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#1714197 07/22/06 10:31 PM
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(In order not to interfere with the other theme/thread)


Is there anyone who is not a "Score Keeper"? (At least a bit ;-)
(I know none...)
Or maybe I don't quite understand the meaning of "score keeper"...

I.e. what does that really mean (to you)?

Isn't that, simply, you do something for someone and then you expect the same/similar things to be done for/to you?
Isn't it a simple comparison - 'my/their givings' vs. 'my/their takings'?
Anyone doesn't do that?

How 'negotiation' goes with/without this?

Just thinking loud <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Before you enlighten me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


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you know what? i thought about this question and i honestly do not think i am a score keeper. i do things because i honestly want to. because i care for someone, i do special things for them, or i put forth an effort. i am just a very giving person i think. i, of course, appreciate something in return if i get it, but i do not do things because i EXPECT something in return for it. i think that thinking is a good way to get resentful and hurt. it is always nice to get something in return for what we give but lets face it, it doesn't always happen. i don't sit and keep talley of "ok, i called him today so now it is his turn to call me.." or "ok, i sent him a card this week, so now he has to do something for me" i do things because it makes me feel good to do them and it genuinely makes me feel good to know that i have made someone else feel good by doing it.

some of the issues in AGG's thread i do not think would be issues for me. for example, if i am with someone who wants no more children that is fine. i have 2. i already did that in my life. if i wanted kids and the man i was with did not, i would not be with that man. i would not think "he will not make this sacrifice for me" i would think " this is someone i should not get serious with" you should NEVER get involved with someone thinking you can change them. "well, he says he doesn't want kids now, but i will change his mind" nope, don't go there. there are just certain things i think that should be ironed out long before things get serious so there aren't scorecards. in my sitch for example.... we both know we are open to more kids, but ok if we don't have more either (if things progress into something serious), we both know that if this gets serious it will be ldr... we have both agreed we would split the visits like one month i go, one month he comes here, etc.. but, i would not keep score if i happend to go there more than he came here, etc... maybe i have more money one month than he does so i make an extra trip, or whatever. so what? as long as we are getting time together who cares who is going where or making the trip. it is also already decided that i am more relocateable. if this gets serious serious i would go there. if i was not relocateable this would not be proceeding any further.. what would the point be? keep proceeding with the thought that i could convince him to move here and then be mad when he wouldn't? that's stupid! and selfish.

i guess the bottom line for me, in answer to your question, is no, i do not feel i keep score at all. i am a giver and if i get something in return, great, but if not, i did it because i wanted to, not because i expect to keep score. i put effort into a relationship because i want to, not because i keep score there either. now, if it was extreme and i was doing ALL the giving and a man was doing ALL the taking... well, than that is just not a healthy relationship anyway. i was married to THAT man! and that just equals selfish narcissisit!

mlhb


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I am not a scorekeeper. When I do something for someone, or give something to someone, I do it without any thought of getting anything in return except my own joy in the doing or giving. In fact, due to my own psychological issues, I am surprised when anyone does anything for me, no matter how much I may have done for them.

However, the fact that I do not keep score may actually be one of the principal factors in my seeming inability to form healthy relationships. Here's a revealing extract from Dr. Harley's Q&A article on Control, Dependency, and Identity:

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If I were to mail you a check for $1000 a month asking for nothing in return, at first you would be extremely grateful and pleased. You would most certainly like me, and you would regard me as a very generous person. You might put at least some of the money into savings, since it would give you more than you were used to spending. But if you are like most people, after a few months, the extra income would be absorbed into an improved quality of life. When that would happen you would become dependent on me for that check. In fact, you might already have spent it a week before the check would have arrived.



If my gift is one-sided, where I give you something, but you do nothing for me in return, you would find yourself truly dependent. In other words, you are dependent when what you receive is not balanced by what you give in return. Generosity and a willingness to sacrifice are usually the motives behind such one-sided giving, motives we all value. But because there is no reciprocity, it creates dependency.



Now I'll introduce another word, control.



At this point in my illustration, you might be a little nervous about your growing dependence on that monthly check I would be sending you. What if I stopped sending it? How would you compensate for the lost income? But in spite of some fears, you would still be grateful for the gift as long as I kept sending it.



Let's suppose I were to tell you there was something you could do for me to earn that check. Wait a minute, you might think. I thought this was a gift! What is this about "earning" the check? As alarmed as you might be, you might feebly ask what it was I wanted. Suppose I wanted you to mow my lawn once a week, and you had to do it yourself -- you couldn't hire someone to do it. How would you feel about mowing my lawn for $250 a week? That's a lot of money to mow a lawn, but compared to the original deal, $1000 a month for doing nothing, you might start to feel controlled by me. As you would be out mowing my lawn, you might be wondering what little tasks I would be thinking of next.



You probably would have wanted to do something for me anyway, after receiving my $1000 checks for a few months. But you would have wanted it to be a gift, not an assignment. If you are like most people, you would probably feel that I tricked you. You would think I gave you the money to make you dependent on me. And, once you were dependent, I would try to control you. Before long, I might have you completely enslaved, all for $1000/month!



Dependence and control go hand-in-hand. Once you reach a point where you depend on someone, he or she is in a position to control you. But even when control is not intended, you may still feel controlled. That's because you may feel obligated to meet any request because you may feel you "owe" the other person something that's been unspecified.
The problem is, when other people do keep score - which seems to be true to some extent for most people - failure to maintain rough parity in a relationship may destroy it, however well-intentioned one may be.


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Isn't it a simple comparison - 'my/their givings' vs. 'my/their takings'?
Anyone doesn't do that?


I don't do this. This is not to say that I don't have expectations of the relationship.

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[color:"purple"]Well it seems like my whole post is kind of around "keeping score".

I just assume my partner would be as casually generous as I am. Not receiving that level of generosity or car in return seems to set off my red flag warning.

Shouldn't both people in the relationship have some level of awareness as to how their wants are perceived? How do you accomplish that?

I watched my sister and husband one day. The husband wanted to have my sister take over some chore (paying bills) of his that he no longer wanted to perform. My sister said sure but since I will be tied up doing that, you will have to take over cleaning the bathrooms. He spends money on hobby fun stuff for himself and he buys her nice jewelry and furniture, etc. It works for them. But I know that she reminds him of how much he spends on himself. He wanted driving lessons and she told him he would have to wait until next month because they had budgeted for something else that she wanted.

She maintains the balance actively so that they both get what they want in turn and neither will feel neglected as long as the view is of the long run. He should be able to wait a month for his lessons or whatever, right?

V.[/color]

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Shouldn't both people in the relationship have some level of awareness as to how their wants are perceived? How do you accomplish that?


Sure...it's called meeting emotional needs. Score keeping seeks equity in all things despite whether they really should be equitable.

If one spouse has a high need for FS and the other doesn't, should the low need spouse insist on comparable FS?

I think a mistake many make is that they try to treat their partner in the same way they would like to be treated. Sounds like the golden rule, doesn't it? But this only leads to resentment...

You should REALLY try to treat your partner like THEY want to be treated...and make your own needs very clear to them so they will have an easy time of doing the same for you.

While I don't keep score, I think I become aware when my partner is making no effort to meet my ENs. In my mind...effort counts for a lot.

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I just assume my partner would be as casually generous as I am. Not receiving that level of generosity or car in return seems to set off my red flag warning.
Not a valid assumption, I think. As humans, we are naturally selfish creatures - even generosity can be seen as self-gratifying because of how it makes us feel to give. Our perceptions are distorted by an unavoidable egocentrism which makes it easy to rationalize to ourselves about how other people might feel about our preferences or actions. (In other words, the weighting we give when assessing what is "fair" may be based mostly on wishful thinking about what values another person might assign.) If someone is not "naturally" or "casually" generous, however, they may still be capable of a non-resentful acknowledgement that someone else's value system is legitimate, and thus should be considered when negotiating a use of resources.

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Shouldn't both people in the relationship have some level of awareness as to how their wants are perceived? How do you accomplish that?
Um...communication, maybe?

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I'm not a score-keeper in terms of I did something for your, so I expect you to do something for me.

HOWEVER (LOL) when someone does something nice for me, I like to do something nice for them.

Let's say they give me some nice baseball tickets. I might see if I can find them hockey tickets during hockey season, or take them out to dinner or something like that.

Does that make me a score-keeper, or just someone who likes to return thoughtful acts with other thoughtful acts?

BTW, if I borrow something, like a friends or my former FIL's pickup truck, it's cleaner and full of fuel, regardless the condition I got the truck.

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To me, scorekeeping means doing something for someone else and making a mental note of it, sort of "here is one" things. The danger is that by doing this, the scorekeeper may decide that s/he has done more things for the other person than the other way around.

I don't think I am a scorekeeper, but I also think that I am selfish <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />, which, put in MB-speak, means that when I do things for my partner, I make sure my Taker is OK with it. But I also believe in POJA, which specifically is tailored to keeping your Taker happy.

I think some people (scorekeepers?) make the mistake of being too much of a Giver, and then their Taker says "Hey, you got taken", and then they say "I always do so much for you!", which is usually a surprise to the other person.

In my book, when you are dating, you should do what you feel you are comfortable doing (keeping your Taker happy), but not going much beyond that, as the latter often leads to resenment down the line. So for me, I don't keep track of "I always pay for the dates, I always make the phone calls, I always cook", etc - but then again, I don't want to hear my partner say "I always drive to your place, I gave up having babies for you, I would have to relocate" - that would imply that she was doing things that her Taker was not happy with - but that is her fault, not mine. Does that make sense?

I guess to me, scorekeeping implies resenment and not being true to yourself, a martyr of sorts. My exW did that, listing for me all the things she did "for me" - heck, I didn't want her to be a martyr, no one asked her to do those things if she didn't want to - but she kept score and resented me.

AGG


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Interesting. I never thought of ex as a score keeper but reading here I see he clearly was. I guess I didn't know it because he was silent about it. Even in MCing he wasn't very clear (big surprise considering he's practically a non communicator) but looking back I see it. Yikes! What else am I going to see?

It's kinda scary to look back & say I really didn't see this. Makes me feel I went through the marriage with my eyes closed.


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Just to say:
Please don't go away! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I so much appreciate your replies!... You started a few things I'm very interested in... and would love to hear/learn more about...
Unfortunately I have no time these days, but will be back. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Thanks so much!


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Ok, I'm back, hoping to learn more about this (and myself)

I do not (too, as most of you said) do something for someone expecting to get something in return (talking about "romance" not job e.g., right?)
But I do expect return of my passion/goodness/giving/love/faithfullnes
Above all - I remember (will try to 'explain' this by replying some of you..)

My X said I was 'score keeper'.
E.G. I used to tell heim - you take me out once per year, i.e. just for my birthday, or you buy me gift only once per year and that's only for Xmas
And he would say that I keep score, because I knew how many times we had went out for last 4 years, or how many gifts I received from him for the same period of time (each time 4 for each year, that is... and I'm good in math <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)
For me, it's - I remember.
I do not keep score, I simply remember...

ps: the sample I took... it was, really and literally, like (and because of) that...


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you know what? i thought about this question and i honestly do not think i am a score keeper. i do things because i honestly want to. because i care for someone, i do special things for them, or i put forth an effort. i am just a very giving person i think. i, of course, appreciate something in return if i get it, but i do not do things because i EXPECT something in return for it.

Nicely said... and, unless you talk about some charities/donations...
I've never ever heard anyone saying different about themselves... (talking about 'romance')
People 'use this talk' because they think like that of themselves, but also when they want to be heard and seen like that by the others, in order to seduce, to be liked and wanted...
This is from my experience with people (both sexes)...
Because people (and I belong to 'people' too) have their own image of themselves, and not so often it's a real image, at least not an image that the others (might) have...
(that show up later on, specially during/after living with...)

Quote
i don't sit and keep talley of "ok, i called him today so now it is his turn to call me.." or "ok, i sent him a card this week, so now he has to do something for me" i do things because it makes me feel good to do them and it genuinely makes me feel good to know that i have made someone else feel good by doing it.
---
but, i would not keep score if i happend to go there more than he came here, etc...
---
i did it because i wanted to, not because i expect to keep score. i put effort into a relationship because i want to, not because i keep score there either. now, if it was extreme and i was doing ALL the giving and a man was doing ALL the taking... well, than that is just not a healthy relationship anyway.

Right
And you would probably leave that relationship?
But you wouldn't leave in one day, the leaving is a process that lasts... so, before leaving (OR during working on your R, TOO), wouldn't you tell him how much more you were giving than him?
Not because you kept the score, but you just - remember.


So, sometimes score keeping is visible, and that's rarely ('I do this and you have to do that') and most of time is... 'just remembering'?... But isn't this 'just remembering', IN ITS ESSENCE, still score keeping?
I.e. I almost see no difference (in the essence)... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />
(I guess I need someone to 'convince' me (not only tell me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) that there is no at least a little little score keeper in any human being (which I strongly believe, that oh, yes, there is)..(I'm still not talking here about some charity/donations/salvation armies, etc. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)


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I am not a scorekeeper.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
(Without kidding now - You know what? You seem to me the closest one not to be... I guess it's because of (your way of) believing in God... as much as I red between lines...)

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In fact, due to my own psychological issues, I am surprised when anyone does anything for me, no matter how much I may have done for them.

Hm...
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
And if your self-esteem were higher (where it should be, much much higher)... would it be the same... ('Won't know unless try'...)
(Please, don't be there! I adore your soul, and you deserve much much more...)

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The problem is, when other people do keep score - which seems to be true to some extent for most people - failure to maintain rough parity in a relationship may destroy it, however well-intentioned one may be.

And what is that 'rough parity' is a subjective/individual opinion... that not most but ALL of us possess...


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Isn't it a simple comparison - 'my/their givings' vs. 'my/their takings'?
Anyone doesn't do that?


I don't do this. This is not to say that I don't have expectations of the relationship.

OK
And when your expectations are not met, do you... compare when you remember? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


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How I see this:

Quote
I watched my sister and husband one day. The husband wanted to have my sister take over some chore (paying bills) of his that he no longer wanted to perform. My sister said sure but since I will be tied up doing that, you will have to take over cleaning the bathrooms.

I don't see her(?) here as a score keeper, but just trying to organize their family duties, so everyone can have enough time for the family and themselves too...

Quote
He spends money on hobby fun stuff for himself and he buys her nice jewelry and furniture, etc. It works for them.

Of course it works, because they fulfill their needs (she for his spending on hobby fun stuff and he by bying her jewelry she likes...)
How else you would meet each other needs if not by negotiating them and making compromises?

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But I know that she reminds him of how much he spends on himself.
He wanted driving lessons and she told him he would have to wait until next month because they had budgeted for something else that she wanted.

I like her - she meets his needs, but yet fights for her needs to be met as well.
Reciprocity (for without it, we have resentment, right?)
Excellent

Quote
She maintains the balance actively so that they both get what they want in turn and neither will feel neglected as long as the view is of the long run. He should be able to wait a month for his lessons or whatever, right?

Right (see above <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)


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Score keeping seeks equity in all things despite whether they really should be equitable.

Right
BUT
who determine 'whether they really should be equitable'?
Better speaker? Stronger one? Wiser one?
Or it should be both of them compromising?
(I'm not talking here about (e.g.) a woman gives birth and expects the same from her man <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> but about 'those little things that all life mean'...)

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If one spouse has a high need for FS and the other doesn't, should the low need spouse insist on comparable FS?

I just recall an old movie... return of the warrior... (more adequeta if you meant SF though <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) but it's similar 'point'...
Compensation <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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You should REALLY try to treat your partner like THEY want to be treated...and make your own needs very clear to them so they will have an easy time of doing the same for you.

Agree

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While I don't keep score, I think I become aware when my partner is making no effort to meet my ENs. In my mind...effort counts for a lot.

I agree, effort counts for a lot...
But if there are no effort (enough or at all)...?
(please see question above <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)


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As humans, we are naturally selfish creatures - even generosity can be seen as self-gratifying because of how it makes us feel to give. Our perceptions are distorted by an unavoidable egocentrism which makes it easy to rationalize to ourselves about how other people might feel about our preferences or actions. (In other words, the weighting we give when assessing what is "fair" may be based mostly on wishful thinking about what values another person might assign.)

Amen

Quote
If someone is not "naturally" or "casually" generous, however, they may still be capable of a non-resentful acknowledgement that someone else's value system is legitimate, and thus should be considered when negotiating a use of resources.

And how many people are capable of doing this?

Quote
Shouldn't both people in the relationship have some level of awareness as to how their wants are perceived? How do you accomplish that?
Um...communication, maybe? [/quote]

Right

And only the way of saying it makes all difference...
(to LOOK like a score keeper or NOT LOOK like the one <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)


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I'm not a score-keeper in terms of I did something for your, so I expect you to do something for me.

HOWEVER (LOL)...

You see? (LOL)

Quote
...when someone does something nice for me, I like to do something nice for them.

Let's say they give me some nice baseball tickets. I might see if I can find them hockey tickets during hockey season, or take them out to dinner or something like that.

Does that make me a score-keeper, or just someone who likes to return thoughtful acts with other thoughtful acts?

BTW, if I borrow something, like a friends or my former FIL's pickup truck, it's cleaner and full of fuel, regardless the condition I got the truck.

I'd call it a positive&nice score keeper <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
(And I'm like that (re: these/similar things your mentioned <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)


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To me, scorekeeping means doing something for someone else and making a mental note of it, sort of "here is one" things.

OK, I understand this, but, again, not everyone is 'a score keeper' you can see right away, not so many people would say (when they are happy with their Taker and Giver) - 'you know, if I do this thing to you you will have to do that thing for me' - they say it when they are hurt, when their needs are not met...
If you don't make a mental note of it - at that moment, nor later on - but when you are hurt and your needs are not met, or when someone accuses you of not meeting their needs - then you recall some things that you were giving but yet not recognized... isn't it 'score keeping' too?
Also, how can you differ WHEN "a mental note" is made? (in order to 'clasify' someone to be (or not) a score keeper?
And, at the end, what's the difference?
I see just wrapping different and the same 'gift' when you un-wrap it...

I.e. - we cannot avoid making 'mental notes', sooner or latter, from this or another reason, therefore in all of us there is a little score keeper <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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So for me, I don't keep track of "I always pay for the dates, I always make the phone calls, I always cook", etc - but then again, I don't want to hear my partner say "I always drive to your place, I gave up having babies for you, I would have to relocate"...

Ok, I got that
But when she mentions, you recall what you do (for her, for you(plural)), right?
Someone could say you keep score of what you have been doing to/for her/your R too?

I mean... what would she have to say that it doesn't sound as a score keeping?
(For me, she might just be reproaching... for she feels she gave more than she took...)

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- that would imply that she was doing things that her Taker was not happy with - but that is her fault, not mine. Does that make sense

It would imply... actually it looks like it does

I question if it's her fault (only) though...

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I didn't want her to be a martyr, no one asked her to do those things if she didn't want to - but she kept score and resented me.

What if that was (her doings) the only way to be with you?

What if she wanted and did but didn't get her needs met, then reminded you, in order to see that you have to forfeit some things too (and love and family IS sacrifice of many own needs), in order to make you change and meet her needs?
I agree, not good way of saying 'I tried I did many things for you and you were happy with, but you didn't (enough, at all) try to do the same in things that would make me happy'...

Btw, what would be for you a good way to say that?
(and not to sound-like/be 'a score keeper' <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)


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It's kinda scary to look back & say I really didn't see this. Makes me feel I went through the marriage with my eyes closed.

We could but just didn't want to see... hurt less...
Then it comes the moment we have to face to...


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Boy can I write (think loud <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)

So, if you read, and survived, and above all understood (congratulations if you did! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)...
- what's my problem(s)?...
here <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


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I agree, not good way of saying 'I tried I did many things for you and you were happy with, but you didn't (enough, at all) try to do the same in things that would make me happy'...

Btw, what would be for you a good way to say that?
(and not to sound-like/be 'a score keeper' <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)

IMO, if one's needs aren't met, they have the right (and obligation?) to say so. "Honey, I would love more affection", "I want more time together", "I wish you would buy me more presents". Perfectly fine, I don't see a problem with it.

But, a scorekeeper would not say that. Rather, they would make you feel guilty because they would show you that they gave you more than they got back. So they'd say "How come you drove up to see me only once last week, while I drove down to see you three times?", "Why am I always the one to initiate affection?", "I bought you more presents than you bought me".

See the difference? Instead of discussing an issue or a need, it becomes a contest of who's "ahead", hence the "scorekeeping" label. Me, I don't think I start my conversations by trying to show my partner how much more I do for her than she for me. It creates defensiveness right away.

Now, you are right, when faced with someone giving me the score, I reply in kind, but it is only because I usually see an explanation as to why the "score" is out of whack (e.g. I cannot drive up her way when I have the kids) or because I see a score that grossly overlooks some facts.

Scorekeepers express their needs (or dissatisfaction with how they are met) by using comparative tools (score): "I always do XYZ for you, you never do ABC for me". Non-scorekeepers can express the same concern without the comparison: "I would like you to do more XYZ". In my opinion, scorekeeping creates division rather than unity, because it inherently tries to tell the person that they are "behind" in the score - most people are not apt to respond well to that tactic.

AGG


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Got it, and I agree, in general (this might correlate with having positive or negative thinking though, not 'scorekeeping'... wrong?)

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IMO, if one's needs aren't met, they have the right (and obligation?) to say so. "Honey, I would love more affection", "I want more time together", "I wish you would buy me more presents". Perfectly fine, I don't see a problem with it.

And what if you apply that 'positive thinking' attitude, and no result? (And you are not ready yet to split...)
What would be the next 'step' in communication?

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Now, you are right, when faced with someone giving me the score, I reply in kind, but it is only because I usually see an explanation as to why the "score" is out of whack (e.g. I cannot drive up her way when I have the kids) or because I see a score that grossly overlooks some facts.

And if she sees that something 'grossly overlooks some facts', or 'out of whack'... is she than allowed to reply/say/compare and not to be considered a scorekeeper?

E.g. she says - 'honey, when you said/did/didn't accept that, sorry, but IMO, I think it's out of whack',
and you say - 'honey, it is not, and yadayadayada'... what if she gives you one sample of similar (in her opinion, as you have yours) case when you had 'opposite roles'...?
I mean, how could she avoid it, by saying what?


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And what if you apply that 'positive thinking' attitude, and no result? (And you are not ready yet to split...)
What would be the next 'step' in communication?

Oh, Harley has tons of stuff on this in his Basic Concepts. You use things like Thoughtful Requests, etc. But you certainly do not resort to "I always do this, you never do that". That is scorekeeping, and will get you nowhere.

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And if she sees that something 'grossly overlooks some facts', or 'out of whack'... is she than allowed to reply/say/compare and not to be considered a scorekeeper?

It's all a matter of extent. If someone regularly relies on the tactic of "I always do this for you, you never do that for me", then that person is a scorekeeper. But of course, if someone tells me that I never call them and I decide to point out that I have called every single evening for the past six months, that would not make me a scorekeeper.

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I mean, how could she avoid it, by saying what?

Look, the basic problem with scorekeeping is this. We all know (or should know) that there are three sides to every story - his side, her side, and the truth. That is why when I talk about making "mental notes" of "the score", I know that they are just that - mental notes, with MY slant on them. They are biased, and I know that they are, no matter how objectively I may want to see them. So when I need something, I don't bring up my biased mental notes to prove that the score is in my favor. I know that my partner has her own equally biased scorecard, and for us to use our scorecards to prove that the other person "owes us" is pointless. It's much better to simply bring up your point and discuss it, instead of trying to prove to the other person that they are "behind" and "owe us".

The scorekeeper, though, will not admit that there is a different perspective than theirs. They will use "the score" to try to convince you of their truth. Show me the last time that ever got anyone anywhere...

AGG


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But you certainly do not resort to "I always do this, you never do that". That is scorekeeping, and will get you nowhere.

What if someone doesn't say it, only thinks of it...?
IMO that's scorekeeping too...


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Isn't it a simple comparison - 'my/their givings' vs. 'my/their takings'?
Anyone doesn't do that?


I don't do this. This is not to say that I don't have expectations of the relationship.

OK
And when your expectations are not met, do you... compare when you remember? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

No, I don't...dredging up past "accounts" to bolster a current disagreement is death to a relationship. I prefer to deal with the current issues. I detest the old "Remember when you did..."

I'll exit a discussion pronto when that starts. If it starts often enough, I'll exit the relationship.

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BUT
who determine 'whether they really should be equitable'?
Better speaker? Stronger one? Wiser one?
Or it should be both of them compromising?


The very fact that one would ask these questions mean they've already slid into the scorekeeper mentality. The "equity" has become more important than anything else.

If I'm in scorekeeper mode, EQUITY itself becomes what's important...not that I actually care about the very issue.

For example, If I cook ten meals to my girlfriend's one meal, I would become unhappy until she cooks her nine...regardless of whether she was a good cook or whether I actually liked cooking, etc, etc...(BTW, the only thing she knew how to make for dinner was reservations)

It comes down to each person having their needs met by the other...some folks are high maintenance, some low...so their may be some natural inequity in raw acts...

But if neither person is unhappy with the arrangement, where's the issue?

I'm not one to count acts...but I know when someone is making an effort to meet my needs or not...and I don't need to dredge up a ton of balance sheet entries to make that point.

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(BTW, the only thing she knew how to make for dinner was reservations)

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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It comes down to each person having their needs met by the other...some folks are high maintenance, some low...so their may be some natural inequity in raw acts...

I wonder if it's 'related' to sex, and it's more visible with women...


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We all have the giver and the taker. It is only normal to keep score on some level. It's when it become compulsive or the balance gets out of wack that things go wrong.

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