I started writing this long, long post, and decided I am way to wordy so I shortened it to this...

J tells me by phone tonight he misses me terribly, madly in love with me, is empty without me, can't stand being apart from me, hasn't been able to eat, sleep or think about anything else but me/us since I left and he knows I am the one forever for him. Wants to discuss marriage.

I just said, "I'm stunned. I am caught off guard. I just don't know what to say." I tell him, I never doubted his love but I did doubt whether I was the one for him. He said, "No, there's no doubt in my mind, you are the one, I love the way you talk to me, the way you hold my hand, look at me, how you are so kind to everyone, everything about you, ..."

I'm just stunned since we broke up in September I have done nothing but focus on moving on, I thought he was moving on too, I thought this would never in a million years happen.

I didn't ask him anything, I don't know what "I" want anymore. I avoided talking in detailed about marriage, getting back together or anything else.

The last couple of months I have been coming up with every reason I can think of as to why he isn't the man for me, why he did me a favor...etc. etc. I am not sure if it's because it made me feel better thinking this since there was no chance for us or whether he isn't the one now.

Well, just an update and if anyone touches me with a feather, I really do think I would fall over.

I hope I sleep tonight. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Either way, that was probably a useful exercise. And under the circumstances, it's good not to be sure right now. After all, you wouldn't want to make any precipitous decisions...

I don't see this as a surprise... I didn't think there was ever any question about his love and devotion to you and the relationship - the issue always seemed to be your different timelines for marriage, as I recall. So when you say he wants to "discuss marriage", what does that mean in real terms? You already "discussed" it in the past, remember? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

AGG

It is very different AGG, I know J very well. He wouldn't be telling me all this unless his mind had changed. I kept steering him off the subject last night because I needed time to think about what he was saying but I do think if I wanted marriage soon, he would do it soon. I also know he was very sincere.

No time will write later, but I have no doubt this is sincere for J.

Hi Anna,

I would wonder what he's been doing for the last couple of months. I'm sorry but I don't remember if you broke up with him or he with you, or it was mutual.

Make a list, good qualities in him & the relationship.
Bad qualities...

Take YOUR time.

Anna,

You need to proceed with caution!! When someone is on-again/off-again, this is telling. Something rather serious inside has been going on.

At the least for me this would mean a VERY long, substantial, in-depth courtship/proving period to make certain, ABSOLUTELY certain this is what you both want, and he is for real.

Don't ever forget, we all tend to project our own feelings into someone else & ASSume they are therefore feeling the same....not necessarily so.

YOU are sincere. Him?? Maybe...maybe not. You need to proceed with full alertness & caution at this point.

Prayer will help you,
High Flight

I am not questioning his sincerity. I am saying that you broke up with him, and presumably you had good reasons to do so. You questioned a lot of things about him at that time, not just his unwillingness to get married in the next year or two. I recall issues like him not spending "family" time with you and your kids, you and him mostly going on "fun" dates, etc. You questioned his maturity, as I recall.

All I am saying is that when someone suddenly says "Fine, I miss you and I changed, so now we are perfect", I would look at it as a red flag rather than a "Whoopee!!" moment. Not to shift the limelight onto me, but when G told me that she had an epiphany after I broke up with her and is now exactly what I wanted, that was not something I was going to believe.

I second what HF said, go very slowly...

AGG

Personally, I'd give it a miss. It took him two months to figure it out? Now, he's ready to settle down? After you break up with him, he can't stop thinking about you? I just don't get a "warm and fuzzy," as my M would say.

Although, you should get a huge ego boost. LOL.

Thanks all for the comments. I read them all, taking them all in, not sure how I feel about this sudden turn.

Just to answer some of the things that you guys asked...

The last two months I pretty much know what he was doing...I have no doubt that he was home most of the time, by himself, watching movies, playing his guitar or at the local book store. Two years ago when we were on again/off again, on our off weekend, it's exactly where he would always be.

The singles group we both hang out with have said when he goes with them, he flirts with no one and he seems sad. His best friend which is also a very good friend of mine told me he was with him watching football games etc this weekend and he was cordial but very distracted.

He did try to contact me when we broke up to tell me he misses me, can't stand it etc. but I always cut him short.

He told me he thought he didn't have much of a chance because in October we were both invited to a Halloween party, I declined and on IM he said, "I wish you would go", I said, "I can't." He said, "Maybe some day you can go to places I am at too. I don't want you out of my life." I said, "You broke my heart, I can never be at the same place you are anymore." I meant mainly it's not good for me because we can't be together so I need to move on. He said last night, "I thought you meant it was too late for us even if I changed my mind because I broke your heart."

Also, I called our friend, he said, "Why are you surprised just because it's been 2 months? You know J. You know how long it takes him to do things, think things through, he's takes longer than anyone I have ever known but when he decides, he knows for sure."

J also told me last night that I took him so off guard, while marriage was mentioned and while he always thought some day we would he said he thought it would be years from now. Which is true, I always told him I wouldn't be ready for maybe years. He said, then to him out of the blue I say I want him to think about it and by the end of this year if we move forward I want him to start becoming spending more family time together and if we are meant to be, be engaged in about a year. He said it sounded like an ultimatum and plus shocked him...

AGG, just to clarify, J never acted like he didn't want to spend time with me and the boys, my biggest concern was that I was the one always instigating family activities, J was always "good to go" once I said "let's do this or that, but I didn't like it that he rarely made comments like, "Let's take the boys here or there..." He always enjoyed the baseball games, enjoy swim meets, he'd yell for my boys and cheer them on as much as I would, and we both got excited when they did well. I do recall one time when he insisted on going to a swim meet with me, I told him he didn't need to because he would have to get up at 6:00 and I was timing so he would be alone in the bleachers, he then offered to time with me as a volunteer and said he wanted to be there.

Also, up until the last 6 months we were together I wouldn't let him be around the boys much because our first year was so on/off and I wanted to make sure the first 6 months we stayed together.

Well, sounds like I am trying to defend him and maybe I am but also I did think I needed to set the record straight a little.

I have to cut this short...I have kid's stuff to do.

Thanks for all the advice, I am taking everything in I promise.

A

Aren't some of you so... tough? A bit of tollerance please <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I.e., before any of us make a (big) decision, we have some thoughts, we put on the scale pluses and minuses, and wait till we are ready for those big decisions, right?
And he has the same right.

I mean, there IS 'a wake up call', and sometimes it takes some time to figure out how much SO really means, and what we really need and who and why, and if it is time to settle down...

Anna, just be open, don't rush in any decision, and I'm sure YOU will find what's the best to do... I.e. keep doing what you are doing, it seems to me you know what you are doing. :-)

No problem defending him - in fact, you might remember that I always had trouble understanding why you broke up with him to begin with. The "he wants to wait a few years before getting married" explanation never made sense to me - if something is great and you have the same vision in mind, why break it off? It's not like you want to have kids and your clock is going off, so what's the hurry?

So you certainly don't need to defend him to me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />, it's more like I am asking you to understand for yourself why you broke up with him before,and what has changed. Ya know?

AGG

AGG, Yes, and I do need think so much about everything. Oh and on the vision, we did not have the same vision. I wanted a commitment, an engagement within a year or sooner, he did not want to consider a major engagement until 4 or 5 years. Big difference in our vision.

Nams,

So I was thinking about all the positive things and negative things, the list you suggested. Here are some....

Positive:

He's attentive
Good listener
Supportive
Kind
Laid back
Easy Going
Loving
Gentle
Patient
Giving of his time (IE., would rub my back all night long if I asked him to.)
Different in a good way from other men
Respectful
Neat
His arms could be around me all night long and I would sleep (never felt that before, I usually don't like someone hugging me all night, I feel smothered)
We agree on most everything which makes every day with him seem so easy
Never looks at other women in my presence
Never goes out looking for other women when we break up

Negative things:

Somewhat of a perfectionist
Sometimes to much of a loner
Doesn't always express his opinion on topics
Would like him to express his opinions a little more
Almost to private to his friends
Immature in some ways
Not his fault but younger than me ( and yes that is a negative to me, I am just being honest and digging deep)
Would rather spend money on guitars than going on vacations with me (which is not as much of a giver when it comes to monetary things, especially if he'd have to give something up for himself, like a new guitar...)
Even though he has opened up a lot of doors to me, some how I feel like there are still more doors to open in his life.
Probably needs more "loner" time than he gets when we are dating.

This is a BIG one to me....

He's resisted are relationship each time we get to another step in it.

There's more but that is all I can think of.

Anna~~

I don't recall your story the first time around so I've been reading here trying to piece it together.

From what I'm seeing though, it seems as though J has many qualities. Actually.......more than not.

If it were me, I think I would give the relationship another try.

If you're anything like me, it will be an unanswered question if you don't see this thru.

One more thing......maybe you might refer back to your earlier thread of "I want a man......" see how many of the slots J fills.

Thinking of you!

K.

[color:"blue"] Wow, I didn't know when I did this J would fit all those [/color] [/color]

Thanks Karona!

Thank B2M, I think both the tough side and soft side are a good balance. This could be the most important decision I will make since I choice to divorce.

The one thing that nags at me is even though we have been steady together for a year, the first year he resisted our relationship, now this. After a year of being together, having an incredible relationship together, and he's not young any more, shouldn't wanting to be with me, be engaged to me, marry me just come a bit more naturally?

On here we do hash out everything, just like AGG's threads on G, is she right is she wrong for him? I wish I had a thread to read written by J. I only get the "Why I am right for him now?" I don't know the "Why I may not be?" Surely there is some things, I know there has to be. Do I walk in blindly and just believe him when he says there's absolutely nothing I can change about me? There were a few things early on, but we did resolve those, those were very minor.

Gotta get ready for work.

A

Anna, I figured out why I was so anti!

It’s because it took you breaking up with him, plus two months for him to figure out how important you were to him and decide to make a change. I would be afraid that this could be a recurring pattern. In other words, if you got married, and you were very unhappy about something, it would take a major upset like separation, etc., for him to realize how important you are to him and that he would rather change his behavior than loose you for good.

I just get the feeling he may be the type that comes here after the wife has moved out, and says “I never saw it coming. I never realized. And now she says it’s too late. How do I get her back?”

For me personally, I want someone who is willing to make adjustments looong before we get to the point of talking about or implementing separation.

Yes, GG, absolutely right.

Many of us have been married to or are people who have not spoken up for what we need to stay in a loving marriage. We can see the destructiveness of this say nothing, do nothing approach.

This might be a good thing to focus on Anna.

Instead of do you go back to him what would you need him to do to make you feel you can have the kind of relationship you want. Ask yourself, & him, if he's capable of that.

I guess I don't understand what the big deal is that he took some time to sit back and really consider "Do I want to get married?" and is this REALLY the person I WANT to spend the rest of my life with??

It sounds like he's asking himself some serious questions about HIS and HER future, and certainly not something to be rushed into just because "we've dated a year or two" Or, "well, ya know, we've been together so long we may as well get married" at least the man has some sense to him to really consider based on what He knows DO I REALLY WANT to spend the REST OF MY LIFE WITH THIS PERSON??

Sometimes it takes a person leaving to realize just how much you love them.

Look at this board, it's filled with people who didn't realize just how much they loved their spouse UNTIL AFTER they left, and for most of them...by that point it was to late.

It took their spouses leaving to even begin to look inside and see what things they COULD have done differently, to see how they didn't really show the person just how much they really loved and WANTED to be with them.

So that J is looking at those things BEFORE he makes a major life changing decision to MARRY shows a lot of maturity on his part concerning his feelings.

This is a HUGE step for him, Is he READY to be an instant dad to teenage boys? Is he ready to decide he NEVER wants kids of his own? Is He ready to take on that responsibility?
Is he willing to put their needs before his own? They aren't his kids, but he will be a major part of their lifes.

I should hope he takes some time to seriously consider those things before He jumps into a marriage.

This is a man who has NEVER been married, he's never been truly responsible for anyone but himself, so yeah, I would hope he's considering all of these things, and if it takes him two months or two years....who cares..it's a HUGE step.

AGG,

I realize you are not dating G anymore, but if you were wanting to marry her, wouldn't you want her to take as much time as she needed to REALLY think about whether or not she wanted Kids given the fact you don't want anymore? or If she was really prepared and wanted to take on the responsibility of being a step-mom to your kids?

Wouldn't you want her to be sure she could give up the some of her own dreams for her own life, without regret, without resentments? And really be happy and content with that choice?

Anna, don't you want to know he's considered all of those things BEFORE he marries you? I mean what would happen if he didn't consider those things before hand, and he just out of the blue asked you to marry him, then you get married and he decides later He's not up to being a full-time dad to teenage boys, or up to sharing his life with someone else, he's not willing to make adjustments to his lifestyle, to really include others in it? It would cause HUGE problems and you'd end up divorced and feeling as if you'd been fed a bag of lies.

What have you been doing the past two months Anna that you have been apart? have you been considering what it will be like for him? Or your kids? Or you if you were to get married? Have you taken into consideration all the changes that HE will be making in his life? And the changes you and your boys will be making to bring this man into your/their home? You know and understand the full-time responsibilities of being a parent, HE doesn't. So what if it takes him a month or two or three or six to really think about if he wants to take on those responsibilities....to look at them and ask himself am I ready for this??

He owes it to himself and you to look honestly within to figure out if he's ready for those responsibilities or not, before moving forward. And to not expect that, or desire that, would be remiss not to mention disrespectful to HIM concerning his feelings on such a HUGE decision.


Sure for the past year, he's been dating you, and spending some time with you and your kids together, but that is a FAR cry from it being responsible for the welfare and care of the three of you. Emotionally, mentally, financially, maybe not 100% responsible in those areas, but still responsible.

That is asking and wanting a lot of a person, to want them to take on those responsibilities and then not to think about IF they are prepared for it, would be stupid on his part, or anyone's part who was thinking of going into such a marriage.

So I guess I don't understand what all the upset is about that he's actually taking the time to really think about if he's READY that kind of commitment or not!!

And in reality, two months isn't that long, when your considering a life time commitment..so that when you do have problems in the future, he knows he made the choice and commitment to be there, before he got there.

TR, I'd like to turn your question around a bit, and look at it from the standpoint that GG brought up. I, personally, do not care that it took J two months to figure out he wants to be married to Anna. It's good to think about things, no problem. Similarly, it would not have bothered me if G said to me, "AGG, this kid thing is a big deal, let me take a month off from our relationship and think about it". Sure, no problem.

What bothers me with both Anna and J, and with G, is that it took a breakup for someone to supposedly "see the light". I had that exact pattern with G over the time we were together - when we were together, she would argue very firmly why some of her lifestyle choices (going back East 6 times a year and wanting me to do the same, spending 2 hours getting ready, sleeping in, etc etc) were non-negotiables. So there would be no interest in negotiating or POJAing, it was more of a "you have to accept me as-is". But then, when I'd say "OK, fine, but that is not something I want to accept in my partner", she'd say "OK, fine, you are right, I see the light, I changed".

I don't believe that it should take threats or breakups to negotiate, that is a very bad precedent.

So, regarding Anna, what bothers me is that she broke up with him for some reason, and I heard many more reasons than simply "he won't marry me". Now, he is alone, and had an epiphany, and Anna says he's perfect (looking at her "I wanna" list) - well, is that the "new J" speaking or the "lonely J" talking?

AGG