I cannot speak for any man but myself, but here's my take...

1. You're not being forward if he's already issued an invitation. "You know, we could do this again sometime, if you want" seems exactly like such an invitation, and your suggestion of attending the wedding together is a response to it.

2. Even if you were being forward, who cares? Directness is good; emotion-guessing games are bad.

3. I would feel different about being invited to accompany someone to the wedding of a friend versus the wedding of a stranger. In the former case I would feel like I was being included in a group event, while in the latter case I would feel more like an intruder. I would not be comfortable in that latter situation unless I was in more than a casual relationship with my "date."

My recommendation here is to pick up the phone (don't email), call him early evening (just leave him a simple message asking him to call you if he's not there), and ask him.

Well, once again I want to thank you all for the wonderful advice...

I thought about this a lot and decided that maybe I was putting too much stress on myself about asking him to this wedding. I realized that he would know 3, perhaps 4 people there. Two of those people would be at the head table and not really be around all that much, one of them would be me. So I could see that it might not be such a great idea.

So, I decided it would be a better idea to just ask him if he wanted to go out an play pool or something one night this week. What, you ask, if he doesn't play pool? Well, that's why I was including "or something" - open-ended. To be honest, I didn't know what "or something" might be.

I called him and after saying hello and letting him know who it was, I confidently (I am assured by my girl friend who sat in my living foom when I called - because she wanted to make sure that I DID call) asked him the above question. The answer was "welllll, I don't play pool ..." - so with little hope of salvaging the day, I mentioned movies, but there isn't anything coming out this week that either of us wanted to see. Next week, of course, Star Wars is coming out, and he made mention of that, but the group of people that we game with already have plans made to go on Friday next week, so I don't know why he brought it up. I asked what else he likes to do, and he said he really doesn't do much besides the gaming, which is how I met him to start with, and which he does at home. (To be fair, he does have a very demanding and physical job and works a lot of hours - he and his brothers have a family dairy farm that just the three of them work - 6 days a week he's up by 4 am and works most of the day, generally finishing up around 5 or 6 pm, often later. I think I might not want to do much else besides relax at home, either.)

I figured the conversation was pretty much over after that, I know if I had just been asked out by a guy and didn't want to encourage him, I would say "thanks for thinking of me - gotta go" but he kept talking to me, and we chatted another 20 minutes or so. That was difficult and confusing for me, but because I don't want to stop being friends with him and don't want to screw up the "group dynamic," I stayed on the phone. Besides I LIKE talking with him.

So... I'd say that was a no. And I'd say it's an "I'm not interested in you that way." And if I'm wrong, then he knows my phone number and he can make the next move.

HOWEVER, where was this "direct approach" stuff you guys claim as your preferred means of communication? "no" is so much simpler... Like the difference between slowly removing a band-aid from your forearm and feeling the hairs ripped out one by one over several seconds as opposed to just yanking the damned thing off for one split second of eye-watering pain...

Men are no more direct at communication than women are, based on this experience... ya'll LIED. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

T

Well, good for you for at least giving it a shot... and I'm sorry for the reaction you got. Trust me though, you are better off having given it a try and being shot down than you'd have been having done nothing at all. Fore, when one does nothing and lets an opportunity slip away... you tend to kick yourself over it for a LOT longer (and one tends to think ones self a bit of a chicken!).

And for what it's worth... I happen to have a very good female friend who would whole heartedly disagree with you about how direct men (well at least this man) tends to be about stuff... relationship boundary definition stuff in particular!

On top of that sweetheart, you are painting with an awefully broad brush! I married a total nut case... but do I claim all women are nuts.... oh wait a second.... I guess I kinda.... ummmm, well... nevermind... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

LOL, well, it seems that most of the men here painted their own gender with that very wide brush before I did!

I'm not sure I'm quite ready to be "glad I asked" yet, but I guess it beats not being able to breathe just thinking about asking him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I know that I obviously don't read "signals" well from the opposite gender - not sure how to improve that or if it can even be improved.

Thanks for stopping in with the kind words.

T

terri,

You know that there are no guarantees in life, but if you had not asked him out then you would have been left wondering what if? Now you have more knowledge about him and its up to you decide whether or not you want to continue trying to date him.

TMCM

Terri,

Sorry to hear it didn't work out the way you hoped. His loss I say!

Miker

Terri, there are times when the direct approach cannot work. For example, when you don't know where you want to go.

I think it is safe to say that when this man said "we could do this again sometime" he wasn't saying "I really really want to spend some more one-on-one time with you and explore the possibility of a relationship, and I hope very much that you will take this subtle hint and make some sort of response which might indicate that you might share my interest so that I can jump at the chance of doing anything at all with you no matter what that might be."

In fact, what I think he meant was "I think I would enjoy doing something with you again some time, if you are also open to the possibility and if we can find something we would both like to do which fits into both of our calendars. I'm not going to stretch my imagination too much to come up with something, but if something happens to come up, I might very well be interested."

Put another way, I don't think from what you've said that you can conclude he's not interested in you in "that way." No, it doesn't appear that he's madly in love with you - he's not interested enough to change his plans or lifestyle to pursue you - but it's impossible for me to guess anything more one way or the other.

As you point out, he can always make the next move. At least he knows now that you have some degree of interest, and if he's got any sense he knows that the ball is in his court.

You could pursue him if you really want to, but you risk appearing desperate, and I hope that you have given serious thought to whether he is really the sort of man you ought to pursue. Knowing what you know of his lifestyle, is it something to which you would enthusiastically adapt?

But terri, with all of that said, here's what particularly struck me about your post:

I don't understand this. If you were asked out by a guy you didn't like, then I can see why you would say "gotta go." But why would you do this if you were asked out by a friend? Does a tentative expression of possible romantic interest suddenly void the friendship?

I readily admit that my relationship experience is extremely limited, but neither of the women in whom I ever expressed interest (and being the direct sort of person that I am, I didn't just hint at it) let it get in the way of their friendship with me.

hi terri...
i get asked out all the time and i take it as a compliment...and 99.9% of the time i say no but i go out of my way to be polite and say why and that this should not affect whatever relationship we share now....direct and honest...we men are not the brightest critters sometimes and we certainly can use help in reading you ladies so help him out and tell him...

GnomeDePlume wrote:

I'll answer the second question first: We learn by our experiences, that's why. In the past when I've expressed interest, that's exactly what it's done for me - void the friendship. The last couple of times I've been brave enough to express interest in members of the opposite sex it's been not just awkward but very emotionally painful. In one case, I was told "don't ever speak to me again" after being unjustly accused of STALKING the guy (he told people he'd had to put up with "drive-bys" - I did drive past his house - he lived on the main drag - on my way to the GROCERY store - ). And a close friendship came very close to being destroyed by the fact that I expressed romantic interest. That was probably most painful, because it is a person I work with on an every day basis (resolved very well, now, however - and I was just asked to sing at his wedding).

And to address the first question: in the past, I've had difficulty after saying no to someone that they figured I must not really mean I'm not interested because I continued being nice to them. One guy I have been friends with for a very long time actually told my then-boyfriend that he should be careful, because if he (my boyfriend) screwed up, my friend would be scooping me up. And he's always been there trying until recent years. Because finally he asked me why I wouldn't go out with him, and I told him I wasn't attracted to him that way, but I loved him like a brother. And he finally accepted that and things have settled into a comfortable friendship with him (of course, he's on the opposite side of the country from me now, too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />).

So, to me, based on my experiences, it was confusing that this guy continued the conversation... I figured it was obvious that the point of the call was that I was asking him out (of course, there I go "[censored]-u-ming") and that he wouldn't be interested in talking to me after that.

It's not impossible that we might just need to find out more about each other's interests. Again, I made an "assumption," because around here it is exceedingly rare to find a guy that does not play pool... every guy I've known up to him has played. He did mention the movies, so I am planning on asking him if I can ride with him when we all go to see Star Wars. I know that THAT is ok <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

As for his lifestyle ... well, it doesn't sound so bad to me. I would know where he was most of the time at least! I was married to a guy who who worked until 10 pm five out of the six days he worked (including Saturdays and Sundays) and who made a point of making plans with his golf buddies on the one day he did have off, regardless of what I wanted... and who, during the last several years that we were together, didn't come home after work until perhaps 1 or 2 am, drunk...

T

TMCM,
No guarantees in life ... that's an understatement when taken in context with the title of this forum! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> As for whether I will continue to try - I'm not even going to decide that just now. As GnomeDePlume pointed out, pursuing him at this point might look desperate, and I had thought of this during the phone call. I was hesitant to make any more suggestions after movies because A) I was feeling a little stupid myself and B) I didn't want to sound like I was BEGGING him to go out with me. So I'm going to just go along like normal - go to movies with the group when the opportunities come up, participate in gaming with everyone... and be myself. And we'll see what happens, if anything.

T

Any time you ask a guy his hobbies and he says "gaming", run away as fast as you can.

Unless you don't mind calling him "dungeon master" in bed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Slap, to be quite honest, I'd love to (heck, after the dry spell I've had, I'd call him anything he wanted in bed <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />). Online gaming is how I met to start with! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Gee, there's an idea... I've actually never played D&D and ALWAYS wanted to (I do know that he plays). Maybe I just need to ask him if he'd teach me how to play. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

T

That's interesting... I had another post that I submitted before this one... but it seems to have DISAPPEARED!

To recreate it:

Miker, thanks for the sympathy...

KA1, I'm not sure what it is I should be helping him out and telling him - would you please clarify that for me?

Thanks, guys... This has been quite a learning experience for me. I'll probably get it wrong next time, too, though, so I don't know how much I've really absorbed from the lesson. We'll see how things go.

T

Terri,

Perhaps I can help confuse you further. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I was a batchelor until my 30's and dated alot. I think that most men are NOT direct in regards to relationships, unless they become very serious. Even then "direct" is an odd word because us guys are notorious for NOT being able to voice our feelings.

I think the fellow you asked talked to you because he could and was comfortable with you. I would also guess that he is somewhat reticent to date given what you said about his marriage. He is also a "gamer" and frankly if you read these boards very long you will see a lot of women her complaining because all their H does is play games/a game on the computer. You will also find a fair number of women that end up in affairs via men they meet playing games.

I am not saying exclude men that have a hobby of playing games on line, but be careful.

My other comment is that if you are going to have a relationship now, have one with someone who is your friend first and foremost. Perhaps this guy and you will develop a friendship, I hope so. But, let it develop this way.

Finally, men are still a little freaked when women are ask them out. Especially, men 40 and up, and very likely men who have been burned in a marriage. I agree you should have asked him, because you wanted to. I am not surprised at his response. The good news is that he knows you find him interesting. So if you play it cool and remain in a "friendly" mode with him this can work in your favor.

I wish you all of the best and I suspect you will find a good man to date in the near future. You are still coming out from under all of the mess of your marriage. As you do and as your confidence increases, you will find that men are and will be attracted to you. Be choosy, that is my advice. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

God Bless,

JL

JL,

Thank you for your input... as you predicted, it confuses me further! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I do want to clarify something - I met this guy about 3 years ago or more and I first met him in person - a friend of a friend of a friend. So stating that I "met" him via online gaming is actually not quite true. However, I've gotten to know him better because we all play every week now. The group I play with are mostly reasonably local people (a core group that lives within 10-15 miles of each other, with a few that are a little further out but have ties to the local area) and we play closed games. Computer and console gaming would be a better way to describe both his and my gaming hobbies and one of the things we have in common is the reluctance to participate in open online gaming - the experience is not always fun. Computer gaming has ALWAYS been a HUGE passion (if not something of an obsession) of mine, so I find it uncommon and refreshing to find someone with the same interests, particularly as I am a 40-something female.

I hope that clears up some of the concern about hobbies. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks again!

T

Men are notorious for not even understanding their feelings, let alone voicing them!

You can't be direct about communicating something until you are aware of it yourself.

Just to be clear, I never said men were direct, they just liked for women to be direct about what they want.

I think the post above gives some insight regarding why.

I think there are two extremes in men that start from the same point. Men who know what they want and go for it. Men who know what they want and have not the courage to go for it.

I'm sure there is a third group that just doesn't know what they want.

I would like to think I'm in the I know what I want and go for it group <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

T

I'll throw in my 2 nickels here. IMHO if he was truly interested in a "date", he would've made that clear. I know that if I was interested I might've said, "I don't play pool but maybe you could teach me" or "I really would like to do something together - how about going out for a drink after work?".

As a man I know I like the no head games approach to dating and relationships. But you also do not want to hurt someone's feelings, so you might do what this guy did.

He might not have immediately said "...no thanks, gotta go" because he 1) is a nice guy and 2) doesn't want to hurt your feelings and 3) wants to remain friends.

I applaud you for having the courage to ask and be direct. And you never know, maybe he was taken aback and may very well ask YOU out at some point.

Regards,
ITB

GnomeDePlume wrote:


And Confused_Ex_Husb followed with:


OK, so ... men want women to be direct, because they don't want to try to read their minds... but women still need to be able to read the minds of men - who sometimes can't read their own minds. Does that accurately sum up what I'm hearing/reading here? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Thanks, guys!

That's not what I heard, I heard that someone had two nickels, I'm gonna see if he'll loan me one..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />