Dorry

sometimes there is only one lesson when being criticized

and that lesson is

GET AWAY this is a very angry person who BITES !

and if you look beyond that ... you like to be bitten <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

the trick is ... figuring out who is simply a biter & who is not

Pep

LA,

I've been around here in one way or another for over six years - heck, in August it will be seven. <note to self: Life. Find one.>

Ahem. Anyway...

I want you to know that I happen to think you are one of the most beautiful souls on this board - EVER.

You are unfailingly thoughtful and caring... and smart, too.

What Pepperband and Dorry said is true... and I'll add this, and it comes from personal experience: Sometimes what people say about you (to your face or behind your back) is not really *about you* at all. It is about THEM and how they FEEL when they read your words. It's all about perception, baby. And with all the raw nerves, brokenness, and tender feelings (during and after infidelity) it's amazing we all don't rip each others heads off more often.

You do good, LA. Real good. Okay?

Got it, NB...appreciate it...I'm still learning how to not thwart myself...

I do understand projection...and felt this was projection...but as Pep and Dorry pointed out, I really do have a kernel here to find in me...I was destructive to be punishing before, in my marriage...I wanted to be right NOT married...and I believed if I kept my intent pure, I would not be destructive.

I hear you saying I'm not...I would heartily ask for a review of that thread to really see...because my doubt is great...I bore no anger, some frustration, and a deep desire to impart freedom...I very well may have overstepped and if so, I would like to not betray myself or others in that way.

That kernel is a slippery, tiny beast...and yes, Pep...I've had a problem with not knowing a kernel from the chaff...nor how to spell chaff.

I remember feeling put down by JustLearning at first...and fighting back...and I know from reading JL all this time, his intent remains consistently pure, loving...I don't want mine to go astray: I've been tricky with myself before.

I want to respectfully not address someone (Pep and the bites thing) without retaliation...I know they look the same on the outside and inside is what matters.

I'm with Dorry...this really bit hard...and there's something to it...thank you for not tsking it away...I don't know another way right now to convey how I learned, what I learned...maybe I will.

I lived with crazymaking and fear I do that, or am seen as doing that when I say, "I'm not attacking you. This is me supporting you," and them believing they are torn down, anyway.

At fault. Blamed. When I do not believe in blame at all...just power, our own...so somehow, this pain I'm feeling, is coming from doubt, which is fear sneaking in and stopping me...instead of me, as I have before when I felt bit, holding that fear and posting anyway.

This is different. Kernel sleuths welcome...why this time? Maybe I was retaliating against him...I know I can't fight someone else's resentment...their feelings...they are theirs alone. And since I was that way and I've lived through it, why don't I trust others to get there, too? Is that the kernel? Trust?

NB...I was amazed humans could act this well, choose this level of respect and compassion; it was foreign to me when I came here. Amazing and doable. I want to keep doing it.

LA

LA

sometimes the "kernel" arrives days or weeks later

just remain open

You are fine

relax & don't freak-out <~~~ from the 60s ... screw the 70s

LOL

Pep

totally understand...recently someone read into one my posts, a veiled attack...and i didn't know I was doing it as I was just expressing a pOV and thought I was doing it okay...made me really look and see - wow - what I thought was clearly expressing my POV was taken as me resenting and attacking...NOT how I wanted to come across...and these from people who AREN'T biters (good word pep)

SO...back to figuring out how to communicate better.

This is very interesting and hard for me as I talk ALOT..and have lots of opinions <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I lived a marriage where I was right instead of married, like you LA...and my H and I are complete OPPOSITES...

with both of us changing, this is everyday getting better and better in our marriage...respecting eachother's POV and perspectives...that if one of us didn't mean to hurt, but it hurt, not to brush the other one off by saying - well I didn't mean it to hurt - so so sad you took it that way, instead learning how to better the communication

BUT also balancing it with the fact that somethings you say will hurt, and you can't avoid it...

THE biggest thing for me is my motivation....Jesus motivated all he said with not the need to be right, but the offering to save all and recall all for God...so am I trying to correct or be RIGHT to people based on ME - who is NOT everyone else? Or am I trying to help people to God...as God is the only person who can really make changes...

That's been my latest struggle...

Great point, Pep...being at cyberspeed doesn't aid me in realtime knowing...I needed that reminder...you ol' fart...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

That was for the 70's slam. LOL

And yes, staying open is the key, because I still have that turtle reaction to feeling pain...withdraw, be cautious, don't misstep...which leads to what dear Dorry says...

I stay very conscious of not getting in God's way...and if I choose to withdraw, be cautious, looking at how I'm stepping instead of being bravely going where I fear...

Then I'm in his way, aren't I? Then I'm doing the very thing against my intent because I am my focus.

:::::

How long, Pep, until I get it all?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Don't answer that...it was a self-indulgent rhetorical question...

You know, I hold to believing it isn't what you do for a living in this life, but who you do it with...and I can't imagine greater people to be doing my life work with than you all...

LA

You know what, LA?

In the last ten years I have felt like one of the old Super Balls from my childhood -- remember those? They bounced SO HIGH and you barely had to touch them... just drop them and they'd bounce and bounce and bounce...

I've been trying to find my own balance... bouncing from being judgementally cruel (my way or the highway) to un-judgementally compassionate (everything goes, all we need is love). What I didn't realize (until now) is that you can believe something is wrong and claim that, and STILL be compassionate.

We choose our friends, we choose which TV shows to watch, and we decide, somewhere within ourselves, what is right and wrong. All of that comes from judgement. It just *is* what it is.

So, you try not to harm (and I try very hard, myself) and you try to say what you need to say in the least offensive ways (which I also attempt but fail miserably at times)... but you know, sometimes... it harms anyway.

So yeah, look for the kernel(s)... all learning experiences... but also... don't be so hard on yourself.

I remember Super Ball! And how annoying they were...because of how high they could go...retrieving them was difficult for me.

I don't feel I am being hard on myself...and yes, I was one to go to extremes, even up to a year ago...I kept trying to change by doing a 180 from those kernels, and then slowly working my way back to my goal of 90 degrees...

Now I can usually get there by turning 90 degrees...so maybe what I hear you saying is I might be back to my old spinning...along with Pep's time allowance...and yes, my old self was held to my own Hypocratic oath...first, do no harm...

And that is impossible. I'm human. I can only control my intent, choose to come from love, and let go the results.

I may have needed that reminder from you, NB...just from you.

Thank you.

LA

I think yall just solved my problem too

Same here, Dorry. Same here.

LA,

If I helped you at all today, it is my privilege.

Don't under-estimate what you have brought to me (and Dorry too, by the looks of it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)... and anyone who reads this.

All one big circle, you know?

Have a great weekend!

You, too, NB...about having a great weekend and the privilege of us all being in this human circle.

I want to be hokey and say, "You done my ol' heart good."

Omygosh...I said it.

LOL

Hugs to all of you...

LA

Plank,

Great thread. Seems people find it easy to dish out and some even ask for 'honest input' but when it is given.....some hide behind their own fears of change.

I learned to take the lemons from life and make lemonade. What we can't use.....just discard.

LA,
You have been here a while, long enough to experience the +/- of life @ MB. Not much different than real life outside of MB, just concentrated so you feel the effects in amore intense fashion. At least that's what I've learned. If you ask any of those who have been here a few years....they will tell you. My experiences have included helping some as far away as England (got Scotland yard involved.....long story), yet I was also told off royally by an BS poster who didn't like it when I warned her that her WS' recovery should handled with care and she shouldn't 'assume' he was back for good. Within 2 weeks after she told me off, he left. The recovery was false and I don't believe she posts here anymore. How do I feel? I was hurt but not enough to put me off track. I was more sad to see their false recovery. It could have been a learning experience for her but she choose to have anger instead. See, by then I knew myself well enough to know not all will like what I have to say and that's ok.

Know you are a good poster. Don't expect everyone to like you but some will and that s/b enough.

take care,
L.

Dear All,

I'm a bit of a weirdo concerning human relationships. I'm not very good at what is conventional (would that be the right word <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />?) or "normal".

I have learned a lot from your insights and practical solutions from you all. As much as I like the gentle way, I also love the "no crap will be taken as prisoner" attitude <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

This probably is another weirdo post?
Never mind.
I'm getting my sense of humor (humour?) back and that had been gone too long !

Have a splendid week y'all, and if it is as hot over there as it is in Belgium.. keep cool !

Bravo Brownhair,

I just sent off a letter to some of H's siblings. It was about how to handle 'drama queens'. Some want to take the 'nice approach' (which in this case has had NO long lasting effect) and I walk with RB route. LOL!!!

Sometimes u just gotta take the high and bit rough road to get where u need t/b.

Btw, it's quite warm here too. I never thought Belgium t/b a 'hot place'. Guess I gotta go read my geography books again. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Aloha,
L.

Hello Orchid !
Yes, we've been having some very stuffy hot days in Belgium.. It seems nothing is conventional anymore, haha. When I found out the "wettest spot on earth" wasn't in Belgium but actually mount Waialeale I was rather shocked <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.
I moved my plumeria trees outside so they now think they're back home..

I'd like to add..
I went through some other boards before I found MB. You cannot BELIEVE what goes on on some of them. I couldn't find a decent forum in Belgium.. So much nonsense, so judgmental, so little insight, so little caring ! Anyone who would be a little more insightful or wouldn't agree with what some of the posters were saying would be flamed as being as old fashioned, or a bigot, or be bombarded with completely meaningless, sexist, hurtful remarks. I cannot repeat it because it will simply turn into ************************ here <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So I sometimes smile a little when some posters feel "attacked" when I can sense nothing but concern and care from the so-called "attackers". And when perhaps I feel hurt sometimes by some remark addressed at me - I have to remind myself to get things into perspective.

For me, this would be a great thing if I got to the point where some posters did not like me. I am learning to eliminate or atleast live with a fear of what people think of me. If I was not liked on here by some, then that tells me that I am learning to be real and unafraid. At the beginning, I was even afraid to post to strangers or chose my words VERY carefully... couldn't have people not like me even in an anonymous forum. Sometimes saying things pointed or hard on these forums can also be for the one saying them... to get through some anger or past some fears like in my case.

Also, I believe that we all take advice differently. Some need it to be wrapped in kindness and gently coaxed... others only hear the 2X4's... and then some listen best when tag-teamed by the "good cop, bad cop" style. Sometimes the intitial reaction is anger to words posted, but when you have a chance to calm down and re-read the post, the tough ones are the words that sink in. All forms of posts are needed. It is up to each of us to choose whether we read and listen to them.

I would suggest (and maybe my first controversial thought which will get some not liking me... hopefully)... that if a person on here cannot handle tough words from an anonymous voice... then they also do not have the maturity and strength to handle any type of M, let alone the toughness required for recovery from an A.

Shaden

I would also add that if someone posting is really interested in helping... rather than just hearing themselves talk (or type), then that person should be attempting to choose a style or approach which fits the person needing help... to be most effective.

Unfortunately, there are so many people and so little time to analyze each case, so probably sticking with one style and throwing that at as many people as possible works the best. We read on here about "cliques", and some posters complain about them... but I would suggest that they are just groups of people who have found that their styles fit with each other... nothing wrong with that.

Shaden

I don't like Shaden

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hee hee

Pep

Thanks, Pep... that's my first.

Does that mean I'm no longer a virgin???? (I know... very poor taste in humour on this type of forum... but I'm on a role!)

Shaden