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Joined: Jul 1999
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Hey folks,<P>There are many of us "betrayers" who feel unwelcome on this forum. There are some of us who have at times felt that they would no longer post or would leave altogether because of the bitterness and hostility towards us.<P>To those of you, I propose this --<P>Ignore those posts that disparage betrayers. Don't read them. Or if you do, don't respond. It does no-one good. Everyone has their own story. You know your own worth as a human being. You know how remorseful and sorry you are for what has happened. It doesn't matter what some nameless person from half-way across the country says about their concept of "you". They know nothing about you.<P>By the same concept, you know nothing about them. They are entitled to their emotions and opinions. They can vent all they want. This is what the forum is for. So what if they cast insulting words? It is their right. Ignore it. They are entitled.<P>The main point is -- don't take it personally. You all post here and get help from others. You also provide some help or insight for others. All in all, it balances out. There is absolutely nothing that we can tell people like elixir or DG99 that will make them change their minds or assuage their anger. But there are others here who are compassionate. And still others who look to us for insight.<P>'nuff said,<BR>--andy

Joined: Apr 1999
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Well-spoken, Andy.<P>I'd like to add a caveat, however. If you're a betrayer whose looking for sympathy regarding your "love" for the OP, or a betrayer who has no interest in helping your marriage, or if you have no remorse for your actions, please go post somewhere else. This forum is for people who want to rededicate themselves to their marriages and to employ the MarriageBuilders principles to build a constructive, loving union with their spouse.<P>I've learned a great deal from truly repentent "betrayers." (you know who you are! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]) I think those of you who have betrayed can be a great help to those of us who have been betrayed.<P>Please don't let the ravings of the angry get you down. Most of them will probably calm down after they've had a chance to process the affair for a while (good God, has it REALLY been 6 months since my W's affair?) [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>I just hope nobody leaves because of a few bitter pills.<P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<p>[This message has been edited by Lone Star (edited September 25, 1999).]

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Yes Lone Star, I agree... Only MarriageBuilders need apply! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

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I appreciate you guys who have come back to the marriage and are working at making it good again... I also appreciate being able to ask a Why question of you, that I couldn't ask my H cuz were too touchy on alot of subjects.. I have also learned compassion and understanding for you, as I have seen you doing your best to get up after the fall, dust yourselves off and go forward...<P>Be yourselves, be open, don't run off, your benificial to us tooooo...<P>cozy

Joined: Jun 1999
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airheart -- Andy -- Thank you very much for this post.<P>As I am sure you know, I am one of the betrayed, and I have learned a great deal from those who post here who were once the betrayer.<P>I think you responded to my W's post ealier today? and I will ask her to read this post as well.<P>I know she is having a very hard time with feeling degraded and belittled by some who have responded to her posts. Together we have come a long way in trying to rebuild our marriage. The majority of the progress I feel we have made together, came about AFTER she started posting here.<P>Anyway, I just wanted to say thank you.<P>God Bless

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.<p>[This message has been edited by Madelyn (edited September 25, 1999).]

Joined: Sep 1999
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Andy,<BR>I have appreciated your responses to my posts. Sometimes it is hard for people to understand the thoughts of the opposite sex. It is inspiring to me to see you try so hard. There are some pretty angry people here that are in alot of pain, but I don't really think they mean the negative things they say. They just need someone to say it to. Thanks for this post.

Joined: Dec 1969
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Andy,<P>Well said. It's hard not to take things personally, for the betrayed and the betrayers. It happens all the time because we're human. If everyone, betrayed and betrayers could refrain from name-calling and hateful posts, we'd all be better off.<P>Lone Star,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If you're a betrayer whose looking for<BR> sympathy regarding your "love" for the OP, or a betrayer who has no interest in helping your marriage, or if you have no remorse for your actions, please go post somewhere else.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I like this and agree. I also agree that the italicized portion could be applied to either betrayed or betrayer. So, I'd change it to, "if you are not interested in healing and rebuilding, betrayed or betrayer, please go post elsewhere. This is Marriage Builders!" [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>------------------<BR>Love is meant to heal. Love is meant to renew. Love is meant to oust all fear. Love is meant to harmonize differences. Love is meant to bring us closer to God.

Joined: May 1999
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Good stuff, all.<P>A suggestion to a betrayer who may be feeling really self-conscious or insecure. You don't have to OWN someone else's anger and criticism. <P>From experience we've had, both Suse and I have had troubles accepting what we'd done to each other. It really is a blow to one's self-image.<P>So, if you and your spouse are truly working towards making your relationship better, please take permission to go a little easy on yourself. You've got to forgive yourself if your marriage is to work. And, I'd be willing to bet your spouse will forgive you before you forgive yourself. <P>Trust can be rebuilt. Suse and I have done it. Others here have as well. Good luck!

Joined: May 1999
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Thank you and all who responded. I truly value the posts here from the betrayers. I have learned so much about how my H might have felt. But, Lonestar is so very right that this bb is for marriage building and there have been a few betrayers that have come here without any thought to rebuilding. Those are the ones who are destructive and should be "shown the door".<P>------------------<BR>Joan

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new woman - For the first time ever, I disagree with you.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>if you are not interested in healing and rebuilding, betrayed or betrayer, please go post elsewhere<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I've been thru the wringer because of what's happened in my life, and even though the divorce has been filed and we are now in couples therapy because of it(W's legal response to the divorce petition was for counselling..I tried for five months to get her to do this), I'm burned out and probably leaning more for going thru with the divorce.<P>Even though I'm starting to feel like NOT rebuilding, I still find the help, advice and experiences of all of you valuable. I love you all and feel that you are friends even though I have never met any of you.<P>I empathize with a lot of you, feel your pain(betrayed and betrayer, alike), and value the give and take here.<P>Please don't feel that some of us should be excluded just because we may not be practicing MB'ing in the current relationship. It's the attacks and name-calling that have brought this issue to the forefront. Let's deal with that and not do what they do and offer generalizations as to who should be here and who should not.<P>Thanks for listening......

Joined: May 1999
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Andy,<P>You have helped me see a lot of things from the other side. So have many Betrayers,that I will not name. I think you just have to overlook the mean ones and take whatever it is that helps you and kinda ignore the ones that hurt. Easier said than done at times but thats what I try to do. It would not be the same if it was just the betrayed.

Joined: May 1999
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I remember my feelings when they were more raw. They are still a little raw, but I'm healing over the infidelity much better, and now working towards fixing the problems that caused the infidelity.<P>But in my Junior days when I was much more raw, I remember posting to a depressed person, and really caring about this person, and even prayed several times for this person.<P>No mention was given to me about whether she was betrayer or betrayed. After about 5 of her threads, I realized she had betrayed. <P>I told her my shock. I really thought the only people who were "given" permission to be depressed, upset, angry, etc..... were the betrayed. <P>Can you imagine this? Well, yes it's true.<P>I have come so far, and opened my mind up so far, and have grown to love the posters, regardless if they are one or the other! It's just that we are all learning, growing, recovering, and keeping on keeping on at such slow paces. <P>And sure, I stick my foot in my mouth probably more often than anyone (except carlton YUCK) but, nobody is perfect and we all make mistakes, it is what you do with the mistakes we make and what we do with our choices as we go on living in this life. I believe we can all make it, here.<P>AND please, forgive me for my self righteous attitude - I know I have had it, and I apologize. Truly apologize.<P>TNT

Joined: Dec 1969
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Heartpain,<P>I don't consider that in disagreement with me. I was just pointing out that both betrayed and betrayers need to keep in mind the purpose of this forum. I'm not for excluding anyone. I was just adding an addendum to Lone Star's post. I guess I could have worded it better. <P>I agree with you.<P>TNT,<P>You're completely right, we're all human and we should all try to remember that when we bump heads from time to time. It's gonna happen.<P>------------------<BR>Love is meant to heal. Love is meant to renew. Love is meant to oust all fear. Love is meant to harmonize differences. Love is meant to bring us closer to God.

Joined: Aug 1999
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andy,<P>I guess there will always be those who jump in here just to vent and spew... at least that's how they begin. I'd like to hope that with time they will find some peace in their situations.<P>The thing that jumps out at me most in posts like these is this:<P>Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.<P>As betrayed and betrayer, I now (unfortunately) realize what my H went through. You never, ever EVER know what you'll do in a given situation. You may THINK you do, but believe me, you don't. Patting yourself on the back for passing up that sinful act? Don't worry, another chance to mess up will come along soon enough.<P>I love everyone on this board like family. I can't imagine not being here, not sharing, not praying and caring for people here.<P>Thank you one and all... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>------------------<BR>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<BR>

Joined: Feb 1999
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Remember a long-ago thread entitled "we're all bozos on this bus"? [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] Somehow that popped into my head reading this thread!<P>I think this forum is such a wonderful place & a wonderful way for people to learn - I've learned so much here - even about myself! It gives a chance to learn about "the other side", and to realize *we're all just people*. It even gives us an opportunity to get a glimpse of what we *don't* want to become...embittered...stuck in anger like concrete. And to learn how to avoid that.<P>This place is a real mind-expander - which in my book can only be a good thing. It is so wonderful to see people make progress over time. I'm continually amazed at the compassion I see here. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>------------------<BR>~suse~<BR>Rome wasn't built in a day.<BR>

Joined: Aug 1999
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Hey. Good insight!


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