate life for awhile, rediscover that cheerful, outgoing person you say you were. Be pleasant when you see him, come back by bedtime -- but have your good times elsewhere. Take up sky diving. Have lunch/dinner with friends. Entertain separately. Maybe that will force him to a decision -- maybe it will eventually force you to a different one.

But YOU take charge of your life, and let him stew in his own weird mess.

Hi there AM martin ! >waving< I like your post.

"Pepperband" is a reference to my favorite Beatles album (1967). Sort of my coming of age album.

JLS .... your focus is away from yourself, and you have lost control of your center. Re-focus on yourself, just as AM Martin suggested, and get yourself whole .... stop fighting with your H ... it does no good and just wears the heck out of you... give him no reason to defend himself .... just keep to your own agenda .... for now. When you feel stronger, you will be ready to take a stand.

Pep