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Dear TW;
Thanks for you kind words and interest. Yes, I just recently found out and am very angry and hurt!<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
I am going to therapy and little by little I hope to get all the truth. I simply cannot take half-truths...I believe after you've been caught...why continue lying! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> but I guess he has to go thru the WS stages after the A has been revealed...!Anyway, I am the type that needs to know all of it, otherwise I cannot proceed to any type of recovery!


Me- BW 47 Him- WWH 49 2 daughters/ 21 & 15 D-DAY - 3/5/07 PLAN A ONGOING "ONLY TWO DEFINING FORCES HAVE OFFER TO DIE FOR YOU; JESUS CHRIST AND THE AMERICAN SOLDIER. ONE DIED FOR YOUR SOUL, THE OTHER FOR YOU FREEDOM!!"
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I don’t have much time right now. I will post more later and answer any questions, etc.

It has been a rough week. I told my H that I felt hurt because he went back into town without me last weekend. He finally explained that he bought me an anniversary gift. Our anniversary is today.

Because I am so sensitive about gifts since D-Day, I felt I needed to forewarn him. We talked for a while so he could understand where I’m at right now. It is something that I am dealing with and need to work out.

He got the OW something very personal and intimate for Valentine’s Day and had put weeks of thought into it. This is something he has never done for me. I usually got something like a toaster.

If he didn’t put as much thought into the gift as he did for the OW’s gift then I would be hurt by it right now. I told him I would rather have uninterrupted, undivided attention from him for a few hours. We are also planning to go for a long walk this evening if it doesn’t rain.

Yesterday, I woke up shaking and by 3:00 it was much worse. I started to panic and couldn’t work. I had to leave at 4:00. I’m shaking again this morning. If I don’t get something complicated at work to keep my mind busy, I won’t make it through the day. I feel like I’m always 10 seconds from losing control. Not a good thing to happen at work.

Have to go for now.


troubled_water
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I agree that our M can’t revolve around the A but it’s all I think about. I can’t escape it day or night. The doctor has me on the highest dosage of AD’s allowed right now to help me cope. He wants this to be temporary and doesn’t want to keep me there. He said there is only so much he can do with the meds. The rest is going to be for me to start healing. The only way I can start healing is for my H to tell me the truth or for me to move out and start my life over. I don’t want to move out but I don’t know how long I can do this.

I may have to start IC. I will look for one today.

Am I giving myself permission to not be the best wife? I guess I haven’t thought of it that way. I feel I’m trying my best. I also realize I am struggling.

I’m afraid that if I open myself up and he doesn’t tell me the truth it will completely destroy me. I have been open and honest with him our entire M and he and OW used it to have an A. It almost cost me my life. H on the other hand has never been open and honest with me. I feel I have given and given in this M. I’m only asking for one thing….for him to be honest.

My greatest fear is that the timeline H is working on will be just pages of the same garbage he’s been telling me. At 10 pm tonight it was 60 degrees outside and H was wearing a short sleeve shirt. It’s April. Remember, H told me he was wearing a sweatshirt the first time with OW which he says was in June. In June 2005 it was 60-70 degrees at night. I have photos of the grandchildren outside late in the evening with shorts and tank tops in May and June. There are other photos with dates and times also. I have other proof it wasn’t June but H still insists.

When he does go through his timeline, I will listen with no LB’s or DJ’s. Even if he says the A started in June, I won’t say anything. Instead, I feel I will need to take some time to think about every thing he tells me. If he appears to be telling the truth, the questions will stop. There may be a few just for me to verify it is the truth. I want the OW out of our M as soon as possible.

His typing is horrible. His communication is better than his typing. If he is writing his posts like he writes things to me, he is probably trying to save keystrokes by not writing complete sentences. Probably several topics in one sentence like….went to town, made wife lunch, worked on car, wife depressed. Am I close?

When he is going through a tough time, because of our sitch, his typing may get worse. His thoughts may go all over the place. (This happens during our conversations too).

I tend to get “wordy”. Too many thoughts going through my head at all times plus the constant thoughts of the A. My mind is total chaos 24/7.

It was our anniversary Friday and it came and went quietly. We went for a long walk. We both talked about work the whole time. Pretty boring conversation. I was having a hard time but tried not showing it. Came home made supper together and went to bed.

Saturday, my H helped oldest S and I went shopping with my mother for a couple of hrs. In the afternoon, our 2nd son and my H worked on some things. I became very tired so I slept for a while. We made supper together. H’s IC told him to sit quietly for 1 hr. every night to just think and work on his timeline. He did that then came to bed.

Sunday, we went outside and picked up sticks and more little stuff we’re still finding from the tornado we had late last summer, especially glass. This was a major trigger for me and broke down crying a couple of times.

I’ve always done this every spring on my own because H would be gone helping someone else. It was nice having H there to help and I did enjoy it but I still had a very difficult time. I did force myself to finish one section of our property. I started to panic and had to quit.

We made lunch together. My anxiety was so bad. Felt like I was suffocating so I lay down for a while. H did one load of laundry. We needed a few things from town so H ran some errands, which only took him an hr. I just didn’t want to go out in public so I stayed home and did laundry.

After dinner, we went to my parent’s house. Jennifer called to check up on us. She said the timeline was a very good idea. I printed out the spreadsheet I created with all the credit card charges, checks, receipts I could find and his paychecks with hours missing. Jennifer thought this would be helpful for working on the timeline.


Soyestadista,

I know the pain you are going through.

Quote: “I believe after you’ve been caught…why continue lying!”

My FWH said he lied to minimize the severity of what he did. By telling me the lies, he was telling himself it was the truth. By saying the words (lies), he could convince himself that it wasn’t that bad and it should be easier for me to get over. He was deciding what I needed to know in order to heal from this. Wrong. Only the BS knows what they need in order to recover. My H is realizing this more every day.

H told me many lines of “bull” for months. The story has never been the same twice. I believe he is finally out of the “fog” and it is just fear holding him back from telling me the truth. I told him I don’t care if it went on for 5 yrs. or how horrid it was. I won’t leave him as long as he tells me the truth.

If he continues to lie to me, I won’t stay in a M with a foundation based on lies. It’s just the way I am.

Hang in there! Sometimes you have to just take it hour by hour to get through the day. I had to go minute by minute some times. I will be thinking of you.


troubled_water
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TW,

I read your post. This is progress on your H's part.

He is actively working on the timeline for you. He is trying to meet one of your conditions for recovery.

Please recognize how big that is.

Right now I am seeing you as a person with one foot out the door just waiting to get the other one in.

My mom put it to me like this. Do not get a D until you are 100% sure that is what you want. Make sure you feel that way for a while.

Until that day assume you are 100% into the M.

You need to get 100% back into trying to recover if that is what you want.

You have a right to walk we all do, if you decide not to then commit to recover.

I wish you the best and I understand better then most how you feel about this.

What are your plans if he finishes the time line and you are satisfied with what he has told you?


BS 38
FWW 35
D Day 10/03
Recovery started 11/06
3 boys 12, 8 and a new baby


When life hands you lemons make lemonade then try to find the person life hands vodka and have a party.
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Frognomore,

I do see my H working on the timeline and appreciate it. I know this is difficult for him.

H came home during his lunch hr. to pick something up for our business. We only had 5 min.

He told me he remembered something this morning about the A that I might consider important. He will add it to his timeline. Just the fact that he told me gives me some hope. I thanked him for telling me. I also told him I love him very much.

Quote: “Right now I am seeing you as a person with one foot out the door just waiting to get the other one in.”

I didn’t realize this but I think you just described how I feel in one sentence!

Quote: “What are your plans if he finishes the time line and you are satisfied with what he has told you?”

I will then know that he is committed to rebuilding our M based on honesty. We can then start to move forward and begin our journey to recover from this nightmare. It will still take a long time and we will have our ups and downs but at least we would be moving toward something positive.


troubled_water
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TW,

I am glad you see that. I think sometimes the FWS gets beat up pretty bad.

I see with your H's schedule he is busy so I am glad you see this as a commitment to you and your M that he is doing this.

I am glad to see you have a plan after he is honest.

I will be honest. I know my FWW didn't tell me everything. I am sure I got most of it, but could she remember every little detail? I realized probably not.

What bothered me is when the detail was pretty big and I know she was lying to make her life easier.

So I guess my point is remember some things he will mess up probably but don't hold him to task for stuff like that.

So for instance if my FWW said on Tuesday we .... and it was really Monday or Wednesday and it was an honest thing I didn't consider that a lie. Unless of course she was with him MOn, tues, and weds and is just trying to lie about the amount of time.

I think there is a difference though.

I hope you see what I am saying.


BS 38
FWW 35
D Day 10/03
Recovery started 11/06
3 boys 12, 8 and a new baby


When life hands you lemons make lemonade then try to find the person life hands vodka and have a party.
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I realize he can’t remember every detail and I don’t expect him to. I just need to know the major things. If major details come out in his timeline, does that prove that he was lying to me all along?

I can’t stop feeling he will give me 2 or 3 more details then expect me to believe it as the truth. He has done this since d-day and it scares me. I can’t keep going through this…every 6 mo. being given the next version of “the truth” thinking maybe I’ll believe the new and improved story.

There are things he told me early on that he now says never happened. Why would a FWS do that? Sometime I feel he is minimizing some things more now.

I just wish he would get it. I can’t play the lying games anymore. Sorry, I’m just really down this evening.


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Help! I feel like the walls are closing in on me. I’m having a very bad day!

I keep thinking about all the lies my H has told me for years. The fact that he didn’t love me as much as he thought he did for our entire M because he didn’t know me. How can you be M to someone for 30 yrs. and not know what kind of person they are?

A few wks. ago, I brought up the idea of moving into our oldest S’s house for a couple of wks. (Oldest S isn’t living there right now.) I felt it would give me some time to think and H more time to work on his timeline without having to look at me being depressed. S’s house is by a walking path so I could do a lot of walking to help increase my strength.

I didn’t suggest it to make him think I’m moving out permanently, I think we need a short break from each other. It can’t be helpful to our M for me to hold everything inside and let the anger keep building and becoming more depressed while my H works on his timeline.

It’s becoming more difficult to meet H’s EN’s. How can I if I’m angry, depressed and having anxiety all the time? H knows I’m trying to fake it and I think it makes him feel worse, not better. I feel so inadequate in every way!!!

It feels more and more like things used to be between us…me waiting for him to be available or the want to talk to me. Then, as before, our conversations are about the weather, work or other generic topics.

I have a dr. appt. this afternoon. Dr. is 2 hrs. away and H is going to drive me. It is so hard for me to be with him with all this pain and anger inside me.

I can’t think straight today. Need opinions please!


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TW,

You are focusing way to much on the lies and the A.

The reason I aske what you would do if he is honest was to give you something else to think about.

He Had an A, He lied, He continues to lie. That is affecting you but it does not in any way dictate who you are.

You should read up on plan A. Plan A is to make yourself better.

Leaving and going to your Sons house will not help.

Wait for the timeline. Let him work on it. Then from there decide if you want to stay married.

If he is done and he is lying then do as you said you would.

If he comes up with things on it that he never told you before of course it is lying.

Are you now saying if he tells you something new you are going to hold him to task.

That is not a safe environment.

I hope you read on plan A. Make yourself better and get into personal recovery.

You should start that and if your M follows great, if not you will still be ok.


BS 38
FWW 35
D Day 10/03
Recovery started 11/06
3 boys 12, 8 and a new baby


When life hands you lemons make lemonade then try to find the person life hands vodka and have a party.
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I will read plan A again before H gets home to take me to the doctor.

I am being very supportive about the timeline. I remind him and try to see that he is not disturbed. I haven’t asked him how long he thinks it will take him for fear he will feel pressured.

When he does go through the timeline, if he still lies, I won’t throw it in his face. I will remain as calm as possible, then take some time to think about everything he told me. After that, I will ask for further guidance from everyone here. It will take everything I have inside to just make it through the timeline.

I don’t think H completely realizes that I am done with the lies even though he says he does. He has said that many times since d-day and I’ve always found out later he still lied. That scares me. He needs to get it…lies=I’m gone, truth=we work on recovering.


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The 2 hr. drive to the doctor was very uncomfortable. (I had been sick for a couple of days and was nauseated so that didn’t help.) It was total silence for a while. H finally said “You’re awful quiet”. I told him I felt we could only talk about the weather, work or the kids. Anything else seems to be taken out of context. He said we can talk about other things.

I could tell he was hurting. He wasn’t to the point of crying, but I could see the tears welling up in his eyes. This used to cause me to give in and immediately try to comfort him. Now, I just feel numb. He then said, “I’ve done so much to you and hurt you so deeply that it has changed you hasn’t it?”

I tried to tell him that each lie is like a knife stabbing me. After you’ve been stabbed hundreds of times, you begin to feel them less and less. Just my way of trying to explain how I feel.

The next thing he said wasn’t “I understand” or anything. He asked me to make a phone call to one of our business customers. Huh? Right this minute? That hurt me big time!

After the doctor appt. we had a nice dinner. Conversation was generic and safe. The ride home was frustrating for both of us. More silence or generic conversation.

While H worked on his timeline, I read more of Plan A in the book Surviving and Affair. When H came to bed, I asked him if I could read a couple of paragraphs to him. He said ok. I asked his opinion. We both agreed that we forgot something that Jennifer told us in MC. We both agreed to go back to reading the book each night together.

We both were emotionally exhausted and were starting to doze. I fell asleep. I woke up later from a nightmare and H wasn’t in bed. I could hear him in the computer room so I assume he was on MB and wasn’t going to get much sleep again.

H called me from work this morning. We only had a couple of minutes to talk but we agreed to write down ground rules, as stated in Surviving an Affair. Each time, before we talk, we will read these rules out loud. I hope that will help us feel safe to start talking again.

I’m still not feeling well and need to lie down again The drive yesterday took a lot out of me, and I always suffer for it greatly the next day. I’m going to continue reading.


troubled_water
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TW sorry not a lot of time for me for posting lately.

I am bumping you!!!


BS 38
FWW 35
D Day 10/03
Recovery started 11/06
3 boys 12, 8 and a new baby


When life hands you lemons make lemonade then try to find the person life hands vodka and have a party.
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Thanks Frognomore. I understand.

I feel like everyone else must think H and I are a lost cause or think we aren’t listening to the advice given us.

Everyone has been giving us some great advice! Sometimes it may not look like we are listening, but we are. We are still learning and it may take a while for us to “get it” and do things right.

Last night H and I went through a section of the book SAA about setting ground rules and wrote them down.

Two of the major things to work on first.

1.We need to make sure we understand the meaning of what the other person is saying.

2.I’ve been trying so hard not to bring up anything about the A and avoiding LB’s and DJ’s. This is causing anger and resentment to build up inside me. I either end up LB’ing or DJ’ing or in total silence. H says the silence is more of a LB to him.

We are also going to go back through our notes from the MC sessions with Jennifer. At least the things we did then helped my H to feel much better.

We are going to learn more about PTSD and try to help me deal with that. Not much, but it’s a start.


troubled_water
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So I think that what needs to be done is to figrue out how to communicate and not LB.

I am seeing two people that want to move forward but can't communicate that to each other.

I will say like yourself I couldn't move forward without the truth.

So at this point I would kinda just relax on the A stuff right now. I know that is hard to do but it is probably necessary.

For me once I got the truth and there weren't any gotcha's coming then I could focus on the M recovery stuff.


BS 38
FWW 35
D Day 10/03
Recovery started 11/06
3 boys 12, 8 and a new baby


When life hands you lemons make lemonade then try to find the person life hands vodka and have a party.
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I found a new credit card in my H's billfold. When I asked him if there is anything he hasn't told me about he said "no". I then told him to get his billfold, (thinking this would be an indication that I know).

He just pulled a couple of receipts out and explained what they were for. I pulled out the credit card and showed it to him and he still lied saying it wasn't a ccard. (Does he think I'm that stupid)?


There was a phone number on the card so he asked me if I wanted him to call and check what kind of card it was. I wrote down the number and said I would call. He then confessed that it was to buy me an Anniversary gift.

I was devistated that he would lie to my face over and over. I'm not very hopeful now that he will tell me the truth about the A.


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TW,

UMMMMM if it was really for an Anniversary Gift then why are you upset??????

I believe in Radical Honesty but after my FWW's A she snuck around behind my back and hid some stuff.

So she could buy me a new wedding band.

So if what I am reading is correct you believe he was going to use the card for a gift but you are mad he lied.

Quote
I'm not very hopeful now that he will tell me the truth about the A.
DJ on your part. If that is the case then tell him to stop with the time line.

You have to decide if you want to stay in this M or not. If so then worry about recovery When he tells you the truth.

In the mean time you just blew ever getting a suprise from him again.

His good intentions just got him in trouble.


BS 38
FWW 35
D Day 10/03
Recovery started 11/06
3 boys 12, 8 and a new baby


When life hands you lemons make lemonade then try to find the person life hands vodka and have a party.
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WHHHOOOOAAAAH!!! FROG.....ARE YOU KIDDING ME?????

the problem here isnt he was trying to surprise her.....the problem is he lied about the card and when she found it he continued to lie right to her face. he could have been honest and told her he got it for a surprise....but he lied.

his lying got him in trouble.....not his good intentions. i live with a habitual lier.....i know what this is like. she has to call him on this or he will never change.


"In the mean time you just blew ever getting a suprise from him again." as a bs, i think she has had enough surprises to last a lifetime....i know i did. lol

now, troubled, some of what frog said is on the money....you do seem to have one foot out the door at all times. you have to work on that and the caustic comments....i know its hard....took me forever! lol


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Quote
WHHHOOOOAAAAH!!! FROG.....ARE YOU KIDDING ME?????

No I am not kidding you Nikko. My jokes are much funnier then that post.

I know that he hasn't been as honest as she would like. He is currently working on a timeline of his A so they can hopefully get the truth out in the open and start recvoery.

Was he dishonest? Yes. Was it to hide something? Yes.

However the intention was to be DISHONEST and HIDE a suprise anniversary gift.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to surprise someone without being DISHONES AND HIDING the said surprise.

So the problem is that he has been deceitful in the past, and that causes TW to be hypersensitive to what appears to be a big EN which is Open and Honest conversation but there are times that being dishonest and hiding something are done for VERY GOOD reasons.

IMVHO instead of passing the DJ
Quote
I'm not very hopeful now that he will tell me the truth about the A.
TW could lament to her FWH that it upsets her that even though he is trying to do something REALLY NICE for her she is suspcious(sp) because of his lack of honesty in the past.

I will say it again my FWW was squirling away money after her A and lying about it. I was suspicious until she showed up with a new wedding band with five diamonds in white gold.


BS 38
FWW 35
D Day 10/03
Recovery started 11/06
3 boys 12, 8 and a new baby


When life hands you lemons make lemonade then try to find the person life hands vodka and have a party.
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I’m not sure what I did wrong here. Hoping more information may help.

When I said I wasn’t very hopeful that he will tell me the truth about the A, I didn’t say that to my H. I was hurt by the lie H told so that is how I felt at that moment. I was just venting. The truth is I’m cautiously optimistic about H’s timeline over all.

When my H first mentioned getting me an anniversary gift, I told him I would rather not do gifts yet. I would rather we spent time alone together. Time went by and he later mentioned getting me a gift.

We sat down one night, using the rules of good conversation, I explained why I felt uncomfortable with getting an anniversary gift this year. He had given the OW something very personal and intimate for Valentine’s Day. Something from his heart. I have never gotten anything close to being personal or intimate from him in 35 yrs. and he always told me he didn’t even know when Valentine’s Day was.

I explained that I felt our M was too fragile right now and I already feel inadequate. I’m afraid if the gift was anything less than what he gave the OW, I would probably feel that I’m still not as worthy as the OW. I told him I know this probably isn’t true, but it’s just where I’m at right now. I am hypersensitive to gifts right now, especially for our anniversary.

I talked to him calmly and with no LB’s or DJ’s. H understood completely and he thanked me for telling him. I told him he could give me the gift at any other time, just not for our anniversary. He returned the gift anyway.

When I found the new credit card, I didn’t know he got it to purchase the gift. If he would have said that right away it would have ended there. I didn’t accuse or use LB’s or DJ’s when I asked him about the card. I was very calm and respectful. He didn’t have to tell me what the gift was.

When I showed him the ccard and he said he didn’t know what it was, and he would call and see if it’s a ccard, it felt he was calling me stupid. This is a very sensitive area for me. H lies were so far fetched a person had to be really stupid or gullible to believe them. H lied like this constantly for the last 4 yrs. This lie hurt me very deeply. It wasn’t the ccard, it was the lie, one after another.

Wouldn’t anyone else question a new credit card in their FWS’s purse or billfold? This is only the 3rd time I’ve checked his billfold since D-Day. Over a year.

Here is what Dr. Harley says in his book Surviving an Affair. This is from the last paragraph on page 145 and first paragraph on page 146.

“Information about gifts or plans for special occasions may be the rare exception to the rule of future honesty. But in the recovery of your relationship after an affair, I would not be dishonest even under these special conditions until your marriage is completely restored.”

“When you plan to give each other gifts, you should explain your plans and then follow the POJA (Ask, How do you feel about what I am planning to give you?). Honesty in your marriage is so important right now that you cannot afford to keep secrets from each other even when they may seem harmless.”

If I did things wrong, please tell me because I’m trying so hard to follow what Dr. Harley says in his book. I know I make mistakes but doesn’t everyone? That’s why H and I are here.

I do see myself as having one foot out the door but I’m trying to get that foot in, not out. Maybe it’s self preservation, my fear of being hurt again. I have been beaten down so much over the last 4 yrs. I’m struggling to make it through the next hr. I feel like I’m hanging from a rope and the rope is fraying.


troubled_water
BS/ (me)
WS/(H) EA 3+ yrs?, PA 1 yr?
D-Day 2006
children grown
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,693
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TW,

With that explanation Nothing. LOL.

I think I have said it before that sometimes getting info out of you is like pulling teeth.

I know you didn't make the comment about getting the truth out of your H to him.

I am very much a "perception is reality" type of person.

I think someone's perception is their reality.

So when I read that you perception in essence is your H isn't going to be honest.

I know I should have been very suspicious of my FWW but instead I went the route of innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent. So when something smelled wrong I investigated and if she was guilty shame on her. IF SHE wasn't shame on me.

Now for the gift part. People do stupid crazy things in an A. You are assuming "I think based on your H's lack of communication" that the gift was all that special.

I will tell you my FWW got her Belly Button Pierced for the OM.

I don't know why, I don't care why anymore. The reason being she did that for him but I got her.

If I said I don't want anything from her unless it is bigger then that well I think I would be pretty hosed.

I can't think of many things that would qualify. Since I am the judge and jury on that I could disqualify just about anything.

What I think I am trying to say is maybe look at your FWW as a GReat person that did a bad thing not a Bad person because they did that thing.

At some point he needs to know there is redemtion.


BS 38
FWW 35
D Day 10/03
Recovery started 11/06
3 boys 12, 8 and a new baby


When life hands you lemons make lemonade then try to find the person life hands vodka and have a party.
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