LA need your input please.
This is link to my first post.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...part=1&vc=1

Yesterday out the blue she told me that she read an article about infidelity
And that 1 out of 3 woman will have an affair, and her best friend had no right
To freak out when she told her about the A, by the way she lost her best friend.

I asked about her feelings towards what she did,
Specifically if she feels guilty or ashamed when she is with
OM, she replied NO, and it was her fault, she was the one to initiate the first contact.
I was hurt but I thanked her for her honesty and asked her what she thinks I thought
Of her, she said, “ What you told me”
I asked her if she believed me when I told her that I have no resentment towards her
And I never looked down on her she said yes but she doesn’t understand it, not after what she has done.
I
Told her not to put me in the same bag as everybody else because I’m not like everybody else and I did prove her wrong before and I will prove her wrong again.
And I’m treating her with love and respect for me not for her, I ‘m happy with what I’m doing, and proud of it, I couldn’t live with myself if I treated her bad, because we had a lots of good years together and I will never forget the good times we had, and she will always have a place in my heart, and my door is always open for her to come back, and I will always leave the porch light on for her.
She said that it will never happen and it will never be the same.
I told her I’m not talking about this now, not when she is still in love with OM.
Then I told her what I think of OM “he is a low life hypocrite looser praying on
Other peoples wifes”. she said how come you don’t think that of me?
I told her because I know you are a good person, and OM should know better than
That he is the one going to church and running AA meetings, and pretending to know the BIBLE.
Then I told her that for a strange reason the more she pushes me away, the more I feel love for her, it’s like she is trying to push a door that opens to the inside.
Then I wished her good knight.

Does anybody know why I feel this way?
Why the more she pushes me away the nicer I get?
Why do I still love her?
I mean she hurt me so bad it’s unbearable, so why I’m still in love with her?
Wouldn’t be easier to hate her?
It’s strange but inside all that pain and misery I’m happy that I still love her
Could somebody please make sense of that?

I'm here, Joe, and I've been following your thread.

I believe you are experiencing a crisis of self as much as being betrayed by your WW.

You are not crazy, defective or lost. Finding yourself can feel like going into a million pieces...to see you were whole, all along.

You're human.

Know you are whole, complete, and marvelously made by God. In God's design, you cannot cause, control or cure anyone. Only you. Your control is limited to you, about you, and what you choose your life from. You have been enwrapped in your wife, pre-A...and she in you. Leads us to believing the affair partner (AP) replaces us...equally enwrapped. This belief can give you that unbearable feeling of pain...because being replaced has the belief behind it of being erased.

You cannot be either. Ever. That's truth. What we choose to believe, thus, experience, is very different.

Unraveling yourself from your partner is not losing love...it is changing the environment, the process, in which you choose to love.

You are bringing her perspective, her thoughts and words to us...to share so that we experience what you are experiencing. Part of the greatness of the internet...to connect to others, human to human.

Your WW shared with you a statistic...which confronted her belief that she would not be an adulteress. Now that she is, she is as lost as you are--she is trying to see how she got this way, and finding evidence others have also. Seeking self-comfort from self-shame. Both are in her, about her...not you.

You respectfully asked how she felt...I believe this, before your intent went awry. See, to know her thoughts, feelings and beliefs is dangerous to you right now...what once you shared, like one, is definitely separate now. That's the respect. You yearn for the one, of being of one mind and goal, faithful and true...know this so that your pain isn't unbearable. See God's hand in your life right now and take comfort that he created you both, equal and separate...and whole.

You are asking for her feelings about what she did, when actually, she is doing. "How do you feel about yourself now?" is important. Being lost, time and tense matter. There is a part of her that cannot accept her current choices, and they are mixed up in her past choices...and she feels safer in believing she had no choice. She wants power to stop, I promise you, and sees it in owning blame...making OM blameless. Do not fight this by attacking OM. To attack him makes him real, not fantasy. Choose to believe this; it's very important. I spent a lot of time and focus on OW...wasted energy. Your WW asked you to look directly at and focus on her, not OM...her intent may well be to protect, yet truth remains. Support her request...this is between you and her. When she says, "I'm the one who had the power to do this, to start it," acknowledge this as her truth.

"I hear you saying you made OM cheat."

Being respectful in the listen and repeat is for clarity. Have no agenda, no desire to persuade, educate or attack her...only to have clarity.

This is very common for waywards, Joe. Feeling powerless to get what they want from their spouse, believing in manipulation and earning love, not being made to feel special (power), cherished...focused on...filled from the outside; the allure comes from catching a clean slate's attention, focus, and feeling powerful, responsible and making someone else give them what they want.

See the fantasy at work? OM can be anyone...absolutely anyone...they are made up in the mind of the wayward as a symbol, not a human, to get what the WS wants, and to feel powerful and worthy. See how close to an addict waywards are? The drug comes from the outside...and all this is truly on the inside.

Do not tear down OM for obvious hypocrisy...we can't show our spouses the fantasy they are addicted to by making the drug more real, being human, having identity. Your WW will come to that on her own...because A's aren't about love, but addiction.

Your part is owning that in your marriage, you were gladly her drug, and she, yours. Finding out how you were, where you benefited (the payoff) falsely, which contributed to the state of the marriage, will go a long way to make this time bearable for you. Center you...own your beliefs in what love was, how you showed it, how you thought life worked...and examine them for what they really are...yours. Yours to choose, to believe in, or to replace with the ones you have learned.

Begin with these:

"I was hurt but I thanked" First, why did this defense of OM, this ownership of her choice, hurt you? Find out and tell us. Then ask yourself if that had any bearing on why you hurt and did not express your hurt through simple honest statements. "I hear you saying you made OM cheat and I felt pain right here" and point to where you felt it. This is you owning your stuff. "I guess I wanted to see you, my love, as a victim of this affair...as you choosing to cheat against your will."

Good to know, huh? Your truth will save you, Joe. Only if you know it and own it. You are human. Find out more about yourself...see pain as coming from inside you...recognize your own expectations as creating a big part of that pain...which feels unbearable.

Do not betray yourself anymore. Stop. You are not entitled to speak your thoughts, feelings and beliefs...you are bound by love of self to do so. Very different.

"and asked her what she thinks I thought of her,"

This is you seeing yourself through her eyes. This is where you are enmeshed with her...to ask this is to put the responsibility for yourself onto her...an act of self-betrayal. What I believe you wanted to know, instead, was if she thought you looked weak, spineless...or faithfully loving in spite of your fear and pain. Was that closer?

Know how much you define yourself through her...it's important.

She said "she said, “ What you told me”"

Can you see this as an act of respect? She is taking your words as your truth. She is no longer defining you, telling you who you are through her. Just in this second, she sees you as separate humans...this is what you want to do for you...and for her. Acknowledge this...it's a glimpse of a new way to live and to love...her affair has nothing to do with who you are...but how you lived through her and she lived through you.

Please take her statement as a gift...if you will, then you will not lie to her as you then did...in reaction to her words. You will be able to speak your truth, to her and to yourself.

"I asked her if she believed me when I told her that I have no resentment towards her and I never looked down on her" Where's your payoff in asking this? To show you are the better man, better than OM? To show you are better for her? Or to tell yourself you really aren't resenting her having your children around OM...having her erase you? Get to your truth...own your own resentment...you made it for a purpose. There's another way.

To ask if another believes you is to ask them to join in your conspiracy to be untrue to yourself...says that what you believe about you needs to be confirmed...puts their opinion above yours...and betrays you.

It's a great signal about our own self-deception. And humans do, Joe. You're not defective because you've lied to yourself...we grow up telling ourselves all sorts of things to take the sting and the stab out of our pain. I'm asking you not to do that...to know that your own pain is a signal to you...help you get to its sources...and all of what I'm writing are possible sources. Only you know...only you can...and you're worth it.

"I told her not to put me in the same bag as everybody else" This is a DJ.

"because I’m not like everybody else" this is a DJ to yourself.

"and I did prove her wrong before and I will prove her wrong again." How much love is there in proving people wrong? Flip this around with her trying to state her love by proving you wrong...you are wrong...you are a mistake. What does that signal to you?

"And I’m treating her with love and respect for me not for her, I ‘m happy with what I’m doing, and proud of it," here is where your new beliefs are being stated and shared...

and here: "I couldn’t live with myself if I treated her bad, because we had a lots of good years together and I will never forget the good times we had," is where your old belief, that love is earned, a debt, shows that your new belief didn't replace it, but sits beside it.

"and she will always have a place in my heart, and my door is always open for her to come back, and I will always leave the porch light on for her." This isn't from your personal code, but from fear. Because you value what she believes more than what you believe, you are trying to make her believe this, when it is not your truth. You can't know your future or your choices. I believe what you are saying is that you believe she doesn't believe you can or will forgive her, that your marriage is over, and you fear she cannot see that a new one, a healthy, vibrant, thriving one can be in your future with her...as you can see it.

Do not betray today for the sake of tomorrow. Know what you fervently wish for and see your own child in that wish. Choice is reality...you are choosing to not divorce today because of her infidelity. If she continues this infidelity, you may choose to go to Plan B, where she isn't welcome, as long as she continues her affair. Please know your choices and truth...you don't know what will happen in the next five minutes...do not betray yourself with these statements...they cover your truth.

"I am feeling great fear. I have lived so much through you, loving you with all I am, and now, feeling so lost because I'm learning so much and could have done it differently. I believe more in what you think than in what I think."

Your truth is your essence, Joe. Own your statements...about you, not her. Build up your belief in yourself by doing this, time and time again...you can do this. You're valuable...equal.

"She said that it will never happen and it will never be the same."

Listen and repeat...with her choice. "I hear you are choosing to believe you will not want to stop your affair and work on our marriage."

There is no argument in this statement...it is for clarity. It is respectful of her thoughts and beliefs...which makes them hers, not yours. It is not what you are choosing to believe.

"I told her I’m not talking about this now, not when she is still in love with OM." Please do not validate that she is in love with OM...this is her truth, not THE truth. She is in love with a fantasy, not a person. You are choosing to believe this and this choice is doing you great harm. I know from BOTH sides that this is perception, not truth. It is the lie needed to continue to feed on the drug.

Please honor yourself and do believe this. And you did something here, before saying that, that is important to recognize...you said, "I am not talking about this while..." when you were talking about this. Do not invalidate this fragile reality by believing you aren't doing what you are doing...adds to you feel crazy, out of touch, lost...in those million pieces. What I believe you intended was,

"I promised myself not to talk about our marriage as long as you chose to continue to cheat. I broke that promise. I'm talking about this with you, and now I feel anger. I'm angry I broke my promise to myself."

The more you listen and repeat her words, the better you will hear your own...they are not your tool for changing your life...they are your truth for living it.

You can do this. This is not me attacking you, saying you're doing it all wrong. This is me telling you that you are not wrong...can't be...and asking you to be more aware of yourself.

"Then I told her what I think of OM “he is a low life hypocrite looser praying on other peoples wifes”." Here is your anger...your right to judge...from fear.

"she said how come you don’t think that of me?" Your WW has a high honesty factor...whoa...this is a question she asks herself and asked you out loud. Honor this lost woman, please..."I hear you asking me why I don't think of you in the same way. I know you and love you. OM is a fantasy...he's not real. You are."

"I told her because I know you are a good person, and OM should know better than that he is the one going to church and running AA meetings, and pretending to know the BIBLE."

See where judgment hurts so much? You are judging her a good person...which by doing so, says what you believe of her makes it so...and you're judging OM a bad person...so there are good and bad people in the world and maybe she thinks this judgment, being married to a judge, is really hard to live with...what do you think?

"Then I told her that for a strange reason the more she pushes me away, the more I feel love for her, it’s like she is trying to push a door that opens to the inside." Now here you spoke your truth...one you didn't even know you had...and asked her to see it with you...a puzzle. Can you see how this is intimacy to you? This "what do you think of what I think" routine isn't intimacy, Joe. It is defining yourself through others.

Find the meaning of your truth. You see her pushing you out...being separate...holding that new door of separateness firmly shut...where you have no control, just influence. Find out what that image symbolizes to you, where your emotions then signal great love, acceptance, relief, something in you unbinding...and trace that to the belief it comes from.

"Does anybody know why I feel this way?
Why the more she pushes me away the nicer I get?"

We cannot push against something that isn't there...your belief in her pushing you away confirms you exist...you aren't erased...you're real...and still defining yourself through what she feels and believes...as you used to do...comfort in that, don't you think?

"Why do I still love her?" Why are you choosing to still love her? What if it is for the first time, really choosing, to love this human being in your life, instead of all she represents, that you depend on for and live through?

"I mean she hurt me so bad it’s unbearable, so why I’m still in love with her?" Could be the first time you are asking your truth from you...instead of her. Loving yourself, acknowledging you exist, without a thought spoken or an action taken...you do. You are.

Worth the journey, Joe. I promise.

LA
Wouldn’t be easier to hate her?
It’s strange but inside all that pain and misery I’m happy that I still love her
Could somebody please make sense of that?

Thank you LA I needed this
I'm glad you're still here, I'm crying now
I'm so hurt by all this.

I 'm going home now I will try to check the site
from home over the WE.

thanks a lot

Privileged to be here for you, Joe.

You are hurting. Not being hurt. Know the difference. Trust yourself...you've been trustworthy all your life...time to choose to trust you more.

I'm embarrassed for the length of my reply--yes, I have fear and doubt. I know it takes what it takes...and I appreciate you accepting that of me, also.

LA

I thank you with all my heart LA.

I love reading your reply it's not to long,it's true
you are an awsome caring person,I know how it feels to help
somebody else, I've been their, I was born I Beirut Lebanon
I was 13 when the civil war started My dad was overseas
back then I was the man of the house, had 4 siblings, and we managed.
later in life I joined the red cross, we helped a lots of people, the best time of my life, you can not believe the joy you have when you save another life, yes even the life
of people that want to kill you, and still do after you save them, I am Catholic and you wouldn't believe the curses we heard about our cross when we wher helping the other side. we did it anyway,we felt joy and relief
we knew it was the right thing to do.
I lost a lot of friends to the war, my best friend died in my arms after a sniper hit him in the head while he was next to me in the red cross ambulance.
I never shed a tear,don't get me wrong it did hurt but not as much as this, and I told my WW that.
and somehow I feel that I'm in the same ship again.
the difference is that I'm trying to save the love of my life,I'm trying to save my sole, I know I'm doing the right thing, but the pain doesn't stop,I'm trying to be myself, but I don't know who I am anymore,for the first time in my life I don't know who I am may be I'm blinded by depression, maybe fear,maybe love, I don't know.
it's an awkward feeling, because since I was 8 years old I
always knew what I wanted ,I wanted to be an electric engeneer, and i accomplishe it.
Now I don't know who I am.
I know one thing, I know that I love my wife, I know that I want to save my M, But I don't see the light anymore, she is pushing me further away,she blames me for everything,she blames me because she is bord, she blames me if she gains weight, she resents me because I can't gain weight even if I try, she blames me if her car breaks down, she blames me for her A, Bottom line she blames me for everything and it hurts so bad I think I'm giving up.
I need to find myself, and I don't think I can in this state of mind, I can't leave the house the kids are too attached to both of us.
I run my business all by myself, so you can immagine I'm alone all day I don't have anybody to talk to,can't wait till the day is over, and I go home and she is in a bad mood, so you can see I don't have any safe place to be at,
my family is 13000 miles away, talking to them on the phone doesn't help much.
so don't feel bad about the length of your reply, you don't know how much it helps to read them.
Thank you again for being so generous and kind
Thank you.

"she blames me for everything"

She blames you because she HAS to...otherwise, there is no reason to choose to be in an affair, is there?

This is the opportunity to get that separateness into your head...she blames and that is her opinion...in no way is it your truth. Hers stays right where it belongs...over there...with her. Yours stays right here with you...your choice to believe her truth or maintain yours. Respectfully, 'k?

You are letting the blame get in by choosing to believe her truth. Stop doing that! She can believe you have a gigantic purple head right now, and you know you don't...are you going to hurt because she's saying something you don't believe? No! You hurt when you believe what she believes...you're in enmeshed...you don't know where you end and she begins.

Respect...listen and repeat...know you are handing her back her choices...and there's a big, metal hopper on your head to sift her words...to hold them BEFORE you allow them into your brain, because you are conditioned to believe automatically...her truth as yours, yours as hers...and there's a whole lot of pain you're experiencing because she is no longer accepting automatically your truth...in fact, she's twisted your truth up into a bundle and tossed it overboard...that's not fair! Not fair to you...just very real.

She is separate from you. You have been living as two halves into one whole, instead of two wholes becoming one...you've been completing instead of complementing...

Many of us did...and do. You're not alone. You're not defective.

Time to get separate and whole in your mind...I'm reminding your mind...blame is only an opinion, Joe...not fact. It is as subjective as humans are by nature, and I believe, unnecessary in a marriage.

Judgment is blame. Judgment is not a partner of your marriage...it is a measuring device with really sharp edges...cuts you when you use it on others...

You know what it is to love, anyway...in the Red Cross, loving your country of birth, loving your wife...all because you CHOOSE to...not because of who or what they were...you did it anyway.

There's where your own truth got betrayed, Joe...when you become one and see yourself as a half, then you see yourself lost in another person, and that is PERSONAL betrayal...you didn't call in chits for choosing to work for the Red Cross, did you? Did you go up to families a couple of years later and ask for payment? Ask for praise, admiration--did you keep a tally of everyone you helped and judged how much they owed you back to call it even?

Nope...I don't believe you did. I believe you soared, one with yourself, for loving from the inside out...acting from your own code and living with acceptance, fierce passion and loved the way you loved.

You didn't lose you...you got distracted by loving a real person...it is amazing. Can be confusing...yes, betrayal hurts more than death because we live through it...it is partially in our hands and not...it is another level of knowing who you are...now.

She cannot push you farther away...you can choose to move farther away. You can retract from fear, distance from pain...your choice. God didn't give her the power to make you do, feel, think or believe anything.

Your choice.

We can find ourselves anywhere...we are with us, always. Stay with your family, your kids...she is the one in the affair, not you. Your children need you more than ever...they don't know who mommy is anymore...not right now...and they need you to be open and honest with your feelings..validate their own and show that love stays...

And you can hurt and love, anyway.

You know how to do that, Joe.

Examine how her moods choose yours for you...and how that is self-betrayal...what in you gave her power over you...enough to push, shove, lift, drop and decimate?

(((((Joe)))))

LA

First of all the statistic is great for the person having an A. Great I am not alone in what I am doing. Other people have done the same thing or worse then I have.

How about this 33% of women made really bad decesions. You chose to be a part of the 33% that did that. What about the 67% of women that would never do that. Am I lucky that you are not the only one in the 33% or am I unlucky that my FWW did not chose to be a part of the 67%.

If 33% of the women in our country chose to be hookers would you decide it was ok to be part of that statistic? If 33% of the women in our country decided being beaten by their husband was ok would you want to be part of that 33%? You get the point.

As far as your feelings about her pushing you away and you wanting to pull closer. Of course we know what you feel. You feel like you are not worthy and you are competing for something that someone else wants. When we were younger don't you remember chasing someone and wanting them more because they were a challenge.

You are feeding into that again. The worse she treats you the better you treat her. What incentive does she have to treat you better? I am sorry for the way you feel. I have felt the same way.

I know one thing I deserve to be treated fairly. I deserve to get out of this relationship what I put into it. I do not deserve more then I put in nor does your FWW. Right now she is getting more out then she is putting in.

If it was her Fault then what is she going to do about it. Continue on?

As far as OM is he married. Did you expose?

You are absolutly right but it's so hard to focus when I'm in this state of mind, thank you for being the outsider lookink into my soul, it's a trumendous help.
it's a blessing for finding this website.

YH.
thanks for your input
I exposed to her parents she told them that the PA never happened and they believed her, she told them that I've been snooping on her and she feels in prison, so her mom let her get another cell phone to her mom's address
so I can't get acces to it. so no help their yet.
now on my other thread I stated that the pastor from the school wich is the OM's boss had called me about some he heard at school, I confirmed his findings and since I don't have physical evidence, he have to conducting his own
investigation. he just called me about 40 min ago,stating exactly that, I told him that they might be going out today, and that my WW had told her best friend.

I need to give him some time to uncover this before I do anything else, I don't want to alarm them they will hide their A
more or even stoping it for a while, it's hard but I need to be patient.

thank you for everything

One more question

I know pushing the kids away and yelling at them is text book behavior.

should I say anything about it?
If so how could I do it without being a DJ?
or should I just sit and watch?

this is hurting the kids too you know.
sometimes she plays with them but her temper is extreemly short.
She yells at them for huming a tune in the car with a song on the radio, is that normal?
this morning she didn't even talk to me,she is so indeferent now, so I left her a note in her van to have a nice day.
should I stop that? should I do a 180?
thanks.
joe.

bump

only the ones that you love can hurt you.

Not true, Joe...

"only the ones who love you can hurt you"

Strangers hurt us when they cut us off, define us by labeling, pass judgment. You can feel rejected by a cashier, a doorman...that hurts. Whom you love you are vulnerable to...so you can connect, maintain your desire to connect.

And we hurt people we've never met...we ripple around the world...

Why can strangers, acquaintances, friends and loved ones all have the ability to hurt us? Because pain comes from the inside, Joe...not the outside...our own perceptions, perspective, beliefs and expectations cause pain.

Get The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans...so you can have a list of what abuse is...see what you do and what your WW does, and help the kids to understand what boundaries are...how to respond to abuse.

Get Boundaries in Marriage by Cloud & Townsend...they also have Boundaries For Kids...yelling at you, the kids, the mechanic or the pastor is verbally abusive.

I don't advise on anything but Plan A...and the way I did Plan A, I had what for me was a quite a bit of a 180...however, as I keep preachin' at you...my intent was not to manipulate...my intent was to change.

When you do self-care, then your focus is on you...discovering what your needs are and what you do about them...or how you neglect yourself. This can look like a 180 from the outside.

Plan A is not a doormat...it is you holding to your own code and stop being reactive and manipulative...which we all are in enmeshed marriages...it is choosing your perspective (and giving yourself permission with awareness to do so); choosing your beliefs and thoughts (stopping obsessive thoughts and examining your feelings and tracing them back to the beliefs they are coming from). When you understand fully your choices, inside and out, then you understand true power...and cannot be a doormat...nor hold resentment.

I didn't understand YOH's beginning of his post about the statistics giving permission...I did read where you feel pushed away when it is you wanting to pull closer...be safer...stop the madness. What did you think of that? I thought it very insightful.

And his "deserving" at the end of his post is what I would like you not to do, Joe. Think about it. How your wife got wayward...

She created resentments and believes that you are doing them to her. She expected fairness and no pain in marriage. She believe you and her were one...if she felt pain, you should also...and you cure her feelings and she cures yours. This was fair and what she thought was being treated fairly. She deserved better...deserved her needs met wherever she could find them met...she deserved to take a drug in OM because it was her painkiller, her distraction...and from kids, her H, her FOO...all of which were causing all this pain coming in at her from the outside...

So her deserving grew into entitlement, fueled by resentment and a lack of respect.

Don't take that road, Joe...you do have resentments...we all do until we learn we create them in ourselves for a payoff...and now you understand how being separate and equal and owning what is yours, not hers, is respectful...so please don't venture into entitlement...deserving...that doesn't define your boundaries and takes the BS on the same journey the WS took...

Boundaries are about you...you create a list of your standards..what you don't allow yourself to do to other people...and you hold your actions up to that list before you choose to act...same with boundaries...what you won't allow others to do to you without consequences...boundary enforcements. The deal is, if you're doing it to others, you can't enforce that boundary when they do it to you.

Why I start with respect, openness and honesty (O&H) and getting the reality of separate and equal.

For your kids...get "Between Parent and Child"...and yes, Ears_Open has the book so she knows the author...its in its 18th reprint or something...published over thirty years ago...and it is timeless. And it's not long.

This will aid you in dealing with your children honestly, your WW, your self...the more you know, Joe, the better you will feel...new beliefs bring new feelings...taking action can be self-educating, hugging, smiling at self--all part of self-care.

You want to fix it all...please know that fixing people is abusive.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Yeah, you heard me.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You can do this...your how's and why's matter greatly...they impact everyone and the rest of your life. Plan A honestly...with your pure intent to save your marriage. Emphasize her choice..."When you choose to yell at our kids, I believe that is abusive."

Did you tell the pastor how much you hurt, that the kids are hurting and how much you fear for your marriage?

LA

Thanks LA I always love your posts.

I'm still in plan A and I feel she is pulling further away.
like i said earlier she got another cell phone that she only uses to talk to OM nobody else have the number, she leaves her other cell in the car in case I call she doesn't have to answer it, she usualy calls latter, she even have an email address only for OM, so she is creating
a fantasy life for her and OM, and to tel you this doesn't hurt I will be lying to you...

this morning she was yelling at my 6 year old daughter,
I went upstairs and D was crying , she wanted her hair done a certain way her mom didn't know how to do it so she yelled at her.
I picked her up took her downstairs told her that mommy loves her she is only upset at something else, and she didn't have time to fix her hair the way she wanted, so she picked up a different way, I made her breakfast, and took her back upstairs I could tell mommy was feeling guilty, she told her mom the way she wanted her hair done, and everything was ok again.
I didn't say anything to her mom because it would have been a DJ.
I'm going to get the books you suggested and get more info
you are right knowledg is power.
you have no Idea how much your input have helped me cope with this.
Thank you.

"I didn't say anything to her mom because it would have been a DJ."

What do you mean by this? Did you have something you wanted to say to her and knew it was disrespectful? Or do you believe saying, "Yelling when we're angry is our permission to abuse." Simple, with a hug and a kiss...sharing your truth...if that is your truth.

I think you handled it great..except you spoke for mommy...DJ'd her to your daughter. Better to have done exactly what you did...which was remove DD, hear her thoughts and feelings, validate them and return her to mommy. Speak for you, not your partner.

"Why did mommy do that?" "You can ask her that, right?"

Now for her pushing you away...how can you know she's pushing you away...or if she's pushing away guilt, distancing herself from truth and reality...fantasies don't live on their own, ya know...why are you choosing to see this as her pushing you away?

Now, get in the mindset this is A is about her...only. You didn't cause it...can't control it...you're not the reason. Takes away a lot of power, doesn't it? But wait...does it take away a lot of the pain of it? She's in a fantasy...unless you buy into resentment, bitterness and deservedness, then you're not in a fantasy, right?

Thanks for the update...how proud of you are you? You're really doing something here, Joe...a hero's journey. We don't get to slay dragons...but saving your marriage can feel like it, if you remember the Affair is the dragon, not your WW.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

I guess I was going to tell her why you are yelling at her
she is just a kid.it sounds like a DJ to me so I let my
actions talk by taking My D away.
and to be truthfull with you I do snap at the kids once in a while, so what I should do is sit down with WW and tell her that we both should stop the yelling, because it's hurting the kids, and to remind one another when we do lose it, this would be the best way to go.

thanks for the word of encouregement.
I think I'm up to bigger chalenges, I think her mom is validating her position about staying friends with OM,
because she told her mom that the PA never hapened and he is only a very good friend and she is happy when she is with him, and her mom just wants her to be happy.
I know blood don't turn into water, but I think, even against my instinct that I should talk to her parents again telling them that I love my wife with all my heart and I am commited to saving my marriage, and I need their help, by
not validating her position...

and about runing away from her guilt. I asked her a few days ago If she felt guilty when she was with OM and she said NO and I believed her.So I don't know if it's guilt or not.

"how proud of you are you?"

I am a verry proud man I've always been and still am.
this is why I wonder how and why I'm taking all this humiliation from the person that was once madly in love with me.
I think it's GOD working his mystery.

right?

If you think it is God working his mystery...no right or wrong about that. What you believe is valid.

Why do you see this as taking humiliation?

Thanks for clarifying the DJ in your head. It is difficult for me sometimes to understand meaning in posts. Actually, clarifying is just respectful...I was a big assumer and fear I can slide into it at any point.

Some people think talking to their WS's is a DJ.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

LOL

You can choose to clarify to her parents and ask again for their help. Where are you on informing the PA to the pastor? Updating exposure...re-exposure counts...so if you are of the mind to ask for help with your marriage by not validating her affair and her affair partner...because the affair continues...then please do.

If her parents know OM, can you not get the information from them to expose to OM's W? "How is OM's W...oh, what was her name..." work? Pretty silly, I know. I'm not good at the people coaxing thingie...I'm better at digging through trash and cars.

Does your DD attend that church for school where he teaches? Can you pull her out of there? I wonder if she has contact with OM and how it will affect her.

Is your WW continuing to volunteer there? Can you expose to other volunteers or their organizer?

How about your parents, friends, other relatives?

You chose to believe your WW's truth about her not feeling guilt, is that correct? Are you choosing to also believe her truth that he makes her happy? That you make her not happy? Do you choose to believe this? Know why they say WS's are abducted by aliens...

'cuz they are!

LOL

Choose carefully what you believe...there is payoff in you believing she is pushing you away, not feeling guilt or shame...find that payoff. Examine it.

If you choose to see yourself as taking humiliation from a woman who once was madly in love with you, then you are choosing to believe that being in love is the safest place to be...a protection...a place of no wrong doing or harm...would that be accurate?

And WS's can be madly in love with their spouses, again...if you choose to believe so...once the A ends, all contact stops for life, and they open their love bank back up to you for deposits...if you believe in that state that there is no more harm or danger of pain, then your own expectations from that belief will hurt a lot...because you married a human, huh?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

Thank's again.

her parents just met OM don't know his wife
he is not a teacher he is a Maintenance guy.
he has given my kids crosses made by his father.
I told WW that I don't want him to be in contact with my kids and don't want him to give them anything.She promised me on that one, I will belive her but i will still check on that.
The pastor called me yesterday morning he said he is conducting his own investigation, I relayed to him that she told her best friend about the A and gave him her phone number.

and yes she still volunteers at school.

most of my friends know My familly is 13000 miles away.

Thanks for the alien reminder, I keep forgeting that.

Help LA I’m running out if steam.

I can’t disconnect myself from her abusive behavior.

Typical day everyday.

She gets up @ 5:15 am and start getting ready.
I get up @ 6:15 out of respect I say Hi Babe, I always said that, these days she barely acknowledges me , it hurts I know I need to keep doing it but I’m only human I don’t expect much but unless she needs something she doesn’t talk to me.
Today she asked my son if daddy is gone yet, this hurts.

I know that I’m not supposed to expect anything right now just does it, but common I’m still human
My love bank is draining rapidly these days, I pray everyday to get the strength to continue on, but it’s hard.
I feel so unappreciated so unwelcome she only needs me for her financial support,
And she doesn’t even say thank you anymore.
I know she is an alien but even an alien will appreciate the good in people.
She knows I’m hurting her indifference is killing me.

This is what I want to tell her

Why are you’re treating me this way, when I’m still taking care of you?
Why are you so rude to me when I’m being so nice?
Why am I a thorn in your side?
You know that I’m busting my a** of so you don’t have to, is this my reward?
What kills me is that while I’m working trying to provide for the family you are
Taking advantage of that by going out wasting money on motel rooms so you can
Be with OM, he can’t even afford to pay for his own room for god sake, so bottom line
I’m paying for my wife to have a boyfriend. And on top of that I’m being treated like
A piece of trash, that she keeps recycling everyday, it’s like she enjoy torturing me.
I want to tell her that if OM makes her happy why doesn’t she leave
And save me the agony?
We have 4 doors she can pick the one the wants.
Why am I doing this to myself why don’t I just give up, I don’t care about losing
The house or the business I’m ready to give her everything and move on,
But wait we are not dating we are married we have kids we have responsibilities
Why am I the only one seeing this?
I need help please help me get out of this mess, I keep praying but I think I’m loosing my faith. I don’t know what to do I’m beyond the end of my rope I’m having bad thoughts lately help.

I'm just venting.

I'm so sorry for venting over here I.m having a verry bad
day today.

No need to apologize for venting here. This is the one place where it is encouraged and free ;-)

Sorry you're having a bad day. There will be more. But there will also be good days and they will become more frequent. Have you considered individual counselling (IC) or marriage counselling (MC)? Does your work have an employee assistance program? You can get some free sessions through that.