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xAndrew Offline OP
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My Wife and I have been married for 7 year, and dated about a year before marriage. We have a 2.5 year old daughter (Born May 2004). I discovered my wife has been having an affair, which she assures me has been ended, but only recently. (since it was discovered)

Initially I was of course terribly angry and upset. She was on vacation with her sisters at the time, but I could not hold it in and I called her and confronted her over the phone. Despite my certainty of the affair, she initially denied it. I went down a list of reasons I knew she was lying, some real (mysterious friend I never meet, cell phone records), some 'bluffs' (GPS tracking, Txt message logs, and other 007 things I'm sure are not practical) and eventually she admitted she had been carrying on the affair 18 months. The other man is a former co worker, and it sounds like the affair follows the exact recipe outlined so many times. They were friends and then it just sort of happened.

So, 2 days pass, with me sitting at home in a rage - disbelief - hurt cycle. During that time I try and sort out what my reaction will be when she comes home. Unfortunately anger clouds me to a point that I come up with what I now realize was the worst possible reaction. I make a list of demands, I tell her I am not sure I want to reconcile or divorce, but for the time being here are the 'rules'. Now she is devastated in addition I'm devastated. The rules I set forth were something along these lines.

-Never see the OM again. Send him an email saying its over
and break off all contact.

-Agree that I can monitor your cell and movements until we
can rebuild trust

-Agree to move in with your sister for at least 2 weeks
while we decide what to do (reconcile/divorce)

So, as stupid as that all sounds, the worst part was the delivery. I sat in a chair and commanded that these must happen. She sat on the couch in tears and took it.

Not surprisingly, she decides after the first night at her sisters that she wants to divorce. What was a huge surprise to me, was that same night I had decided that I was making a huge mistake and wanted to reconcile. I spent that night apart reading, researching, and soul searching. In short order I recognized that the affair was wrong, but it was caused by all the things Dr H outlines. I was not meeting any of her needs, and she was not meeting any of mine.

Thinking back on our marriage, I can't remember a time when we ever did meet each others basic needs. We got married in our early 20's, and it was supposed to be easy. We were in love and what else could we possibly need. In short, we never had the knowledge about how a marriage works. We were both extremely ignorant. Now here we are 7 years later, with a child together on the verge of divorce, a divorce I do not want.

I've found forgiveness. I've forgiven her affair, I've forgiven the years that my needs went un-met. I've made a commitment to myself to stop being a person I don't like. I've examined my life and identified the things that are out of line with who I want to be and I am changing them. but the problem is my wife does not believe the marriage can be saved. For 7 years she has been miserable, her needs going unmet. She carries huge guilt about the affair, as well as going through the pain of breaking it off. She has so much anger that I do not know how to progress in patching thing up.

The stratagem as I understand it from 'His Needs Her Needs' seems very simple. Just start meeting her needs. While she is dead set on getting divorced she has been willing to take the emotional needs survey. Her top 5 are Conversation, Family Commitment, Rec Companion, Sex, Affection in that order.

The problem is I don't know how to actually meet those needs.

Conversation - Whatever we start talking about, ends up in a discussion about our marriage. initially this was fine, there was a lot to cover, but know she ends up saying that I am pressuring her. Or, I make an effort to steer away from talking about us, and she still gets upset about being pressured, because while I'm talking about some TV show she likes, 'She knows what I really mean'. So even though it has nothing to do with us, she interprets just about anything I say as being about the relationship, even when it is not.

Family Commitment - I'm a great Dad to our Daughter, this is probably the only need that was being met for the last 2.5 years. I don't know if there is something more I should try and do here. It would be the easiest to improve on because I enjoy time with my little girl, I could take our Daughter to a swim class or something, but I'm not sure that will help the marital situation at all.

Recreational Companion - Over the years we've grown so far apart that we have no common interest to fall back on. We needs to build some, but at this point she is on her way out the door and not willing to do so. I enjoy and try to watch some of the shows she likes, but I don't feel like that’s really making any progress either. the entire time we are together she is withdrawn, its like I can almost feel the anger radiating off her.

Sex - Somehow, I just don't think this is possible. perhaps its sleeping in different rooms, or maybe angry statements like 'I'll never have sex with you again' But I think she is definitely not in a position to let me meet this need.

Affection - I've tried getting her cards, or doing nice little favors. they seem to go unnoticed. she will read the card say thanks and then be just as mad at me. I'll do something nice and get a polite thank you and then back to anger. If I try and give her a hug, or say something nice, then she says I'm pressuring her, or 'Don't touch me'


Basically, it feels like no matter what I do, I'm just making things worse. I just don't know how to make any progress when everything that is suggested seems to only make the situation worse. Help me.....

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1. has contact with the OM ended?

2. how long since you discovered the affair and confronted her?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Conversation means just that - conversation. It doesn't matter what it is about. Right now your wife doesn't want to talk about your relationship. Just talk about what she wants to talk about. If she wants to talk about some stupid TV show, talk to her about that. Figure out what is okay to talk about and what isn't. Let her bring up some subject, and you need to learn to talk about them intelligently and with humor. Then you start a conversation about a similar subject to try and engage her.

I am going through a similar situation. The first thing that I learned is that I need to talk to her about what she likes to talk about. Right now most of the stuff we talk about is stupid reality TV shows. I'll watch Laguna Beach, or Real World/Road Rules Challenge with her and then we just make fun of the people on TV. Or we'll watch the Office, Earl, or the Soup, and I'll quote a line from the show throughout the week. Maybe I'll ask her if she heard the news about Britney Spears and Kevin Federline's breakup. I'll crack a joke about who he'll impregnate next. Women love talking about stupid crap. You need to learn their world and take enough interest in it to maintain a decent conversation about it. You won't be able to have a conversation with her about the Rutgers/Louisville college football game last night because she didn't watch it, so you need to get familiar with her world so you can talk about it. She'll take more of an interest in your world if you get back together, but right now you need to immerse yourself in pop culture and current events so you have something to talk with your wife about that can't be miscontrued as relationship talk.

- Jim

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Can someone post Suzet's thread on withdrawal for him? I am in my office and don't have it here.

Andrew, if her affair recently ended, then she is going through withdrawal. You cannot meet her needs while she is in this state, but it will get better after a few months AS LONG AS CONTACT HAS ENDED. If contact has not ended, it will always be like this because she will never recover.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Well, your situation seems very hopeful to me. She was willing to take the emotional needs questionnaire? That doesn't happen often, right after an affair.

It took 7 years for your marriage to get this way, and it is not going to be fixed in a week or two.

I suggest you try to spend 15 hours a week doing fun things together. That should give you something to talk about. Try to do the things you did when you were dating.

The family commitment thing is easy. Spend time with your daughter. Take her to the park, read to her, play games with her. You can fix things around the house, help with cleaning, cooking, etc.

Your daughter is the perfect age for a swim class, dancing, dramatics, or similar play things - check out your local Y.

What does your wife like to do for recreation? What do you like? There are so many things to do, I don't believe you will have a problem picking out something new even.

Put the sex on the back burner for now. That comes later.

She probably won't go for affection right now either.
But you can do works of action - like washing her car, painting something for her, planting new flowers, etc.

It is a big mistake for her to be living seperately.

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xAndrew,

As an aside. Your "demands" were entirely appropriate and you should be commended for being upfront and giving your WW YOUR boundaries.

DO NOT BE WAYLAID following Plan A at the expense of these boundaries.

If there is a choice between boundaries and Plan A , ENFORCED boundaries win hands down


Divorced:
"Never shelter anyone from the realities of their decisions": Noodle

You believe easily what you hope for ernestly

Infidelity does not kill marriages, the lying does
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"Women love talking about stupid crap. You need to learn their world and take enough interest in it to maintain a decent conversation about it."

Well said, jmwc95, and you can bet the other man has learned to talk about stupid crap.

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[Threadjack]

Quote
Women love talking about stupid crap.

My XH and I enjoyed talking about art, music, politics and the lives and welfare of our children.

He left me for a woman who loves talking about stupid crap. [/Threadjack]


Alph.


Me, BS 37 Him, WXH (Noddy) 40 DD13, DD6 Married 14th August 1993 D/Day 2nd April 05 Noddy left us 3rd April 05, lives with OW (Omelette) 28 Divorce final 6th July '06. Time wounds all heels... - Groucho Marx ...except when it doesn't. - Graycloud
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Maybe I'll ask her if she heard the news about Britney Spears and Kevin Federline's breakup. I'll crack a joke about who he'll impregnate next. Women love talking about stupid crap.

ummmm, I happen to work with all men and I KNOW what they talk about. They tell the same jokes as 13 yr old boys and laugh just as hard at age 55 as they do at age 13!

Case in point, this week my coworker explained to me that "CAddyshack is a CLASSIC MOVIE." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> HUH!? I have since discovered that most men agree with this, except for the ones who think that ANIMAL HOUSE is a "classic." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Case in point, this week my coworker explained to me that "CAddyshack is a CLASSIC MOVIE." HUH!? I have since discovered that most men agree with this, except for the ones who think that ANIMAL HOUSE is a "classic."

And I suppose you would have said "Gone With The Wind"?
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
lol

Of course Animal house is a classic..........everybody knows that...DUH.
So is Blues Brothers and Blazing Saddles.

You girls............
<shrugs> sheeeece <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

JS


Me 44
WW 32
S 12 D 8 S 5
M 12yrs
W Moved out 07/22/06
ww served me divorce papers 10/04/06

My first post

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xAndrew Offline OP
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Thanks for the input. I value the comments and suggestions.


She is no longer in contact with the OM. According to her at least, and some limited checking up I've done does not disprove that. The Affair was discovered about 2 weeks ago.

Time is the biggest problem for me. She wants a divorce, and has been willing to commit 1 month to workign things out. If we cannot by then, well who knows, but she says, she'll go forward with the divorce alone if she has too.

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Tell her you don't want a divorce, and will not cooperate in breaking up your family.

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Andrew, read this thread about withdrawal so you can understand where she is at. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post2686313

In the meantime, don't commit to any time lines, tell her you won't even discuss divorce. If she wants to leave, she is free to go but you won't allow her to take any furniture, your DD or your family money. You won't finance her apartment and expect her to continue to pay your mortgage and other family bills.

It is real important taht you assure her that you will not make it easy for her divorce you. This will give her PAUSE if she knows you won't cooperate. And she MUST KNOW you won't cooperate.

Also, it will take her longer than a month to withdraw from the OM. It takes around 3-6 months depending on the length and intensity of the affair.

Do you have the book Surviving an Affair? I would suggest getting this ASAP and reading it. When you are done, leave it out so she can see it.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Is the OM married and, if so, does his W know about the affair? Because if not, this should be done ASAP in order to close off that avenue of contact.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Quote
And I suppose you would have said "Gone With The Wind"?
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
lol

Of course Animal house is a classic..........everybody knows that...DUH.
So is Blues Brothers and Blazing Saddles.

You girls............
<shrugs> sheeeece <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

JS

MEN! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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xAndrew,

Ok, let's put a bow around this thing for you.

First, right now she is in withdrawal. She has had 18 months to attach to OM, AND to vilify you (how else could she justify the affair?). She will be in withdrawal for at least 2-3 months. You can do nothing about this. If she can divorce in this short a period of time...she likely will and there is little you can do.

If you don't assist in the divorce and you drag things out, there is a chance the marriage can be saved.

What to do? Well you will find a long list of things YOU can do.

1. Go to a lawyer and protect yourself and your child ( do recall you have a child right?). Do this first and that means NOW.

2. Read the articles here and learn about love busters, needs, the 4 rules of a good marriage, as well as the policy of "radical honesty" and the policy of joint agreement, POJA. You don't need ALL of this information now but you will.

3. Work on your love busters and remove them.

4. Realize you cannot control her or her feelings. You can only control yourself and how you interact with her, consider this, study this, and then apply this.

5. Don't make any promises right now.

6. Verify to the best of your ability that the affair has stopped. If you find it has not, then you expose it to her family, your family, his family. You do it not for revenge but to seek help in ending the affair.

7. Realize that this is going to take TIME and PATIENCE. You will need patience with yourself and your W.

8. Focus on your child first and foremost, then focus on YOU. AS for your W, don't worry about her right now. Be civil, don't LB, but she has decisions she needs to make.

9. REALIZE THIS ABOVE ALL ELSE. You did NOT cause her to have the affair. You were not consulted, your were not asked, and you were lied to and deceived. Your failures in the marriage were partially responsible for the state of the marriage, but the affair is ALL HERS.

Ok, when you work through this list, there is MORE to do, but start here. Oh, and you did NOT love bust with your demands. They were dead on and what will have to happen for your marriage to be saved.

You are going to hear a lot of lies, half lies, self-justification, and rewriting of your maritial history, don't beleive it. Lay the affair squarely at her feet, but don't LB.

Must go.

God Bless,

JL

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One big thing you must not do: Don't give her a no contest divorce if you don't want to divorce.

I gave my ex a no contest and it was a huge mistake. Had I hung in there, shown some tough love, and followed the advice from this site, I think we would still be together. Instead, I lay down and gave her all she wanted.

Appeasement won't get you anywhere. A consistent and constant re-enforcement that you're in this no matter what and that you are committed to changing is what you need. Keep stating so to her and don't stop.

Good luck.


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EXWW-27
DD-4
DS-Twin boys, 2
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xAndrew Offline OP
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Thank you all so much for the advice and support, heres an update. As always comments and suggestions are appreciated.

My WW agreed to No contact right after the affair was discovered. I have found out about several contacts and a meeting (just for coffee... lets hope anyway) since that time. Each time I confronted her, re-iterated that there was to be No contact. On Saturday the OM attempted to Instant Message WW and I happened to see the unresponded conversation on her computer. I confronted her and she Blocked OM from her friend list. Last night I went to Her computer and signed her in, only to see OM was again unblocked.

So, having read up on exposure, and several other articles dealing with ending the affair I confronted her and said that she must block and then delete OM from her IM. I told her this was the final time I was askign nicely, any further contact and I will expose the affair to everyone, friends, family, co-workers.

Now, I realize that it is a bit of a risk to warn her of the consequence, but I just didn't have the heart to Expose based on a suspicion that she was in contact Via IM. She is very unlikely to expose the affair herself as she is horribly ashamed and very much hoping that people will not find out.

Informing her of the consequence made her furious. She called her sister (the only person she has told of the affair) to rally support. Her sister supports her side that the affair must be kept secret and that I should just trust WW to maintain no contact. WW's sister is also very upset that I would threaten to destory WW's career and violate her privacy. I'm not quite sure how or if to address that.

Despite several hours of 'I hate you, I loathe you' conversation from WW, she did loathe me slightly less than the idea of sleeping in the guest bed, so perhaps that is a positive sign.

Just the thought of exposure is very hard, I'm not sure how I will feel if I actually have to go through with it. Couple that with the pure venom spewing out of WW (and WW sister) it made for a very unpleasent evening.

Any idea what to expect next? It feels like a very big step backwards, we went from being civil and gettign along reasonably well to her shutting down completely save the occasion 'I hate you'. Just based on tehintensity of her reaction I have to assume 9 and hope0 that this degree of emotion cannot hold up long.


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