Reborn, I didn't think you were talking to me & I don't have a SO that I hang around with as he does his thing. I was giving examples of ways people may be spending time together but not feeling good about it. So, no, nothing was taken the wrong way. smiley face here if we could use them on quick reply

I directed my comments to you because it sounded to me like you might expect a woman to fit in your life exactly the way it is now without you having to find a way to work out time issues. Time may not be an issue for you. For example, in my case, I can work someone in because I haven't booked every moment of my life as some people do. I understand not wanting to give up yourself, you shouldn't, but there must be a happy medium, some where between giving up all your activities to giving up none.

I agree with Justin, I would hope I wouldn't want to give up my time with my SO for a knitting class. Maybe I'd be happy to be a mediocre knitter instead of an excellent knitter so I could spend time with someone I love. I'm not a knitter, just an example.

I'll come back and try to answer the question (even tho I'm not a guy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ).

But, sunny, you've asked several questions the last few weeks, regarding your unhappiness with your guy. Why are you with him? What do you love about him? What Needs does he meet?

You don't have to settle for someone that is not making you happy, and ... you shouldn't try to change him. I struggled with many of these questions for a while with my BF (SO .. whatever) that I've dated for 2 and 1/2 years now. I finally felt at peace when I decided he wasn't for me, and to break up. We still see each other, but there's no commitment, and I'm looking for someone else. I may find someone else that better meets my needs... or he may change (his choice.... no pressure.... but the things that need changing are changable, and really need changing for HIM... and for any future relationship) .... or our lives may change so that one day down the road we may "fit" better. But I HAD to let go of my expectations for HIM to meet my needs. He CAN'T. So, we see each other a little bit now, and appreciate each other for the needs we CAN meet, and I'm looking for what else God has out there for me, or we'll see if things change for us. I think bottom-line though, is the pressure is gone because I'm NO LONGER expecting him (actually, both ways) to meet all my needs.

If you can't be happy with your guy, why are you with him? Be satisfied with the needs he IS meeting, or move on.

hugs,
Faith1

I think I am mixing up my responses with other posts I have read nams.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Could this be the early signs of Alzhiemers or Partztimers?

I'm too young for that.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"]GDP,[/color]



[color:"blue"]This is the way I feel also. Although I would have to add that if there was an outside relationship that involved heavy drinking, cursing, and foolishness, I would have to add that most couples would consider the outrageious person(s) "not value added" to the couple's relationship scenario.[/color]



[color:"blue"] This is truly a very spiritual way of looking at it, and I agree that it would truly be a beautiful partnership. [/color]



[color:"blue"] I think that we should expect that some of these things would be things that our SO would also be interested in doing with us as recreational activities - I guess a really lucky person would find that their SO would do all of these things together with him. I can't see anything wrong with that unless the 15 hours "needs fulfilling" time also fits in with the activities and time for children if any.

V. [/color]

[color:"blue"]nams [/color]



[color:"blue"] I think for him those relationships were not very important although one lasted for four years. She had a lot of good qualities and I think he tried to care for her in spite of very obvious differences in some areas. [/color]



[color:"blue"] I have been feeling like I've taken back place to to his schedule, I'm sure you've read my previous posts. [/color]



[color:"blue"] He's not a bad person. I think that somewhere in his mind he was thinking that he would find someone that would perfectly mesh into his lifestyle and he would just include that person in his life without any real change on his part.

V. [/color]

[color:"blue"] RebornMan

I too have given up everything in the past. It is a major problem of mine - to let myself be subsumed in a relationship. I too decided that I would develop outside interests and that the relationship should not have to provide 100% of my ENs. That is a big burden for one person to bear for another.

If SO has a big need for socialization - and I would say that you might have this the way that you like to volunteer and coach, then you might want to include in your activities an SO that would also enjoy those things. That would essentially supply both of you with a RA that satisfies you both to some extent, but it is not necessarily time devoted to one another. It might be a heightened experience because of the fact that both of you are present, but the love units deposited (satisfaction?) are not necessarily directly deposited by you? After all the socailization may take place with others there or enjoyement of the activity and not direct interaction with you. I might question whether this would be considered couple time in the sense that Harley describes it - he discounts movies where the focus is on the movie and not each other, wouldn't that also exclude activities like this where the focus is on the kids and not each other?

I like that you would consider cutting back and I don't think that there is a way to stay "yourself" and give up everything that is "you".

If you can do all that you do and still have 15 hours a week to spend fulfilling your SO's needs exclusively, then I would say "go for it!"

Compromise is the key to everything - and the willingness has to be present in both people to make (and even consider) necessary adjustments.

V.[/color]

[color:"blue"]nams [/color]



[color:"blue"] I agree - as a relationship progresses you should find that both of you WANT to spend increasing amounts of time together. I guess one of my concerns was that my SO was starting to spend LESS time instead of more time with me while all the time telling me that he missed me and wished he could be there... (I'm like Piccard "make it so" then) [/color]



[color:"blue"] Exactly what I was thinking. [/color]



[color:"blue"] Yes - there were plenty of opportunities for us to join others socially, but I felt not enough time was being scheduled for just the two of us. [/color]



[color:"blue"] This I absolutely believe.

V. [/color]

Hmmm... I don't think that "personal enrichment" should ever be discarded for a relationship. Should you give up your educational goals because of a man or a woman? I think that's foolish. I don't want to be saying when I'm 85 and my SO is gone ... gee, I wish I'd finished my degree instead of giving everything of myself up for my marriage.

We have to remember that we are the only person we can guarantee will be in our lives every single moment of it. We're not talking about planning for our next divorce here - we are talking about maintaining our individuality within the context of a healthy relationship. Our SO might be taken from us by a terrible accident tomorrow... not just by divorce or break up.

I think that when we talk about compromise, we should find ways of having what we want and still meeting the needs of the relationship. I think there is a difference between a guy "needing" to have drunken parties with his buddies every weekend and a guy "needing" to work out every day for an hour. The first is simply selfish, the second is good for his physical and mental health. And, I think if there were significantly less of the first activity, resentment of the second activity would ease, because there would be more time for the relationship. And, there might be an occasion every so often that could be reason to miss a workout (say, a concert you both wanted to attend, or a ball game, or something that would mean needing that hour to do something special together).

I know that I certainly resented the time my ex took to play golf during the one day he had off more because he couldn't be bothered setting aside any of his time for me no matter what I wanted. If I wanted to take a vacation day on a Monday, he would not make plans with me because he had to golf with his buddies. EVERY Monday, regardless of what I wanted or needed of him. I am not an unreasonable woman, I would have been willing to compromise - I'll take the first Monday of each month of good weather off and we can do something together all day, and the rest of the Mondays you can golf with your buddies. And, perhaps I'd even have been willing to not have that if he'd have actually come home at 10 pm after he was done working instead of staying at work drinking for 2 hours and then going out with his friends. Little things mean a lot.

Just my ... ohhh... 25 cents <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"] Rebornman, [/color]



[color:"blue"] Personality changes? No of course not. This is an area that can lead to controlling relationships. If a person wants to change, they will. Trying to change someone is trying to control them - and an exercise in futility. [/color]



[color:"blue"] Yes it makes sense that dating should involve this and that it should be undertaken with the understanding that either of the two are obligated to show themselves honestly and be aware that it is only fair that one or the other may decide they don't feel like they fit well enough to continue the relationship. [/color]



[color:"blue"] Well, you could look at it as a test. How willing is this person to listen to any differences and to re-evaluate themselves in order to fit your desires. Not necessarily someone who would subsume themselves, but someone who would be willing to compromise. [/color]



[color:"blue"] No one thinks you should give away part of yourself. There is no benefit in giving until you feel resentment, which I think would naturally follow any giving that is not enthusiastically adopted.

V.[/color]

In part this issue is dependent on the details, and definitions. There is nothing particularly sacred about personal enrichment, and giving up something that was enriching is perfectly ok, and healthy. We all make such value judgements everyday. The issue is really about how highly you value "marital" type life, a couple life, being one and all that stuff...if you do isn't pursuing that "ENRICHING"? If instead, one values many other things more, than you literally have no resources to vest in an enriching couple relationship. So first, IMO a person has to have a very direct talk with themself, and what their life goals are. If the marital goal is on the list, but number 6 or 7, it is highly unlikely you will have much success with it.

Using the example of school/education, giving that up for a marital opportunity is fine, and can be a great choice, marriage is not a wasteland, there is much growth one can experience, and actualization one can accomplish. On the other hand, if giving up school meant not using your brains anymore, that would be a bad choice.... If however, your goal is to have a college degree (for whatever reason), and that means you will keep a relationship in a secondary position, than stay single, and only casually date, cause you are unsafe emotionally (assuming commited relationships only succeed when they are the primary focus of both parties, something I think is clearly true).

But, I personally don't think personal enrichment and relationships are mutually exclusive at all. IMO most any "enrichment" can peacefully coexist with a safe/healthy couple relationship....as long as radical honesty, POJA, and rules of protection are in force.

[color:"blue"]Terri,[/color]



[color:"blue"] I agree that I gave some things up when I was married and again when the relationship with SO deepened. There has to be some priorities, though, and unless your family is somehow abusive, it probably should have been negotiated that you spend some time with both families. I can understand though how if one family has event and the other doesn't how it can become habit that you only plan for the events? [/color]

[quote}I don't think that it was ever intended that either party in a marriage should give up who they are for the marriage - what's the point of being a couple if only one person matters? That said, I do believe that there are compromises that can and should be made in committed, long-term relationships. [/quote]

[color:"blue"] Yes it should be that both parties are satisfied and both compromise. [/color]



[color:"blue"]Things are looking up. We had time this weekend for some talks and he was distressed to think that he was somehow being neglectful. I think that he was still somehow hopeful that he would meet some super-woman who would accept all his self-acknowledged flaws and adopt his lifestyle en toto. I simply reminded him that he had admitted in the past that "no woman would ever be OK with his lifestyle, and that after a year of observing, I had to agree - no woman would ever accept it, or at least I couldn't.

V. [/color]

[color:"blue"] Justin,[/color]


One of the things that makes for a good marriage is being able to tell what is how important to who. And then working things out.

[color:"blue"] I agree - there should be an element of intuition, if that is what you mean by "tell what is important to who(m)". What if your SO is not that intuitive?

V.[/color]

Intuition is not required, nor should be expected, but certainly the more in tune people are the more satisfying the relationship will "feel". Harley makes it clear (and I agree wholeheartedly), that the key to "knowing" is proper application of radical honesty. That committment and skill is far far more valuable and important than "intuition". One of the precursors to troubled relatioships is the expectation someone should just have somehow "known" something...is a recipe for disaster, as well as manipulative controlling conflict.

very well said knight!

sunny, you said yourself that SO was "distressed to think that he was somehow being neglectful". He didn't know! Communication .... honesty.... it's the only way. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"] Faith [/color]



[color:"blue"] I guess that I am in the point in the relationship where the negatives started to outweigh the positives. When we are together we mesh very well and I am very fulfilled and happy overall. The length of time that we are apart seems to factor into how happy I am when we are not together. At the beginning we saw each other on Mondays and Wednesdays and weekends (fri sat & sun). Then he was scheduling activities for weekends and we saw each other maybe an hour here and an hour or two there on weekends. Then he took on a new project and was working Monday nights (and he thought it was ok because I had to taxi kids on Mondays and was not able to be at his house. Then he had whole weekends when friends would stay the entire weekend and there was no time when there weren't others around.

All of this was not necessarily simultaneous, but overall it led to days and weeks at a time when alone time was only an hour or two a week. Followed by maybe days when we had entire Saturdays or Sundays alone. What I think happened was that the inconsistency of the time periods started working against him and I would get very low in love bank deposits and the time together would be times when I would be so low in positives that I didn't even want to accept the new deposits. Mix that in with a few misunderstandings of him "forgetting" obligations or plans having to be cancelled because of my children and I started to get in the frame of mind that since I had obligations that couldn't be overlooked or rebooked with the kids that perhaps he should be more careful to count every minute that we had as precious, and when he didn't I was upset. [/color]



[color:"blue"] We have had some really serious discussions recently. He made a huge LB a couple of weeks ago, and I was so upset that I didn't answer his calls until the next day. He was so upset at the thought that he had really lost me that he really woke up to the fact that "we" are not to be taken for granted and that I could and would walk if he crossed certain boundary lines.

I had been waiting for him to follow through on things that he had said he wanted to change in his life. I realized that when he says things sometimes, he is waiting for me to approve or disapprove. I take people at their word, and when he said these things I assumed that he would either do them or not do them. I wanted to see what he would really do. He knows now that he is not making me happy by continuing with his previous lifestyle choices and that I will not be satisfied with being taken for granted as an add-on to what he has been doing as a bachelor. I have fought my accommodating nature and not been there when he was busy with other things - I made myself busy with my stuff.

In the past I wanted to be with him and would be totally available whenever he had time or be at his house while he did other things. I kind of forced him to pencil me in as an activity or I would not be there and he respects that now more than he did when I was a doormat. [/color]



[color:"blue"] He meets many of my needs and we are so compatible it is scary - like - we both say the same thing at the same time - scary. I am so steeped in MB philosophy, however, that the necessity of time (The Gift of Time) is not something that I'm willing to compromise.

If after a year of exclusive dating he is not willing to try and see me at the very least the same amount of time, but seems to want to schedule [i][b]less [i][b]time, then I am out the door.

The good news is that he immediately responded with several changes and compromises.

I think I got a live one here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

V.[/color]

[color:"blue"] Terri [/color]



[color:"blue"]I would think that educational goals could be value added to a relationship. The increase in income would certainly benefit both of you if that was the goal of the education. Now if you were taking Ancien Mayan Pot Making Artistry for enrichment and had no intentions to do anything but relieve your own boredom, then I think that your efforts shouldn't interfere with time that could be spent enriching a relationship. JMHO [/color]



[color:"blue"]Yes I agree. How will basketweaving classes help you survive the death of a spouse? Gaining a degree in a marketable field would ensure that you would be financially stable in the event of your spouse's demise - something your spouse should understand and advocate. [/color]



[color:"blue"]I agree. Things should be weighed with the relationship in mind - not just personal edification. My guy has both examples evident. He would want to have a party on the weekend and would be busy all week with extra money making opportunities. In his mind he deserved to kick back on the weekends, and since he lives alone, what could be better than to surround himself with a houseful of people to feel less lonely with? In my mind I've been waiting all week to see him, mindful of his money obligations, then resenting a houseful of people when all I wanted after a week of taking care of children was to kick back and enjoy some quiet where no one needed anything and I didn't have to worry about taking care of someone.... [/color]



[color:"blue"]Yes they do. I wonder if he ever realized how much damage he did to the relationship by refusing you the gift of time...

V. [/color]