My opinion -- it depends.

In a first marriage -- Spouse.
In a second marriage -- children (if still living with you)

I think in an "original" marriage the spouses should come first with a mutual understanding of supporting their kids as a second priority. Without the marriage being the top priority, the family falls apart. I think that is what happened in my marriage. I definetly was not at the top of my XH's priority list (I'd say I was about #5) And he wasn't my top either (honestly #3 behind kids and work)

Not making your spouse the top priority leads to neglect. And then you're not meeting their EN's. How could my XH meet my EN's when kids activities, work, his parents, and his hobbies were all more important than me?

Ok, so now I don't want to make those same mistakes a second time...but how do you put a new Spouse ahead of your children without causing resentment?
And how do you put your Children first, without causing resentment in your new Spouse?
I have no experience in this; so I'd love to hear from those that have remarried with children / stepchildren in the picture.

And is there a difference in dating vs. marriage?

Thanks!

I think you have to put the team first. Both parties have to decide whether they wish to be on the team.

Me and my fiancee both have kids. Obviously it won't work if each of us puts the kids first, or if we put our own kids ahead of the other's kids.

hey TMMX -- how old are all the kids involved? Do they support the plan?

Hi Lexxxy:

Good topic/good questions. My thoughts:


Agreed in an overall sense.



Don't agree. I feel that spouses should be the #1 priority in any marriage. (For the reasons you state in referring to original marriages.) However our children should be our #1 priority until we remarry - which means that we should never marry someone who is not completely compatible w/our kids. This concept eliminates the possibility of marrying someone our kids do not like; and vice-versa.

FR

Lexxxy,

Thanks for bringing this topic up. I'm very curious to see what others will say.

Now, here are my thoughts, and you'll see that they are different from others (surprise <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />).

I think, the answer is "neither". My belief is that kids and spouses are like apples and oranges - you can have both, and love both, and not have to choose.

Clearly, the couple comes first from the standpoint that if I am planning a vacation, I won't say "kids, where do YOU want to go?", and then inform my spouse of the plans. Or if I am planning a home improvement project, I won't say "kids, what color should I paint the living room?", and then inform my spouse of that decision. Rather, I would POJA all "family" decisions with my spouse first and foremost. So, from that standpoint, the spouse comes first.

Yet, in other ways, I would put my kids "first". If my child has a big school play coming up, I would plan to attend it. I would similarly plan to attend their games, birthday parties, etc - whatever it takes to make them feel loved and valued. Now, of course I would hope to get enthusiastic approval from my spouse on these (heck, I'd want her to attend as well!), but if she in general felt that this was putting the kids ahead of her, then that would be a dealbreaker for me.

Also, I would not let the kids manipulate the situation. If my child started saying that by me making plans with my spouse I was "loving the spouse more than the child", I'd nip that in the bud. We all know how important couples time is, and, like Lexxxy, I believe that it was the lack of it that contributed to the demise of my first marriage - so I don't want that to happen again. But, conversely, if my spouse were to believe that me going to the kids' games meant that I loved them more than her, I'd want to nip that in the bud too.

I have had a couple of experiences with childless GF's, neither good. One was with a woman who adored kids (she wrote children's stories!), and loved my kids. When we started dating, she went out of her way to tell me how much she wanted me to focus on my kids, and that she would never want me to put them second. No wonder I loved her! But, as we continued dating, things changed. She started resenting that I wanted to go to the kids' soccer games when they were with my ex (even though she came along), or that I was willing to "take" my kids when my ex needed to be out of town for something. I think she just did not get the fact that despite being a half-time dad due to custody, in my heart I was still a full-time parent, and these were my kids!

Now, it started similarly with my current GF. G was very into kids, worked at a preschool in the past, and loved learning about my kids. She seems very nurturing. But, recently, some things popped up that puzzled me. First, when I made a comment that I missed my kids (not a whiney type comment, just a statement because I saw a little girl who looked like my daughter nearby), she said that she felt that she should be "enough". Then, when I had a 2 hour activity with the kids on my normally "non-kid" weekend, she felt that the activity took away time from "us", and was concerned about this because I chose them over her. Finally, we had the same issue with my kids' games; she felt that a parent does not need to go to every game. I said that I don't HAVE to go to every game (for instance, this weekend she and I will be out of town, so I have no problem not being able to see the game), but if we are in town and have nothing else going on, why not? We left that pretty much unresolved.

She has the strong feeling that spouses should come first, but I think it is based on her present view of her parents and the "kids", which is silly because the "kids" are all close to 40. Of course when my kids are 40, they hopefully won't need my care, and I would expect that 90% of my thoughts would be focused on my partner. But at this point, when the kids are little, I cannot put them second.

So, I still would like to believe that it can be "both". I can love and cherish my kids, and I can love and cherish my partner, and neither should feel jealous, because it is a different kind of love. But I also don't think that a spouse should be "enough", any more that the kids should be "enough".

OK, I'll look forward to seeing others' inputs.

AGG

When you have kids, you're choosing a parent for them as well as a partner for yourself. I agree with FR. Put kids first in the choice of a second partner so after the marriage, putting the spouse first doesn't mean choosing between your kids and your spouse. I say this as a childless stepparent who was a better parent to WH's son and his niece and nephew who came to live with us than he was.

I agree with AGG, apples & oranges.

This is so dependent on the situation. Neither one should be saying you picked them over me! I'd sit both parties down & explain we are a group that works together to meet every one's needs to the best of the groups abilities. That means every one compromises & each party will sometimes get just what they want & sometimes not.

AGG, I was disturbed to read G said she "should be enough". That's skewed thinking in my book. That & you shouldn't "have" to go to "every game" when it isn't your time. When you're a parent there is no off time. Just because the kids are with the other parent doesn't mean you no longer have any responsibility for them. Again, skewed thinking. Though not being a parent herself I'm sure it's hard to grasp the devotion one feels toward their children.

This attitude would worry me as much or more than the other issues you're currently wrangling with. It comes off as selfish, demanding, unbending, & without a clue what family is about. Sorry to sound harsh, I hope this can be resolved along with the other stuff.

Oh, you bet, this caused some very tense moments. Heck, I had one foot out the door, because there was no way I was going to buy into the idea that I am only to see my kids half time, and think about them only half time. Nonsense. Nor was I going to accept that by wanting to do something with my kids, I was "choosing" them over her.

We had some very long talks about that, and I explained the very thing that you said so well - that I am always a parent, whether or not I have custody on a certain day, and I will always think about, worry about, and miss my kids when they are not with me. And yet that will not mean that G is not adequate for me in her capacity, which is that of a GF. But no, she will never be "enough" such that I will not think about my kids.

I think she understood my position, and her response helped me to understand her. Her concerns were not as much from the standpoint of "her" vs. "them", rather that at this early point, she wanted to have enough time for "us" to build a bond. I can buy that, and for now we are going with it. But, I made it very clear that there is no bigger dealbreaker to me than this, and no woman should ever ask me to "choose" her over my kids. I asked her if she really wanted me to be like the dad in Cinderella, who put the stepmother "first" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. I think she got the message.

Anyway, I decided to attribute this to her cluelessness since she has no kids and never dated anyone with kids. But, it is very much on my radar screen (like I said, baseball season is starting <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />), and I am ready to have the talk again at the first sign of a relapse.

AGG

The way I looked at it before remarrying was that I plan to be married to my new husband a lot longer than I plan to parent my children. Hopefully 30+ years of marriage vs 8 more years of parenting. So, nurturing my relationship with my spouse is VERY important, however, NOT at the expense of my children. It's not an either/or thing. I made it clear to my children that I will spend time alone with my husband and do special things with him, and they won't be invited. THey understand that he is a priority as my HUSBAND, but they are a priority as my CHILDREN. My husband also understands that right now my children sometimes take up time and energy....but in just 4 years my oldest graduates, and in 8 years they will all be (somewhat anyway, lol) on their own and it will be just us.

First, what does priority in this context mean at all?
If you have a baby 1-2 years old and a guy, and the three of you are hungry, and you have only one piece of bread, who'd take that piece? (I couldn't love a man who'd take it all.)
And, if child needs all of it for consequences are harder if left hungry, who has priority - the child or a hungry partner or hungry you?
Or, if you have your kid crying and your man wants cuddling, do you cuddle him or you confort your child? (It'd be morbid if he enjoyed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />)
Or, in the middle of night, you get two calls in row, one from your partner, poor drank needing a ride home, or your teenager alone in the night, who do you pick up?
Or, your man wants eggs for breakfast and the child a pancake, what do you make?
(Me both, I love cooking <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)

What?
When I hear 'priority' word, it sounds to me like one thing excluding the other one. - Doesn't have to be, at all.
And I know that my heart is so big that my beloved ones can get quite enough piece of. Unless they selfishly asked for more and more. (Well, that'd be a good ticket not to belong to 'my beloved ones' though.)
I mean, a partner has to understand that he needs less of my time for teaching him, raising him, feeding him, encouraging, being present, than my child needs from me.
Moreover, a 'right' one would be involved in all of that too, not because I want it, but because he accepts ME, and that means my child and his needs and my role in it as well.
I cannot be, morally nor legally, responsible for a man, but I AM for my child and how I influence his future.

I.e., there is time for mothering, and time for... womaning <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
And time for both at the same time.

Also, he wouldn't have me while I'm at work and he'd accept that, but wouldn't accept not having me during my time with my child? (I couldn't respect that).
The same with the child; (a bigger) child has to accept also that I have my own needs and that sometimes I need that time just for myself (and someone else I love too).
So, 'priorities' are moving back and forth and in ALL directions, depending on daily life situations.
And only their optimal 'switching' makes all involved to be pleased and happy.

However, IF I had to chose, it'd be - my child.

But I don't think I'd ever have to... I couldn't be with someone demanding to change 'who comes first'.

My son's needs comes before my own needs (if both of our needs cannot be satisfied at the same time).
If a partner needs so much to be 'priority # 1', then he needs his mom TOO. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

This shouldn't be an issue, if both parents agree that the kids come first. I wouldn't want to be married to someone who didn't make the kids his first priority.

There is a good chance that a woman will not remain a wife all her life, either due to divorce or widowhood, but she normally will remain a parent all her life.

Ah, when will I learn to say all in just two sentences. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm another one who thinks it's a strange question.

If you're going to be married, to me that means a commitment to be there for your spouse including 15 hours a week UA time minimum, more when things are tough, period. That includes contingency plans for cutting back other things to get that important time in when life gets crazy. If you're not willing to do that, you've got no business being married.

Likewise, parenting has similar commitments. You owe your kids your time and attention in healthy quantities.

If you have kids but no spouse, and you haven't realistically got room in your life to meet the commitments of both, the answer is simple -- don't get married.

Personally, I don't believe children should come first be it in a first or second marriage, especially if the marriage is going to be a strong one.

I'm not saying the kids should be ignored, but at the same time they don't come first.

But then I don't believe kids need to be involved in every single activity out there that take them away from home every waking hour of the day either.

I know parents whose kids are involved in every sport and school activity there is for them to be a part of and then complain they never have a free moment because they are always taking their kids to this activity and that activity.

Each of my kids have been involved in various activities but
not at the same time, where I was running to and fro everyday never finding a moments peace.

There needs to be a balance between family and outside activities, so that the kids activities aren't running the lives of everyone in the household.

If the kids activities are taking presidence over everything in a families life, then the parents need to learn to say NO on occassion, so that the marriage isn't placed way back on the back burner.

Don't believe the lies that kids will some how suffer emotionally if they aren't involved in every activity life has to offer.



make sure you keep schedules balanced. It's more difficult when you have kids living in different homes, and have two parents putting kids into various sports and such, but just remember you may not be able to make every sporting event your child or their child is involved in, if your dating or remarried to someone who has kids not living with you.

It's as if parents have a problem with kids learning how to handle disappointments in life at a young age, the only thing that does is prolongs learning something that will actually HELP them in life.



We make use of the calender, it's an awesome tool for letting everyone know when various activities are taking place, and so that we don't over schedule things where we need to be in two or even three places at once.

Something else that is REALLY helpful, especially as your kids get older and they want to do things with friends, talk to the parents of your childrens friends and make plans for one of you take the kids and the other to pick them up. That way your not doing all the running.


Most certainly, sometimes it's a matter of doing both activities, going to one for awhile, leaving and going to the other. And sometimes it's just a matter of just saying, "I'm sorry, but I already have other plans."

My husbands ex-wife used to be really bad at calling at the last minute to let him know of activities their kids were doing, we nipped that, by explaining they need to let us know in advance when at all possible so that WE can try not to schedule something else those days, it's not always possible because my kids have lives too, but we do try to make it work as much as possible.

That question is loaded no matter what you decide, imho.

I do remember that I told my second H that I would never marry him for the kids, but that I would certainly NOT marry him for the kids.

My kids were 2 and 4 years old when I remarried so it is not like they could voice an opinion when I did decide to remarry.

I mean, what would you do if your teenagers didn't want you to marry someone because they didn't like him/her? If you go ahead and do it, the marriage is doomed from the start. To tell them that they will always come first gives them just the ammo that they need if they want to break you apart.

I guess I wouldn't want to be in a marriage where that question would even need to be addressed.

committed

Regardless of whether first or second marriage -- SPOUSE. The bible says it, so it must be true...

A healthy, respectful, and loving marriage gives children security. If that is a marriage between biological parent and step, then it still lends security to a child's life.

I would also be careful of "only marrying someone your child likes". My friend's daughter was fine with her boyfriend; they got along great. But she always nurtured a fantasy that her parents would get back together -- so when mother and beau asked her if she would like for them to get married, she all of a sudden didn't like him. They got married anyway. Once it was a done deal, she was back to liking him.

A child should know that their NEEDS will always be most important to their parents (AND their stepparents, if applicable). One should marry with that in mind -- will your second spouse feel your child's needs are a priority?

A child should also know that their WANTS will come second to the wants of our spouse and to the health of the marriage and the family.

What a child wants isn't always what's good for them or their family...

Lexxxy - our kids are 7, 10, 12, 12, and 14. To answer whether they support the plan is a little complicated. Generally they get along and like their prospective step-parent. There is some developing territorialism, but not much different than what occurs among natural siblings.

Her kids will have to leave their neighborhood and school, and also their 2 cats (my oldest is allergic). But their father is already re-married, so they already seem used to the idea and seem happy about it. But they don't know about the cats yet.

My kids are with me about 1/3 of the time, and when they come over after I'm re-married, it might feel like they are guests. Right now they each have their own room at my house. It won't be immediately practical to get more space.

My oldest (14 y.o.) started out thinking my fiancee is great (she works with kids and is good with kids), but lately has come up with a laundry list of concerns. Most of them bogus. For instance, he somehow got the idea that money will be tighter and there will be more work involved, when actually the opposite is true.

My ex is going to be the biggest problem. Her first meeting with my fiancee did not go well - she acted out a scene in front of the kids. There is a cycle of her planting ideas in the kids, and then I have to address them when my kids come over. But that's been the case all along.

We've learned that we have to stick together as a team. The kids are important, and we are making the best decisions for their future.

Belle -- I like the "needs" vs. "wants" distinction.
I am probably guilty of elevating my kids "wants" into my "must do". And that's where the schedule gets crazy. Add to that the divorce scenario where neither parent wants to be the bad guy that says NO to an activity (for no good reason other than to eliminate the crazy scheduling....)

TMMX -- just curious, cuz I won't face this issue (my BF has no children...) How are you going to handle their rooms? Are your children being asked to give up their rooms? Will your step-children take those over? Seems like a big challenge to me. How soon are you getting married?


I agree with those that have the opinion that a spouse should come first. I guess where I am having confusion is in that in-between time. I was married -- the kids always came first and now in hindsight I recognize that as a mistake. Now that I am divorced, my kids have been my first priority. How do I transition my kids out of that position if/when I remarry. They are very accustomed to being in first place.

I also think that my kids tend to be overscheduled, but me and my XH don't work well together in scaling back their activities.
Youngest is a very good athlete. He competes at traveling A levels in 3 sports. He loves them all. And my XH is his coach for 2 of those sports. Its darn near impossible for me to say he can't play.

I've been divorced for 12 years and have not remarried. One reason is because I didn't want a stepfather in my home with my children. I decided that while they lived with me, I would put them ahead of any relationship I might have. It was easier that way. I dated but never had anyone move in with me or anything. I wasn't interested in being put in the middle. And it takes a lot of energy to work full-time, be a homeowner AND a single parent of 2 sons.

Any man that would ask me to choose between him and my children is not the man for me, in my opinion. Any man that loves me understands how important my children are to me and would NEVER ask me to choose between him and them. Period.

I have found that dating men with children is easier. Men with children understand what I go through. (And men that have actually RAISED children--even better!) If you don't have children you can't possibly understand what it's like to love your child. I couldn't understand it if I didn't have kids.

AGG, I've read your threads and I think you have some red flags with your relationship with G which you seem to be aware of. (Good for you!!) She doesn't have children so therefore she doesn't understand what it is like to be a parent. She can't, it's impossible.

I have learned a lot in the last 12 years and one of the most important is this: your children are only young for a short time. Before you know it they are grown and out of your home. Enjoy it fully while you can. Savor every moment.

Second marriages have a high divorce rate so I've learned that I need to choose very wisely the second time around. Now that my sons are grown, I feel more ready for this stage of my life.