I know LL hasn't been back since I wrote, but I definately gave her some concrete suggestions. I've got to say though, that while I did have support from friends who worked in the disabilities community (as did I) none of them knew we had a legal library in town, for example. And when my son tried to hang himself, I didn't need anyone else to tell me he was in deep, deep emotional trouble.

So much written in this thread is pure gold... I just hope LL ***understands*** what's being said before it's too late. And I don't believe it is too late... there is still hope for her daughter, if Mom puts her attention there.

Symphony,


Quite a bit of truth to that. He was a functional alcoholic, but there was a lot of "peace-keeping" going on in our house.

CM & CN,


Delving further into this suggestion: I can lock the doors at night, which I don't currently do because she fails to carry a key. That should stop anyone from entering without my knowledge after I go to bed.

The issue is during the day. She leaves for work after I leave and gets home before I get home (rides with a friend who works with her). How does she get back in when she's done with work? And if she can get in the house, she can let anyone she wants in during the day while I'm not there. So that is where I need further guidance.


Okay, this one seems a bit 'out there'.

becontent,


Okay, I could set a rule that said "You must okay all guest with me before you bring them into my house" Second question: then if I were to find someone there who wasn't "preapproved", do I make them exit immediately or do I call the cops for trespassing?

NBII,


I could beat my head against concrete on this one because no one told me (and I truly didn't realize) that ADHD or ODD fit into the category of things for which the education system could have been held responsible for making special accommodations for her. Granted, they did while she was on the IEP, but it is the discontinuation of the IEP that caused the downfall. However, once she is 16 and has voluntarily chosen to quit school once she was dropped the second time from the alternative school for failing grades, and she's not been on an IEP for 2 years, it would seem rather difficult to force someone to provide an education to someone who doesn't want an education. I understand now that if I'd not signed off on her being dropped from the IEP, that because of her conditions the school would have been responsible for educating her through the age of 18 or possibly beyond.


No, no and no. I'm in my first year on a new job.



Tried it. When her school initially expelled her, before we got her into the alternative school, they provided materials for a class for her to work on through the community college. She was to do the work at home, and then come in periodically for tests. Nothing motivates her to do the work, and you can't physically force someone to do something that they've dug their feet in and said they're not doing. All she'd do is cry or avoid.

But that's off track. I guess my question here is, what are you saying? Are you saying that I should still fight the system to force them to educate her? Or are you just making a statement about what I should have done already?

Right now she maintains that her plan is to get her GED once she's 17 (can't do it at 16 in Iowa). I would still rather she had a high school diploma, but at this point a GED is better than nothing because if she ever got her head on straight, a community college or voc/tech school would accept her with a GED.

Our bigger issues are the living situation that she is moving towards. She just called me to say that a girlfriend of hers has moved out from home and is looking tomorrow at apartments, and she and her BF are looking at sharing an apartment with this girl. WHAT DO I DO???


Two years ago my daughter was "cutting". I was very involved with therapists and at one point thought we had her admitted in an inpatient stay (that would have been a good thing) only to have my insurance company deny her because she wasn't suicidal and kick her out the next day. I ended up fighting an $1,800 claim with the insurance company for one night's stay for a year before I finally sent enough pictures and documentation and won. But that didn't get her the inpatient help she needed. They just agreed to pay that bill. Had she have actually been proven suicidal, we could have gotten some real help. And truly, I DID fight that one. I had doctor records send to the insurance company, the state Department of Human Services was involved, her school was involved. It still proved nothing in the end. Much to the frustration of her psychiatrist, I was told by insurance that she only qualified for outpatient therapy (which like he said, obviously had NOT been effective or she wouldn't have been cutting herself in the first place). Had she been inpatient for a while, they could have done intense therapy AND forced her to take meds and perhaps gotten her regulated. But it didn't happen, even with a psychiatrist on my side. (Okay, that is a soapbox for me...the whole mental health system is broken where insurance is concerned!)


I have fought for my kids, and I have loved them, and I have stuck by them when everyone else lost hope. They know that, and they will both ultimately come to me when they need help with something, because they know I'll be there for them. What I have not done well is the discipline.

Faith,


Okay, I am looking at what was written, and asking a few more questions of people to clarify some of the things that I think I could do right now. I can't change everything overnight. But I am trying to look at small steps.

NBII,



You were very fortunate to have that background. I was a straight-A student. I knew nothing about special ed. I had kids young. I am trained as an accountant. I have no contacts/friends/etc who have bucked the system with an ADHD child. What little help I got came very late in the game from someone I know who has a profoundly handicapped child. The two situations are vastly different, but she gave me enough info that I was able to fight the school and get them to reconsider letting her into the alternative school. What she really needed, in hindsight, was probably to be in a BD classroom. But I knew nothing about any of that or that they even existed, until recently.

=============================================================

Where I'm torn is this: Do I let her move out, provide no assistance, maintain my own home with it's rules and boundaries and pray that God watches over her and keeps her safe until she finds out she's really not a big girl after all and falls on her head, and hopefully comes crawling back home? This is the direction she's heading, and I am struggling to find ways to physically stop her.

Or do I try and find ways to continue to exert force (not sure yet what that "force" is) and keep her living at home? Her therapist was very clear the last time she saw her when she said, "LL there is nothing more you can teach her. She's got it. She just has to decide if she wants to follow it or not."

She just told me on a phone call 5 minutes ago (when she called to tell me about the apartment plans), that she hates living at home and hates everything about me. She can't exactly tell me everything she hates, but says she's been planning this for years, that she hates when I try and push my "religion" on her, hates that I expect her to act like her brother (I have never pushed her to get his grades but I have cited him as an example of someone who has worked hard and been successful in school and told her I believe she's just as intelligent as he is), and thinks I'm just trying to keep her at home so that I don't lose child support, saying she will call her dad and try and get custody changed so that HE has custody, because he'll let her do it (and if it got him out of paying child support, he very well might back her).

It's not simply a matter of keeping people out of MY house, although I agree with that and have asked the further advice of you guys. It's trying to determine how to deal with her moving out. Ideas?


LL

PS..I have a therapist appointment tomorrow afternoon. I'm thinking my daughter's issues should be the topic of conversation, but not sure where to go from there. We haven't really talked much about my history other than she knows I married young, was married for 19 years, I'm divorced and that my ex was an alcoholic. She's really not asked many historical questions except to get the basic background on my intake appointment.

Do I just say "I need help in this area?"

Oh, and just so you know that I truly do read your input and take some of the advice, however slowly it may happen, I have two books on order from B & N:

"Screwtape Letters"
"In the Meantime"

LL

Hi LL,

When my youngest brother was 17, my parents asked him to leave our home. It was the hardest and the best thing they had ever done for him to that point.

He had always been a sweet but frustrating child. Always late for school, never met deadlines, head in the clouds. He fell in with the "wrong" crowd and by the time he was 17 he was into alcohol, drugs and (very much against our Christian beliefs) black magic. He was kicked out of two schools.

Finally my parents realized that, despite their best efforts in concert with the schools and our church, they were only enabling his behavior. We had a family meeting where we all told him how much we loved him, but my parents told him that unless he got rid of all the offensive material in their house and agreed to abide by their rules, they were going to ask him to leave.

He chose to leave and went to live in a group home. He had lofty plans - he was going to go on welfare as soon as he reached age 18 and was going to live the high life. It was the middle of winter - my mom sobbed as she bought him a parka and said, "if I can't keep him at home at least I can keep him warm." His group home was a horrible place filled with other young people who had serious issues. He got scabies.

We all visited him faithfully while encouraging him to make positive choices and come home.

He was out of the house for six weeks. During that time, he began to realize how important his family was to him. He began to realize how important his faith was to him. His homecoming was the best Christmas present ever.

It wasn't until my parents stopped enabling his behavior that he finally turned around. They lovingly enforced their boundaries and he responded.

Today he is married, has a beautiful new daughter, is active in his church and is currently pulling straight As in his university courses.

I think that it would not be a bad thing for your daughter to move out and face the "real world."

Best,

G

1st time - exit immediately with a warning you do not want them in your house. 2nd time, call the law.


My kids knew exactly who was "allowed" in my house. If, however, someone showed up that was not welcome, I would have called my son off and told him the person was not welcome. That would have been the end of the problem, but they knew if the person came back I would tell the person they were not welcome (how embarrassing). They also knew I would have no problem calling the law if they continued to come to my house.

My husband and I both worked, but my sister kept them at my house until they were pretty darn old. When we finally got rid of the babysitter, there was a rule of NO GUESTS at our house unless we were home. It didn't take but once to nicely tell his friend(s) that they were not allowed to have guests if we were not home.



If she wants to be a grown up, let her. Did you read the emancipation laws. She can also request it, and you might tell her if she wants to go she will have to petition the court for emancipation or a change in custody or you will let the court handle her as a run away. AND by all means carry through. She's on her own and there is no revolving door at your house - is there?. My kids knew there was no revolving door in my house. And believe me, it would not be easy to get back in my house and they knew it.

Really, I am not as cold hearted as it might sound. My mother thought we were "too lenient" with our kids, but when we had a rule they knew we meant business. By the way, my mother has recanted and agrees that our method worked. It goes back to the age old wisdom in raising kids and this is to pick your battles. When we "spoke" they knew we were serious.

ANOTHER SUGGESTION:
LL - giving up custody may very well save your sanity. Learn to live without that child support and give her Dad a try. It sure doesn't seem that it could be any worse. I mean come on, she is doing as she pleases right now so what difference if she does what she pleases under her Dad's legal obligation or yours. I firmly believe that you have allowed that child support check to hold you hostage to all sorts of H3ll. It's not worth it!

LL,

G and becontent have very wise advice. There are others who have done this -- if I'm not mistaken, Pepperband on GQ had to do some tough loving with her son. You may want to ask her.


LL, I didn't have the background, I had just started working in the learning disabilities program at the community college. It *became* my vocation and passion, though, AFTER my son began having problems.

I married young, too... had kids young... and wasn't in special ed... and also had no friends or anyone else I knew that bucked the system. It seems to me, LL, that what you lack most of all is motivation to find out for yourself what the best course of action is; whether it's with your daughter or your boyfriend.

Listen, I'm not a harsh person AT ALL. I am not trying to beat you up or rile you... but dang, girl, have you read through this thread? I mean, really stopped and read from beginning to end? You write well, and a LOT... tons of words... but it feels like most of it is spent defending how you feel (which you DON'T need to do) or explaining away the VERY REAL PROBLEMS you (and your daughter) are facing.

Someone before mentioned printing out this thread and taking it to the therapist... or maybe that was someone else's thread (I get confused)... still, I think it would be a good idea.

PS: I could take my own advice here, but I'm gonna suggest that we both quit hanging out in the past and go from this point forward. Doesn't matter what you tried before with your daughter, or with R (for that matter)... time to think about today and what you can do to make things better.

Sheryl, I've missed you..........

LL, You can demand retesting at any time for your D. If you don't agree with meeting in ARD, you mark disagree, and as long as there is a disagree, there will be another meeting and so forth, until you go into a hearing......the more noise you make, the quicker it gets taken care of....school systems do not want to end up in court......

Tiny threadjack... ((((((sing)))))) Hi! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hey, LL, check in with us- are you OK?

cm

Hi CM,

I'm okay. Just been keeping a lower profile on here today. I figured it was good to give people a break from my frustrating pig-headedness for a little while. (Plus, work kept me busy and I had to leave early for my therapy appointment, so haven't had much chance to write until now.)

LL's latest:

Woke this morning with the worst anxiety I've had in days, maybe weeks. And I have no idea why. Nothing has really changed over the last day or so. I had some weird dreams, but they shouldn't have caused it. Anyway, I woke up with tremors and shakes and I was just not feeling right at all. Even taking a Xanax didn't cure it...only took the edge off. It took until this evening for it to settle, but right now I feel fairly calm. It's weird...sort of like my brain just decides to do it's own thing without rhyme or reason sometimes.

DD still thinks she's moving out. I'm not helping her, but most likely not stopping her either. She's apparently called her father who is backing her. I haven't called him yet. Doubt I'd get anywhere as he usually doesn't answer his phone or return calls if he knows it's me. Praying and thinking on all of it.

Things with "R"...no decisions are being made right now. I'm talking to him and just trying to play like no answers need to be found in the next few days. I alternate between being anxious about breaking up and anxious about jumping into something too soon with him. We have no plans to see each other on the horizon. He's not mentioned it, he's sick with a cold or something right now, and I think I'm busy all next weekend between work and taking my son back to college.

Therapy went better today than last time. We talked mostly about my anxiety, what seem to be the biggest triggers, and then got off on 100 tangents about how my mind works in circles and how I have trouble obsessing and talked some about my spiritual struggles. I told her I don't feel much difference with the Lexapro this time, so she has suggested I contact my doctor and discuss it. She also asked if anyone had ever mentioned OCD. Funny, yes, someone on this board did (that'd be LostHusband, if he's reading this). No one else ever has. But she said I might not necessarily show OCD in the form of behaviors, but it could be more of a cognitive thing. My mom does show OCD behaviors, and the therapist said it has a strong hereditary link. She also said it goes hand in hand with anxiety in many cases and that it can also go along with ADD/ADHD (which my daughter has and which I show some signs of). So she's thinking that the doctor may need to look at my med or even that it might at some point benefit me to have a psychiatrist monitor my meds. So I guess in a way I felt like maybe there's hope that someday I'll have my thoughts more in order. She also suggested that I not worry so much about having to take medication right now, or having to use Xanax for the anxiety. She told me that yes, something did trigger it, but that if I have a genetic tendency toward anxiety and depression, that once it's triggered, my brain chemicals can get out of whack and it's not necessarily something I can fix nor is the anxiety necessarily God trying to tell me something (that's what it feels like to me), but that God can work through therapy and meds and other things just like he can work through people. So I'm trying to trust her as the expert. She does seem to be strong in her beliefs and I feel comfortable talking to her right now.

Other than that, I sort of pampered myself a little tonight. After getting my hair cut (and enjoying the awesome scalp massage that my stylist does), I treated myself to a tanning appointment. I'm not one to get much of a tan and generally I don't tan until much later in the spring, but it's been so dreary and cold. I needed light therapy in a big way. So I went to the place where I still have some sessions and found that they are giving all existing customers 8 free sessions to be used during January. I could actually tan every 3 days until the end of the month for free and not even touch the sessions I actually still have there. You may not share my excitement, but it was so nice to just lay there and bake and relax and pretend it was summer for a little while. I can't wait to do it again in a couple days.

And finally, I took a very baby step and called a gym this afternoon to get some prices. I have no idea how I'd afford it. I've never gone to a gym before and am very afraid of looking like stupid. And I have little motivation to exercise since I'm already 10 pounds lighter than I want to be and my clothes are hanging. But I think exercise would help my mood. I know I feel a whole lot better in the summer when I'm out doing things, and it's just too cold to go out and walk or do things outside. So the gym idea came up. I'm supposed to go in and tour sometime this week and they'll give me 5 sessions for free to check it out. They have a "women only" room with cardio and weights, too, which sounded a little less intimidating.

I just want you all to know that as hard as it is some days and as cruddy and lacking in any energy or motivation as I feel, I know I need to do things to take care of me, and I am really pushing myself to do something.

Anyway, that's the update for now. I may feel great tomorrow. I may be a nervous wreck. Each morning is sort of a surprise anymore. Oh, to just wake and feel calm and look forward to the future. That, and to get my relationship with God straightened out, are my goals right now.

Finally, it hit me that this Thursday would have been my 21st wedding anniversary had I not DV. This will be the 2nd one I've passed since the DV, so it's much easier than last year. It's mostly just a date on a calendar now. But last night I did find myself missing the laughter and friendship I had with my ex (crazy as it may sound, we were friends...we just weren't much else). We used to be able to just laugh at dumb stuff together, and we had our own little language, and all that stuff. I miss that. I just don't miss the anger and the ugliness. Oh well, water under the bridge.

LL

Gym is an excellent step, LL!
Together with therapy/counseling and some good books readings, and making some new friends too, and taking a day at the time... might make wonders.
Just be persistant and patient and don't give up!!

Take care

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hugs, THoughts & Prayers

Hi LL,

Just wanted to affirm some of your choices; namely seeing a therapist, practicing self-care, and launching into an exercise program. I think these will really help you with your anxiety. Might not change your life circumstances all that much, but they will help you have the tools to deal with your life as effectively as possible.

I struggle with anxiety, too, to the point where it's become debilitating in the past months. I'm not quite ready to go back on ADs yet as I know that lifestyle choices can make a huge difference. I've started walking regularly and I can't tell you what that does for me. Therapy is a godsend as is learning to be less hard on myself when I don't perform up to my overly-high expectations.

Keep going, LL - I'm thinking about you.

Blessings,

G

You've made a wonderful start, and I hope we can be encouragement to you to continue improving yourself and focusing on your daughter.

cm