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#1522335 11/15/05 12:24 PM
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Mulan,

I see that you are posting an awful lot. I'm wondering if something is up with you or if you are finally at the end of your ability to cope.

My husband once told me that what can happen to an alcoholic is that they drink a lot and learn to handle it. Then, all of a sudden, their body can't handle alcohol -- even one drink makes them drunk.

I'm just wondering if you've gotten to the end of being able to tolerate disregard. If so, it may be a good thing.

Take care --

Cherished

Cherished #1522336 11/15/05 12:30 PM
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My husband once told me that what can happen to an alcoholic is that they drink a lot and learn to handle it. Then, all of a sudden, their body can't handle alcohol -- even one drink makes them drunk.

Cherished:

He is right and it is called "alcoholic cirrhosis", and people usually die within a few years therafter. I would surmise to say that the same thing would happen in Mulans case, but that her death would not neccesarily be of the "physical" type.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Some people just don't get it, they don't get it that they don't get it.

I had the right to remain silent.......but I didn't have the ability.
lemonman #1522337 11/15/05 01:00 PM
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Lemonman --

Having been an English major in college, I've read lots of novels. There is a type of character in pre-1900 novels that is a woman who has "nervous disorders". Is it possible that the long-term effect of stress from a bad marriage is a physical disorder that could possibly result in death? Are you aware of any physical disorders that seem to have their primary cause as being prolonged stress? Thanks!

Cherished

lemonman #1522338 11/15/05 01:00 PM
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Thanks for thinking of me. Actually, I am somewhat better. He is out of town now and will be for almost another week. I have other plans. Last week I went on vacation by myself and took DGD2 and her parents to Legoland in California. WH asked not one word about what I did out there and I offered nothing at all. He thinks all I do is sit and cry over him and he sneers at me that I have no life of my own. That's his ego talking. He actually has no idea at all about what I do or what I have planned. He just *thinks* he knows.

He still thinks if he just pressures me long enough I will be forced to accept his single-guy lifestyle and realize that it's really a good deal for me (his words).

He has no idea.

Please remember that I post here for personal recovery, not in the hope of marital recovery. I will not move out of the house while DS17 is here. I have made that choice and I do not ask for any sympathy as far as the consequences.

Yes, when in pain I sometimes try to do something for somebody else. I take folks to Legoland. We have a Disneyland trip planned for February. I do things with and for DS17. I post here hoping it might help someone else.

Thanks for posting to me.
Mulan


Me, BW
WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
Mulan #1522339 11/15/05 01:03 PM
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Mulan,
It does help me to read your posts. If your youngest is 17, are you planning to end the marriage in the near future? If so, when? And are you going to establish no contact with him -- none at all -- if he continues to show no concern about you whatsoever?

I wish you the best. Your husband doesn't seem to care at all about you, and that is a very painful reality to face.

Cherished

Mulan #1522340 11/15/05 01:08 PM
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Please remember that I post here for personal recovery, not in the hope of marital recovery. I will not move out of the house while DS17 is here. I have made that choice and I do not ask for any sympathy as far as the consequences.

Mulan, thanks for the reminder. I think this stance is A-ok actually.

I think it is actually healthier (well, a better word would be, "less destructive") to admit up front that you will "accept" a certain situation and will live with the consequences, rather than delude yourself into looking for outcomes that will NOT ever happen in reality.

What will you do when your son is 18 and moves away to college?

I know when I was 17, being at home and hanging with Mom and Dad ranked about 1,000 on a list of things equally as long.

While I understand and "accept" your decision, I would wonder what will keep you in the home and sham of a marriage next year. Is it fair to say, that if your son does not happen to be a good student and does not go to college and decided to live at home and get a labor job, that that will keep you in the home?

Is that the common denominator in your decision making tree?

I am just asking you these questions, not out of trying to help your marriage (you know better than that.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />) but out of questioning your personal recovery.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Last edited by lemonman; 11/15/05 01:19 PM.

Some people just don't get it, they don't get it that they don't get it.

I had the right to remain silent.......but I didn't have the ability.
lemonman #1522341 11/15/05 01:31 PM
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***What will you do when your son is 18 and moves away to college? I know when I was 17, being at home and hanging with Mom and Dad ranked about 1,000 on a list of tings equally as long. While I understand and "accept" your decision, I would wonder what will keep you in the home ans sham of a marriage next year. Is it fair to say, that if your son does not happen to be a good student and does not go to college and decided to live at home and get a labor job, that that will keep you in the home. Is that the common denominator in your decision making tree?***

Well, this kid scored practically off the charts on his ACT and the major univ in our city is all over him. He is quite mature in a lot of ways and wants to move out anyway -- but even *if* he did not, I will have to leave once he is out of high school because you are right, this is a terrible way to live.

What would I do? I'd get a 2-bedrooom apartment and invite DS to move in with me for a while. He just might do it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> He and Mom get along just fine.

I've also been invited to move out to California so I can be more of a hands-on grandmother. That's another option.

I don't want to be entirely alone. Of course I don't. I really don't think there's much abnormal about that. But I don't have a boyfriend, either, and won't until I am divorced.

Funny thing -- the other day WH was sneering at me because I work at home and am alone much of the time and I don't know anything about the real world and he ought to go get me 99 more cats so I could be one of those crazy old women living alone with 100 cats, since that's how I'm going to end up (according to him.)

I just looked at him very calmly and told him that I was not going to end up alone. Why not? Because I have proved that I am willing to be a caring and committed partner, and there are men out there who would love to not only have such a partner but *are willing to give the same in return.* No, WH, I am not the one who's going to end up alone.

He got a rather strange look on his face and didn't say anything else.

Thanks for asking.
Mulan (who has only one cat)


Me, BW
WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
Mulan #1522342 11/15/05 01:39 PM
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Mulan,

Have you ever thought about the possibility of violence from H? Like, when you finaly start to leave.

He sounds hateful to me. And violent under the surface, in extremis.

How does he treat pets?

Added: You are in my sister's situation, about 10 years ago. It got very ugly when she finally filed. She also put up with it until her youngest graduated from HS. Her youngest is already an alcoholic.

with prayers,

Last edited by Aphelion; 11/15/05 01:42 PM.

"Never forget that your pain means nothing to a WS." ~Mulan

"An ethical man knows it is wrong to cheat on his wife. A moral man will not actually do it." ~ Ducky

WS: They are who they are.

When an eel lunges out
And it bites off your snout
Thats a moray ~DS
Aphelion #1522343 11/15/05 01:46 PM
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Mulan,

He sounds cruel. He doesn't just ignore you. He puts you down. This is his problem. He promised to love and cherish you. Even if there is no infidelity, he isn't treating you as he vowed.

Cherished

Mulan #1522344 11/15/05 01:48 PM
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Hi Mulan,

I too noticed that you have been posting lately and againg. I tend to follow your posts sometimes because our sitches are similar. How is your horse, btw? Haven't seen you at "the stables" (nikko's horsey thread).

I liked your responses on the thread with the 12 points of "thinking" and depression...Laughed (well, sneereed anyway) when I read some of your points.

I too have a "plan" in the (likely?) case that my M doesn't work. But while here (in the M), will continue to try my bestest. Of course there are days that I just give up, but then rally forth again. On the upside, i do really believe my H "Cares" for me in his own way. Just don't think that is gonna be good enuf in the long run...unless he (and I really do mean WE) do some a'changing!

Not that this is my thread, I just do understand where you are coming from...I have always thought that you had a plan and would stick to it. I can tell you that I understand the whole "staying for the kid(s)" thing, at least until you know (and this is a personal decision) that you absolutely can't do it any longer. Or until they (the kids) are in as good a place as they can be, in able to handle the sitch>


~Life ain't always beautiful...but it's a beautiful ride~ -we choose our next world thru what we learn in this one.Learn nothing and the next world is the same as this one,all the same limitations and lead weights to overcome.-R. Bach
Aphelion #1522345 11/15/05 01:52 PM
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***Have you ever thought about the possibility of violence from H? Like, when you finaly start to leave.***

He seems to be the complete opposite. He's never happier than when he can give me the slip, or when I leave for a while (as I did last week for four days and never called him once.)

***He sounds hateful to me. And violent under the surface, in extremis.***

Just pathologically selfish.

***How does he treat pets?***

Same way he started treating me several years ago. He ignores them (one cat and one horse.)

***Added: You are in my sister's situation, about 10 years ago. It got very ugly when she finally filed. She also put up with it until her youngest graduated from HS. Her youngest is already an alcoholic.***

I am sorry to hear about your sister and your nephew. I don't think WH will give a rat's butt when I finally leave. I really don't. The way he looks at it, if I won't accept that a part-time marriage with him is a great deal then I can go to h*ll and he'll find someone who *will* recognize what a sweet deal he's offering.

Good luck to him on finding someone who *will* take him up on that offer. She'll be either a doormat or a prostitute to live like that. If he manages to fool a real woman again, he'll just end up like this again. And I told him that. He just got real quiet.
Mulan


Me, BW
WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
Mulan #1522346 11/15/05 01:58 PM
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***

Well, this kid scored practically off the charts on his ACT and the major univ in our city is all over him. He is quite mature in a lot of ways and wants to move out anyway -- but even *if* he did not, I will have to leave once he is out of high school because you are right, this is a terrible way to live.

What would I do? I'd get a 2-bedrooom apartment and invite DS to move in with me for a while. He just might do it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> He and Mom get along just fine.

So, your decision tree is more based on him graduating high school than him really being "in the house". Ok, sounds like a plan.

Goodluck <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

lem


Some people just don't get it, they don't get it that they don't get it.

I had the right to remain silent.......but I didn't have the ability.
Mulan #1522347 11/15/05 02:03 PM
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Mulan,

I am glad you have a plan to leave once DS is out and on his own.I will admit you are one of a few people here that really frustrate me at your choices but you do sound stronger and I feel better for you knowing you will not continue to live that "life" with that man as you are for eternity.I would also venture to bet your son would be wondering,"What took you so long?"

I do think your WH will have trouble seeing you go though since he will have no one to sneer at and put down anymore.Then what? I can hear the crickets chirping at home now...... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

O


BW(me)40 DDay 10/11/03 Divorcing 'The Reformer'- enneagram type 1 ~Let Higher Minds Prevail~ --------------- ~Life isn't complicated,we make it that way~
Octobergirl #1522348 11/15/05 02:08 PM
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I will admit you are one of a few people here that really frustrate me at your choices

O:

I can understand your frustration. In a sense though, I think it is better to know what you are "buying" than be continually "fleeced". That is the way I look at it with Mulan.

She is an intelligent, caring, and capable woman...She knows that she is getting exactly what she has paid for.

That is far less frustrating to me than someone who does "nothing" and "hopes" for the best, or lives in a cycle of delusion allowing themeselves to be walked over time and time and time and time again (with multiple false recoveries, STD's, bankruptcy, other children, etc... etc..) , in some misguided vow to save their marriage AT ALL COSTS.

Just my unasked for .02.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Last edited by lemonman; 11/15/05 02:09 PM.

Some people just don't get it, they don't get it that they don't get it.

I had the right to remain silent.......but I didn't have the ability.
lemonman #1522349 11/15/05 02:56 PM
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***She knows that she is getting exactly what she has paid for. ***

Well . . . I tend to think I'm getting the equivalent of an empty box of Cracker Jack in return for my life savings, but I get your drift.

Thanks.

And Dr. Lemonman, I think I asked you once before but you may not have seen it: Do you have to dictate your surgical reports? When I'm not writing novels, I am an MT. I have to go back to typing pain managment clinic notes right now.
Mulan (and don't mumble!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )


Me, BW
WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
Mulan #1522350 11/15/05 07:13 PM
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Mulan,
I have read and kept up on your story for a long time. You sound stronger and it is good to have a plan.

I too have told myself that I will leave as soon as youngest is out of HS...if I could just hold on till then....etc.
I thought that would be the best thing.

This spring my SIL left my BIL without warning. Claimed abuse, restraining order, the works. It has been devastating. My niece is going through what kids go through and I was soooo mad at SIL for doing this right before her D 's senior year. How dare she. Raging pist. (the daughter, my niece, is an only child)

Well, then it started to make more sense. We live in a very small town and colleges are far away. It requires the kids to move away...the closest is 125 miles in another state.

It seems to me it has worked out better for my niece to have the support of her family (us) and close friends of all ages as she goes through this, rather than being away at college and getting the phone call that mom left and ain't comin back.

Especially since SIL called my niece the other day (niece lives with her dad as she doesn't agree with what her mom is doing) and told niece, I didn't want you to hear this on the street...I've met someone...he's such a gentleman..but nothing is going on..just friends. Horse pucky. Whatever.

Sounds like you and son can stay in the same town and he will have his support system. That will be imperative for him to get through this.

My niece is doing real well. She was taught well...she's a very level headed 18 year old. Has watched mom morph into a goofball the last few years. She was not totally surprised by the leaving but by the seeming lack of care for her. Oh well, she is doing pretty good...and we see her a lot now and we are getting so close to her.
Sorry, rambling.
Good Luck Mulan. You can do it!

Last edited by marriedandlonely*; 11/15/05 07:15 PM.
Mulan #1522351 11/15/05 07:22 PM
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***
And Dr. Lemonman, I think I asked you once before but you may not have seen it: Do you have to dictate your surgical reports? When I'm not writing novels, I am an MT. I have to go back to typing pain managment clinic notes right now.
Mulan (and don't mumble!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )

Mulan, I recall that I did answer this on another thread, but am glad to answer agaiin here. I surmise that I am not very well liked by the Transcription department. I talk extremely fast, and for the life of me don't know how someone could type the stuff I dictate....Often times, the dictation comes out much better than I dictated it, because the guys and gals who get my reports, now know what I "meant to say"....I try and not give you all verbal diarrhea....instead of listing every Review of system in the book, I just say..."all systems reviewed in detail and are negative"....instead of giving every value of the Chem 12, I just say...chemistry only significant for a potassium of 4.9. I try and slow down, but have a hard time doing so. When I listen back to my dictations to catch where I left off after being interrupted, I sometimes "cringe" when I hear myself and then try and slow down.

I would be fired if I had a job as a medical transcriptionist. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Lem

Last edited by lemonman; 11/15/05 07:25 PM.

Some people just don't get it, they don't get it that they don't get it.

I had the right to remain silent.......but I didn't have the ability.
lemonman #1522352 11/15/05 08:00 PM
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Thanks for the response, Dr. L. I would love to learn to transcribe ER notes. Right now, about all I have to do is spell "methadone" and "Percocet" and "epidural steroid injection" and that's about it. I even managed to find "Charcot-Marie-Tooth."

Back when I was taking my home study class and ran out of practice tapes, I used to record episodes of the TV show *ER* and then try to transcribe the procedure scenes. They always use real procedures and names for things, but the only problem was that the actors all talk at once!

Well, I became an MT because (1) even though I can write computer programs I have no college degree and (2) the novels all sold pretty well but they don't give you enough for a real decent living (most writers, unless they are J.K. Rowling, also have a "real" job.)

Oh, and I became an MT because I will need that "real" job when I move out.

Thanks again - and remember, what kills MTs is usually not technical terms but stuff like "the patient was referred by Dr. Xzyrrgths" and wasting 20 minutes trying to find the spelling of the doc's name!

Thanks again
Mulan


Me, BW
WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
lemonman #1522353 11/15/05 08:11 PM
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My D-day was almost exactly a year ago. My DS#2 was a quarter of the way through his senior year of high school. D-day happened just about the time his football team was in the state playoffs until the semifinals. Then he took his final ACT test which actually came out better than any of his previous ones. He was ranked at the state level in wrestling and finished his season on the podium at state. He did numerous jazz band concerts. He was in the National Honor Society. He jammed continually on the guitar and dreams of his own rock band. He graduated with distinction. His father sporatically attended any these activities.

Sometimes, I ask myself if he could have had a better senior year. DS isn't at the tiptop of his class but he's an amazing all-arounder. It probably would have been helpful to have me be less scattered. We probably could have organized all the college stuff at lot better. He might have been a lot less stressed out. The logistics and anxiety of getting WH to anything could have been less. Of course, I didn't really have a choice about it. I'm not sure any amount of Plan A-ing would bring WH home. He checked out.

On the plus side, DS, DD and I have become extremely close in the last year. We helped each other out. We enjoy each other's company. DS's girlfriend was also very high in his support system. Now that he's in college, the relationship has ended and he really misses her. I'm glad we were here for each other. It was a lot more difficult for my oldest son who is in college in another state. He says that finding out about his dad right before finals was horrible. Our family cellphone plan got a work out.

If you feel it's your mission to stay in your home and marriage until your DS graduates, it's a noble goal. Just don't let it come as a complete surprise to your son. It's quite possible that he will feel very guilty for keeping you in something that is so unhealthy. Sometimes, it goes beyond location.

I'm with you, girlfriend, whatever you decide to do.


Grapes are versatile. Grapes can be sour, sweet, sublime as wine and fabulous even when old and dried out.

Me: BS
XCH: Clueless
2-DS: Bigger than me
1-DD: Now also bigger than me!

5/6: Personally served CH with divorce papers
6/6: CH F? wants to time to see if M can be saved
7/6: FCH reenters our lives to work on marriage but secretly signs papers to start divorce...what's that about?
Mediation set for November
Final dissolution in January 2007.
2008 and beyond: Life goes on...
grapegirl #1522354 11/16/05 07:14 PM
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***If you feel it's your mission to stay in your home and marriage until your DS graduates, it's a noble goal.***

Thanks, gg. I am not trying to be a martyr doing this. I am just trying to protect what is left of my family. Since WH refuses to step up and be its protector, that leaves me.
Mulan


Me, BW
WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
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