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PD...doing some dating....get talking about common interests, activities, etc. Now, I've been married most of my adult life. Most of my experiences and interests have been done with my ex-spouses. I start to share an example, event, experience,etc., from my life. I don't want to put too much focus on the ex in sharing about myself. But it feels really odd to say "One time I went to ....and then I did such and such". If I'm dating someone who is divorced, they obviously have past life experiences with a spouse! If that person said "I did such and such..", I'd wonder if they did it on their own. Did they share adventures with their ex-spouse?? It's not that I'd go into the details of "my ex said such and such, and and then I did such and such...".

I know this is no big deal compared to life's real problems...but it's caught me up more than one time while dating.

By the way, I don't have a problem with my date referring to things in the plural..."we". I just don't want to hear the details and interactions between the two of them during their experiences together.

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I've stopped and thought about which pronoun (I or we) to use on many occasions too. I have found myself using both depending on the story I am telling and who I am with. Sometimes it only makes sense to retell a travel story using "we"! Honestly, I probably try to use "I" in place of "we" whenever possible, but I don't stress over it. I agree with you though, I don't go into minute details or intimate details about my ex. I just retell travel stories.

Really, I think I'm finally at the point where either someone can handle the reality of the fact that I shared a huge part of my life with someone else, and that included many events that may be described as "we" went there, and "we" did that, or they can't. If they can't handle hearing the word "we" in reference to activities me and my ex did, and can't handle the idea that I did a great many things with this ex (we sure travelled a lot for example), then too bad, so sad, I guess they're not going to be someone I can have a relationship with. I fully expect that at my age meeting someone else, they likely have shared a great deal of experiences with someone or some other girlfriends too. C'est la vie!

Jen


*33yr old FWS *exH is 34, no kids; in April 2005, he finally confessed that he too is a FWS. *We were married for 8 yrs, together for 12+ *D-day May 30, 2002; separated June 1, 2002 *I filed for Dv in Feb, 2004 (tired of waiting for him to choose me over OW) *Dv was final April 19th, 2004
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Oh my! This is exactly the problem I'm having. "We used to go to the drag strip a lot during the summer" is me and my ex. "We went there a couple of times for vacation" - also me and my ex.

I've done nothing special or exceptional really in the years since he left, so pretty much all of my most memorable life experiences had involved him. I don't know how to have a conversation that involves things I did with my ex without saying "we" ... and I can't say "I" - it's just not the way things happened. This is not even in dating, but in just talking - to friends and to the few guys I know that I find interesting and attractive. These are guys I've met since my divorce - guys who are also divorced - so they don't know anything about me except what I tell them. I thought about it after a couple of the conversations I've had with them and realized I must've referred to "we" more than a few times during the conversations. And I've wondered, too, if it is something that will bother people or make people think that I must still be hung up on my ex.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who is thinking about this.

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terri Courage Whatever course you decide upon, there is always someone to tell you that you are wrong. There are always difficulties arising which tempt you to believe that your critics are right. To map out a course of action and follow it to an end requires courage. Ralph Waldo Emerson
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I don't know how to have a conversation that involves things I did with my ex without saying "we" ... and I can't say "I" - it's just not the way things happened.
Why can't you say "I" went to xyz? He went, you went, you both went - they are all true.

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I thought about it after a couple of the conversations I've had with them and realized I must've referred to "we" more than a few times during the conversations. And I've wondered, too, if it is something that will bother people or make people think that I must still be hung up on my ex.
If you said it often, it would make me think you are still hung up on your ex, as if you still consider yourself part of that team.

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I've never really thought about it, but then most of the things I've done in the past consisted of doing them with my children and other friends as well, and not just or even including my ex-h.

I also know that my husband had a life before me, and many of the things he did included his previous wives and their children, his friends, his FOO.

So "we" could be seen in a variety of situations.

"we went there on vacation" who is we? it could be my FOO, it could be me and my ex-h, it could have been me and some friends, me and an ex-boyfriend, me and my kids.

So really it shouldn't matter, if you use 'we' or not. If someone inquires as to who "we" is then you could tell them.
I guess if people assume 'all' of your life experiences and such consisted of only you and your ex, then they really don't understand the context of a whole person.

I guess when I was dating and sharing experiences I didn't just share about my married life. I included things from my childhood and adult single life.

My husband and I both share things with each other about things in our past marriages and other past relationships, we both understand it's the past, and we both have good and bad memories of those times, and by sharing them it helps us to know each other better.

So even in the early part of your dating, share things from your childhood and memories you have from then, then when you say 'we' it could have been you and your bestfriends from high school or college, you and your grandparents, you and your boyfriend from before you married, you and your FOO. Each of those memories are a part of who you are as a whole, and you shouldn't feel uncomfortable sharing YOU with this new person, even if some of those memories include your ex-spouse. you see, all of those experiences helped make you who you are today.


Simul Justus Et Peccator
“Righteous and at the same time a sinner.”
(Martin Luther)
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Oh, I hadn't even thought about asking this one here, but I should have. This one ends up being a big question for me too. Not so much about things like vacations and such. Those are easy. Most of the time I just say "I" because it saves explanations. If I do say "we" and someone questions who the rest of "we" was, I just say my ex. No big deal.

Where I tend to have more problems is in talking about things that have carried over into the present. For example, the cats. One of the cats I have now was adopted when XH and I were still married. The other one, I adopted on my own recently. So, I find that when talking about Bambi, I tend to use "we" a lot, but when talking about Peter, it's "I". This seems to confuse people, even people who know I'm divorced, and ends up requiring at least a brief explanation.

I'm just now beginning to understand why those who keep the house when they divorce change so many things in the house. Sure, part of it is re-asserting individuality, and trying to make the place not have so many memories. But I've just recently gotten to the point where I want to change things in the house radically, and it isn't so much because of the above reasons as it is that it's much easier to tell people why I decided to do something a certain way in the house than to try and explain that yes, something was done rather incompetently or wasn't thought out very well, but that's because my XH did it that way, and I just hadn't had the time/inclination/money to go fix it yet! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I think for me, too, one of the big problems is - I tend to be extremely honest. So, even though I know it isn't a big deal, saying "I" did something feels dishonest to me when it's something that "we" or "he" actually did. I know that generally, the people I'm talking to don't care - it's mostly just small talk anyway, and saying "I" instead of "we" doesn't change anything about the story in most cases. But somehow, it still feels dishonest to me, even though it doesn't matter. Therefore, it really takes some effort for me to remember to say "I" instead of "we," which means I frequently slip.

I guess explaining the situation isn't such a big deal, except.... most of the time it ends up treading back into territory that I'd rather not traverse right then. Saying I avoids that problem, but ends up being awkward at times, and frequently makes what I'm telling dis-jointed. And saying we means I end up talking about my XH far more than I would like, and sometimes makes it sound like I'm not quite over everything yet, when really I think I am, and would rather not have to talk about him.

I hope that made some sense - it's hard to generalize some of the stuff, and trying to give examples would get too long. Suffice it to say that there's a lot of things that, when I get questioned about it by well-meaning people, I end up sounding like I made a lot of really stupid decisions if I say "I," but trying to explain that they were either my XHs decisions or decisions I made because of him just leads to long, drawn-out discussions about him that I would rather not have.

I guess I don't have any real answers, I don't think there are any good answers. It's just one more piece of fallout in the mess that's left behind by divorce.

What really gets fun is the fact that I have stayed friends with my XHs mother. We agreed at the beginning that we could stay in touch and remain friends, but my stipulation was that we wouldn't talk about XH (I mean, no matter what he did to me, she's still his mother, so it isn't fair to make her feel as if she has to take sides.) That, at least, has gotten a lot easier since my XH quit contacting me. When he was still contacting me, I had enough trouble dealing with the garbage he pulled that it was hard to concentrate on anything else. Which left me nothing to talk about with her when she called!


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This has also been a problem for me. I don't try and hide the fact that I did many things with my ex, but I don't advertise it either. If it is natural to include her in the story I do it, but I try to emphasize the 'I' if at all possible. For example, I will say "I prefer Rome to Paris", or "I ate in a fabulous trattoria in Florence." This is true because it represents my thinking and my experience. The fact that my ex shared it with me does not alter what I did and what I though about it. On the other hand, if I talk about raising the kids, then 'we' makes a lot more sense at times.

One thing I have done is try to build new memories and events without her. So, despite the expense I have traveled to Europe again without her. I have moved things about the house so they are different. I have bought new things. I am trying to build an interesting past with less 'we' and more 'I'.

Overall, I prefer not to bring up the ex unless I have to. She is out of my life, I am no longer in love with her, and I really enjoy these modern, independent 50-something women. They are interesting, attractive and very sexy.


Just another guy exploring middle age.
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JE,
"We" and "I" are pleased that you are enjoying 50 something-year old women! In such a youth oriented society, this 50 year old woman is glad to hear that there is at least one male who appreciates us! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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I think for me, too, one of the big problems is - I tend to be extremely honest. So, even though I know it isn't a big deal, saying "I" did something feels dishonest to me when it's something that "we" or "he" actually did. I know that generally, the people I'm talking to don't care - it's mostly just small talk anyway, and saying "I" instead of "we" doesn't change anything about the story in most cases. But somehow, it still feels dishonest to me, even though it doesn't matter. Therefore, it really takes some effort for me to remember to say "I" instead of "we," which means I frequently slip.

This is EXACTLY how I feel about it - and to be honest, it really doesn't bother me if this aspect bothers others... if they have a problem with me being truthful about the circumstances in which things in my life occurred, then it is likely that we wouldn't be a good match, and we shouldn't waste each other's time.

T


terri Courage Whatever course you decide upon, there is always someone to tell you that you are wrong. There are always difficulties arising which tempt you to believe that your critics are right. To map out a course of action and follow it to an end requires courage. Ralph Waldo Emerson
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If the story makes sense with an "I", where leaving XS out of the story doesn't have an impact on the story, I use "I"

If the XS was a part of it, I will say "we"...

It's story-based situational adaptations


43yr old FWH who has rediscovered morality Divorced: 03 February 2006 XW: My threads say it all "Well, I guess if a person never quit when the going got tough, they wouldn't have anything to regret for the rest of their life..."
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I am 42 and beginning to see that women my age and older are REALLY attractive! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


43yr old FWH who has rediscovered morality Divorced: 03 February 2006 XW: My threads say it all "Well, I guess if a person never quit when the going got tough, they wouldn't have anything to regret for the rest of their life..."
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I have the same problem, and am excessively focused on "honesty" also. But not really an honesty issue, is not dishonest when I or we both apply (unless you tried to conceal a previous marriage/relationship). What I have decided to do, is avoid any references to previous relationships (and I am divorced also), unless relevant to the conversation. Referring to a previous spouse does make one seem not ready for a new relationship, so why do that? Saying I went to disney world, and really enjoyed xyz is fine, no need to say we, or me and my ex went to disney world...if they want to know such details, I will comply if asked, is up to them, (or me if asking about them) and that makes more sense when you are trying to develop a new relationship.

Personally terri, I would have 2nd thoughts about you if you insisted on that kind of honesty, seems obsessive, not really about honesty. I really don't think people want to be reminded of our past relationships in every conversation. I did see one woman for awhile who was a widow, she would speak of her deceased H when talking about things like a business they owned, or things about the kids. She expressed concern to me I would be upset by this, and I reassured her was fine. Other things she spoke of, she just talked about herself, and that was for the best.


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Whoopee! Another 40+ yr old male that appreciates women his age or older! Thanks WHnowBS!

It can get pretty discouraging on the dating sites to see how many 45+ year old men who want younger women....late 20s, early 30s. I can understand to a certain degree if wanting to have children is a concern. I think, however, that having a younger woman on the arm of a middle age man can be a real ego boost for him.

This is particularly a sore wound for me. At 47 years old, my xWS had an affair with an attractive 21 year old. They met at an AA/NA meeting. He started out "just trying to help this young girl who had nothing in life." She ended up pregnant. Talk about a middle-aged woman's worst nightmare! It's not like I could "compete" by being young again. I couldn't have more children because I had my tubes tied a few years ago. Both my xWS and I agreed that we didn't want anymore children.

Now my 50 year old xWS has a 3 year old son with special needs to help raise. Of course, he has the help of his 24 year old immature, self-centered, impatient OW! Nothing like trying to keep up with a toddler! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Sorry I got off topic! But did want to let you guys know what an ego boost your comments have made. Maybe I should start a separate topic on this....but I don't want to push my 50 year old luck! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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I think age attraction is probably a sign of stability. I am 53, and only date women over 44, a woman in her 30's or younger has little in common with me, so no real attraction. The widow was 48, and found her very desireable. I know of other men my age who pretty much date in their age bracket, think it is common actually. Frankly I would turn down a young woman taking an interest in me, just too weird.


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To me, women in their forties are not in general any less attractive than women in their twenties. Most women in their twenties seem too shallow or irresponsible or just...young. I don't want to feel like the wise old man in a relationship; I want an equal partnership. And I can't imagine getting an ego boost out of having a pretty young thing on my arm. As I see it getting involved with someone that much younger would be more likely to have a negative effect on people's opinion of my own maturity than it would be to evoke a "You go, man!" reaction. I don't have those kind of "friends."

Logic dictates that the sensible thing for me to do would be to find myself a nice professional woman near my own age and settle down into a comfortable dual-income-no-kids lifestyle. If I married a young woman who wanted kids, well, I can imagine just a little bit how hard it would be to start raising a family at my age. And I could certainly forget about retirement, especially if the young woman in question was devoted to a career that involved little prospect for making any kind of money. Talk about foolish!

It is kind of embarrassing for me to admit that the woman I am interested in is in her twenties. And yes, she wants children, and yes, she is in a career with little income potential. Obviously, she shows far more sense than me in rejecting the idea of a relationship. And yet...I know what's important to me, and taking the easy road is not it. I want the children, and I have a great interest in her profession, which is how I met her in the first place. I have had a few opportunities to help her in minor ways, and I loved it.

But mine is a somewhat unusual situation. (For one thing, most guys my age who want children have already done the family thing.) Based on my experience of whom I find attractive, I'd have to say that women in their forties and fifties who worry about men chasing after younger women are worrying more than is warranted. After all, would you really be interested in the kind of man who did that? It seems to me that they are just removing themselves from the part of the dating pool which is open to "older" women, where they would otherwise just serve as a distraction from the gentlemen who had a real chance of being good partners.

One caveat. It may be that the reason a man finds relatively younger women to be attractive is because they tend to be more adventurous or less set in their ways. To put it bluntly, if you believe that you are an old woman, and behave like an old woman, then you will be seen as an old woman. This has nothing to do with age; if you get out there and show that you are taking care of yourself and trying to explore and enjoy life, then your attraction coefficient will shoot way up no matter how many wrinkles you may have.


Profile: male in mid forties
History: deserted after 10+ years of marriage, and divorced; no communication since the summer of 2000
Status: new marriage October 2008

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