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To be honest, SB, from your posts-it does not seem that the affair caused the disintegration of your marriage. It appears that your wife incorrectly chose the arms of another man as an escape; however, she was probably going to do a dash anyway. It also appears that she and her parents believe that you are abusive and they view your religious conversion is insincere.

Your words here are very revealing. You say you are only changing "one thing" to fix this mess. Are you aware that change is a multifaceted endeavor? Giving control to God is one part of the process. God helps us, but we must do our part.

Exactly what "felonies" have you "committed" against your wife and why are you being accused of abuse? You must honestly address these questions.

You say you have never hit your wife. Domestic abuse does not need to include physical violence. Control of the victim is the key motivator in a domestic abuse scenario, and you have admitted that your were controlling. Are you willing to entertain the idea that you were an abusive man?

If you are serious about getting things straight in your life and possibly getting your marriage back on track permanently, I STRONGLY urge you to visit and explore this site. It was designed by men for men.

Be sure to click on the "Violent & Controlling Behavior Checklist" & scroll down to the portion that lists psychological and emotional abuse: http://www.menstoppingviolence.org/LearnMore/Info4Men.php

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Hey SB, where do you stand on getting your leave? Is it still a go for this month?


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



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CS,

Welcome back. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Let me respond by stating that my marriage has not disintegrated. We are still married and things are progressing for her and I individually and I believe they will progress as a couple when we are together again during my leave, which is scheduled to begin in less than a week.

My words are revealing because they are honest. What do I have to gain from lying on this site? The only way I can have others help me is to reveal myself, my actions, my responses, my instincts, my fears, and my pain, and my true self. I concur with you that love-of-self is important and that is one of my issues with my intimacy with my wife and with God - I never took the time to know me better so I could share that with her or Him.

I have listed my "felonies" to the best of my knowledge and as I gain more knowledge, I gain more insight into myself. Reading is fundamental and I thank you for the link. The way I discovered the root cause (fear-based control) of the symptoms that have driven my wife into the arms of another was through the following website and the wise counsel of MSA on this website (see the thread):

Overcoming Control

When I read this, it hit me hard because I realized that my behaviors had deeply wounded my wife and prevented the kind of true intimacy that we needed to have a successful marriage. I understand that the controlling behavior is a form of abuse and I as the perpetrator was being abusive. Not only have I entertained the idea, I have acknowledged it, looked into it, grieved it, prayed about it, scheduled IC for it, and been repentant for it to both my WW and God. Those are the actions I am taking in response to the one fundamental change I am making to help me change into the husband and father I am supposed to become.

That is what precipitated my commitment to pursuing God more fervently and with humility - to succeed in making the changes in accordance with God's will for my life and to understand how to cherish and nourish my wife the right way. This isn't kumbyah and handholding, it's being a person of faith willing to act on that belief in God. I really don't care if my MIL believes my re-commitment is insincere, as only time will be the testimony and I can't affort to become complacent with my faith again.

Plan A is mostly about understanding where you've fallen short and making a concerted effort to change, then changing and proving your love through actions. It's about becoming the best husband and father I can become as quickly as I can to BEGIN righting the wrongs of neglect and controlling behavior so we can fall in love again and have a far better marriage going forward. I am making progress and I am encouraged by what God is doing in me and my life. That is all I can control and I am at peace.

Thanks for your continued inquiries into my progress on this issue and for the information.

sbmmal

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I am not gunning for anyone, and I have no agenda. I am simply willing to be "radically honest" about what I am thinking. If you don't like honesty, that "tells" on you. You say I am not helping but honesty does indeed help-and the founder of this site would agree with me on this particular point.

LOL, I am one of the most honest and blunt posters around here, my friend...Because of my honesty, I recognize BULLCRAP when I read it...Hey, I threw a bunch of that around here myself in the beginning, so I completely understand...I get it CS, really, I do...I just find it more than interesting, that you show up here to be "radically honest" on only ONE thread, while taking cheap shots at a long time MB poster with no provocation whatsoever,(except for her continued support of SB) AND also, without ever telling YOUR story...Sorry, that just doesn't smack of honesty in my book, much less "radical honesty"...I think it's time for "quid pro quo" CS...

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Infidelity isn't the only issue SB is battling here. In his telling of the tale, he said that he was wrong to be "controlling" with his wife. This is a serious matter that needs exploration in order to achieve a LASTING repair of their relationship-if that is even possible at this point. Singing kumbaya and holding hands isn't going ot do it, but honesty would be a step in the right direction.

To be clear-SB needs to address the issue of his controlling behavior: That is... admit it, delve into it, discuss it, and see why he did it. Otherwise he is likely to repeat it and this cycle will happen for him and his wife (or subsequent paramours) all over again.

See again, CS, I just truly wonder where you are getting your information regarding infidelity...When I was in my affair, I too accused Mr. W of being controlling...And in our case, THAT IS LAUGHABLE-He is far from controlling...But the "controlling cry" is very often heard from a WS, because it makes for a great smoke screen...You know in the mind of a WS, the best defense is most often an agressive offense...It's just the name of the game CS...

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BY the way, name calling on the MARRIAGEBUILDERS web site? Wow... Do you use that tactic within your marriage?

You know CS, I would do anything that I could to get you off this man's thread, because you aren't doing anything but acting as a distraction to him, actually, probably an annoying one, at that...How's that for radical honesty?

Further, I always find it hilarious when people try to twist MB principles and use them as some sort of bizarre "feelings shelter" for strangers on a public forum...To answer your question, NO, I do not call my husband names...Um, I am MARRIED to him, and we do use MB principles in our MARRIAGE...CS, you are a STRANGER to me, one, IMO, that is doing a terrible disservice to SB, as he tries to learn the MB program, of which, you are very clearly, not well versed...Also CS, let me further point out the obvious to you...I am NOT married to you, so you are not afforded the privilege of my use of MB principles towards you...Especially when I see you hindering others who are trying to teach/learn...That's just the way it works CS!

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To be honest, SB, from your posts-it does not seem that the affair caused the disintegration of your marriage. It appears that your wife incorrectly chose the arms of another man as an escape; however, she was probably going to do a dash anyway. It also appears that she and her parents believe that you are abusive and they view your religious conversion is insincere.

CS, to turn a phrase on you, it is "your words here [that] are very revealing"...In fact, much of what you say here is spoken like a true Wayward Wife DEEP in the Fog...That's who you are, isn't it CS? You are SB's Wayward Wife! The logic follows, to be sure...The more you post, the foggier your writing becomes, which serves to make it all the clearer for those of us that have witnessed the fog before...Seriously, now fog is literally dripping from your fingertips as you type. In fact the more you post, the more the fog spills, thus causing your posts to be riddled with incriminating "fogprints"...And CS, it is especially plain to see from my perspective as a FWW...

And CS, I understand that you don't want to trust his changes, I didn't want to trust Mr. W's either, but they were real...Here's what you have to understand, he is changing for him, regardless of whether the marriage works or not...THAT is what a good MB Plan A is all about-It is an action, NOT a reaction...The goal is for SB to become the best man and husband that he can be...He is responsible for his changes...Just as you are responsible for yours...We are only able to change ourselves, after all...

You should KNOW this, and you will eventually need to INTERNALIZE it...YES it was too the AFFAIR that caused the disintegration of the marriage...AN AFFAIR IS NEVER A SOLUTION TO MARITAL PROBLEMS...NEVER! But WSs are MASTERS of shifting BLAME, so I get where you are coming from...I did that too, all WSs do that...

CS, it is not a good idea to be posting on your husband's thread-it doesn't help either one of you to do that-no objectivity can be had...So please start a thread of your own, humble yourself, ask questions, and let the good people here help you deal with your problems...THAT is the right way to go about this...Let go of your pride and allow yourself to begin healing...Let's talk about what happened, okay? You play nice and so will I...However, I must warn you, as a good friend of mine here is fond of saying, "Bullcrap has a very short shelf life here at MB", and that is true...So I will be glad to help you, but I won't let you lie to me or to yourself for that matter...So, let's cut to the chase CS, whaddaya say?

Mrs. W


FWW ~ 47 ~ Me
FBH ~ 50 ~ MrWondering
DD ~ 17
Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered

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Now for an update on the situation.

I got an e-mail from my family that gave me some much needed information on OM. Here's the story:

OM divorced his first wife on 12/15/98 after filing twice for divorce in 1997 and 1998 and he married his business partner's wife in 1999. He had one child with each of them. His divorce from his second wife was final 6/23/06, which is about a month after he met WW. In both cases, he initiated the divorce. And in both cases his wives requested restraining orders against him.

He has an 11/30/05 domestic violence protection order that was requested by the second wife for herself and her child.

On 7/7/06 a lien was filed against him for failure to pay child support in the amount of $1967.00. WW says he has custody of both children, so why would he have to pay CS?

There are also various payroll tax liens that have been filed against him.

So anyhow, I get this e-mail and I'm calm, cool, and collected when I call my WW tonight. I told her about all of the information I'd discovered out of concern for the safety of her and DD. She was surprized about a lot of it I think, but she played the shock down. Although she did ask me to repeat it once for her, which was the giveaway.

We had a great, and I mean a GREAT conversation. After explaining the information I had on OM and confirming that I've never cheated on her during our marriage, I offered to hear how my actions had damaged her heart and our marriage. She said she feels like she never really knew me and that she felt rejected by me in many ways throughout the years - spiritually, emotionally, and sexually. She elaborated on the sexual part and I'll be looking into that more. She opened up to me about how I'd failed to meet her most important emotional needs for conversation, affection, and sexual fulfillment. I acknowleged my mistakes, apologized and, most importantly, asked for her forgiveness. She granted me some of the forgiveness I'd requested and witheld it on other items. We discussed the sincerity of the changes we were both making and she was relieved to hear that I'd scheduled IC at home during my leave. She became overwhelmed toward the end and I respected her need to end the conversation after a quick prayer. She asked for healing and I asked for God to give me the wisdom and ability to nourish and cherish my wife.

God's timing is amazing and I am truly thankful that I'm not home quite yet, despite some serious urges to do whatever it takes to get there and fight in person. I feel like I've still got so much to learn, but I'm getting great help from God and this site. Thanks to all. Keep up the prayers and the support.

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Mrs. W -

Wow... That's a very X-Files conclusion that CS is my WW!!! Not sure I'm in agreement here, but anything's possible. It is interesting that I'm the only thread she posts on.

I found a great quote today regarding personal change and marriage:

Love seems the swiftest but it is the slowest of all growths. No man or woman really knows what perfect love is until they have been married a quarter of a century. ~Mark Twain

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sbmmal

how are you going today? hope all is well with you.

I too have to agree with Mrs W, CS is almost certainly a WW and there is some inkling of thought that imo that she is your Wife - X files music playing, however its hard to actually be 100% positive.

Much of what CS has said are the same kind of thoughts and reasoning I went through as a ww. Especially the 'blame the H bit', Or God or the times or anything or anyone other than myself. No a ww does not like accepting that "their" actions are those that broke a M.

There may be many reasons why a person will cheat, BUT there are no excuses. NEVER.
If a M is so bad, that there is no hope or commitment of improving it to a level that is acceptable to both, then you need to consider leaving it.

Having an affair is a cop out. That is you avoid the HARD work of actually trying to do something about a M under threat for whatever reason.

The real work will start when you go home and are actually able to do work on the M and offer your wife an opportunity to work on it as well. That is, Plan A or equivilent, I do recommend you seek out the Harleys for a great plan as they have proven to be very effective in tailoring plans to suit the situation.
For now keeping open the lines of communication, even as they are, is the best way to go. Let her tell you what she feels, doesn't matter if you think its not the 'truth', right now its her truth and you need to only listen and accept its what SHE feels.
This shows that you have learnt to listen to her, though you may not of course fully agree with her.
I can tell you this is so important for her to see this, but dont expect miracles. It didn't take a few months for your M & relationship to get where you are now and it won't take a few months to rebuild or have a new realtionsip.

Again I do encourage you to seek the Harleys to make a plan and perhaps your wife will be willing to join in this with you.

prayers for you and your family
AW


Life may feel as if you are constantly getting kicked on a daily basis, living is about picking yourself up each day and going on and on and on regardless.

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AW,

Thanks for your comment and prayers from the other day on both threads. I'm thankful you are praying for us here and for my family back home. I too hope that I will return to a repentant wife.

Feeling like there is certainly some light at the end of this tunnel. Especially after WW's reaction to the truth I was giving her. I am finding a lot out about the OM today by looking up court records. He has a bad habit of divorcing women, getting restraining orders put on him, and of not paying his taxes. A real catch and more proof that WW's cheat with lesser men. Obviously only lesser men would stoop to the deplorable level of pursuing a relationship with a lonely wife of a deployed soldier. Especially when he was a soldier himself!!! It's just good to have some proof of the hypothesis in my case.

I have an appointment with Jennifer Harley Chalmers tonight (tomorrow AM on this side of the world). I'm going to talk Plan A and make sure I'm ready for what's next. Invited WW on the phone and she declined. Not ready to face the truth quite yet but possibly emerging from the fog a bit.

I think you are right, to just hear her out, no matter how she feels and, like I saw somewhere else on MB, install a hopper to ensure fog-based thoughts aren't taken on by me as truth... We can't keep discussing something she won't acknowledge and I can't tolerate - the cop out that you describe.

Praying for you, your family, and your Husband. The Austrailian Soldiers have it a lot harder from my perspective than American Soldiers, as there are more of us to go around and the rotations seem to be less frequent, although longer in duration as we continue our 5th year of this effort. My hats off to him and to your family for sticking it out through thick and thin like you are!!!

All I am and will become in Him,
sbmmal

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This much I can say with complete confidence: if your WW were to come on here and post, she would sound just like CS.

If she actually is here reading, that can be good.

If it reaches the point where you need to do classified planning, and would not want to take the chance that you might be forewarning your WW, email Melody Lane and ask her for assistance.

It is good that you listened to your WW about all her issues, and it is good that you understand the hopper concept, too. You don't want to just dismiss it all as fog, but think of it more as clues how you can better meet those needs in the future, than any type of accurate picture of the past.

She is not capable of giving you an undistorted assessment right now, and yet you can still learn from what she tells you, as long as you don't take it too personally. Be as objective as possible. If you were doing everything as wrong as she says, she would have left you a long time ago. So just take this as a chance to fine-tune your woman-pleasing skills.


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



Neak's Story
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I didn't read the story, but this little quote is from the longtime MB members thread, and it was interesting to me after our discussion on trust from the other day.

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This is my first post: requesting Prayers to learn to trust again

i suppose the title might seem odd... since i was the WW, that i needed to learn to trust again. But it made perfect sense to me. I needed to learn to trust my DH again in order to figure out how to get out of the mess i created.

I think the poster's name was FinallylrningT2H.


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



Neak's Story
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NSYN,

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She is not capable of giving you an undistorted assessment right now, and yet you can still learn from what she tells you, as long as you don't take it too personally. Be as objective as possible. If you were doing everything as wrong as she says, she would have left you a long time ago. So just take this as a chance to fine-tune your woman-pleasing skills.

Yep. Right on and exactly what I'm trying to explain to all the doubters and haters... I'm doing this for me and DD. WW will see the light and realize what a fool she's been. Either way I'm a better man for it, so expending all this energy, time, and money is an investment in the future - whatever it has for me.

Clock is ticking for reality to set in with WW. I'll be home in less than a week I'm thinking. I'm jotting some notes down for my call with MB tonight. I plan on discussing the following items:
  • Perfecting Plan A
  • Placing Emphasis on What's Worked in the Marriage
  • Stopping Lovebusters
  • Offering Forgiveness and Understanding
  • Directly Communicating the Hurt and Devastation the Infidelity has Caused
  • Not Accepting Blame for the Infidelity
  • Establishing and Maintaining Boundaries
  • What to Expect for Withdrawal
  • How to Develop an Adequate Recovery Plan

I hope this all fits into a most expensive hour of therapy.

Request for your continued prayers that I will be ready for the battles that lie ahead and for the endurance, or better yet, the perseverance to march onward and maintain forward momentum with God's grace and my humility.

Listening to a little Mercy Me's Undone and soaking it all in right now. "To the cross I run, holding high my chains undone. Now I am finally free, free to be what I've become - Undone!!! Hallelujah, I'm undone!"

Lyrics - Mercy Me "Undone"

All I am and will become in Him,
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Did you say anything about a religious conversion? If you did, I missed it.

Quote by CS - "It also appears that she and her parents believe that you are abusive and they view your religious conversion is insincere."

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True, I was under the impression SB had always been converted, but was simply discovering new depths to his walk.


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



Neak's Story
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Who knows, Neak? I wonder if his wife has a friend that is former Navy, with a Marine husband, as CS stated in the little bit of her story that she posted?

At any rate, I hope she sticks around.

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Let me respond by stating that my marriage has not disintegrated.


Your marriage did disintegrate. That's why you came to this site.

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My words are revealing because they are honest. What do I have to gain from lying on this site?


There is much to be gained from lying to ourselves, that is why people do it. One thing that is to be gained is the reduction of cognitive dissonance-that is the discomfort we experience when we realize our actions are in direct and blatant conflict with our own view of right and wrong.

Based upon your earlier posts, I believe that you refused to see your role in this situation. You said "I never hit my wife" and "I have not yelled at her since November." As if THAT alone was proof that your in-laws' and wife's accusation of abuse was looney. One co-signer in this forum even alluded to the idea that your wife should see what "real" controlling behaviors are like.

A few of the posts began to take on the "that crazy woman" tone. With plenty of co-signers here to share the pain of their spouse's infidelity, that part was easy and fairly predicatble.

SB, support is important but it must be the right kind of support for it to be meaningful and for it to help us. We need people who will tell us the truth even when we do not want to hear it. I do not think that this was happening for you with some of the folks who responded in this thread.

I am so glad you are finally admitting that you abused your wife. (I am hoping she will admit that your abuse was not an excuse for infidelity.) That is the first step towards healing. I am very happy that you came to the decision to do admit what you did and also to do your part to remedy the situation (not just "leave it to God.") As long as you are willing ot do this, you guys have a real chance.

I wish you the best of luck.

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I have visited the marriagebuilders site before there was a forum. I was surprised when I returned and saw one so I read a few of the posts.

You may have missed this but I only commented in this thread because I saw that SB is military-like me and husband are.

I don't have a "story." To my knowledge, my husband has never cheated on me and I have not cheated on him. The biggest thing we are focused on @ the moment is refinancing our mortgage. Exciting..I know...

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See again, CS, I just truly wonder where you are getting your information regarding infidelity...When I was in my affair, I too accused Mr. W of being controlling...And in our case, THAT IS LAUGHABLE-He is far from controlling...But the "controlling cry" is very often heard from a WS, because it makes for a great smoke screen...You know in the mind of a WS, the best defense is most often an agressive offense...It's just the name of the game CS...


I am getting my information from SB. I am reading his words. And you will (or you should) feel embarrassed when you read SB's comments stating that he admits to abusing his wife.

It is childish and illogical to try to conclude that something is "wrong" with me because I am brave enough to ask the questions that no one wants to or perceptive enough to see the subtle clues in people's words.

After all the proof is here in the thread. SB admits to abusing his wife. My suspicion / question was dead right.

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I was happy to read your update with the exception of this part:

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I offered to hear how my actions had damaged her heart and our marriage. She said she feels like she never really knew me and that she felt rejected by me in many ways throughout the years - spiritually, emotionally, and sexually. She elaborated on the sexual part and I'll be looking into that more.

Sir, you listed her sources of rejection as the following:
-spiritual
-emotional
-sexual

Yet you chose to look into the sexual "a little more"? May I suggest that you begin by looking into the first two before you look into that one. The first two are far more important and repair of these will likely lead to repair of the latter.

Good luck to you.

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First, if I am your wife then all of the conversations "we" have been having about repairing "our" marriage is BS. If your wife is in this thread posing as me-she is deceiving you about being interested in a reconciliation. And, God along with your alleged efforts are failing horribly.

I intended to read and not post; however, I saw you were military and I read your story. According to my husband, during each Middle Eastern deployment he has been on-many of the troops have had this happen to them; a letter comes from their significant other basically saying, "You suck. It's over." With me being military, how could I not comment on your story?

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If you actually read and interpreted my words for yourself rather just being a bandwagoneer, you would find that I am in agreement with you on this main point:

SB's wife was wrong to cheat on him.

I advocate leaving an abusive spouse; however, I do not agree with infidelity.

To be clear: There is absolutely no excuse for infidelity.

But make no mistake: The infidelity did not cause the marriage to disintegrate-SB still wants to maintain the marriage in spite of the infidelity. The infidelity was the wife's (inappropriate) response to a disintegrated marriage-The wife wanted out because of the abuse and chose an escape route that she felt was easiest.


This man has finally admitted to abusing his wife.

I'll say that again.


This man has FINALLY admitted to ABUSING HIS WIFE.


You all berated me for even DARING to ask the question, but so far-no one seems to notice that he has admitted to this...

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Please explain this:

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I too hope that I will return to a repentant wife.


Are you saying your wife is not even acknowledging that the affair was wrong?



Please elaborate on this:

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I think you are right, to just hear her out, no matter how she feels and, like I saw somewhere else on MB, install a hopper to ensure fog-based thoughts aren't taken on by me as truth

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