Hi all

Some of you may know me. Most won't. That's cool.

There have been lots of changes on these boards in my two years here, some good, but most bad IMO.

Lately there has come a change that I cannot, in good conscience, tolerate. That is the toleration of affair marriages here.

I am a BS well into recovery yet am stung and offended greatly by what I consider to be the inflammatory and entitled presence of affair-married WS and OPs on these boards. An affair marrige was the very antithesis of good when I was at my lowest point back in '04 : only FWS telling me that affairs are delusion and unsustainable kept me going when I had no hope.

I wonder now what I would have thought when I was so very low had an affair-spouse posted about how legitimate their marrige was. Even more scary is what message this presence may send to a WS in the throes of addiction to OP but struggling to do the right thing, only to see an entitled example of a person who MARRIED their OP appear on the boards.

I am so very hurt by their presence but also by the meek acceptence of these marriges as if they are legitimate candidates for MB-support.

I feel it sends the message out that a quickie divorce and a fast affair marriage is the quickest way to become a FWS and gain legitimacy for an affair. I cannot tolerate this in my presence.

Affair marriges are unrepented affairs in my opinion and it feels utterly wrong to use MB tools and resources on assisting such. I know MANY MANY MB'ers are offended and hurt by this too but the hurt they knowingly cause vulnerable posters is clearly a price worth paying for the help these folks receive.

Whether I am right or wrong, this is the straw that has broken my MB back. I cannot remain in this community while affair marriage spouses frequent here. I can't even ignore them because just knowing their open presence is tolerated while their example is sending messages to the vulnerable just kills me.

Thank you many kind posters for all the help these past years.

You are lifesavers and I will never forget you. But I can't do this anymore.

Why not stay and fight?

You already know that some people are tolerating their presence and you will always know this-you will also remeber your departure from the community and the reason you did so. The only way to address this knowledge is with the action of fighting it or at least watching their inevitable problems come to fruition. That's what brought them here right? Their "problems."

Hear me out: A house built on sand cannot stand right? So EVEN IF certain people try to use MB tools, the inevitable will result, no?

Watch out for the long knives of the nice police telling you you are out of line for expressing this view Bob. The offensiveness of these affair marriages to every BS and genuine FWS on these boards is unspeakable.

WOW CS, I think I agree with you.

Bob, surely folks will come to their senses soon and we can get back to the real reason we are here - building marriages the right way - and not causing pain to others who are struggling as we do it.

And a little scary for those of us who have not gone through this situation or are in new marriages...

One question is this: How do you resolve the Christian concept of forgiveness with the act of casting these folks out?

I would hazard a guess and say that there are more "affair marriages" on these boards than people realize.

I can remember one of them and that person was touted as being all knowing by some of the posters. I can remember some posters calling it what it was too.

Your choice...but if you think you haven't been in contact with them before now, you are sadly mistaken.

Adieu

committed

Bob,

I understand, as much as is possible for a FWS, where you are coming from and why you feel this way. The way I see it, though, is that probably those poster did not find this site previously, or thought they were above needing help. Now they are here, and to avoid making the same mistake twice, they see that there is something they lack and want to figure it out.

If they do not save their "affair marriages", then yet again, they are hurting even more people than before, and yet again, may go on to another "doomed-to-fail" marriage.

It is too late for them to go back and undo the damage in their first marriages. Well, maybe they could, but STILL.....if divorce ensues in the affair marriage, there are more people hurt, as I said.

I have a friend who divorced her first husband. She remarried (I don't think it was an affair-related marriage, but her first marriage may have broken up due to one). Anyway, she eventually decided she wanted her first husband back....and left a very hurt, very betrayed second husband in her wake. I wondered then, was it right to divorce the second guy in order to make things right in God's eyes?

God knows we are going to sin. We are going to make some really huge mistakes in our lifetimes....but He is a God of second chances, and I think it's a GOOD thing there are people here now who have wised up. They can't go back and change what happened, perhaps the first spouse has moved on by now....so they really SHOULD do all they can to make it work. Would you really have them continue in the cycle they were on?

Just some food for thought. You do what you need to do, Bob....take care of yourself and your beautiful girl first. If being here is a hindrance, then it probably is best to stay away.

God Bless you, always!

NOW

This may signal the coming of the Apocalypse.

Or it might be your mind EVOLVING to consider the message rather than the bitterness you have for the messenger.

Hi Committed,

I believe its one thing to "knowingly" support those folks where you have made that informed choice as opposed to supporting people who intentionally fail to be forthcoming with the info (aka omission) that they are in an affair-based marriage. Big difference IMVHO.

Jo

Good Question CS.

Forgiveness from God is predicated upon repentance - Taking God's side against yourself, Turning from your sin, Making amends. Qualities I see missing from affair marriages.

Regarding me personally forgiving people? Well I have no personal axe to grind against anyone on these boards. I don't believe some people have a place here and do a lot of harm to people in the deepest distress of their lives. They do this in full knowledge of what they are doing but don't care about anyone but themselves. But they haven't personally done anything to me and don't require my forgiveness - they haven't harmed me personally.

My wife's OM did actually ask for forgiveness when the affair fell apart. I was a little hasty in forgiving him as ever since he has still interjected himself in our lives (our childrens lives).

Does that answer your question?

Um....nope!

You must be a politician because you did not answer my question.

My question was about the Christian concept of forgiveness: How do the self proclaimed followers of God reconcile their God's command to forgive with their actions of casting stones at certain people?

I have no bitterness towards you CS. When you have posted thoughtfully I have responded in kind. Hostility has been met with hostility. I have at times found you a distraction and offensive. It does not concern me finding myself in agreement with you however it does surprise me I must say.

Your question seems to show ignorance about the christian concept of forgiveness. Perhaps you can elaborate exactly how you feel that christian concept of forgiveness is being violated here?

Bob

I am one who has argued in the past to offer assistance to someone in an A marriage. I don't know if I was right. I believe I was arguing based upon my own needs, weaknesses, and history... to be the nice guy and help regardless of the cost.

In my arguing for and listening to the arguments against, I have started to change my stance. Maybe you are correct... not that they don't deserve help, but that this is the wrong place for them to receive it.

I still see that MM is trying to stabilize the one he is helping and let God bring some good from that situation (a paraphrase of his words)... not necessarily to repair her current marriage... and I think that is a worthwhile effort. But, again looking at the damage it might be causing, you might be right. I am still trying to figure this one out.

I do agree with Cinn-sugar. For all the ridicule and arguments she has received, I, for one, am glad she has toughed it out if nothing else to say these words to you. You are a valuable member of this forum, Bob. I have not always agreed with your views, but I have always seen the value. I hope you will reconsider.

Shaden

Ditto Shaden.

Agree with Cinn-Sug, too.

You still have a lot to offer, Bob. I understand that particular thread is tough, but think about all the other folks you have been able to help.

I think (and maybe I'm wrong) that a lot of the long-timers stick around to try to help others the way they were once helped out. Having been on for a little over a year myself, I still see myself as a newbie, compared to many of vets.

MB cannot afford to lose the kind of people who have recovered their marriages like yourself and Squid. Alas, too many of us will not be such shining examples. Please reconsider.

I am not Christian, but I know of no religion where taking a vow clearly stating (as I did) "For better or for worse, for richer or for poorer, until DEATH DO US PART" means anything else. Your friend did the right thing

She went back and is staying true to her vows... until death does she part.


Say like divorcing the one we vowed to love and be faithful to? That is a huge mistake. At least she rectified it.

Just because two people are divorced does not mean reconciliation is not possible.

That might be a way to look at your friend's new/ old marriage. Maybe she needed the D to figure out what she was doing wrong.

I agree with Bob. Not only is it wrong to us MB techniques and give advice to OM's and WS's, it is morally and ethically vile. Too bad for the OP, maybe he/ she will stop messing around with other people's spouses!

The acceptance of support of affair-based marriages has said many, many things to me, one of the many being:

"Be Warned:
We will support you in your attempt to salvage your marriage, but if you end up divorced we'll be more than happy to pick-up the new couple should they Wed and need help down the road."

I am not dying on any hill...And I am propping you up Bob on this one.

I am the enemy of the OW. I declare war on them! I declare war on affairs!

I do not condone or give out warm fuzzies to those who want to come here for support in their illegetimate affair marriages. Or for OP to feel better about themselves when they can't quit eating cake or sitting on a fence.

I am here to use MY experience to help END AFFAIRS and bring families together. My family is a victim of two very vicious OW and One severely dysfunctional WS. My son and I have had to put together the life pieces because of them. Because my xh morphed into a self indulgent hedonist and because there are many sad unachieving OW who want a man for their looks and money. Alas, I was vanilla...he wanted chocolate...end of that story. It was about self gratification...not about smarts.

And my xh is miserable in his affair marriage...even sent me a risque email 2 days ago with a joke about a girl who looks kinda like me in it...and admits he thinks of me.

Sad stuff. In retrospect he probably knows NOW that we had it ok...and he gambled away and lost it all. But the OW in our case was out for money pure and simple. She wanted to erase me and my ds from the photo and cut and paste her cheap self and her brood in the picture...since she has no ambition and doesn't work (except on her back).

Sorry if I paint a explicit picture...but it is what it is.

And I take NO PRISONERS NOW. NOT IN MY PERSONAL LIFE OFFBOARDS...AND NOT WHEN HELPING MY FRIENDS HERE.

I SUPPORT YOU BOB.

I DO NOT SUPPORT WISTRESSES OR SLIMEBALL WH'S WHO JUSTIFY AND SPIN THEIR EXTREMELY SELFISH AND SINFUL ACTIONS.

Careful Jo - You'll be told you're out of line with that comment.