My STBXW (court date is next Tue.), came by to see our S16 for his b-day last night. She had him come out to the car with her as she was leaving and they were outside for about thirty minutes.

When he came back in he was obviously upset and it took him about half an hour to calm down enough to want to talk to me.

She told him that she was going to go into court on Tuesday and probably have her kids taken away from her (by me of course). She really broke down in front of him. I have the impression that she told him I was doing what I thought was best for the kids, but then made it out that what I was really doing was punishing her and fooling myself that my motives were good.

He was crying and very p****d off at me. He wanted to know why I was getting a D and why I was doing this to his mother. He wanted to know what she did that was so horrible that I could think keeping the kids from her was the right thing to do. I have never seen him more upset.

I told him that I would be more than happy to talk with him about things, but that I needed a couple of days to get my thoughts together and give him a chance to calm down. He was okay with that and settled down a lot over the next couple of hours.

Now, I have been given a lot of advice about never bad mouthing my STBXW in front of the kids. I am glad I stopped myself from talking about it last night because it would not have been good. But I'll be damned if things are going to go down like this!

For those of you not familiar with my situation:
WW moved out of the house to live with OM three years ago.

This was the second A she had been CAUGHT in, but I quickly found out that there had been several others that I had not known about.

She broke up with OM she had moved in with several months later and has been through many OM since then.

I tried for two years to show her that I was willing to try and reconcile, but first she would have to stop seeing OM and commit to a plan to rebuild our M. She at times expressed interest in the idea, but was never willing to stop seeing OM beforehand.

The custody arrangement is that she gets the kids every other weekend and every other holiday during the school year, and half of the summer. She also gets one evening during the week. She knows that I am VERY flexible with this schedule and I have encouraged her to spend more time with the kids. I just don't like the idea of moving five kids back and forth to each other's houses a lot during the school year. I think it is important that the kids have a "home" and regular schedule as much as possible.

The truth is that my WW has taken this schedule flexibility and used it to see the kids much LESS than what she could have. She has passed on many of her weekends and has NEVER taken advantage of doing anything with the kids during the week. She has consistently blamed me for this even though I have NEVER turned down a specific request by her to spend time with the kids away from my house.

So what to tell my son (and his brothers and sisters for that matter). I don't want to bad mouth for the sake of it but some of these things aren't going to sound good no matter how I put them. I think my WW plans on leaving town if the D doesn't go well for her and I think she will take the opportunity to tell ALL the kids that that's my fault too.

I think I have a pretty good idea on how to handle things, but I know I am very emotional right now and need to hear some more objective opinions!

starman

(((((starman)))))

Starman - Your son is 16, and whether or not you like it, your wife has pulled him into the messy divorce. You need to sit him down and tell him the facts, just like you told us.

He KNOWS you two are divorcing.

He DOESN'T know the facts and has only speculation and the twisting of facts.

You need to explain to him that marriage is a lifelong commmitment by TWO people, not just one person. You need to let him know that adultery is not only "wrong," it is one of the deepest forms of betrayal of a trust that one person can do to another, and to their family.

You need to explain to him how, and how long, you tried to save your marriage and that your wife is the one who has refused.

You need to let him know about the self-centeredness (just like this latest "talk" with your son that you wife had at the car) of his mother and that she has MANY times NOT chosen the children (and visitation) over her own desires. She continues to put herself AHEAD of not only you, but the children as well.

Remember, it is VERY common for children, bereft of the FACTS, to speculate and blame themselves for their parents breakup. Do NOT let them carry that burden. Stop your wife's abusive actions with your marriage, and do NOT let her get away with it with the children so THEY carry a false burden for years to come.

I am NOT talking about "bad mouthing" your soon to be ex-W, I am talking about giving your children the respect of the TRUTH since they are unwilling participants in the drama of of a "so-called" adult.

God bless.

Alright now listen to me. Your children are old enough to see things for themselves - my children did with their father. Do you keep a record and I hope you do of the times she has miossed seeing her children. If not start one on a calender. Mine was used in court and the judge was glad I kept one. I wrote down the times he called and postponed picking the children up and delayed and the reasons. My children knew I had them ready for their visits. So what you need to say is 1. I would never take you away from your Mother. 2. Have I ever tried to stop you from spending time with your Mother? 3. I love you and wish you had more time with your Mother. 4. I did not want things to work out this way. 5. She will always be your Mother and you need to talk to her about seeing her more often.6. Do NOT tell the children about the OM in her life they can and will see for themselves. 7. It is OK for our children to see us as human's -somtimes we cry, somtimes we do not know what to do, sometimes we have to do the best we know how with a given situation. Tell them that.
They youngest one needs to know you are trying for her to see her Mom more often. That yoiu love her and will not leave her or the others. I am sure they are afraid of that. I overheard my son when he was 4 say to a little girl next door that he would M her when he grew up and never leave her like his D did to his Mom. So they know, maybe they do not understand but they know. It is hard and you will be held accountable for the things she says and does not say. I know. I am sure she said somethings to your son that he just does not understand. Nor wanted to hear. She is still and alien. You must be the strong one now and it is hard 24/7 days with no time off. It was great thast you told your son to give you a couple of days to think. I am sure he needs time to cool down as well. He has things he needs to talk about I am sure. God Bless

starman, why have you not told your children the truth? They have every right to know about this and NEED to know it. Their lives are being disrupted by her and they need to understand WHY. Children can deal with the truth, they cannot deal with lies.

You can't have your children thinking you are purposely destroying their lives as your wife has told them.

After you tell your kids the truth, I would talk to your W about the trauma she has caused your son by telling him this. And tell her that you have told him the truth about her. She is emotionally abusing that boy in order to get him to side with her. You have an obligation to protect him from her.

Mel has it down. Listen to what she is saying. When children of age are left oput of the loop they are just like BSs, they don't know, no-one will tell them so their mind conjures up images and a story, just like a BS who never finds out the truth about the A.

ForeverHers,
I will be having a discussion with not only my oldest, but all the rest of them this week. I have to tailor each talk for their ages but I think that just means leaving certain things out of the conversation for the younger ones (for now).

It's very important to me that I explain to my two oldest boys what a marriage is and its importance. It's always something I've believed in, but this experience has certainly made me think about these things in a much more meaningful way. It has strengthened my beliefs in this area instead of diminished them, which is a positive.

realtor,
I have kept a very good journal of the things you've mentioned for the last year and a half. I just wish I would have started it sooner, but her behavior hasn't changed at all so it's long enough to get the point across.

I think you are right about the kids knowing more than I realize. I REALLY get that feeling from my oldest. I know he knows there is so much more to this story. Part of him wants to here it and part of him doesn't, but I agree that the truth is something that should not be kept from him. I just want to do it the right way.

Mel,
I completely agree with you. I have come so close so many times to telling the kids what has really been going on over the last few years. A lot of times it wasn't for the right reasons, so it was probably good that I waited.

The only reason I have waited as long as I have is because SH advised me to wait until the D was final before I got specific about anything with the kids. Didn't want me to give her anything to use against me in court. He didn't want her to be able to make it look like I was trying to manipulate the kids. He does agree that the kids need and deserve to know what has been going on, and after this Tue. We will be having those talks.

Eagle,
That's a good analogy, comparing the kids to a BS. My mind went crazy with images and thoughts, I'll bet my poor kids have been going through the same kinds of things.

Thanks everyone,
starman

Best to explain it to your children as a group. You have a broad range of ages so keep the initial conversation simple. You have not made your children part of your support group and it has been over 3 years. Your children may have felt somethi ng was going on but since you haven't taken them into your confidene, they don't know how to approach you on this subject, so here's my 2 cents:

1. Forget about protecting their 'mother's' tarnished image. She is not their real mom, she is a WS. Expose. Don't bad mouth.

2. 1st let the older one's know you w/b having a family meeting to discuss something very important. Let them know the 1st part of the meeting will include the younger ones so while you know they will all have questions and be upset, the older one's must allow the younger one's the ability to express themselves and all must be willing to help all and that all can be support to all. Utlimately, you are asking for their trust and support which you as a father have been trying to give to them but not able t/d so on this subject w/o letting them know some vital info.

3. Once that has been established, draw your entire family together in an environment where you have give hugs and support as needed. A family couch with lots of tissue nearby w/b good.:

BS: Children, I have called this family meeting to discuss something very sad but very important. 1st of all I'd like to say that I am proud of you children. You are very special to me and well as your dad, I have tried very hard to help you grow up in a safe, loving and happy environment. (see you are setting the stage here). Now I have some questions I would like each of you to answer.

1. How do you feel our family is doing since mom left?

2. Please let me know your reason why mom left.

I want you to answer these questions and then I will clear up any misunderstandings or misconceptions..... ok (ask the youngest to go first - the listen closely and watch their expressions - you may find there have already been many discussions between them about this).

BS: Thank you for your candid answers. This is a painful subject for us all but one we must discuss. I don't want this family to continue avoiding important issues. Now let me explain why mom has chosen not to be here.

(This is where you give the truth, w/o emotion).

Your mother choose to leave because she feels it is more important to be with other men than her own family. I don't condone her conduct just like I don't condone any bad conduct by you children. When you mom choose to associate with other people who don't like to be with their families, mom and I realized she could not be here and be a good mom while living a lifestyle that would hurt our family.

I am sad that your mom choose to live away from us and treat others as more important than her own family but that is what she has chosen. As a result we have to learn to live with those choices but we don't have to let those choices hurt us as a family.

So together, you and I, we are our family. Yes, mom is not here and maybe one day she will come to her senses and she what she is missing by not being around to see you all grow up but we can't control her bad choices or protect her from them.

As your dad, I can and will protect you and love you as best as I can. It is hard for me to. So I ask that you be able to come to me and share with me both good and bad things so I can help you all and invidually make good choices in your life. Ok?

Then I ask that you be my support. Sometimes, I need a hug, sometimes I need a reminder that you love me..... I am and will always be your dad, here for you as best as I can be. (hey, it's ok to cry).

(Now ask for their thoughts - when the younger ones have had their say, dismiss them and if they can continue the discussion with the older ones, either at the same spot or somewhere else.)

There's probably more to be said but I think you can see the direction. Hope this helps.

Remember: NEVER proctect or cover for a WS. Protect and love your W and the children's mother but remember the WS will use your w and children's mother as a shield to allow her t/b a WS. Don't fall for that ploy.

I know you have a hard task ahead of you. Our thoughts and prayers are with you and your family. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

take care,
L.

Orchid,

Thank you for helping me with this. Having the basic conversation with everyone present is a very good idea.

I'm going to write an outline of the things I want to go over and the order in which to do them so I make sure I cover what I want and don't end up on some tangent. Maybe I'll post it here first and get some feedback, like with a plan B letter.

God Bless,
starman