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Powerful stuff, MM. Amazing how many of us ladies are waiting to see what our part is.




Yeah, I noticed that! Maybe I should have started with the ladies. But then again, it kinda feels good to have all of these ladies waiting impatiently for the Mortarman!!! Just kidding!!

Gal stuff coming very soon!

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It's like pins and needles, I am so excited to read the women's end of this lol

-ds


Dorry (aka Deeplysorry)
me FWW - EA/PA fall of 2004
FWH EA/PA late spring 2005
Got our acts together July 2005 and started recovery.

The Recovery Guide for WW's (Wayward Wives)
Dorry's Story

[color:"blue"]Excuses are easy...change is hard....[/color]
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Wives

Since I did give the guys a preview, here is one for the gals...

God says there are two words which describe the roles of husbands and wives in marriage. Husbands are to love (agape) as I have shown above. Wives are to respect, or reverence their husbands.

It is interesting that God never commands a woman to love her husband. My wife used to say jokingly "You know, you have the hard part. All I have to do is submit...you have to die!!" Now while that is simplistic, it does have truth to it.

Much of what I will bring here from this study is not what secular, feminist society gives us. They hate the word submission. Feels it denegrates women. But wait a minute, the last I checked, God is a feminist, if the definition of a feminist is someone that is pro-woman, someone who is out for the best interests of women.

Women were the crown of God's creation. God sat there, after He finished everything...and looked right at Adam and said "this aint good." Then, after creating Eve, He said of His Creation "This is VERY good." Feminists today want to say that the roles prescribed by the Bible make women second class citizens. That is ABSOLUTELY not true. Women are the crown of God's Creation. They are the pinnacle of all He created in the Universe.

You take a look at the stars in the sky, or the beauty of a sunset amd think "Wow." But then think that when God was creating those, He wasnt done yet. He had to get to "very good." And that creations was the woman.

A marriage is supposed to be a picture of God, of who He is and what He is about. I nthe Godhead, we know there are three parts: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. In a marriage, we know there are three parts: husband, wife, and Jesus. Just like with the Godhead, each of those parts have their individual functions and responsibilities. But do we not say that the Holy Spirit is equal to the Father? Is not Jesus equal to His Father (remember, He thought it not robbery to be considered equal to God)?

Then why in the world would we not think that a wife is not equal to her husband, just because of some of theroles and responsibilities that were assigned to her by God? What makes her roles and responsibilities less important than those of the husband?

In the Army, we have officers and we have non-commissioned officers (sergeants). In a unit, for example a Company, there is a Captain, who is the officer in charge...in command. There is also a First Sergeant, who is the NCO in charge. Are these two men equal? As a soldier, yes. They are equal. Roles? Yes. They both have their job to do, which are quite different. But who is in command? The Captain is in command, as designated by the Army. Nowas a First Sergeant, I had many more years of experience than that Captain. The last one I had was only in the military for about 7 years. While I had to close to 20 years of infantry experience. In terms of knowledge of the battlefield, in terms of soldiering...I had this man hands down. So, why wasnt I in charge? Because I wasnt an officer. The Army said that they need educated men and women in tactics and other things to lead units. So, they educate them and send them out to the units, wit hthe responsibility for whatever that unit does and does not do.

As an NCO, I rose thru the ranks. I didnt have to lead due to schooling (all though the Army gave me that). I led by example. I am the guy that trains the troops...not the Captain. I am the guy that looks out for their needs...not the Captain. And in most cases, when the bullets are flying overhead...it is me that the young private is looking for direction from...not the Captain. But in the end, the Captain makes the ultimate decisions. He gets to make the call. Why? Because the Army holds him responsible for whatever that unit does or does not do.

God gives men the headship of the home. He is given command, so to speak. He is the wife's leader. And as such, God holds him responsible for what happens and what does not happen in that home. God will not look to his wife for the answers why their children were not raised properly. He will ask their father. And it does not matter if that father is not there. I have seen captains releaved of command for actions of their units when they werent even around. One was releaved for actions of his unit while he was on vacation with his wife.

Do you see now? Husbands have an even higher stake in the marriage, and the upbringing of those kids. Ladies, you are NOT held responsible by God for what your husband does or doesnt do. But your husband sure is held responsible for what you do.

Anyway, a short blurb there. I am finishing up the first of three sections for the women on reverencing your husband.

Oh, and here are the three sections. Wanted to list them like I did for the guys.

Wives (Respect your husbands)
1. Submitting to your husband
2. Seducing your husband
3. Surrendering to your husband

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" Most women want a little everyday from their man, whether it be attention or pasturing or whatever…rather than two or three biggies a year."

Well ... duh ... this seems soooo obvious to the females here ... are you saying this is big news for the males?

Really? hmmmmmmmmm

Pep (thinking, reading, waiting)

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Quote:

" Most women want a little everyday from their man, whether it be attention or pasturing or whatever…rather than two or three biggies a year."

Well ... duh ... this seems soooo obvious to the females here ... are you saying this is big news for the males?

Really? hmmmmmmmmm

Pep (thinking, reading, waiting)




Unfortunately, the answer is YES, Pep. Why? Because men are built differently. Example?

I read once about a woman that had figured men out. She had decided to find a way where SF wasnt such a battle between her and and her husband. She wanted it 1-2 times a week...she said he seemed like he wanted a wife who could go one to two times a day (what's wrong with that?!?!?! . So, she made a deal with her husband.

She would make sure that they got together at least three times a week, barring illnesses and the like. That would be a little more than she needed, but a little less than he needed. In return...once every three months, the would block out a weekend.

It started on a Friday night at 8pm. It ended at Sunday night at 8pm. The kids went to her mother's. And here was what she proposed. Her husband could have any kind of sex with her, anywhere, anytime...and as many times as he wanted over that weekend. She would be available to and for him. She would not say no. No matter what time it was, or what his request was. But, once he had his fill...once he could go no further and did not desire any more, then he was hers for the rest of the weekend to do what she wanted, like going shopping or whatever. She said usually, he was done by early evening Saturday. And the rest of the weekend, he followed her around like a puppy dog with a smile on his face.

Now, for a man...that two day deal was worth more than all of the other times put together! Now, I am not saying that we just want it 4 times a year. What I am saying is that on those 4 weekends a year, she made them extra-special and was totally available and undistracted to and for him.

Huge!! But what I have found is, while the big weekend cruises or going out to dinner or parties or shopping or whatever are great for women, what registers with you all a lot more is when us men rack up countless hours just sitting with you on the couch rubbing your feet while watching TV. Or sitting at the kitchen table over breakfast, as you tell the gossip of the day.

We like the regular stuff...but we LOVE the big events. Women seem to like the big events...BUT love the regular attention.

I admire that woman.She even said "Hey, look...not like the weekend sucked for me. I mean, I got something out of the SF also!!" She had realized the differences between them on SF, and came up with a great compromise. Wanna bet on how much conflict there is in that house over sex anymore? I am betting not much!!

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Am I the only one who finds this post full of over simplified generalizations...

frought with stereo-typical examples

and overall disrepect/doom and gloom over the existance for both a man and womans ability to have a loving healthy marriage in Gods eye....

one example...in my ever so humble opinion....


As I heard in this study...you know, before Jesus met you, He was doing fine. Before He came down to Earth, He was living large. He never knew pain, He never knew betrayal. Until He met me, He was living the perfect life.


I think God knew pain the moment evil Eve gave Adam the apple....

I think HE found joy while on earth....
and pain,

like all of us....

is it really just me??

ARK^^

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Quote:

Am I the only one who finds this post full of over simplified generalizations...

frought with stereo-typical examples

and overall disrepect/doom and gloom over the existance for both a man and womans ability to have a loving healthy marriage in Gods eye....

one example...in my ever so humble opinion....


As I heard in this study...you know, before Jesus met you, He was doing fine. Before He came down to Earth, He was living large. He never knew pain, He never knew betrayal. Until He met me, He was living the perfect life.


I think God knew pain the moment evil Eve gave Adam the apple....

I think HE found joy while on earth....
and pain,

like all of us....

is it really just me??

ARK^^




Hay Ark...

You made my point exactly. Ever since Jesus met man, ever since Eve and Adam did what they did, Jesus has known pain. Before that, the eternity before that, there was no such thing as pain.

Of course God experienced pain with us from the beginning, and He knew He would when He spun this whole thing into creation. He knew that if you are going to have love, as well as free will...then there is going to be pain. unavoidable. it is two sides of the coin.

The point to the admitted generalization is that Jesus had a choice a long, long time ago. He might not have created us, and saved Himself pain. He might not have come down and died for us, and saved us a lot of pain. He could have just let us have what we deserve, instead of Hm taking our consequences.

And, we as men must love our wives like Jesus has loved us. And that means not giving them what they necessarily deserve. Sure, we might not have had the pain that has come, and is most certainly to come. But remember, pain is one side of the coin. There was a country song a few years ago that spoke to this, that if I had not met you, even though it ended, then I would have missed the dance.

So again, in order to love like Jesus, we have to love in spite of the pain, betrayal. We have to die to ourselves and die for our wives. Anything less, is not loving our wives like Jesus loves us. And if we are not doing that...then we are in direct violation of a God0given command. And we should not expect a marriage and blessings as we had hoped.

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His kind of love is what is called Agape in the Bible. it is ithe kind of love that asks for nothing from the recipient.

in other words unconditional love....yes?
except that here on earth love is beyond a feeling word and is an action word....

so God loves each individual fiercely unconditionally and each hold great value to Him...
I agree with that....

and it is because he values each of us that God would not want us to love unconditionally in action to the point that it litterally destroys us....

that the husband that loves his wife unconditionally should NOT do so in action at all cost...ie life...

so if a husband is married to someone who is a drug addict and destroying the life of children...or who is an infidel and putting at risk the life of their spouse...ie aides, etc...

then it would appear that while the husband is free to maintain the unconditional love in feeling...they should not continue the unconditional love in ACTION...
to point of destroying their own life....

meaning that if I became some out of control unfaithful wife to Mr. Ark....he may be called by God to always hold on to love for me...God would not expect him to continue to sleep with me to the point of causing his own death...

I believe that God values the individual equally...
and does not value the man through his unconditional love in destructive actions...

Sure, it will hurt. Crosses hurt. Spikes in your hand hurt. Spikes in your feet hurt. Spears in your side hurt. No one is saying that loving your wife wont hurt.

why do you say this motarman?...I would say that there are plenty of marriages in which love is not a painful thing but a blessed thing.......that there are plenty of marriages in which either has yet to hurt the other in any way that is more than superficial petty silly things....
and that these marriages are blessed by God...

As I have listed above, sacrifice…true sacrifice…is a public event. It has to be seen, by your wife and by others. Sacrifice also means you must suffer. It is the nature of sacrifice. If you are not suffering, then it isn’t sacrifice yet. As I outlined above.

grandiose demonstrative sacrifices ?

Four women were trapped in the storm as baseball sized hail rained down. And that sized hail can kill you. Their husbands were underneath an overhang, and when they saw their wives trapped in the deluge, they bolted out from underneath and ran thru the hail to them.

thousands sacrifice their lives for strangers as well...we become who we are meant to be..children of God...by being who we should be...brothers to our brothers....

God can’t raise something or someone that hasn’t died yet. In order to have a Crown, you have to have a Cross. You must die.

are you saying that God wants each marriage to be visited by some horrible trajedy...that is his vision of marriage...

ARKIE^^

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God can’t raise something or someone that hasn’t died yet. In order to have a Crown, you have to have a Cross. You must die.

are you saying that God wants each marriage to be visited by some horrible trajedy...that is his vision of marriage...


Ark articulated my incomprehension here too. I started musing on this when FH sent me a magnificent post on Christian Husbandry over on recovery.

Must we as husbands suffer to be truly husbands ?

Was I not a worthy husband to my family until I had to wrest my wife , family and life back from the crack of doom ?

Am I now more worthy though I am left with self worth issues, great sadness and a forever degraded relationship with Squid ?

Was her affair and my near destruction a 'gift' from God to inspire my husbandry ?

I don't understand MM. Help me to understand.


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She didn’t let you see all of that stuff…because she knew that you would have said then what you are saying now “I wouldn’t have married you if I knew all of this.” You didn’t see her without make-up, or with her hair undone. You didn’t see the nasty attributes she hid from you. You didn’t see the “Dark Side.”

yes all women are coniving manipulating little things aren't they....

oohh that phrase above makes me want weep...
what a lovely view of woman that paints...

superficial crap ...without makeup
without their hair done....
blecch

and woman KNOW their spouses would NOT have married them if they knew this about them....


I'm gonna have to go find my dark side.....

You want her to talk to you different than she used to talk to you? You want her to relate to you differently than she used to relate to you?

So are you saying that God just dismisses the marriages in which people pretty much always talked nicely to one another...

where people pretty much all along related well to one another...

Your wife may be this big problem. But if she is brought daily into the realm of your touch, your kindness, your shepherding, your care…then she won’t mind winding up as a square watermelon.

Mr. Ark prefers corn to watermellon...if he wants to try to change me in to an ear of corn....is that OK...

ARK^^

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But I do know that you ladies have more power than you know of. Oh sure, you know the sexual power you have over us to get what you want.

I hate this perpertual myth that sex is some tool to be used to get what you want...

I do not believe for a second that God's gift of human sexuality and all its wonder should be diminished to a power move to get what you want...

I don't believe that I have ever used sex to get anything except pleasure for myself and for my spouse....

nor do I believe that Gods design is for us to ever view it as thus....

As I said to the guys above, it is a risk to agape a woman that will take advatange of you and not do her part.

there's that evil view of women again out to destroy man any and every way they can....

Women were the crown of God's creation.
I thought they were the evil usurpers of men....needing to be changed in to square watermellon.....

arkie

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So again, in order to love like Jesus, we have to love in spite of the pain, betrayal. We have to die to ourselves and die for our wives. Anything less, is not loving our wives like Jesus loves us. And if we are not doing that...then we are in direct violation of a God0given command. And we should not expect a marriage and blessings as we had hoped

so to be a good wife and have mr. ark be a good husband..I better get busy with causing him much pain and betrayal...
cause he may be in direct violation based on my devotion to God,
family and my hubby........

ARK

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I read once about a woman that had figured men out. She had decided to find a way where SF wasnt such a battle between her and and her husband

she might have tried not battling with it..and just enjoying it...

Her husband could have any kind of sex with her, anywhere, anytime...and as many times as he wanted over that weekend.

yeah that's a healthy agreement......
leaves one wide open for consensual abuse....

What I am saying is that on those 4 weekends a year, she made them extra-special and was totally available and undistracted to and for him.

perhaps she could have done this ALL the time....
what's wrong with that?

arkie

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Quote:

that the husband that loves his wife unconditionally should NOT do so in action at all cost...ie life...


Dont be so absolute here. What about the husband that pushes his wife out of the way of an oncoming vehicle and he takes the hit? That was a loss of life for his wife?

Quote:

so if a husband is married to someone who is a drug addict and destroying the life of children...or who is an infidel and putting at risk the life of their spouse...ie aides, etc...

Then it would appear that while the husband is free to maintain the unconditional love in feeling...they should not continue the unconditional love in ACTION...
to point of destroying their own life....


No one said there shouldnt be boundaries. Jesus even has boundaries. "...no one gets to the Father except through Me." Judas betrayed Him. We all have. He died for even the ones who have and will reject Him. Does that mean that His blood will cover the unbeliever's sins? Absolutely not. Dying for that unbeliever is not the same thing as being run over by them. Dying is what I wrote somewhere i nthat study, where it is dying to self. I should always put my wife's needs ahead of anyone elses, even my children's. But let's use the drug scenario. is it loving of my wife to let her continue in that, to continue possible abuse of my children? No it is not. Is it loving of me to get my children out of that environment and to have my wife get help before resuming contact with them? Absolutely.

Agape is God's kind of love. We can NOT do it on our own. it is impossible for any human being to agape anyone. That is without Jesus.

I will go into this more with Bob Pure's questions.


Quote:

I believe that God values the individual equally...
and does not value the man through his unconditional love in destructive actions...


God values man in spite of his destructive behaviors. That is what agape means.

Quote:

Sure, it will hurt. Crosses hurt. Spikes in your hand hurt. Spikes in your feet hurt. Spears in your side hurt. No one is saying that loving your wife wont hurt.

why do you say this motarman?...I would say that there are plenty of marriages in which love is not a painful thing but a blessed thing.......that there are plenty of marriages in which either has yet to hurt the other in any way that is more than superficial petty silly things....
and that these marriages are blessed by God...


First off, that is very doubtful. Sure, there are many marriages where there hasnt been infidelity. Or abuse. But to say there has been perfection (and just having silly spureficial stuff would be pretty close to perfection) is almost impossible. As a matter of fact, if that were true, that couple would have to be living by what God has laid out for the roles of husbands and wives. But the pain I talk about is not the pain of abuse or hurt that comes from the actions of a wife, necessarily. It is the pain that comes from sacrifice. Let me take something petty first. And this is an actual example. when my wife came back home to me and the kids, she was driving this broken down car (she had lost the expedition I had bought her because of repossession...I had put up boundaries and not paid it while she was in the A). When she walked back in, one of the first things I did was flip her the keys to my new car that I had just bought 6 months earlier. And I drove this broken down car for the next year until we bought one to replace it. Now, was that fair? Didnt I miss the CD player (the broken down one that I had now didnt have a CD player)? My wife had left in the affair, thus losing her Expedition. Why did I have to feel the pain of having to drive this piece of crap while my wife drove the nice new sedan? Agape. It is what Jesus told me to do. To put my wife ahead of me. To always put her needs, her desires ahead of my own. And any time you do that, you will have some kind of pain. Believe me, there were days I absolutely hated driving that car.

Quote:

As I have listed above, sacrifice…true sacrifice…is a public event. It has to be seen, by your wife and by others. Sacrifice also means you must suffer. It is the nature of sacrifice. If you are not suffering, then it isn’t sacrifice yet. As I outlined above.

grandiose demonstrative sacrifices ?


No. Not standing up saying "look at me." What is meant here is the kind of sacrifice that does not hide. Example? Well, let's say I had planned to play golf this coming weekend with the guys. But I found our about something my wife really wanted to go do or see with me. So, I make the decision to cancel the golf game and to go for her, putting her needs and desires ahead of mine. But I tell my friends that I am cancelling because of some other reason (sick, broken faucet, whatever). I do this because I dont want them to think that I dropped them because I wanted to take care of my wife's needs. No. Instead, my sacrifice has to be public. I tell the guys the truth...that my wife needs me, and I'll catch them next week. Simplistic example? sure, but I think you get the point.

Quote:

Four women were trapped in the storm as baseball sized hail rained down. And that sized hail can kill you. Their husbands were underneath an overhang, and when they saw their wives trapped in the deluge, they bolted out from underneath and ran thru the hail to them.

thousands sacrifice their lives for strangers as well...we become who we are meant to be..children of God...by being who we should be...brothers to our brothers....


No doubt. But that sacrificial love is what God calls a husband to do daily for his wife. In everything.

Quote:

God can’t raise something or someone that hasn’t died yet. In order to have a Crown, you have to have a Cross. You must die.

are you saying that God wants each marriage to be visited by some horrible trajedy...that is his vision of marriage...


Of course not. As I said above, it means a husband must die to himself. If he wants changes in his wife, in his marriage, he must die to himself. He must put her first. His needs, his wants, his desires must be secondary to hers.

More soon.

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So the only thung that a husband should find satisfation in is serving the caprice of his wife, even if it delivers him misery and frustration?
If placing our wives' wants above our own is holy and desirable, why then does God allow us to divorce cheating wives ? Should we not drive them to OMs house and wait to drive her home when she's finished as this is placing their desires over our own ?

I'm really struggling with this MM. I have, with RIFs help, started to adopt headship of my family and to serve my wife as God intends but I am struggling with the tenets you lay out in this thread.

help me understand please.

Thanks.


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Quote:

So the only thung that a husband should find satisfation in is serving the caprice of his wife, even if it delivers him misery and frustration?
If placing our wives' wants above our own is holy and desirable, why then does God allow us to divorce cheating wives ? Should we not drive them to OMs house and wait to drive her home when she's finished as this is placing their desires over our own ?

I'm really struggling with this MM. I have, with RIFs help, started to adopt headship of my family and to serve my wife as God intends but I am struggling with the tenets you lay out in this thread.

help me understand please.

Thanks.


Hey Bob...sure, let's look at this because I think both you and Ark are looking at this from the wrong direction. I can answer all of the other questions Ark had and you had above right here.

Agape does not mean you drive her to the OM's house. Take it to another addiction...drugs. If my wife was a drug addict, her desires would be for more drugs. Now, you are asking if I should provide the drugs, or take her to her drug dealer. Now, how in the world is that loving?

Maybe I should have qualified things above. But, we need to understand that Jesus doesnt grant us all of our desires either. It is like in the Bible, it says if a believer asks, God will grant his request. Well, I know pretty much for sure that if I ask for a million dollars this morning, it isnt going to happen. Does that mean Christ doesnt agape me? Because he didnt grant me that desire? Of course not.

I gave you an example in my last post of agape, of putting my wife's needs ahead of mine. But if I were to buy her drugs, although she had a desire for them, I wouldnt be being loving by getting them for her and hurting her. Do you see?

You are your wife's head. You are to agape her, to put her ahead of your own needs, wants and desires. But in a loving way. Never in order to hurt or destroy. Sometimes that means you have to do things contrary to what she is asking for.

Have you read Hosea in the Bible? If not, read it. look at what Hosea gave up for his prostitute wife. For TEN years!! And then, when she was finally broken down and couldnt run any more, in front of the entire town square, he went and bought her back. And brought her home. And as he did, he laid down the rules and boundaries of her return. Read it. And you will understand more of what I am talking about.

If anyone has read my threads from when this all first started for me, they will see that while I was deployed to Bosnia, I knew something wasnt right at home...but didnt know about the affair. But as I prayed, I kept getting the same message over and over again. "mortarman, stop worrying about your wife, get back to your first love (Jesus), and die for your wife." I have spent three years getting to understand what Jesus was trying to tell me there.

Sacrifice is not sacrifice that is thoughtless or pointless. It isnt debasing yourself or having no boundaries. It is putting your wife's greater good ahead of your own.

Is her continuing in the A her greater good? Of course not. And you need not support her in that. In my case, I stopped paying any of her bills after she moved out. She had to go to bankruptsy. But I alwats kept a watchful eye that she had enough to eat (sometimes the kids and I would buy some groceries and slip them into her car while she was at work). EVERY TIME she was sick, it wasnt the Om there at her apartment taking care of her...it was me. I would get a sitter for the kids, and then go there. One time while she was gone, she was so sick, that I thought she was going to have to be hospitalized. I took off work, and stayed at her apartment and fed her, bathed her, held her, etc. You think that wasnt painful? Here she was in this apartment she got so the OM and her could be together, and I was in there taking care of her. thoughts of what they had done there swirled thru my head. Many times, I left there in agony over it. But, my wife was sick...and she needed me. her need at that time had to be put ahead of my needs, and my pain. After she got better, did she stop seeing the OM? nope. Affair went on a little while longer. But what I had done made a lasting impression on her. And on the OM. And on others around me. Many called me a fool for so long. Why take that abuse? Let the OM take care of her when she is sick. But over time, as the people around me saw what I was doing, the sacrifices I was making (like retiring from the military...a job I loved), they began to stop calling me a fool. At first, they were just quiet and watched. And as they saw my wife return, they began to comment things like "I know what you are doing, and I so respect what you ar doing for your wife and kids." And now?? Well those same friends are mad at me because their wives are now on their cases...want to know why they dont love them like I love my wife.

Did my wife deserve ANY of that??? Absolutely not. She deserved the opposite. but grace is something different. grace is giving something to someone that they do not deserve, did not ask for...and were actively rebelling against.

Like I said, agape is putting your wife's needs, wants and desires ahead of your own. Putting her best interests ahead of your own. but that requires us husbands to die to ourselves.

Wives are not commanded to do this. Sure, they can do this...and it would be nice. but they are not commanded to do this.

One question above that I would like to address is why God does allow divorce. And He does, for certain reasons...such as adultery. He allows it, but never commands it. Remember, God in Malachi says that He hates divorce. Any divorce!! Even for adultery. He hates them.

someone said to me when I was contemplating divorce from my wife i nthe middle of the mess, that if I was waiting for God to tell me to divorce my wife, then I would be waiting a long time. Because God will never tell you to divorce your wife. Never.

As Jesus said, divorce was ALLOWED due to the hardness of our hearts. He realized that some people would not be able to get past what has happened. He also realized that the BS is a victim, and to hold that victim to a spouse that continues in adultery was too much many times. So, He allows divorce.

But divorce is the last resort. I am a beter man today for what I have gone thru. I rely on Christ more. I am a better husband and father. Not much gets me upset anymore. I dotn even think much about dying for my wife anymore, as it is beginnign to become a habit.

You know, Jesus washed the feet of His disciples i nthat upper room. even though He knew they would let Him down the next day. He even washed Judas' feet, the man He knew that was about to betray Him. Jesus was a servant. And rue leaders are servants.

I hope this has helped. Please keep asking questions and we can walk thru this together. This kind of love is so antithetical to what we humans are used to or know. It is God's kind of love.

In His arms

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Mortarman, I just want to interrupt to say – what a wonderful thread! Thanks for sharing. Like some other ladies here, I also wait in anticipation to hear what you further have to say about the wife’s roles!

I noticed you mentioned Hosea in the Bible… Have you ever read the book ”Redeemed through love” (or ”Redeeming love”) by the American author Francine Rivers? It’s an absolute fantastic book with a very deep and touching story, but also very painful and heartbreaking to read... The story in this book is based on the chapter Hosea in the Bible and the author has really done a fantastic job with the creating of that book... A friend borrowed the book to me and now I find myself forwarding the book to everyone else (with my friend's permission of course )!

Blessings,
Suzet

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Quote:

Mortarman, I just want to interrupt to say – what a wonderful thread! Thanks for sharing. Like some other ladies here, I also wait in anticipation to hear what you further have to say about the wife’s roles!

I noticed you mentioned Hosea in the Bible… Have you ever read the book ”Redeemed through love” (or ”Redeeming love”) by the American author Francine Rivers? It’s an absolute fantastic book with a very deep and touching story, but also very painful and heartbreaking to read... The story in this book is based on the chapter Hosea in the Bible and the author has really done a fantastic job with the creating of that book... A friend borrowed the book to me and now I find myself forwarding the book to everyone else (with my friend's permission of course )!

Blessings,
Suzet




Suzet,

Thanks. I am actively working on the women's part...should start seeing it tomorrow.

I have not heard of that book, but I will get it. thanks for the heads up!!

In His arms.

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ARK said....
?...I would say that there are plenty of marriages in which love is not a painful thing but a blessed thing.......that there are plenty of marriages in which either has yet to hurt the other in any way that is more than superficial petty silly things....
and that these marriages are blessed by God...

Mortarman replied...

First off, that is very doubtful. Sure, there are many marriages where there hasnt been infidelity. Or abuse. But to say there has been perfection (and just having silly spureficial stuff would be pretty close to perfection) is almost impossible. As a matter of fact, if that were true, that couple would have to be living by what God has laid out for the roles of husbands and wives. But the pain I talk about is not the pain of abuse or hurt that comes from the actions of a wife, necessarily. It is the pain that comes from sacrifice.

First off, that is very doubtful.

well how can it be doubtful if that is the role and plan of God and marriage..
how can you list all of these attributes and then deny the reality of it coming to fruition....

isn't that the exact goal that God sets the bar at..
why deny that can exist...which does not mean that the existiance of the goal is perfection...it is a continual work in progress...

and just having silly spureficial stuff would be pretty close to perfection) is almost impossible. As a matter of fact, if that were true, that couple would have to be living by what God has laid out for the roles of husbands and wives.

Is that not goal and means to the end of this whole series ?


But I tell my friends that I am cancelling because of some other reason (sick, broken faucet, whatever). I do this because I dont want them to think that I dropped them because I wanted to take care of my wife's needs. No. Instead, my sacrifice has to be public. I tell the guys the truth...that my wife needs me, and I'll catch them next week. Simplistic example? sure, but I think you get the point.

sounds elementary to me...tell them the truth....
uphold the marriage in honor.
be proud that you want to spend the day with your wife...

your example sounds like you don't WANT to be with your wife and would RATHER be golfing...
some spouses would RATHER be with their spouse than be golfing....


ARK^^

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I am so enjoying this thread Mortarman, I sure wish I didn't have to wait till tomorrow for the woman's side hehehe.

-ds


Dorry (aka Deeplysorry)
me FWW - EA/PA fall of 2004
FWH EA/PA late spring 2005
Got our acts together July 2005 and started recovery.

The Recovery Guide for WW's (Wayward Wives)
Dorry's Story

[color:"blue"]Excuses are easy...change is hard....[/color]
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