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NC

You do realize that when you splain things to me I need lots of pictures <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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In simpler terms, you have said "My partner's happiness is what makes me happy


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their sadness makes you sad.

If I "give" coditionally then I do it unconsiously or I do it because I ain't perfect. I am getting better at it.


Isn't that true for everyone? I hurt when they hurt?
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Pep I do want to experience the joy of their companionship and I have. Those moments have been the sweetest times I know. I cannot ignore what has been built within me. Things constructed unintentionally but still apart of me.

I have tried burying them,ignoring them and pretending that they are not there...but they remain with me. I think I can be re-wired and have been re-wired but the old wireing remains.
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Perhaps I am on the verge of some break through I just hope that I won't break down before that happens.

Isn't what we receive from our relationships part of our joy? Our desire to return what has been given to us is our gratitude for being so blest. I get far more than what I am able to give.

Of course these are "ideals" because I can sure shovel the BS too for my own gain. Didn't Paul say, ...I do what I hate and fail to do what is right?(forgive my paraphrase)

OK my head is starting to swell because of over use...I think I need to go soak it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
H

Last edited by Hiker; 05/20/05 04:17 PM.

ME WS
Hiker #1383835 05/20/05 03:54 PM
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Now I'm chuckling. I do a poor job judging my audience. Except for Queen Jelly in Idiotville. Got her pegged.

Do you want more explanation or less? Can't tell if that was serious or sarcastic.

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NC

Sorry I was being a smart azzzz
H

"wish list"...you mean my "hiking list"? You mean you enjoy being miserable too?

Last edited by Hiker; 05/20/05 04:24 PM.

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Wow. Freaky.

No. Look at my post where I wasn't clear (just above). When I typed that, YOU'RE big post just above that only said.

NC

You do realize that when you splain things to me I need lots of pictures <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I mean, there was nothing else there. For a long time, like 45 minutes. Just that, haning in the breeze. So I was confused. And I posted and waited and waited. Then you posted that thing about just being a "smart azz". And it registered on the topic list. So I come back in the thread, and it's like WHOA. That whole post that confused me had a lot more stuff in it.

It has to be Jelly aka Justuss messing with me.

Seriously, I'm not offended. I can get long winded. If I am for your taste, lemme know and I'll tighten her up.

But I have to go now, and see my kids. I'll answer later.

I love being miserable. Always wanted to do the Andes on the solstice. Hear the sun sets like a light going off. Really cool sounding.

Hiker #1383838 05/21/05 05:01 PM
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Pep I do want to experience the joy of their companionship and I have. Those moments have been the sweetest times I know. I cannot ignore what has been built within me. Things constructed unintentionally but still apart of me.

I have tried burying them,ignoring them and pretending that they are not there...but they remain with me. I think I can be re-wired and have been re-wired but the old wireing remains.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Where are you going with this?

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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Pep and NC

It seems the more I try to explain myself the deeper I get.

Pep I don't think I am going any where "with this."

I have been struggeling with being in a "pit". The source for this has been my work and not so much my relationships but when I "get down" I can't always pinpoint the reasons why I am so down I just know I am "there". I then start reexamening everything trying to figure out why I get in such a deep funk. I always go to two places...the A and my alcoholic home life. I forget that the Dr says my problem is biological and not relational. I panic because I don't want to stay down there even though it feels so much like "home". I start running around like "Chicken Little". Now I feel like I have been "crying wolf" and confusing you guys with my babble. Gawd maybe it's old age...do you think?

I think the meds just took a break and today I am feeling much better.

NC
Some of my "trips" I'll probably never do. Mrs Hiker isn't a hiker or a climber and it takes too much time to do the things on my list and spending time with her is more important then bagging some peak. But I can still dream...
Orizaba is the sixth highest mountain in the Western hemisphere at 5600 meters (18,500 ft).
Acongaqua is almost 7,000 meters and the highest mountain outside of the Himalayas. Both are fairly non-technical so they are do-able by an old guy like me. Mrs Hiker doesn't like being miserable and I seem to love rolling in it. My adventures need to stay close to home or be toned down so I can include my W. I have shut her out of too many things and so I look for things that I can include her...

Things that didn't work:
Down to the bottom of the Grand Canyon and back
wife= <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> me=<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

A "short" walk to the top of Yosemeite Falls
wife= <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> me= <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

worked:

A drive to Colorado staying in hotels along the way,stayed at a hotel in Vail
wife = <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> me= <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So I have been thinking. Maybe she'd like shopping for something exotic in Santiago Chile, next to Acongacua, antiqueing in Katmando or perhaps a little Mexican get-away to Mexico City, closest airport to Orizaba. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


ME WS
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That characteristic is that ACOA's are loyal even when the situation does't warrant loyalty or no longer requires that loyalty.

This is truely interesting.

What if you made this slight shift in your mind.

Instead of remaining loyal to a unhealthy person in your life, you instead become loyal to a core principle you choose to support.

Would that work for you?

Pep<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

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Pepper

I guess that is possible...but I really don't know for sure.

I think I have what most consider "core principles" in me. This knowledge along with the characteristics I have listed are "in" me like laundry in a washing machine(I guess). Someone else may have those answers. Sometimes I feel like the duckling that has just hatched and whomever or whatever I see first becomes my mommie aren't you glad I can't see you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Quack quack

Sorry for all the trite similes but I feel like a train that constantly derails and even though I know I am not on the track I keep plowing through whatever gets in my way. I eventually "get there" but there is a big mess behind me. Which brings me to characteristic #13:

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13. Adult children of alcoholics are impulsive. They tend to lock themselves into a course of action without giving serious consideration to alternative behaviors or possible consequences. This impulsively leads to confusion, self-loathing and loss of control over their environment. In addition, they spend an excessive amount of energy cleaning up the mess.


No one has given be the undoing just the diagnosis.

I think I give serious consideration to "alternative behaviors" but obviously when it came to the A I ignored the consequences. At least at this point I feel A proof. I know that the impulsive behavior played a huge part of the A. There was not thought as to the consequences. I did not think, (who thought?) that there would be such a lasting impact on me emotionally, of course Mrs Hiker wasn't supposed to find out. silly me because I knew all of the above characteristics before the A...more confusion and self loathing. I do understand how I am wired so even though there is that part of me that yearns to "make it right" for OW("energy cleaning up he mess") or at least to see that all is OK "over there" I make no attempt to make contact or check up and see that all is well. I realize the consequences. It wouldn't be just end of our M but quite possibly the end of me. So to some degree I have been able to get past those things that entrap me.

Now you almost know as much about me as me
H


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Hiker #1383842 05/25/05 10:01 AM
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Pep

In an earlier question were you focusing on:

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I have tried burying them,ignoring them and pretending that they are not there...but they remain with me. I think I can be re-wired and have been re-wired but the old wireing remains.

I was too quick to answer. I guess I am saying I am not sure what to do or I think I am working towards a solution but I just can't see a possible solution.

and

Quote
What if you made this slight shift in your mind.

What mind? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
H


ME WS
Hiker #1383843 05/25/05 10:21 AM
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I confess ... I am a little lost here friend.

Maybe the first step is to define ONE goal. And make it a little one too. Take steps to get to that first goal. Then do the process again.

The "one bite at a time" method of elephant eating.

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

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Pep

Once again I have managed to confuse. I bet you are glad that you are not Mrs Hiker. No wonder she has this puzzeld look on her face when I leave in the morning and all I am saying is "goodbye".

OK one bite at a time...which end should I start on?

OK I'll take # 13 on first

OK I am thinking: baby steps baby steps
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words to live by .... courtesy of AA

progress
not
perfection

Pep<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

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Pep

I'll have it engraved on the refrigerator...my favorite piece of furniture
H


ME WS
Hiker #1383847 05/26/05 10:15 AM
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Hiker....

"blaming makes everyone powerless"

are you confusing blame with accountability?

if you change the wording slightly like this:

accountability makes everyone powerless

I am just curious how feel about this when the words are changed around.

please consider, then respond

thanks

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

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Pepper

We usually know we are be held accountable. We know that there is something we will need to "remit" at the end of a task weather it is evidence or money.

When we blame we are holding someone responsible for an action that they have not "signed up for."

To blame is to disapprove, condem, and disparage. On the other hand accountable is to be expected to able to answer. It is akin to responsible. To blame is to try and designate someone as responsible when thet are not or they do not want to be responsible.

I tried
Hiker


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Hiker #1383849 05/26/05 04:43 PM
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On the other hand accountable is to be expected to able to answer. It is akin to responsible.

actually, I like this response very much

do you think accountability is empowering?

Pep

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Pepper

I think that accountability can be empowering because the person on each side knows what is to be expected. There may be a danger that the one being held accountable may not be able to live up to the expectations and the person to whom the subject is accountable needs to have a clear understanding of human nature and the peramiters of the task.

Especially after an A the WS needs to realize that they need to be accountable to their BS. One of the goals of course is to rebuild the trust lost in the A. It takes pressure of each individual because the WS now has a valid excuse for turning the OP down should contact resume or as the old desires try to rebuild within the WS. This principle easy easier to write than to perform. If we were not emotional creatures the process would be much easier. If we had no memories of the past the challenge disipates. This is where the support must enter in order to secure the future for the couple.
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Hiker #1383851 05/27/05 10:51 AM
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But Hiker ...

accountability to the self

expectations of the self

are THESE personally empowering TO YOU ???

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

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Pep

Ohhhh

To me. The accountability to self I 'll have to think about that. But my expectations...

k. We judge ourselves harshly and have a very low sense of self-esteem;

People are always telling me that I am too hard on me....
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ME WS
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Pep

Ohhhh

To me. The accountability to self I 'll have to think about that. But my expectations...

k. We judge ourselves harshly and have a very low sense of self-esteem;

People are always telling me that I am too hard on me....
H

can you work it out for yourself so that you feel EMPOWERED instead of dimished by the standards you hold yourself to?

Pep

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