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#1633387 04/10/06 04:06 PM
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Last edited by LLG; 04/10/06 07:41 PM.

LLG=Living, Learning, Growing formerly reallyconcerned
Trying to stop fearing and start living
BS-35
WS-33
kids, yes
1 D-day 8/2003, 2nd D-day 1/2006
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LLG,

You can negotiate anything but why would a BS accept anything less than complete transparency?


Divorced:
"Never shelter anyone from the realities of their decisions": Noodle

You believe easily what you hope for ernestly

Infidelity does not kill marriages, the lying does
Cymanca #1633389 04/10/06 04:30 PM
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TO answer your question with a question, what if your WS is reluctant?

Also, what has been your experience. I see that you are dving. Did your WS agree to it?


LLG=Living, Learning, Growing formerly reallyconcerned
Trying to stop fearing and start living
BS-35
WS-33
kids, yes
1 D-day 8/2003, 2nd D-day 1/2006
Current status:
Working in Plan A.
LLG #1633390 04/10/06 04:53 PM
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LLG,

If your WS is reluctant, 99% of the time it is because they have something to hide.

Deal breaker in my books. Your heart wil tell you "C'mon you trust WS" and you will go with the flow, trying to avoid conflict.

And yes my WW did accept complete transparency just not a post nuptual.


Divorced:
"Never shelter anyone from the realities of their decisions": Noodle

You believe easily what you hope for ernestly

Infidelity does not kill marriages, the lying does
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Is there such a thing as negotiations for transparency?

I'm sure there is such a thing

personally, I would not be bothered with it

like the TV game show

deal or no deal ?

transparency or no transparency ?

if the answer is "no transparency" and the answer remains "no transparency" after sooooooooo long a time between your 2 D-days ... what is the purpose of negotiating something that ought to come willingly as a show of good faith that he is ready for recovery???

Myself? 2 D-Days PLUS a
reluctant wayward hesitant to become fully committed to recovery ????
I'd be ready to do some walking away with my self-respect intact.

Do you negotiate lies or no lies too???

~sorry~

Pep

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1 D-day 8/2003, 2nd D-day 1/2006

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bump

Last edited by LLG; 04/12/06 03:37 AM.

LLG=Living, Learning, Growing formerly reallyconcerned
Trying to stop fearing and start living
BS-35
WS-33
kids, yes
1 D-day 8/2003, 2nd D-day 1/2006
Current status:
Working in Plan A.
Joined: Jan 2006
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I'd be ready to do some walking away with my self-respect intact.

Pepperband, has your WS been a WS twice. Also, has your WS been willing transparent?

Last edited by LLG; 04/12/06 03:38 AM.

LLG=Living, Learning, Growing formerly reallyconcerned
Trying to stop fearing and start living
BS-35
WS-33
kids, yes
1 D-day 8/2003, 2nd D-day 1/2006
Current status:
Working in Plan A.
LLG #1633395 04/10/06 11:50 PM
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Hey,

What did I miss here?!??!

L.

Orchid #1633396 04/11/06 01:48 AM
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Just talking about transparency.


LLG=Living, Learning, Growing formerly reallyconcerned
Trying to stop fearing and start living
BS-35
WS-33
kids, yes
1 D-day 8/2003, 2nd D-day 1/2006
Current status:
Working in Plan A.
LLG #1633397 04/11/06 02:10 AM
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splease 'splain. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

Orchid #1633398 04/11/06 04:58 AM
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Orchid, thanks for answering my other post. I wrote you another post before the last one that you answered about reverse babble explaining what my concern is regarding transparency. Most of my problem/concern w/ my H is transparency. Every since exposure and even prior to it, he acts defensive when I ask him about certain things or try to talk to him about the A or OW. He isn't forthcoming in talking to me about any of these thigns. So this was my concern.


Last edited by LLG; 04/11/06 05:13 AM.

LLG=Living, Learning, Growing formerly reallyconcerned
Trying to stop fearing and start living
BS-35
WS-33
kids, yes
1 D-day 8/2003, 2nd D-day 1/2006
Current status:
Working in Plan A.
LLG #1633399 04/11/06 12:42 PM
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Orchid, thanks for answering my other post. I wrote you another post before the last one that you answered about reverse babble explaining what my concern is regarding transparency. Most of my problem/concern w/ my H is transparency. Every since exposure and even prior to it, he acts defensive when I ask him about certain things or try to talk to him about the A or OW. He isn't forthcoming in talking to me about any of these thigns. So this was my concern.

No tranparency. He is in the fog. Don't allow him to suck you into the....FOG!

L.

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Pepperband, has your WS been a WS twice.

nope

once
more than 10 years ago
2 year EA/PA
high level of suckage
wife of his childhood friend
had to NC his life-long friend



Quote
Also, has your WS been willing transparent?

yes
10 years recovered
my H was also an active alcoholic at the time of his stupid A

10 years sobriety
he has nothing to hide 'cept my Christmas presents <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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LLG,

Why would you delete your posts on transparency?


Divorced:
"Never shelter anyone from the realities of their decisions": Noodle

You believe easily what you hope for ernestly

Infidelity does not kill marriages, the lying does
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Hiya Orchid. I thought abut your post yesterday. Had some thoughts.

Quote
Don't allow him to suck you into the....FOG!

How do I realize if I've been sucked in? Then what do I do to change this?

My thoughts are like, if I'm good he'll be good to me. I prefer not to see the matter that way, but that we both are trying to be good to each other. But it is like I'm reaching out in unusal ways and everyone says I'm not suppose to expect anything in return. I'm confused to some degree.

Quote
He is in the fog

How do you mean in the fog? I don't think he is still seeing OW. But we were getting to a point where he was being more transparent. Now it is like he has pulled back in. I'm having to sneak around again as if he is still in
the R. However I don't think it is b/c he is. I think it is b/c he is now adamant after exposure, as if I caused the consequences of it, to not let me in anymore. I think he feels he can't trust me and sees this as a big bad thing that I did, instead of looking at his own behavior.

WOndering what you think.

Last edited by LLG; 04/12/06 03:36 AM.

LLG=Living, Learning, Growing formerly reallyconcerned
Trying to stop fearing and start living
BS-35
WS-33
kids, yes
1 D-day 8/2003, 2nd D-day 1/2006
Current status:
Working in Plan A.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 17,837
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How do I realize if I've been sucked in? Then what do I do to change this?

Orchid: He isn't meeting your needs, yet you feel u were making progress. Then it makes it harder to admit that there isn't measurable progress. Betcha, you'd be willing to settle for any progress, right? Well a WS would like to slow down the progress and if the BS is willing to settle for it, then that's what a WS w/d.....until the BS wises up to it and by then, the BS hits the angry stage full steam!

Quote
My thoughts are like, if I'm good he'll be good to me. I prefer not to see the matter that way, but that we both are trying to be good to each other. But it is like I'm reaching out in unusal ways and everyone says I'm not suppose to expect anything in return. I'm confused to some degree.

Orchid: How are you both trying t/b good to each other? What is good 4 u? As for expecting something in return. You'd sure better expect something and something BIG. What u r being told is NOT to set yourself up for any disappointment. I agree. So what's the difference? Well the difference is you should expect t/b treated not just well but great. Make sure you know what great is and not settle for less. BUT expect he will try to give you less and when he does, what's your plan?

Quote
How do you mean in the fog? I don't think he is still seeing OW. But we were getting to a point where he was being more transparent. Now it is like he has pulled back in. I'm having to sneak around again as if he is still in the R. However I don't think it is b/c he is. I think it is b/c he is now adamant after exposure, as if I caused the consequences of it, to not let me in anymore. I think he feels he can't trust me and sees this as a big bad thing that I did, instead of looking at his own behavior.

WOndering what you think.

Orchid: Whether he is seeing OW or just having an EA in his head.....his actions dictate he is in a fog. Not making clear headed decisions. Leaving you to wonder if this is recovery or not. Stressing you out. Making you settle for less than you deserve. He s/b taking you beyond your expectations and your expectations had better be high. It's not a matter of you meeting his needs.....it's a matter of him meeting yours. If he grumbles that takes a lot of work, tell him u r worth it.

L.

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ORCHID SAID:
He isn't meeting your needs, yet you feel u were making progress.

Yes, he hadn't been meeting my important needs. Like right now feeling that our environment is safe from an A.

He has been acting more romantic. I like the romance. I realize that we may have two different ideas about meeting each others needs and I didn't want to squash his enthusiasm. But I feel strongly this go around that I can't sit back and not express my concerns.


Quote
ORCHID SAID:
Well a WS would like to slow down the progress and if the BS is willing to settle for it, then that's what a WS w/d

Is an example of slowing down progress when he is refusing transparency?


Quote
ORCHID SAID:
How are you both trying t/b good to each other? What is good 4 u?

Well as I mentioned above him acting in more romantic ways. Him acting a little more patient in some things.

Quote
ORCHID SAID:
What u r being told is NOT to set yourself up for any disappointment. I agree.

Ok, I get this, understand it better.

Quote
OCHID SAID:
BUT expect he will try to give you less and when he does, what's your plan?

No idea as of now. I do know that I would like for him to choose to do what makes me feel more comfortable to trust him and not me having to constanly prod him.

Quote
or just having an EA in his head.....his actions dictate he is in a fog. Not making clear headed decisions.

Ok, I understand this now. I just don't want to be controlling as for my own motives and I don't want to come off that way to him. But I feel strongly that we can't go the way we have before.

Thanks for explaining Orchid. You've cleared up some thoughts in my mind.

Last edited by LLG; 04/12/06 03:36 AM.

LLG=Living, Learning, Growing formerly reallyconcerned
Trying to stop fearing and start living
BS-35
WS-33
kids, yes
1 D-day 8/2003, 2nd D-day 1/2006
Current status:
Working in Plan A.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 17,837
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U can only control u. Make sure you expend your time and energy where it makes a difference.

L.


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