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#14303 09/26/99 09:30 PM
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Hi everyone.<BR>I've been thinking ( yeah I do that sometimes [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] )<BR>I've been thinking about what happens to us when we find out about the affair. How at first we can hardly believe it, and how we lose our self confidence, and look for somethign to blame it on, and really "dislike" (didn't want to get any stronger [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com])the op, and how we sometimes get so mad at our spouses, and how sometimes we just can't believe they could have done this to us... and how we're just looking on the wrong places! Infidelity seems to be more about how our relationship, our marriage is doing prior to the affair, than about how wrong or "evil" or spouse or the op are. We have the proof here, look at all the wonderfull people here that are the betrayers as well. It's not how bad they are, is how unfulfilling the relationship ( for various reasons and many times without any of us noticing ) became to the point that the affair happened. <BR>And so we use our energy to be upset about the whole thing, and to think why did this happen to us, or why did he/she do this - I did that too! - instead of focusing it where it should go: repair whatever damage in our relationship that might have in one way or another lead this person we trusted and loved to do something so painfull. <BR>One of the things I noticed when my H's affair was discovered, which was right when it started, was the pain I could hear in his voice whenever he was talking. I soon realized my H was hurting too tremendously, I just couldn't figure out why. After all he was the one creating the whole situation, why should he be in pain? Well I was focusing on the affair, not on our life before the affair. Of course I couldn't see it. When I looked back, many things started to make sense. Many things that should have been discussed earlier, but hubby being who he is, was never able to put it in words. ANd then I could understand his pain. Gee, we had been quite distant for a while. There was no time together as a couple for a while. The financial stress we've been going trough got us apart instead of bringing us together, we both reacted to it in different ways and each one of us ressented the way the other one was dealing with it - still we never said anything -.Sex, which was something important for both of us, had decreased to 2 or 3 times a week, sometimes even less - specially after I started taking my medication -. Since I couldn't take anticonceptionals, and we already had to kids, and no financial conditions for a 3rd, sex was not only less, but also not as free as it was before. SHould I continue ? There were so many thigns not going well, and we were so wrapped up in many crisis at the same time, we never noticed. Oh yes, we still acted nice to each other, and we still looked and acted so much in love that even friends used to joke with us for it, they used to call us the permanent honeymooners, but behind all that there was a lot not working that well.<BR>I hurt a lot when I found out about the affair, but we both were hurting a lot way before that happened, we just never figured out why, or even realized it.<BR>And no, none of those things justifies the affair, but yes it did help a lot. If a relationship is healty and things are working well, I'm convinced most affairs would never happen.<BR>What I'm trying to say is: we have to look farther back than the affair itself. And concentrate on that rather than on the affair. That's were we have to start working. Hopefully, it would still be "fixable", , and I'm pretty sure our spouses want that as much as we do. The problem is that after all that happens with the affair, they either feel it's no use, or that even if it works it might happen again, or they just don't know how to get back on track. That's where you need to help them.<P>I wish you all happy recoveries [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] and focus on ther right places.<P>Take care<BR>Kat<P>------------------<BR>Each and everyone of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought, and the gift of understanding.

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HI Kat,<P>I love your psot and think you sound pretty darned "positive" which is a good sign. My problem is that I can't go along with what you are saying. I went through all the emotions you mentioned-in fact I am still going through them and it has been darn near 4 months since discovery.<BR>The first thing I did was ask my H "WHY". No answer. I have asked that question till I am blue in the face-and still no answer. A mutual friend that has helped both of us in this ordeal has told me that H might not know why as of yet. Excuse me??????????? I just don't get it-there had to be something. But anyhow-so far no answers. I have tried so hard to look back and try and see if there were problems-but nothing that seemed to be obvious comes to mind. H and I have our little squabbles but we don't fight-we don't threaten to leave, that sort of stuff. We have had a few major ordeals in our lives in the last few years but I always had the impression that "WE" as a team would be just fine no matter what the out come.<BR>My H was a workaholic-he stopped doing his part time job after the discovery of his affair. We have been together for 11 years-married for 10 1/2. He has been a workaholic since day one. When I used to get mad because he would drop any time with me to go to work his mom told me that I needed to realize the people calling him to work weren't to blame it was my H-he made a choice. So I started believeing that-which is in fact the way it was. I used to beg and beg H to spend time with me and the kids-to go somewhere or do something-but work came first. He will admit this himself. Then one day I decided my little ones are getting big enough I can go out and do things, meet new people, whatever. I stopped harping on H but never ever did I stop loving him. I also spent a lot of time on my computer chatting with friends. He now says he thought I didn't love him any more. Go figure. I work my whole life around his mixed up mumbled up life jsut so I can see him some-and he says he thought I stopped loving him. I don't get it.<BR>Also-who does he sleep with on about 5 occasions over a 2 year period? who does he write notes to? Who does he have time for in those two years ? My best friend [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] To give him a bit of cedit here though he does say and I do beleive that she flirted with him and she is the one who initiated it all by asking him to kiss her (on my 40th birthday after she left my house-by the way he wasn't there on my birthday-he was working).<BR>As I write this I can feel the tension building-I want to scream. I tried so ahrd to find a way to blame his affair on myself-but I can't see anything that I had done to account for his betrayal. I am not perfect and do not wish to apper as though I am saying I am without fault. But I tell you all-I loved this man from day one-he was my world. And as much as I appreciate what you wrote I can't go with it. I have to know WHY. <BR>I best get off here before I go overboard. Thanks for listening.<P>*heartache*

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Kat1 - You made some very good points that helped me tonight. I know even in my own situation, we did have a lot of the problems you talked about, but no matter how bad things are, no one asked to be the innocent victim in an adulterous affair. I am so happy you seem to be coping well and I wish you all the luck and peace in the world in working out your problems.<P>Heartache - the first thing I learned was that you may never know why. He probably doesn't know why himself and that is just what you will have to learn to live with. That sounds hard, but that is just how it is. Good luck in finding the answers you crave.<P>dc

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Heartache: I know what you mean. When I look back on my marriage. I see all the sharing and caring we had for each other we did things together and withour family. Then he started having problems keeping a job I kew he was depress about it but I kept trying to support him I would have done anything he wanted to do. I listened to him tried to build his selfesteem, but he just kept drifting further away. I know I finally gave up because I felt like I was hitting my head against a brick wall after awhile you do stop doing that to your self. After I discovered the affair. We did do alot of talking. But he still didn't really listen to me, I didn't put him down, I wanted to be supportive but nothing I every said made any difference. Apparently the only person who gave him support was the OW, but her support was negative. I mean I got the idea that he felt like she was on his level, a failure. That is what he thought he was although I never thought that. He only saw his angry at loosing his jobs. And how other people made he feel. I asked him many times if I did that to him. But he always said I was full of support. I know we drifted a part and I know she saw that he was an easy prey. She had many affairs. I know the angrier he got about his jobs the farther away he drifted. Then he our children left and he became a grandfather. She made he feel young somehting I couldn't do.He seems to think she is what he deserves and I don't know how to fight. I have looked back over my marriage and I know I made many mistakes. But when you can't get through to someone sometime you do start to give up and begin to go your own way. But I never really stopped trying, some circumstance (see fprofile) made things harder. But I still was trying I was just pushed away. I can only hope and pray that he will realize that he is not a failure and deserves much better then the OW. And she is a lowlife he even told me so. <P>------------------<BR>di<BR>

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Hi Ladies,<P>Well, I have to say that I think Kat's scenario is usually what happens and what is needed to be discovered and addressed.<P>I do think that there are times when this doesn't necessarily have to be all that there is to it. I think that there can be factors such as alcohol, drugs, low self esteem, etc that also play a role whether contributing to the above mentioned marriage breakdown or in and of themself. I also think that getting involved with other people and bringing them and their lifestyles into their lives can also lead to affairs.<P>In my case it was a combination of life trauma, lack of communication, depression and other people and lifestyle.<P>I, personally, did not so much go through the self esteem and dwelling on the OP's. I concentrated more on H and the life issues that I felt led up to his bad choices or "escape" as I call it.<P>My biggest problem throughout the last 3 years (six if you go back before infidelity) has been that H did not, has not and probably will not SAY what he feels and WHY he chose to go outside the marriage for a new life instead of turning to me, his partner, to find solutions. Or to even tell me of what he needed solutions for!!<P>Anything I think of for reasons behind his changes are speculation.....I have fixed things that I FELT contributed to instability in the marriage. I have no idea if they are anything that bothered him at all!!! He won't say.....<P>It looks that he is just the type of person that doesn't know what love really is and thinks it's only the initial infatuation phase!! I hope that one day he realizes differently.<P>One can only try to show the difference!<P>Hugs and thanks Kat......<P>Sheba

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heartache,I also though that we were working as a team, so did my H. However, not only we were working together, we were also closing ourselves in our pain or feelings of inadequacy. My H ( and finances were the worse of our problems ) felt he coulnd't provide for us the way he felt he should. When he tried to convey that to me, I ( dealing with my own demons, wondering if I was spending to much on this or that, thinking where I was going to pinch next to have some extra in case it was needed etc. ) only answered superficially. Oh yes, I felt I was contributing, and I was, but we were thinking differently.So he withdrew into himself with his low self esteem, and I withdrew into myself, adding and subtracting here and there. This is only one of the examples. Things don't have to be obvious. In fact, if they were that obvious we would have noticed them. <BR>Funny you mentioning you H said he though you didn't love him anymore. Mine did the same. As we were working different hours and spent less and less time together, I never though about that , but he did. It didn't come to his mind that I wasn't there as much because I was tired, that I didn't wait for him awake that much anymore, because I was exausted. What came to his mind was that I didn't care anymore. Had he talked to me about it at that time, we would have been able to solve it before it reached the point where he had his affair. But he didn't, and I never noticed.<BR>But I am not, and was never my intention that anybody reading my post will think that we should blame it on ourselves. Why should we? And if you read carefully, what I say is that when something like this happens most of the time there are strains in the relationship previous to the affair, I'm not blaming it on us. Actually I always said that the responsability for the affair belongs to the person who has it. What I am trying to get trough is that it doesn't help to only look at what is happening since we know about the affair. There is much more involved in most cases. ANd if we look carefully and with an open mind we will find it. What does that achieve? It takes the focus of what's happening into another direction and we don't obssess over the affair which is just a consequence. Wrong, misguided, whatever you want to call it, but a consequence nevertheless. <BR>Hearthache, sometimes we get stuck into something, many times our pain, and that's o'k. We have feelings and those feelings get hurt. However if we let ourselves get stuck in there forever, how can we accomplish anything? I don't feel my H's affair was my fault. His choice. I am however capable of seing what created such vulnerability on his part ( by the way, I was reaching that point too, so I could have been the one having an affair, who knows?)that he ended up doing something that hurt all of us, something he always condemned, and something he never thought he would do. By doing it he didn't suddenly turn into a bad person, he turned into a person that made a mistake. Understanding this, is part of the solution to get unstuck. And move forward either in direction of recovery , or any other direction that we feell we should take, or that the situation will take us.<BR>You need answers to your questions - all of us do - but sometimes we don't get those answers right away, and many times our spouses can't give them to us either, they're as confused and as taken by surprise as we are. Does that mean that we have to stop there, and not move until we have those answers? It depends on the person, I suppose. I, for one,would rather move on put the questions aside for a while, and work towards my goal. I did keep track of them, and finally got my answers when my H was able to give them to me. it took about 8 months until I had them all. And sometimes I still get one or other, that he wasn't able to ( or couldn't, or felt to scared about) tell me before.<P>No, the affair is not our fault. And yes, they have to take responsabilty for that one. And yes we have to choose what we want to do :move forward or stay there, or give up. Many times we're hurting and thinking about what hapened when they don't even give it a thought anymore. Meaning we're the one's keeping the affair and its power to hurt us alive.<P>dc - nobody chooses to be a victim of something as painfull as an affair ( not even the betrayer ).Was that what you felt I was saying?<BR>There is no choice when life gets complicated, we just try to deal with what comes, and being different people, most times we deal with it differently, and react to it differently. It's nobody's fault that we're working many hours or different schedules, or that there's a lot of stress in our lives. Those are the wild cards. What happens is that those things do have an effect in our marriage that we don't usually think about or are aware of. <BR>Once, while I was sick, I went to the doctor and he suggested that I might be depressed.Why should I be depressed? I asked, I have a great marriage, wonderfull kids, yes... there are somethings that are not at their best now, but that's part of life we're dealing with it. SO he asked me to write down on a paper the main things that had happened in my life in the last 2 years. AS I was writing things like our financial problems , the deaths of both my birth mother and later my adoptive father, job insecurity for 3 years, stress with in laws compunded by the fact we were living basically together, my ilness, my own insecurity with my children due to the fact that I had been adopted and never understood why - neither set of parents was able to explain it to me in a way it made sense which made me fear if I would ever abandon my children as well -, and some other minor things, I just felt that all those things were part of life, part of the things we have to deal with, no big deal. AS he started making marks here and there, and finally told me: You see, any one of the things I marked, are major reasons for depression. One is often enough, specially a death from close family ( you have 2 ) fiancial and job problems ( you have both ), family stress....serious ilness... you have not only one, but almost all of the most important in a space of 2 years. What would surprise me was if you weren't depressed. Not the other way around. <BR>More often than not we don't notice things that are happening or how they're affecting us because we're too busy dealing with them. And as time passes they get worse and worse and we just have no clue.Only when another big crisis hits us ( and what bigger than an affair? ) DO we finally notice. Does that mean we choose to be victims of that? No, it means it just happened. <P>yes I am a very positive person. I feel I can enjoy life better like this. But not everybody thinks like me. ANd that's o.k. too, everybody has his/her way of dealing with difficulties. But knowing what's behind an affair seems to be important to everybody, no matter how they deal with it. <BR>It helps us to see that - on the contrary of what you understood from my post - the affair is not our fault, and has little to do with the person we are. It didn't happen because we're not a good wife/husband, or because we're fat, or too thin, or too tall, or short, or because we're so different, or too serious... no it happened because somehow, either expectations were not being met ( on both parts ) , or life had been quite rough on us lately, or we had no energy to work on it, or any other thing that could happen, and for that reason there were needs not met, that snowballed with time and created this opportunity for someone else to meet them.This works both ways, and I'm willing to bet that in all cases needs were not met on both sides. It happened ( no matter how, or why ) that one spouse breaks down first, and has the affair. <BR>This is why - I think , at least all I've read leads me in that direction - that when one of the spouses has an affair - many times so long ago - that is discovered and is worked on the basis of the affair only, and not the overall relationship, there is more chance that at a later time, the other spouse will get involve in one affair as well,or the situation will be repeated later on by the same spouse. The issues that should have been discussed, or the problems that should have been worked on , weren't because both spouses concentrated only on the affair itself, not what was behind it.<P>many times we have to deal with yet another problem: a spouse that has trouble talking about his problems, his feelings... I had one of those. My H is great in small talk, or even interesting discussions about almost anything, however try to get him to talk about himself, his fears or hopes, his feelings... you better start pulling his teeth he will open his mouth for that faster for that. That complicates the things big time, because we have no idea when we're doing things right or not. ANd we have no idea what goes inside their heads.<P>Also many times, unfortunately, no matter how we try, it still doesn't work. They really did disconect and that seems to be it. <BR>But none of those things invalidates the fact that something wasn't working that well prior to the affair. Either we can find it or not.<P>Take care<BR>Kat<BR>Each and everyone of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought and the gift of understanding<P>[This message has been edited by Kat1 (edited September 26, 1999).]<p>[This message has been edited by Kat1 (edited September 27, 1999).]

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Sheba twin!<BR>I took too long posting my answer, had to go out with my dog in between [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] , so I didn't see you there.<P>There has to be something we can do about those silent types ( My H and yours included ) I wonder if maybe the truth serum or something similar will work? [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>Of course I agree with you that there are situations where other things are involved. I was just talking generally and about the most common cause I could see.<BR>It's just that I see so many people suffering because they let themselves get stuck in the affair, and the hurt, and they either don't allow themselves to see past that, or are not aware that there might be more involved. I'm just trying to get another perspective accross.<P>A big hugKat<BR><P>------------------<BR>Each and everyone of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought, and the gift of understanding.

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Hi Twin Kat -<P>I know - I fully agree with you about most of the situations stemming from this.<P>Another big problem that I am noticing is that with all the concentration and energy going into getting the spouse to want to stay.....the betrayed tend not to think about and/or work through their feelings about the affair. <P>What happens is that the spouse might stay and then the betrayed go through the hurt and anger phases again and the effect is almost like sending them away.<P>Do you see that aspect also, or is it a misconception on my part?<P>I think that the betrayed have to know their feelings and if that love is there then the affair has to be let go and the problems need to be the focus once the spouse is recomitted or even just back home.<P>Something new and useful (like Harley Concepts) need to be applied in some fashion - at least for the communication aspect. <P>Do you agree?<P>Hugs back at ya!!!<P>Sheba

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Twin:<BR>Yes, yes and yes!<P>I feel many people get stuck at that stage, becasue what they are feeling and what they are trying to do contradict themselves.<P>Yes we need do our best to get the spouse to stay, but we cannot supress our feelings for long,they have to come out. Idealy this should be addressed since day one, but since in many cases at that stage the other spouse couldn't care less - lala land rules - we should at least make sure that we aknowledge those feelings are there, and that we will have to deal with them soon. AVoid lovebusting is a good idea, but not everybody can talk about their pain without getting a couple out in the process, and that's o.k. too. I found that most lovebusting that is not done with the intention of willingly trying to attack the spouse, but just comes out of our frustration doesn't usually have a negative effect. It's when it's done in a larger scale, involving other people on purpose, with a mean spirit and plain notion that we are hiting below the belt, that I see it creating a problem.<P>It is very important that the betrayed is conscious of his/her feelings, and his/her limits. ALso although I think it's important to change what we can that was creating a problem, we shouldn't go overboard and turn ourselves into someone we are not. This will not work in the long run and it's unfair to us or our spouses.<P>Have a good night, twin<P>Kat<P>------------------<BR>Each and everyone of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought, and the gift of understanding.

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Kat...I needed to see this this morning. I slept badly last night and my mind went places it souldn't have been.<P>We should have seen my H's affair coming a mile away. Moving to a new state, getting pregnant, very little intimate contact, an ever widening distance between us... My H went to that seminar in AZ starving for affection and attention...and he found it. <P>I do not fault myself for the actual encounter he had...he made a choice fully aware of what he was doing. But both of us contributed to the unhappiness, the gap between us...I filled it with my friends and my pregnancy, he filled it with her.<P><P>------------------<BR>Joan

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Hi Kat,<BR> I agree with you on some points but do not agree that if things were"good" there would be no affair. I have come to the conclusion (and this is what Frank Pittman in Private Lies says) that sometimes the marriage is good ,the betrayer starts into an affair(there will ALWAYS be temptations, no matter how good the marriage is and some in "good marriages"will partake)and then the marriage starts to fall apart.In our case I feel my H became depressed and the affair was a "fix". I tried to be his cheerleader but somehow that was not enough. Sometimes it is the needs thing but I firmly believe not always.......Lu

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Here are some answers to "Why" that I came up with in the absence of a response: (anyone else have them?)<BR>1-H is insecure and needs me to validate him and I was forced to be in another country.<BR>2-H confused sex with a feeling of validation. He needs female validation for some reason. Has more girl "friends" than guys. <BR>3-H was horny and did not consider my feelings. Someone else was horny and did not consider my feelings.<P>Some of them may seem a bit shallow, but are we maybe making this a little to complicated and clinical. Sometimes I just get angry. I'm sure if my husband read any of this, it would all seem so corny to him. I don't think I can save my marriage alone. I don't know if I have the energy to try. I'm angry that I'm supposed to find all this energy and he just wants to forget the affair ever happened. He knows that our relationship isn't working the way it is, but I don't think he is going to change. I can't do it alone and I'm afraid I'm going to have to leave him for my own sanity.

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Hey Ladies,<P>Thought I would post because I am one of those betrayin husbands who did not have a clue why I had an affair/s...and it wasnt until I went thru intensive group therapy and lots of counselling and doing different courses over a period of time did it become clear and some of the fog lifted off my brain..<P>In my case it was only when my W and I were the closest and things were fine and sex was good between us that I would go to another lady...??? seemed ridiculous..??? and then I would tell my W afterwards thinking that I was being honest..??? duhh....!!! mystified me too because I never mistreated her in any other way...anyway she left me..had enough of the pain after quite a few of my affairs...and she took up with a friend of mine...<P>The pain of separation drove me to therapy Thank God...I wanted to end my life I felt so bad..and not knowing why was just terrible...my counsellors never let up on me and finally we got to the bottom of it all...<P>I had a fear of intimacy....when I was 7 my Mom met a guy (my Dad was killed WW2 when I was 15 mths old) and married him when I was 8...he was a sadist extremely brutal and cruel...and used to beat me and my brothers...I looked to Mom to save me, my only link with safety and the only great love I knew and she couldnt (at that age I didnt know how frozen in fear she was of him) she just looked on...my heart broke and I never trusted another woman again, such and angry little boy, and of course had a great fear of loving or getting too close to any woman all buried deep in my subconcious with brick walls all around it...<P>Yet I have a deep loving nature and got absolutely besotted with girlfriends and fascinated by women....<P>I loved my wife with a passion so could not understand why she would leave me...I loved her so much could she not see that..? <P>I was too deluded to see her pain...she was suffering for something that had nothing whatsoever to do with her...seemed so cruel...and I was totally unaware...<P>When she and I were the closest I would be closest to my painful buried memories and I would have to put distance between us to feel safe so would go have sex with a lady and come back and tell her and watch her break her heart without feeling a thing...only a slight satisfaction that I never understood....<P>Many tears , many heartbreaks later, many forgivings, many understandings, much communication together, much sharing, much unravelling later, much hard deep inner work, much committment, much courage later, much patience, much honesty, much truth, much soul searching , much work, much openess that...we got it back together...(Took 6 mths off to do this almost fulltime and it was hell) <P>Brings us to this point in our lives where I can say we are the happiest, we are the most joyful, we are the most loving, we are the most caring, we are the most trusting of each other, the most understanding, we are the most peaceful we have ever been and could ever be..... <P>We are better off for the experience and have gained so much strength, so much wisdom, so much compassion, so much love and care for ourselves and others, and so much more faith trust and spiritual essence that my cup runneth over....<P>I would not swap one bit of my life for something easier and nor would she..it was thru those difficult years that we have what we have now and neither of us regrets any of it...<P>Hope my story here helps someone in some way...<P>Highest Regards and Love...<P>cossie<P>------------------<BR>To know who you are is to see who I am....<P>

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Cossie-<BR>Your story definitely helps me. I agree w/Kat in concept, the practice is what is so difficult. (and I think that is the point! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]) <P>I believe that one person can SAVE a marriage, but it takes both to KEEP the marriage. After my first discovery, I tried everything to save marriage. Suffered the humiliation of the continuance after discovery, dealt w/the mixed emotions of my own feelings versus what was needed to save the marriage, etc. He finally ended it but he did little to keep the marriage and WHAM! two years later, he's at it again. <P>My H has had 3 affairs and while I may not have done everything right, its difficult to know what is wrong when he avoids any type of conflict w/anyone. I believe my H's "baggage" goes deeper than just what I am not doing...but he refuses counseling.<P>I'm wondering if dealing w/multiple affairs requires a more intense or modified approach than usual? <P>

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Hi. I understand what you are trying to say. And I agree each one of us is unique and so are our situations. Dwelling on the affair itself is not going to get any of us anywhere. It order to make a marriage work one need to learn from your mistakes and the H/W mistakes and go on from there move forward and not look behind except to make sure you don't repeat your mistakes. To dwell on the affair will cause the wound to fester, you need to let it go inorder to heal. When one can do this then one can work on saving the marriage and make it work. I have not tried to deal on the affair itself. I feel that my H went off the deep end and is emotionally ill. You don't get angry at someone who is ill, they can't help their illness. I don't think he even really knows what he is doing. You help the person who is ill to get well and that is my goal. The only problem I have is how to do it, specially since he has left. I think I always knew that inorder for him to get better he was going to have to leave that he could not let go while he was still at home. So in my head I know that this probably was the only way, for any hope of his getting well. But the problem is that I only hope that it will help, I am afraid that this illness will be terminal to our marriage and that scares me. <P>------------------<BR>di<BR>

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Kat, <BR>Thank You for starting this thread, I think it is a good topic.<BR>I think that there has to be reasons for the affair, if people will look hard enough, they will find that there was something missing. If a spouse says there was nothing, than why would anyone want to be married to someone who would have an affair like this?<BR>They have a reason.Something was missing.<BR>HEARTACHE: I worry about your situation,you need the answers in order to heal.<BR>You say you did not sense a problem big enough---- maybe he is not sharing his feelings with you about what was bothering him?<BR>My wife used to spend alot of time at work too, it was like home was the last place she wanted to be. Yet she never stated any dissatisfaction in our marriage. She too did not know WHY she had an affair. Did I want to be married to a woman who chose not to come to me with her feelings of dissatifaction, and who did'nt know why she had an affair?<BR>NO! What is keeping her from doing this to me again? If she couldnt figure out why, then what will stop her? Also, Heartache, please do not give him any credit for not being the one to ask for the kiss. He would not have responded if he did not want to.<BR>An alcoholic is a alcoholic, no matter who opened the drink! I hope that you find the answers you are looking for, I can relate to your story.<BR>COSSIE: thanks for sharing your story, and your honesty. I hope your marriage continues to flourish [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<BR>Ian - still trying to understand

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Hi everybody [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>Lu: AS I said to sheba I was generalizing, because the majority of cases seem to follow this rule. I'm not excluding any other cases that might be completely different from this,I wasn't just addressing them here. I was very carefull to say very often, or in most cases, I think. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] It his not only the needs thing, and even in my generalization there ar many cases where communication is not optimized just that. No matter what the reasons, as soon as the affair starts things get really complicated, with all different kinds of fellings going around , and all that comes with the affair.<P>Cossie, I always love your posts. They're honest and show youa re a caring person no matter whats hurt you had in the past. There are somethings that even the person that went trough them can't gasp without help. I'm glad you found that help as I am glad that you and your w can feel happy again. You deserve it. <BR>What I'm going to say doesn't really have anything to do with your story, but reading yours reminded me of it. As you can read in my post, H and I went trough a lot of stress, worked together trough most of it, the hard parts too, and even people sometimes would ask how we could do it, without straining the marriage. There was no affair then. I think we felt responsible for fighting together when things were at their worst. ( Yes the drifting apart was starting, the "disconection" was starting but we were still figthing together. It was when things started to get a bit better that the affair happened. When I stopped taking the medication, when our finances although not out of the read started to give signs that there could be some improvement soon, when we started having some more time for ourselves... why? I think in our case it had to do with something like relief. We had stuck together trough the worst, but now things showed they could get better, and we could relax and thing about us as individuals, the storm was passing...time to be a bit selfish perhaps? The damage was there even though we didn't notice it since we were to busy trying to keep afloat, and when we found out it didn't have to sink ... it really went to the bottom! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>Enlightned, it's because it is so difficult, and it requires a deep understanding of ourselves and our spouse, that unfortunatelly many marriages don't survive at all. When we get stuck and can see no hope, the reaction many times is to quit ( did I fell like quiting sometimes [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] )<BR>And I agree with you. One person can start steering in the right direction, but it takes both working together to keep it in that direction. That's why I usually make the emergency room analogy. When we find about the affair, many times our spouse is not willing to even consider tht the marriage can survive. SO we have to be like the medical crew in the emergency room, and many times by ourselves: Assess the situation, repair major damage that presents a life threatning situation, patch up the rest the best we can, and let it recover enough for us to work on the rest that needs to be done, this time with the patient's consent and cooperation. Both spouses have to agree that working on our marriage is a daily necessity, and do it.There's the only way to increase the odds ( or beat them ).<BR>And the multiple affair cases seem to be another variation that might need a different perspective or assessment. But as I said there are so many different situations! <P>Again what I really want to get accross is that we have to get past the affair if we want to move forward. And I know this is difficult, even I didn't mastered it yet, sometimes things happens and my first reaction is linking it to the affair, When there's no kink whatsoever. The good news is that you can control what comes from your thoughts and reactions. I usually don't open mymouth untill I count to 10 ( actually I count backwards and in any language I find more difficult so it gives me more time [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] Most times I'm able to rationalize things before they get out of hand. And of course being prepared is important so things don't surprise the good sense out of us [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<BR>Take care<BR>Kat

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COSSIE-<P>Thanks for your response. I appreciate hearing all sides. I keep hoping to read the magic words that will suddenly heal me.<P>IOH-<P>You are worried about me? LOL-thanks-it's about time someone worries. Trust me I havent given H any creidt for not being able to say NO. I have told him so many times-if only................... I am fully aware that it takes to to have an affair. He so easily could have said the big N word and maybe nothing ever would have happened. Too damn late for that now though :-((<P>Thanks for the posts tho-it does help.<P>*heartache*<P>LOYALTY IS NOT A ONE WAY STREET

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Hi Kat1,<P>What has helped me a lot in overcoming my insecurities my pain from infidelity and things I dont wanna face or dont like is adopting the belief (regardless of being right or wrong) that we invite everything into our lives for us to learn and grow from....I did this to give me back power so I could do something about it rather than to be constantly a victim of circumstance...It changed my world...and gave the responsibility for everything in my life back to me where I could do something about it ....<P>Recently I adopted another one that pushes that even further and gives me hope and excitement for the future...I am not posting it here to get anyone to change or to say its right or wrong...only to share what I did, why and how its affected my life....<P>I have made myself believe that we have contracts that we set up with perpetrators Hs Ws OMs OWs our children their children our families and anyone else who is involved in whatever it is that causes us pain or love or acts of violence even.... in fact anything that happens in our lives....long before we are born and we come here to carry it out to learn and grow from and to raise our vibrations in higher conciousness....and we make these decisions from a position of pure love for the benefit and learning of self and all...<P>I did this to make some sense for me of all that happens on this planet....<P>How its affected me is profound...it has changed my outlook on life to more tolerance...more loving...more open to change....more understanding of myself my journey and of others and how they relate...I feel differently...I am more intuitive somehow...its still unfolding but I have a deep excitement that I have no idea about...and its been there ever since I adopted this belief...bout 2 months ago now... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>Enlightened:<P>I agree it is difficult to fix a two way thing with only one participant...sorta like trying to clap with one hand...<BR>Guess it then comes down to what you will put up with in your life...if you can live with it being the way it is and can find a measure of happiness in that then I guess you will continue the way you are....<BR>If not then you will change your life and either live without someone in your life at all or find someone else in the hope history will not repeat itself...<P>Sometimes a relationship is over....and your foot gets sore from kicking a dead horse...??? <BR>You cannot fix his stuff for him...he wont go to counselling...??? may be time for him to have a life without you..? and who knows without you keeping the hearth warm he may come to his senses and do something about the deep unresolved issues from childhood that motivate his behaviour..? who knows..<P>Best wishes to you all...<P>cossie<P>------------------<BR>To know who you are is to see who I am....<P>


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