This might help a lot of BS.


Did you lose respect for your spouse, when they where in plan A, and why?

Did you feel that the M was dead and their was no chance of recovery and why?

and what kept you from moving out or filing for D when you said you where going to?

I have a lot more unanswered questions, if you have anything to add please do.

TONY.

Tony,

I'm a BS myself and I can tell you that it seems to me that all WS act the same way, at least to a point. They are all convinced that the M is over and has been for a long time. There was nothing they can remember ever being right about it. They have to think that way, since even if their BS was an absolute mess, they have no justification for what they have done/are doing.

As for losing respect during Plan A...

I'm not sure they have any respect for the BS at the start of Plan A and therefore don't show much respect during that time, at least the early stages when the A is still ongoing. Once they reach point of NC and the fog begins to lift, I think they begin to show respect again, and in my WW case, she actually showed me more respect at some point because she started to see the hard work I was puting into the M even when she was still trying to destroy it.

I'm afraid I don't know your sitch. Has WW gone NC? Has the A really ended. How long have you really been in Plan A?

I think a good Plan A works wonders, at least it did for me, but many here are in Plan B because Plan A did little to end the A. Remember that Plan A is designed to make the WS see what they will be giving up if the M ends in Dv.There is a fine line between meeting EN/avoiding LB and being a doormat that enables the continuation of the A.

I also think that the WS must earn the title FWS by doing something specific. A FWS didn't break their vows, a WS did. While still a WS, almost anything that was done or said or even felt is suspect, IMO.

Mark

Hi Tony,

I hope you are doing well. We've been worried about you. No WW here, so I cant provide any insite. BUT... the decision is not all hers. She's caused a LOT of damage, you only want her back if she's repentant and contrite. An angry, bitter WW is no prize, as I'm sure you've seen.

Has she stopped seeing OM?

Remember, you did a great Plan A... go to Plan B if she's still cake-eating. I do not know how you've managed for so long in this situation. That you have any love in your heart for her speaks for itself. Amazing.

I'm gone for the weekend, see you Monday, if you're still around. Please take care - Dru

Hi DRU.

Thank you for your concern, it means so much to me.
I stopped posting here because she was reading it, and she got a lot of harsh words, that kind of blew up the whole plan A thing, and she thinks that I’m doing what I’ve been told here to do, so I stopped posting, now I might post after my actions.

I’m doing ok, I will make it, I know that much.

As of my stitch goes, well I think I should go to plan D.

My heart is heavy today, very heavy.

We talked yesterday; I LB’d a lot.

Well DRU my love bank is drained, all I have left is my choice to love.
Yes I’m no superman, I’m no hero, but I still care, because this is just me, I can’t hate her
She is the mother of our children, she was the love of my life, and I know I was hers.

The hard part is I know how madly in love with me she was, and me with her, I know I didn’t show it much, but I have no doubt about my love for her, the problem is I showed
The wrong way, but I didn’t know, I took care of her, she felt fathered, and I guess trapped, she felt down on herself.
I know this is not an excuse for what she did, and I’m not trying to find excuses for her A.
But I’m detaching myself from her whirlwind. I have to do this to stay focused, but it’s hard.

She does hear what I’m telling her, and I think she even agrees with a lot of it.
The only problem is she doesn’t like to be told what to do, and she doesn’t like to
Be wrong.

She told me that this is have nothing to do with OM, the M is been dead for a long time.

And that I am blaming OM because I don’t want to blame myself.

I can’t believe she is saying that, I took my share of the M problem long time ago, and I keep apologizing for it, I’ve been doing plan A before I even knew about plan A, I’ve been doing it for more then 2 years now, before OM was even in the picture.

The problem was I was plan Aing her, I need to plan A the kids and me now.

And let the chips fall wherever they do.

I told her that in our best interest and the best interest of the kids we need to try to work on us. And that I know that she doesn’t feel it’s possible at this moment, I know that people
Usually give each other a second chance, because if we don’t try, we wouldn’t know.
And I know that it might not work, but how would we know if we don’t even try.
I know that some people where in worst places then we are in now and they recovered.

And I know that OM had nothing to do with the state of our M before the A.
But now he needs to go in order fro us to have a chance, and all the counselors I talked
To agree with that.
Dr Harley is one of them, my IC is one of them, and I have a good friend she is a counselor, and a highly recommended one, I’ve known her husband for more then 10 years, but she is all booked up and she can’t counsel us, because it’s a conflict of interest.
And she agrees with the NC.

I told her. Rain you know I didn’t twist your arm to marry me, and I will not twist your arm to stay married, your choice.

Then I took my wedding ring her wedding ring and the engagement ring, put them all together, and told “ Rain these rings used to mean the world to you because they tied us together, now they feel like hand cuffs to you for the same reason, because they tie us together, they symbolize the old marriage we had, well the old marriage is dead, you can have the rings.”

If we decide to work on a new marriage, we will have new rings, your choice.

Now I need to get my self-respect back, and I know what I need to do.

Tony.

Hi Tony,

Look this was predictible. Plan A is only meant to go on for a very limited time, few months at most. Then you go to Plan B so that you dont end up loosing all respect for yourself! and any admiration you have left for the WS. This is classic Plan A abuse! You are very overdue for Plan B. Please consider this now, OK? This will help with rebuilding your self-esteem. The time for her walking all over you needs to come to an end!

Also, if she was really that unhappy with the M, she would have D you or at least left by now. She's keeps stringing you along for a reason. If it was so bad, OM would have been an exit A, and she WOULD HAVE EXITED!!

I hope you can she that your W has treated you cruely, and that you need to start taking care of yourself. I really feel bad for you, but this will not end until you TAKE CONTROL of your life. I cant imagine allowing this type of pain to go on for so long.

Let us know how we can help. Please take care - Dru

Tony, EVERYTHING is a turn off when you are in the fog, and especially when you are still in the A.

I found Plan A incredibly insincere, insulting and unbelievable. You chose all of the sudden when the sugar tree is shook, to behave in a manner that is suddenly appeasing. KEEP IN MIND, I'M TALKING DIRECTLY ABOUT MY H HERE.

The WS or soon after FWS is looking for perfection from you, if you deliver anything less, it is cause, and justification. I do believe Plan A can be effective, and maybe even necessary to win your S back.

It needs to be sincere, I guess is all I'm saying.

I'm a RWW, R = recovered. I've been recovered for 2 years, the A has been over for 3 years, my M is still in the works. I however, have over came many of my character flaws which had led me to my A.

Hope this helps.

KY

Tony,

Can you get the book "Getting The Love You Want" by Harville Hendrix? I'm reading it now and lights are going off for me all over the place. I swear, I'm in it.

Would you do this, like you did the other two books? Get them right away?

Thinking of you,

LA

Thank you guys, i will update later.

Tony.

I LOVED THAT BOOK!!! I'm in there, too. You marry your parents (my 1st H) or their opposite (#2)! I thought that was an awfully big brush that covered a lot of area, but it seems to be true. It's one extreme or the other <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> - Dru

I think the BS is a turnoff and they have thrown respect in the trunk with the decision to engage in an A..probably before.

Plan A is a tool..but it does NOT establish respect it does allow cake eating more or less consequence free..so prolonged plan A COULD imo cause further loss of respect.

Plan B on the other hand alters the status quo and is usually a big part of the return on respect...they work TOGETHER..they are more effective together than individually.

HI DRU.

I hear you.

No plan B here she is going to file for plan D.

I couldn’t go to plan B because I was not going to leave the house, and she wasn’t leaving either.

And I had promised myself that I wasn’t going to be the one filing because I wasn’t going
To didn’t and still don’t want to put the kids through this, she is going to be the one to pull the trigger, and she is the one that is going to live with it for the rest of her life.
One day she will realize what she did, one day she will regret it, oh well, her choice.

I know I did everything I could to save this M, but I cannot make, or control her choices.

She is choosing to destroy our family and I can’t do anything about it, all I can do is try
To crash-land as softly as possible, and pick up the pieces, or what’s left of them.

It’s going to be a disaster, her choice.

I can’t do this anymore, I can’t fight anymore, I am putting down my arms, is this giving up? Maybe, but like Dru said the pain is been going on for a long time.

I can feel it now, I can barely sleep, and when I do I wake up with my heart pounding so hard,
I can see my chest move.

Kyeloow thank you for the input, its good to know that some people wake up and recover; I don’t think my WW will.

Quote:
“If it was so bad, OM would have been an exit A, and she WOULD HAVE EXITED!!”

AN EXIT A. give me a break, OM is not leaving his family, and she knows it, SHE KNOWS THAT THIS IS A DEAD END.

She just doesn’t want to work on the M, or even try. Her choice.

She is living by her feelings now.

Quote:
“Let us know how we can help. Please take care – Dru”

Just knowing that you guys care and are always here to listen is enough for me.

Thank you LA, but I think I'm done.
thank you noodle.

is it normal to still have feelings for her?
i mean I still do i just don't know why.
could it be my FOG?
i wish I could stop loving her.
sometimes I wish I never did.

Tony.

Hi Tony,

Can you get more specific? Where is she living, what are her plans, what has she actually done? How does she plan to support herself, what's the plan for the kids? Have you reexposed to OMW? Her family?

Many here would say nothing has really changed. You are NOT divorced, so you still have a fighting chance. Something to consider.

And even if you no longer want the marriage, you need to be very smart about the divorce. You'll regret it later if you roll over now. See Papaof3's thread for worst case scenerio. Yikes.


Yes, apparently it's very normal. Seems there's no shortage of nice men crying over manipulitive, self-centered women. You deserve a better wife. It's very much a shame she cannot bring herself to save this family. Please take care of yourself!! - Dru

HI DRU.

She is still at home, she is still withdrawn, last night she made dinner, I can’t remember
When was the last time she made dinner.

Exposure oh well, her family doesn’t want me to call them, they only know what she tells them and it’s not much. OMW doesn’t want to hear from me, it’s affecting her recovery,
I exposed to OM’s boss the pastor, he chose not to believe it and when my W was ready to tell him the truth he refused to meet with us.

I will be careful with the divorce.

Quote:
“Yes, apparently it's very normal. Seems there's no shortage of nice men crying over manipulative, self-centered women. You deserve a better wife. It's very much a shame she cannot bring herself to save this family. Please take care of yourself!! – Dru”

Thank you Dru, the nicest thing I have heard for a long time.

Taking care of myself, hmm, I forgot how, I’ve been taking care of others for as long as I remember, I don’t think I even know how to care for myself, when I go out with friends, I feel guilty, that I’m away from the kids, and for a strange reason, from her to.

Figure that one out.

Thank you. (((((DRU))))).

Tony,

Taking care of yourself...

Support, encourage, recognized and acknowledge your self.

Know what your stress feels like and how to relieve it in a healthy way...not through distraction...

Keep a gratitude journal and an anger journal...uhm, separately...

Increase your awareness of what you do for yourself...when you go to work in the morning (I know you work for yourself), you're also going for you, your marriage, your family and others (the clients you serve)...count yourself in there...

When you get a haircut...buy a shirt...iron a shirt...make a bed...fix a lunch...hug your children...laugh at the news...all has YOU in there...no sacrifice...delight...find and stay aware of these things...

When you see blue sky...far-off mountains...smell the ocean...notice a spiral cloud...all good caretaking of yourself...seeing what you see...

Not taking in what others think as being truer than what you think...

Posting more.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

LA

Than you LA.

And happy Halloween.

I’m trying, but every thing I do have a bitter aftertaste to it, I think I’m getting to a point
Where, my pain is permanent because I’m getting used to it.

She can’t see the pain this is causing me, because I’ve been taught to hide my emotions,
You know “big boys don’t cry”.

I think I’m letting myself down, my kids down, and letting her down, I was always the strong one, I was always there for her when she needed a hug, or a shoulder to cry on.
I was always there, I still am, and she just doesn’t want me.

She have no idea how much infidelity hurts, she should, she was cheated on, I guess she forgot, or she just doesn’t want to see it, it’s easier for her not to see it.

Thank you for listening.

Tony.

{{{Tony}}}

I'm sorry that you have to go through the pain. It seems so unfair when only one person can decide to destroy the family. My WH filed for D, and I did pretty much everything you did - crying, pleading, begging, writing letters, etc. None worked.

It takes time to heal. I'm not healed yet, but am doing much better than a year ago. I was devastated and could not even focus on my work. Also I was very scared - scared of my future without him. But here I am, I have survived. And I know you can too.

It is okay to cry. Don't suppress your emotions. You won't feel great overnight, but after crying or letting out your emotions, you feel a bit better.

She will understand the pain she has caused you one day, maybe because she herself has to experience the same thing (but on the other side), or when she faces a big challenge in her life. She will remember how you have stood by and tried so hard to save your marriage. I am sure of it. But for now she is in the fog so don't expect her to understand you.

Take care,
Milk

Hi Milk.

Thank you for your kind words, and thank you for the hugs.

I know that time will heal my pain, but time will only hurt my kids, she doesn’t see that
Right now and she might never see it, she will blame it on other things.

I’m not sure if you ever heal from this, you might just get used it.

How could you heal when you will see the pain in your children eyes, for as long as you live.

I know I have done my best, but I guess my best wasn’t good enough, at least not good enough for her.

But I’m only human.

Tony.

Tony,

One thing you must remember is that you cannot control the choices that your WW makes. The best Plan A/B or whatever is only a strategy for trying to save the marriage, but your WW's personal flaws might have prevented her from ever responding to it in the way for which it was designed.

You can only play with the cards you were dealt.

It was never your fault that she chose to have an affair. It is not your fault that she failed to correct that bad choice by trying to save her marriage.

Some people unconsciously sabotage their own happiness by continually making bad choices.

Dedicate yourself to your children's happiness and you will have a life purpose worthy of the best meaning of the words.

Thank you Hiker.

this is what I'm focusing on right now.
it's hard verrry hard.

I just want the pain to stop.

Tony.

Believe me when I say this, I understand your pain. It comes in waves. Some days you feel okay; on others, you're caught up in a morass of self-despair.

Why did she do this? How can she throw all those wonderful memories -- the good times that you shared -- away so easily? How can she have so little regard for your children's emotional welfare?

It is easy for people to see and acknowledge the self-destructive tendencies of drug addicts and alcoholics. We understand there is some kind of emotional emptiness that these people are trying to either fill or escape from. What most folks don't understand is that some affairs are fueled by this same kind of emptiness, and wayward spouse's are just as addicted to this "drug" as other addicts are to the pharmaceutical kind.

When you think of how desperate can be the actions of an drug addict to get their fix, you understand there is very little they won't do. Some waywards approach this kind of desperation as well. Years ago I knew a woman (a highly intelligent doctor) who once had an affair. She told me that at the time she hoped her husband would have some kind of accident resulting in his death so she could pursue her lover unencumbered by her marriage.

It's no wonder people look at this kind of behavior as a form of temporary insanity. The self-destructive nature of it would be readily apparent to anybody with a fair degree of common sense.

You may never know the answer as to why she did it. And it is entirely possible that there was NOTHING you could have done to recover your marriage.

So what about the pain? There are two cures for it. Time will ease it, though never quite erase it. Finding someone else to love and who can return that love is the surest cure.

As a result of this tragedy, you now know much more about relationships and how to make a great marriage. Even though it doesn't feel like it now, your chances of having a wonderful, fulfilling, relationship are much better than your wayward spouse's.

That is something you can look forward to.