This point came up several months ago in a post to another MB'er and I mentioned that when I get the chance I would try and explore it.

So, has your WS either directly or indirectly used an A for getting "back at you" for real or imagined sins of the BS, FOO's or just the world in general?

Was this a trait you saw early on in your relationship? Was anger much easier for your WS to proclaim as opposed to terms of endearment or caring?Did your WS profess anger at most of her family for one reason or another? Were you (BS) used as the scapegoat for all that went awry in the WS's life?

I know this encompasses the general description of a BPD but any and all input would be welcomed.

NO

on all counts

Pep

No, I can't say that at all for any of the questions.

Rin

Yes, he said he did it in part to "get back at me" for not supporting him in a business venture. Don't agree with him, saw it as justification. He is a salesman at heart and he used this to justify why he would have an A to the OW, I am/was such a bad person. I guess this is a nice way of saying manipulative. I hesitate to use that word as I don't believe the OW is a victim. In my WH sitch, he "listens" to the problem of the OP, suddenly our M is very poor, of course doesn't talk to me about it. WH holds his anger in, including with his FOO.

Yes, I was very much the scape goat for my WH in everything wrong in his life. His self esteem was nil, and both him and the OW would put me down.

No, I didn't see it before our M. No, anger is very hard for WH to express, he is both a CA and PA person.

Pep,

C'mon I need a little more than just no <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

no sir

tee hee

how much more do you want?

my H is going to come onto my puter soon and install a program ... so my time is limited right now...

'popcorn' ... so I can burn DVDs

KEWL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

"So, has your WS either directly or indirectly used an A for getting "back at you" for real or imagined sins of the BS"

I would say yes maybe but not quite sure. She has alluded to it but not said it outright.

Our biggest problem was she wanted to move and I didn't. She was angry about it that is for sure.

One time she said "if we would have just moved like I wanted none of this would have happened."

So I don't know if that qualifies. So it is a yes no maybe for me.

Yes and no..

It was a catch 22 for him. With a few conflicting ingrediants.

See, he was tempted to engage in behaviors that he was conflicted about..on the one hand it was pure hedonistic fun..on the other..he had a more than sneaking suspicion that it wasn't a good idea on many levels.

Fun won out..buuuuut....

He still had to justify it somehow.

He used any and every situation to do so..including issues that he intentionally did not tell me about because he knew that if he *did* tell me he had a problem with something I would take it seriously..and then he wouldn't have justification AND he wanted to avoid the additional conflict of acknowledging that for *me* him having a qualm about anything was reason enough to veto it and he wasn't willing to get caught in that trap because he knew that I would definitely have an issue with the sorts of things he was doing..so when he did have a complaint he kept it to himself...in fact he actively encouraged me to do things that he felt resentfull about in order to fuel that justification.

It was a house of cards destined to crumble and such a waste.

Not speculation by the way..this is what he told me in hindsight.

He said he was partially aware when doing it..but that he would push it from his mind in active rebellion.

Maybe the world in general for taking away my father and both my in laws in the same year.

I wouldn't say anger though.

No. Pure entitlement. He is The Boss and The Boss can do whatever he wants, after all.
Mulan

yes, with a lot of other justifications thrown in along with it....

Yes, my WW said she "did it to hurt me" for my exposure of her EA and by "it" she was refering to the PA. Since the EA was long established before the PA I don't know if she just said it as an excuse.

I did it out of anger, Cymanca...

I did it to punish...to further manipulate...

I experienced anger as pain...so this is hindsight, you see...it was anger...from pain...coming from fear...

I created a lot of resentment, had from a young age...and kept it, built on it through judgment, giving to get, and when I didn't get what I expected, then tit for tat.

I had the maturity of a five-year-old...maybe 8...

I firmly believe what I read here in someone's sigline...wish I could remember...

Definition of an Affair...Entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect.

That hit me so hard between the eyes, that to this day, when I retype it, I leave out the "e" in fueld, because it was in the sigline, and I have to back over...each time.

In your research, would you consider adding the question...did the WS live through others? Try to be filled up from the outside? I found that was behind my anger, resentment, entitlement...earning love from the outside...

Just a thought.

LA

for my h it was anger...but due to unmet needs because i was a workaholic and was deep in depression

after he left, his sister, who is a physician's assistant, tried to explain to him that depression is an illness....that i didn't mean to hurt him...i didn't mean to stop meeting his needs

he told her it didn't matter...he couldn't forgive me for not being there for him....for leaving him all alone...he even said he hated me for it...maybe that's why he's doing the same thing to me?

WW was getting back at me for her unhappiness. Of which, of course, I was the primary cause. She was VERY angry. Hated her life. Hated me. "You brought all this on, you know!"

Anger definitely an early trait.

LA,

In a brief moment of clarity my STBXW said almost exactly that, word for word.

Oh, I'm so sorry, Cymanca...for her moment not coming back again and again...I felt such shame as I came to understand the way I chose to live, to react...

Terrible shame. I think it could have choked me back into being wayward, had I not found my H's journals and read of his pain...

In a weird way, seeing how he felt, what he believed, and how crushed he was, showed me I had influence, where I believed I didn't...yes, I knew I could harm, but I didn't know I could matter. Living a paradox wasn't unusual for me.

Waking up was from that moment on...9/24/04...and I'm terribly happy to know I don't have to live that way ever again. Your STBXW chained herself to a repeating life...how horrible.

And in your sigline...Noodle's quote helped me as much as JL's lesson on DJs...interlinked...to change my choices and my marriage.

LA

LA,

I always felt that my WW was blown away by my reaction to what she did. I lost a lot of weight(I thought I looked good but I recently saw a picture of me during that time....a skeleton). Your statement about the surprise you felt having so much influence with your H really resonates with me. That also confused her and when she was confused and shamed she fell back on the only emotion that felt omfortable....anger. She knows that what was tolerated by me pre A would not see the light of day post A....which again brought out.... anger.

She subsequently went out and broke up two other relationships. And finally in retaliation for her best friend supporting me, she is now dating her divorced brother.

So you really do see her A as being about her, don't you?

Shame was the key to my life...being shame-based...and I was a serial cheater...so your STBXW's method of escape doesn't surprise me.

Oh, the wreckage...I escaped the guilt and shame of breaking up any other relationships...and only have to deal with my own marriage...which I've been beyond blessed in recovering...

If you are still attempting to come to something inside you about the whys...I would be happy to share anything you want to know. I know that discovering how I self-bashed, was angry with myself and projected it everywhere else...well, that was the addicts cycle...justifying what couldn't be justified...and coming close to understanding none of it was warranted, healthy or necessary...that nearly broke me apart.

Is there any comfort in believing someday she'll know? Or have you gotten to where you know where you end and she begins...?

LA