Can I just say that I haven't had to deal with lawyers until all of this came about, and I am SO not impressed.

First, when I found out I went to D lawyer...you know she never mentioned the fact that if OW filed first she would get prcedence over CS. Duh, you might want to mention that at the get go. Anyway, we didn't get D....obviously.

Then, the family lawyer, let's not even go there. It was all about what SHE would be comfortable with and father's RIGHTS, I know he mentioned the word, but have still to figure out what those are. She has sole custody and we have limited visitation, but that CHECK sure wasn't negotiable to anyone.

Then today we go to finally put a Will together. H has a 21 year old daughter that was put up for adoption as an infant, who we are now in C with, our 3 children of M and now the OC. I know our situation is "different" to say the least, but they were SO confused. We sta there and spelled it all out to them, you know, like the stuff I THOUGHT they should be making US think about. We got down to, if H,I and CoM all die, how would the assets be divided and she was like, "Oh, what are the chances of that". H and I just looked at eachother. I mean we had a child born with a major heart defect and now an OC. First of all I'm really not considering the "chances" of anything, it COULD happen. I just said, "look, we need to have this spelled out, H's D #1 was adopted and is not H's legal D, and OC is not a child of any M, so if we all decease the division of assets will not be obvious." I mean we wnat to leave something to his oldest D and I sure as heck don't want OW getting it all because she has only living child. Good grief, I couldn't believe these lawyers. All of them acted like they knew less than I did just going on the internet and checking it out.

I learned from my baby born with the heart defect that you have to be your own advocate when it comes to your health (or your child's), and I guess now I've learned that you have to be your own advocate when it comes to the law as well. I am so not impressed <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> No offense to any lawyers out there, but we're 3 for 3 here and I haven't felt "represented" yet.

thanks for listenin' to my rant. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Coldday,
I am going to agree 100% with you about family lawyers! Just one example, of many through our experiences. When my H and I were concerned about the interstate CS issue, we went and talked to the attorney I had filed for divorce with (it was weird, but he still had some retainer $$). We asked all types of questions (my H is an attorney too ,but not this kind), and he said he would have to research the question of OW moving to CA and getting CS, etc. So, he "researches" and comes up with a 50 year old case that he thinks would apply!!! 50 years old! So I go online and spend a couple of hours looking and I found all the new laws and the explanations of them.......so I e-mailed them to attorney and said, "These might be helpful for answering our questions."

He would never respond to us. We'd call,e-mail and he would say he was busy and never call back. He billed us $1100 and he just dumped our issue. I think he was totally embarrassed, as he should be!! This kind of issue SHOULD be his specialty! We never did get any result from him and moved on without him. I made sure several of my friends who were using him knew what a knucklehead he was and not to trust the info he gave them.

Just to continue the rant....he finally refunded the remainder of my $$ (not the $1100) and the case was closed. Just last week I got a "final" bill, and we were billed $37 for discussing our refund and the end of our case and he even billed us for the postage and the paper it was copied on!! My H sent him a "nastigram" and told him we thought it was a joke.

I know there are better family attorneys out there. We should all not be too quick to believe the first things we are told.....especially if it doesn't make sense or they don't seem to want to do much.

Coldday, I hope you find better attorneys to help!! Good luck.


P.S. I am sooo glad I didn't use him in a divorce. My MC knows him and said I would have gotten crushed by my H (excellent attorney) and his attorney in a divorce! I asked him, "Why didn't you tell me he was such a loser attorney?" He said, "I knew you weren't going to get divorced!" I am glad HE knew, because I had filed and thought that is where I was going.

Finding a really good lawyer is hard.
When I was looking for a lawyer after finding out about A ... I talked to a co-worker that was going through a divorce himself ... he said to me ... my lawyer is not good, I'll give you my STBXW's lawyer's # ...

She was the best ($3K retainer fee - worth every penny)... I visited her 02/18 and the divorce was final on 05/19 ... she added in the agreement that I can move to any place I want without xH's permission in 'good faith' that I will keep contact with him ... I also told her that I love xH and I thought he was making a mistake and I knew he was going to be back ... so she added another clause in the agreement that in case we live together again or we re-marry, the agreement had higher precedence .... meaning CS stays in place no matter what ...
After D was final and leftover $$ returned ... she sent all the paperwork to make a will because she knew I didn't have one ... no pressure ... whenever I get to it ...

When xH finally agreed to contact a lawyer to make visitation legal ... he called my lawyer but she said that even when we were together, it would still be conflict of interests <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

So we looked in the yellow pages ... now he has this lawyer ($750 retainer fee), that encouraged him to get information from OW because it would be 'cheaper' for him ... argh! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
and we didn't hear for him in a month ... then he sends a letter to xH to call him to review the agreement ... when xH called, lawyer was out of state for the next week ...
really frustrating <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Good lawyers are hard to find and for sure will cost a lot of money ...

Yep.......most of em' are rotten scoundrels. I have been involved in 5 lawsuits in my lifetime, and have dealt with countless lawyers......I can affirm your impression of "not impressed".

When I heard of a recent colleagues daughter getting accpeted to Columbia Law school I secretely thought;
" that's all we need, another lawyer".

What do you call 500 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean?

A GOOD START. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> It's probably really difficult to handle a person's personal conflicts and come accrossed as a nice guy. Though there are attorneys who just don't do their job well....and unfortunately many end up doing family law by default.

Don't forget there are many many lawyers who fight to represent the poor, prosecute criminals and defend personal freedoms that most people in the developped world take for granted!!

My only feedback on this is that I worked for the head attorney in a "family" law firm dealing with all of this.

I worked there for one week and walked out! I was absolutely disgusted at what I saw taking place (pertaining to separation & divorce) ... especially when they would "meet" each other at lunchtime and "discuss" the case between the H & W and how things would be "handled."

I worked in three firms (two specialties besides this one, in family law), that one, family law, was the worst. I must say, I'm certainly GLAD they invited me to those lunch meetings so I could SO EASILY feel comfortable WALKING OUT!

Dear Coldday:

Well I posted something yesterday but I don't see it. I wonder what I did wrong?

Anyway, I am a legal secretary and have been for over 25 years. A lot of people not familiar with this business don't realize that there are lots of folks out there that don't come to a lawyer until they are in really DEEP. Then when they hit bottom and don't know where to go, they start crying for a lawyer (I'm not talking about family law so much but I'm sure it happens there too).

Another problem I see is that clients either lie to their lawyers or they leave important stuff out. There is a thing called attorney-client privilege so the last thing you want to do is lie to your lawyer. It will just cause problems down the road for you.

The nature of litigation makes it unpleasant. There are a number of divorce attorneys that "stir the pot" and keep it stirred to keep the plaintiff and respondent at each other's throats so that the lawyer has more hours to bill for. Avoid these types if all possible. Ask around. With a divorce rate in this country of over 50% surely you know someone that has gotten a divorce recently. Ask them if they would recommend their lawyer.

When I got divorced, the total cost was $150 for the filing fee and my ex and I split it. Because I'm a legal secretary, I was able to access most of the forms and I filed it pro se. It was surprisingly easy.

When it comes to lawyers, you get what you pay for. The lawyers I work with were all in the top 20% of their law class. We get the cream of the crop here and they are worth every penny they earn. Yes there are some bad apples out there but they're not all bad. Do your research. Once you find someone, check with your local bar to see if any grievances have been filed against them.

Have everything you want put into your divorce decree. This includes health insurance and college funds. Make sure your ex understands that gifts or things they buy their child (like a pair of shoes, lunch $$ or school supplies) aren't supposed to be deducted from the child support they give you. The decree is what everyone will go by later down the road so put everything in writing!

One thing I always remember was some advice someone gave me while I was going through my divorce. She said "You have to love your children more than you hate your ex-spouse."

I hope this helps. Good luck to you.

As a lawyer myself, I wish I could disagree with most of what has been said here - - but there really are many, many lawyers who do a poor job for their clients. And I have seen lawyers who sell out their clients over lunch - it happens, it really does.

Sometimes, however, the reason we don't do as well as we'd like to is because clients are uncooperative (don't communicate with their lawyers or don't tell us the whole story) or because the client simply refuses to listen to what the law is. There are certain principles of law that just cannot be overcome - child support is, sometimes unfortunately, one of them.

In addition, there are many of us who are totally and completely devoted to our clients. There are very few weeknights that I don't come back to the office after I've put my children in bed and work on files until midnight. I also work nearly every weekend, and I provide my clients with my cell phone number so that they can contact me any day, any hour, if an emergency comes up. Unfortunately, way too many of my clients abuse that by calling me on evenings (11:30 p.m.!), weekends, holidays (Thanksgiving at dinner time!) and first thing in the morning (6 a.m.!) just because they figure it will be "easier to reach me then." The kicker is that I have a policy of calling each and every client back the same day they call me, but these folks don't even bother to try during business hours. Apparently, those ones are not concerned about the fact that I have children and a personal life too. I hate to allow a few inconsiderate people ruin it for everyone who uses common courtesy and call afterhours only when it is truly an emergency, but I am considering discontinuing this service.

What I would suggest is do not retain an attorney unless you are absolutely confident that he/she will fight for you. Ask around - sometimes the best attorney is the one who's been on "the other side" of somebody's divorce. Don't pay the retainer unless you're truly inspired by the attorney's passion for justice. A few things to look for:

-Is the lawyer really listening to you intently or is he interrupting you without hearing all of the issues? If you're paying $125 /hour (what I charge) or more for service, he damn well better listen to what your concerns are.

-Does the lawyer make guarantees of what he will or will not do? Any GOOD lawyer will REFUSE to make guarantees - only the shady ones will guarantee a particular result.

-How accessible is the lawyer? If you have an emergency after hours, would you be able to reach him?

-Has the lawyer explained to you exactly what the retainer will cover? Don't think that because an attorney charges a lot, it automatically means they're just greedy - I require fairly big retainers, but I do the work. On the other hand, you should probably consult with more than one attorney in order to find out whether the retainer is reasonable for the type of problem you have.

-Will the lawyer let YOU make the final decisions? Great attorneys give great legal advice, but the client should have the final say. I always force myself to remember that it is the client's life at stake, not my own pride.

Hope that helps a little!
-cd