Okay, still more help.....some background- one of the things that was a sticking point all through our marriage was sex. He wants a lot- like, daily, and would be mad if I didn't. So it was a constant fight. It is really the biggest thing we fought about.

Now, after my EA, I thought that if I made sex really really important that would be a lovebank filler. One thing to know is that he told me that if he said he did't want have sex it really meant that I had to try harder becasue he really DID want to have sex. So I almost "forced" him into doing it- meaning harassing him into doing it. He always did, and seemed to like it, ha ha. But last night he said he didn't want me to harangue him into doing it and that he sometimes liked it and sometimes didn't. A few weeks ago- right before Father's day- he told me he wanted a "break" from sex, so I said ok. Then the very next day, he said something to initiate sex, and I said I thought he wanted a break and he said, "No way, it's Father's Day!" So you see the mixed signals I'm getting?

I thought making the "sex fight" disappear, it would be an immediate thing that would show him how much I am willing to change and how much I love him, while working on the other things that would take longer to see. I haven't had a "nighttime angst" in a long time, in fact even DH noticed that it had been a week, but he said he was tired of my haranging him into having sex.

I'm also afraid that by not having sex with me, the thing that is super important to him, he is making another step away from me. But then I think that if I respect his wishes it will be better.............but then as you can see from what I posted above, those may not really be his wishes! He said last night that he is not initiating sex, which is not true but I didnt' point it out.

I don't know what to do. He said yesterday he really didn't care about our marriage, which from what I've read is the real opposite of love (apathy instead of hate).

Help. You all have such good suggestions and advice, and I feel so blessed to have found this site.

Thanks

Someone has to have SOMETHING to say to help me!! LOL. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Attract him with your sensuality ...

Sex daily is not a bad thing ... if it keeps your husband feeling loved at home.

Have you read Dr Laura's book

The Proper Care And Feeding Of Husbands

the title is a bit obnoxious ... but the content is useful

it taught me some things I needed to hear & was not hearing on this site

most libraries carry it

Pep

Mrsrob,

I have had the same problem within my M. I have a very active libido.

For me I have noticed that if I don't have it I get grumpy I think it is a build up of testostorone.

Now for me I made it clear to my FWW I wanted more. So here is how she went about it. Do you want to fool around tonight because if you do I need to shower and shave etc. Seemed like an inconveinence to me.

I asked her to dress up in some nice lingerie for me. I asked her to initiate in a way other then, Hey you wanna fool around?

It is a slippery slope in that he probably feels like it is an inconveinence to you.

If you really want to meet his needs. Then he needs to beleive you want to do it. Not that you are doing it to get forgiveness. Motive matters to a BS.

So maybe try it in a different way. Hug him and kiss him and be intimate and if it goes down the SF road then so be it. Get on some of your nicest stuff and then call him into the room.

Don't just do it because you think that is what he wants.

MrsRob,

HL has it. Throughout the day touch, words etc... to get him in the mood, same as you would want. Kiss here and there, hold hands, pat on the rump (See the Grope thread). Admiration and respect are keys here.

Being a BS puts a person in a very weird place and sometimes nothing can help others a BS feels helpless and needs extreme comforting.

Keep trying, but don't be a doormat. Establish boundaries and stick to them. Being a doormat will only make things worse and you will definintely lose self respect and some days that's all we have.

Keep up the good work. I know it's hard, but you are doing a really good job.

But if he says he doesn't want to have it, should I be okay with that instead of trying to "convince" him?

What often happens is that he'll indicate througout the day that it will be something he wants, then he says, "no, I'm not interested" when the time comes.

It really hurts my feelings.

And the "I don't really care about you." Hurts.

But he says I love you when we say prayers and go to bed, he says I love you when I leave for work.....

The irony is that one of the reasons I had an EA was because I felt like my EN were not being met. Now in order to keep my marriage I have to not have my EN be met, unless he accidentally does.

I hate that I did this to myself and that I may lose the best thing I ever had.

Remember what I said about the BS fog, at times it's the same as WS fog. Be like a duck and let it roll off you back like the rain. Eventually the skies will clear and the rain will stop. Soooooo do not let him see how his rude and mean ways are affecting you. He is being a bully right now, ignore his remarks and he will start to wonder why and maybe ask. Also look for the 180 thread, it might be time for that.

Take my first advice and if that doesn't work then try something else.

Let me put it this way- You think you are doing the right thing and you may not.

It may not be SF at all for him. It may be something that he gets from it. A sense of power, masculinity etc that might be missing right now.

So instead of getting it from the SF he gets it by having you put yourself out there just to reject you.

As a man our pride is really hurt by these things and he may be trying to get it back in a hurtful non productive way.

Next time he does it try a different road. For example you make your move he says no. Try saying ok honey you just looked so hot today it put me in the mood. Well I can wait but don't make me wait to long it will drive me crazy.

This will fan his ego and might give him what he is trying to take.

So last night I just didn't freak when he didn't want to have sex. He said I have "poisoned" everything-sprayed Round-Up on it, and he doesnt' know if he'll ever be able to get it back.

Then during the night he snuggled and made sexual comments he says he doesnt' remember.

He makes mean comments about me- this morning he wanted me to weigh myself in front of him. He has this theory that because I have a lot of exercise videos and such and I am still quite overweight, that I am "short term" and a bad person. This from the man who has almost 100 cookbooks and doesn't use them, who goes through phases- breadmaking, soap making, cheesemaking- buys all the stuff and then abandons it. But of course if I point that out I'm just trying to justify myself.

This morning he said something about "thankfully you didn't go on and on last night..." and I said "are you saying I should have gone on and on?" and he said "no, I'm glad you didn't."

But I'm afraid that he'll go looking for someone else....I pointed out that he wouldn't know about anyone else, either, and he said, "I'm okay with blissful ignorance. Knowing you're a w***e is what's bad."

It is hard trying to feel like Heavenly Father is forgiving me when my H is not.

Thanks for any more advice/comments

Also, Hurting less, I may be dumb, but what is SF??

And Eagle, what is the 180 thread?

MrsRob,

SF is Sexual Fullfillment

Couldn't find link, but here is the 180 stuff.

Michelle Weiner Davis's divorce busting 180 degree list

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic.
23. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.

Eagle,

As a WS...not sure the 180 would be a good message to her BS <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

A WS plan Aing her husband after the affair, is a fine line...been there...

As I said on another thread...Mrs Rob needs patience and calmness...her husband is hurting and testing her...

Mrs

Please add a signature line with the details.
Most importantly is D Day date.

I see you registered on 6/27 which isn't very long.

As a man the thought of your W with another man is hurtful on so many different levels.

I think what you are trying to do is fix this as quickly as possible which is commendable. However he needs some time to wrap his head around this thing.

Each person is different as far as wrapping their head around it.

Right now he may not want SF. He might want the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

He might want to be able to communicate his feelings to you safely.

He might want to talk about the A for a week straight so he can try to figure things out.

You are assuming that what he wanted before your A is what will make it better now.

Something is missing, what it is I don't know because I don't know your H.

For me my FWW thought that SF was the answer. It wasn't it was open honest communication in a safe environment.

It was hard for me to want to have SF because I don't need to feel a huge bond to have it but I certainly don't want to feel overwhelmingly angry at her.

If I did sometimes I would but it certainly wasn't a loving caring thing.

Maybe that is where he is. Maybe he is trying to make you feel the hurt that you caused him. Sometimes it stinks hearing those things but they are said in the beginning. Hold on and don't rush. Ask the right questions of him and you may be suprised at the answers.

How about this...

What I experienced in my marriage was two people believing we earned love, therefore, we earned punishment...

If MrsRob's BS...is testing, poking, prodding, attacking, punishing...why absorb, take and condone? Wouldn't this continue the pattern?

Hurting back? Like the A? Why not clean up, remove the permissions and express to him that his pain matters...no punishment, hurting back, required.

She could state her thoughts, feelings and beliefs...own her stuff...and not take a beat-down from him because it is harming the marriage...just as her A did...

It is a rough, fresh time...I believe long-term recovery has a lot to do with early recovery...the precedents...intent is everything...

As for SF...would it be possible that he has images from the EA...feeling replaced emotionally as physically? His heart longs to be close to MrsRob...when his mind shuts down, in sleep, he maybe shows this...but awake, the betrayal is foremost, the hurt back, the why hurt at all...gets in the way.

Calling names is abusive...saying, "Calling me a ***re is abusive. And it tells yourself you have a ***re as a wife, which is abusive to you. I believe name-calling is attacking our marriage."

The more you work on your own resentment issues, MrsRob...and share what you're doing, how you're doing it and how much it means to you...the more he will see your true commitment...and maybe, he'll get a line on his own resentment...pre-A...because it was on both sides of the marriage.

Good boundaries...healthy marriage. No boundaries because you don't deserve them because of what you've done and how he feels? Well, you didn't have them pre-A...and that didn't work, either, did it?

How are you doing getting rid of LBs? Listen and repeat? Not owning what isn't yours? Being safe for your BH to share with?

Hang in there...you're on the road to redemption, by choice...it's a long walk, with a view...

LA

LA is right -boundaries are a must - but so is patience..it is a fine line to walk on...a 180 though I think would send her husband the wrong message...

GOOOS post

Whenever I bring up that name calling and other things hurt the marriage he says, "who are you to talk? Don't preach to me w***e. Look what YOU did to the marriage."

He says that SF with me makes me more "powerful" over him. He says it clouds his thinking. So that is why I stress out over SF so much- is that the thing that's "clouding his judgement" towards staying? So if it goes away he thinks it's better to leave?? See the conundrum?

I am feeling kind of hopeless right now. He says he is still staying married, he just doesn't care about it anymore. And I couldn't make him fill my EN's before- not that he was horrible or anything- so here is what I see in my future- me filling his EN's as best I can and making changes in myself to better myself- and not having any of my own EN's filled.

But that's a chance I'll have to take. Because I love him.

HL, how do I do the signature thingy?

D-day was March 28, 2006

"Whenever I bring up that name calling and other things hurt the marriage he says, "who are you to talk? Don't preach to me w***e. Look what YOU did to the marriage."

Response: You are right I have really hurt this M and I really want to try to repair the damage I have done. It is hard to not be defensive or be hurt by your words. I know you have these feelings right now but I cannot accept being called those names.

No I don't see the conundrum? What I see is someone who has different needs. SF might have made him happy before but now he wants more and quite frankly is entitled to more.

He might want to talk like I said before or something else.

Let me tell you a little about my story. My FWW needed communication. She called me between 3-6 times a day and we talked for an hour everynight on my way home.

She kept sticking to her guns about me not asking her how her day was. One day I gave up. I said then we may as well get a D. She was a wee bit suprised. She asked why. I said quite honestly I can't do any better then that. I really can't. I am not afraid to admit that I won't be able to meet that need fully. If that isn't enough then we might as well just call it a day.

I said not only that but you have said time and time again as a justification it wasn't. You have never even so much as given me credit for that. Instead of saying you wanted to talk more you said we never talk.

I don't know how many couples talk as much as we do.

So I figured out I couldn't meet her needs and why continue. I don't know if there is another man that could or would take as many calls from her as I did but if she thought it was possible go for it.

The reason I bring this up is you may have brought up an EN that he quite honestly is doing the best he can at it.

If he thinks he can't meet your needs why bother? It will just lead to another A on your part. That is how I felt.

I also felt like if that wasn't enough why do it at all. No credit is no credit.

Remove the words always and never when talking about EN's replace them with I would like it more or less.

Instead of saying you never cuddle with me say I would like to cuddle more.

To add a signature when you log in go to the profile section.

It's hard to fill his EN becasue he won't take the quiz. I am waiting on the books, so maybe I can make an educated guess.

Is it possible to recover if he doesn't care any more??

Thanks for the hint on the signature...

Yes I believe it is because really and truly it's not that he doesn't care, he needs time to heal. It's too bad he feels the need to give you such a hard time verbally, try to let it roll off your back. I know it hurts, I've been on the receiving end of some pretty vile stuff from WW. A lot of it can never be forgotten, some never forgiven, but eventually we all come around.

Hang in there.

Bh did say at one point that "by the time I"m done being angry with you you'll probably resent what I've done to you and not want to be married to me anyway." So he does it knowing that could be a possible outcome. It is sometimes more than verbal abuse- not physical, but emotional. One time he flat out told me he'd be gone the next day, had made plans to move to AZ, had it all figured out- "How does that feel, N??" Of course, I was in tears (it was right as I was leaving for work, no less)- and I told him he'd ripped my heart out, and he said, "well, come and lie next to me." SO I did and he said, "I'm just kidding, I didn't mean any of it. I am just trying to make you feel as bad as I do."

ANd the problem is that there are resentments on both sides from before the EA.

He said that everything before the EA could be forgiven, he doesn't think he can forgive this.

My bishop said that if he can't forgive me, then it becomes his sin. I don't know how religious any of you are but he said that if you do something and someone doesn't forgive you that means they 1. Don't think the atonement of Christ should be allowed for that person and 2. They take it upon themselves to judge another person.

But the bishop also pointed out that BH can forgive me and still divorce me. There are always consequences.

I hate that I've done this to him and me and our marriage. It wasnt' a good one, but I should have been working on making it a good one.

Have any of you BS's had a big change of heart towards a truly repentant WS??

I would have killed for my WW and STBXW to have come home with a repentant, remorseful heart willing to learn why she had done what she had done to people that loved her. I don't know if our marriage would have survived or not but it would not have been from lack of trying on my part. I may not could "forget" and therefore divorced her anyway but I do know that our relationship would have been better than the one we have now where I hope to bury her (not literally but figuratively) more for her attitude and lack of remorse than anything else and for hurtin our children.

That said, I would try a "from the heart" letter showing that you really are starting to understand how he feels, how important he and the marriage are irregardless of your trying to destroy it, that you understand that this will take time and that you are in for the long haul, what you love about him, your willingness to be an open book to him in the future, your willingness to learn, ask him to come to this web site or counsel with a specialist in restoring M dealing with infidelity, tell him that you are not giving up and that if he does then you understand, but that it will be a mistake because of what you are learning about becoming a great wife, mother and so on.