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I have been married for almost two years. From the very beginning of our relationship, I was treated like a queen. My husband loved me more than I loved him. But everything changed when we got married. My husband is a Minister and spends a lot of hours at the church. The long hours at work became an issue very early in our marriage. He would come home around 10:00pm every night. This led to constant fighting and even longer hours away from home. I found out that on some nights when I thought he was working, he was actually spending time at the strip clubs. My concern is that he is a Minister and that is not setting a good example to the members in the church if they were to find out. He says that he does not care about his reputation and enjoys going to these clubs.

I asked my husband if he thought that he was assuming the roles of the husband that are listed in the Bible. He said that he was probably not but did not feel any remorse for this. He feels that he has made every effort and that a marriage should not require a whole lot of work. It should be a natural thing and we should intuitively know what the other person’s needs are.

When we were dating, we always enjoyed each other’s company. We had such a strong connection in the beginning. Lately my husband has said that we are not right for each other. He thinks that he made a mistake when he married me. He told me that I was not nurturing the way that he needed me to be. He said that I should just know what he needs when he needs it. Over the last year, he has formed an ally with a good friend of his. She was also having problems in her marriage and they started having lunch together twice a week. Then, they started exchanging suggestive text messages. He swears that nothing else happened.

About 2 months ago, my husband told me that he wanted a 30 day separation and I agreed. During the separation, my husband had an affair which he denied at first. It has been 2 months since the separation and we are living under the same roof. We have been seeing a spiritual guidance counselor at our church who knows us also on a personal level. She has committed to help us restore our marriage. She feels that my husband is going through a spiritual rut. The first week of our counseling, the counselor asked my husband if he was asking God to guide his path and his answer was “no”. He stated that he was not going to make a decision to stay in the marriage based on what the Bible states. He wants to make the decision based on what he wants. I am really concerned with his rebellious attitude towards God.
At the suggestion of our counselor, we have started praying together every morning but there are days when my husband says he does not know what to pray for. In week 6 of our counseling sessions my husband told the counselor and his best friend that the last month of our relationship has been very good and even better than the beginning of our marriage. However, I noticed that during this last month, my husband has been emotionally unavailable so I asked him what was wrong. He stated that he has been pretending over the last month. He says that the relationship has been peaceful but the euphoria is gone. He really does not think he wants to be in the marriage anymore. The only reason that he agreed to try to work on the marriage is because he felt he should try to honor the marriage. I truly love my husband and don’t want the marriage to end but I am not sure what to do at this point. I feel that we have lost our rhythm.


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Have you read "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley? If not, buy it today and start reading it immediately. Also buy "His Needs, Her Needs" and read it too.

Have you read the articles on this web site? Read all of them and people on here will help you. You are doing the right things, mostly, but you need to read Harley's method of doing this. Have you told the other woman's husband about the affair? If not, do it today. It's scary at first, but gives you power like you wouldn't believe.

Don't pay any attention to what he is saying. He has no clue, and is rewriting the history of your marriage to make his adultery justified. This is written about in Surviving An Affair. You won't be sorry. Go get the book right now and if you can't find it at your bookstore, order it by clicking on the button on this page called "bookstore." You can read the articles here on the website while you wait for the book to arrive.

Your spiritual counselor sounds like he/she doesn't know what to do to save a marriage that has been damaged by adultery. Dr. Harley does. Read what he advises, and do it.

Best wishes.


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Quote
She feels that my husband is going through a spiritual rut.


Doesnt sound like a spirtual rut to me. Sounds like sex addiction.

Have you read Jim Dobsons "Love Must be Tough" yet?
I think your H has gotten into a deep sex addiction, and now he is making up excuses to justify his sinful behavior. If he says that his M to you is just a "mistake" then, in his mind, he is not breaking his vow. he is just trying to correct a mistake. of course you know better than that. But your H would like to convince you otherwise.

Frankly, until he can commit to the biblical plan for M, your H is headed down a very bad path.

What other support do you have for yourself? Family? Friends?


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I'm sorry honey but your WH is off his rocker!!!! The things he is saying are blasphemy. Does the church where he pastors know about his other life? If not they should. He is not only hurting you and destroying his marriage but he is pretending to be a man of God and is misleading a church congregation. This is wayyyyyyyy out there and needs to be addressed immediately by church elders/deacons/etc.

I don't know what others would do but I think its time for some tough love and including exposure to the church body. He has lost himself (many waywards do). He sounds as if he may have a sex addiction too (unfortunatley pastors are not immune, remember the recent events with Haggert). He needs someone to remind him that God loves him and so do they but that his behavior is unacceptable and carried consequences on both in this life and in then next.

Best of luck to you.

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You must immediately go to the head pastor and/or elders. They will know what to do and how to help your husband.

The Bible tells you that you must do this. Please dont be like your husband! Help lead him back, by being obedient to the Word.

Do it today!


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(((((kmmw)))))

kmmw - I hear your desperation, but I need to ask you a direct question, one Christian to another.

Do you want Scriptural advice or secular advice?

If your answer is secular, I can't help you.

If your answer is obedience to God, then I'll do what I can to assist you.

For now, let's get something straight, though. From what you have written your husband is either extremely young and naive and not a true Christian, or he has taken "liberty in Christ" as an excuse for willful sin against GOD. Either way, the "problem" will not be "fixed" without God. Not for you. Not for your husband. Not for your marriage.

If you believe your husband IS a Christian, then give us some details about the church, the belief structure, doctrinal structure, how your husband fits into the governing structure of the church, etc.

There are many who SAY that they are "Christians," but as James points out....the "proof" is in the doing and the WHY they are doing.

God bless.

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If you are for real, then you may have a narcissist on your hands.
Check out;
http://groups.msn.com/NARCISSISTICPERSONALITYDISORDER/home.htm

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Thanks to all of you for your advice. To answer your question, I am seeking scriptural advice. My husband and I are in our 30’s. He is an ordained Minister who has a Masters in Divinity. 85% of his job in the church is spent on the business side (non-profit and business development) and the remaining 15% is divided between weddings, funerals, counseling and teaching for the Men’s ministry.(which helps to support men to be the fathers and husbands that God wants them to be) and he serves as a teacher for the Boy’s ministry (this group helps boys to transition from young boys to men through the building of character through spiritual discipline). Also, he is occasionally invited to preach at other churches.

We are of the Baptist denomination. We have the traditional Christian values. Our church believes in building strong families. The church believes that there are severe consequences for not being obedient to God. Our church believes that God requires total stewardship of our personal selves and it is our duty to walk the way God would want us to.


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And so??? Is your husband doing this?

The added problem here is that he is in charge of advising other men on how to be husbands!!! Right now, unfortunately, he is a hypocrite.

I am not saying this to be mean! But I am saying that the way to get right is to take him to the senior pastor and/or elders. They know how to deal with this and lead him back.


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kmmw-

I have been in your shoes somewhat. My husband was a second career minister when his attempted EA was exposed and he lost his ministry position.

What I see as a parallel from my experience is that when my WH began full time ministry, he pulled away from his family and also from men who could hold him accountable.I also saw a spirit of rebellion towards God that I had never seen in my Wh before.

I believe the whole process that lead up to his EA was a subtle attack from the enemy to destroy his ministry. First, he was convinced that he didn't need to be accountable to anyone. Then, after D-day, he was convinced that he had messed up too bad to come back to his M or his calling.

I am not saying that there were no other issues that contributed to the climate in our M that made this door easier to open. I just can look back and see how intense the confusion and disconnection was for both of us.

You are in a fight for your husband's heart and mind as well as your M. Continue to seek scriptural advice and enlist the help of prayer warriors who will keep your WH before the Lord. As a friend told me "God will deal with him much more creatively than you ever could."

One thing I have learned in all this is that patience is a skill and one that I never really worked on until now. It's alternately frustrating and empowering to rest in Him.

I found encouragement from Rom.8:26. Just knowing that the Holy Spirit is praying for me and my WH before God helps me hope in Him.

Hang in there.


johnstwin-

"I may not know what the future holds, but I know who holds my future." -Martin Luther

Remarried my FXH 25 years to the day of our first M. God is so good-and sometimes so unexpected!

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The spiritual advice in this case is far easier to give than the recovery advice.

You already know what you have to do here. You have to take him in front of the elders and make them aware of what's going on. That simple.

He needs to repent. End the sin, make amends (to you, the church, and her H if she's married), and take steps to ensure that this sin is in his past.

No rocket science here. The first step is to go to the elders.

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Quote
Thanks to all of you for your advice. To answer your question, I am seeking scriptural advice. My husband and I are in our 30’s. He is an ordained Minister who has a Masters in Divinity. 85% of his job in the church is spent on the business side (non-profit and business development) and the remaining 15% is divided between weddings, funerals, counseling and teaching for the Men’s ministry.(which helps to support men to be the fathers and husbands that God wants them to be) and he serves as a teacher for the Boy’s ministry (this group helps boys to transition from young boys to men through the building of character through spiritual discipline). Also, he is occasionally invited to preach at other churches.

We are of the Baptist denomination. We have the traditional Christian values. Our church believes in building strong families. The church believes that there are severe consequences for not being obedient to God. Our church believes that God requires total stewardship of our personal selves and it is our duty to walk the way God would want us to.

minwife – Thank you for this information, it is very helpful. Before I get into responding to you posts, let ask you something to think about. You stated that you have been married about 2 years and are both in your 30’s. How much do you know about your husband’s “past?” Do you know when he accepted Christ as his Lord and Savior? Were there any previous relationships for either of you that ended in divorce? If so, on what basis did a divorce happen, as there is only ONE valid reason to end a marriage between two believers?


Okay, let’s turn to “heart of the matter.”

Assuming all that you have said about the beliefs of you and your husband, and of the church you attend, your husband is in extremely dire circumstances. Obviously it can, and probably will, have a negative impact on his employment, but his danger goes far beyond that. He is a leader, an elder of the church, and is directly responsible to God for his actions in that role. He is willfully sinning directly against God first, you second, and the church and it’s people third.

The Scripture is quite clear about all of this, and if you need Scripture references I’ll be happy to provide them.

But let’s turn the “most operative” part of Scripture concerning your situation for the moment. You’ll find it in Matthew 18:15-20 and it pertains to discipline for a sinning brother or sister in Christ. The FIRST avenue of approach is “one on one,” where the sin is confronted in love by someone who is aware of it, in this case, for example, it could be you who is doing the intervention, based upon what the Scripture says, not on what you “feel.”

If that doesn’t work, then you involve one or two others who are trusted and firmly grounded in the Scripture, perhaps the senior pastor and/or elder. If their intervention continues to be met with resistance and a refusal to repent, the circle widens. The PURPOSE of this disciplinary intervention is NOT to punish the sinner, it is to hopefully gain repentance and full restoration into the body.

This situation is complicated by the fact that your husband IS already a minister and in a position of leadership. His statements to you and his actions of adultery make him unfit for such a position at this time and you may well have to face the fact that you cannot “look the other way” and allow him to continue in a ministerial and teaching position when his actions, and apparently his beliefs, are heretical to God’s revealed Word. This sort of “wolf” cannot be allowed to function within the body or others WILL wind up getting hurt, perhaps even damaging their own faith, especially so with the youth of the church.

So let’s get into some specifics for a minute or two.


My husband is a Minister and spends a lot of hours at the church. The long hours at work became an issue very early in our marriage. He would come home around 10:00pm every night.

This is, unfortunately, a very common experience. In a “zeal” to be “working for the Lord,” they justify actions that cause problems with other commands of God and excuse it on the basis of “they are doing the Lord’s work.”

Here is the “proper” order of things for prioritizing one’s time.

God first
Spouse second
Children third
Extended family fourth
Fellow believers fifth
Employer sixth
Everyone else a distant seventh.

Now I don’t want to “argue” about personal preferences in the ordering, but without exception, the first two I listed are in that order always. One CANNOT be putting God first if one is disobeying God’s commands and attempting to justify that disobedience because they are “doing the Lord’s work.” An example, God has COMMANDED husbands to love their wives. If there is NOT love in a marriage it IS the fault of the husband. Remember that “love” is first an action verb. “Feelings” of “in love” come after “acts of love” that one chooses to do. That love may not be returned by the wife, but God does not command a wife to love her husband. God has other commands for the wife that are predicated on the husband being a “biblical husband” even if he is not himself a believer. For a Christian husband, the “threshold” of the wife’s responses to God’s commands to wives is predicated on the Christian husband fulfilling his role according to God’s commands to him.

So let’s get very specific. “Thou shalt NOT commit adultery.” Nothing ambiguous there. A person “suitable” for leadership in a church must either be single or the husband of but ONE wife. That is clear Scriptural teaching and NOT subject to interpretation or twisting to “accommodate” a desire to sin and certainly not subject to any “spiritual rut.”

But let’s get to the most serious issue, the Scripture is equally clear that unrepentant adulterers WILL NOT be in heaven. If they will not, then they NEVER were saved. Remember that even Jesus responded to many who claimed to be “Christians,” [color:"red"] “Away from me you evildoers, I NEVER knew you.” (emphasis added) [/color]

All of the other issues, as serious as they are, don’t hold a candle to the peril of his soul in eternal separation from God.

THAT is what must be addressed BEFORE anything else.

I don’t mean to hurt you with what I am about to say, but you need to “get your mind around this” in order for you to approach saving both your husband and your marriage. Your marriage is already over. It ended when he chose adultery. YOU can forgive him. YOU can choose to attempt to rebuild your marriage. But only if, and when, he repents and turns from sin back to God and to you.


This led to constant fighting and even longer hours away from home.

This may have been partly your fault and may have lead to an “atmosphere” where he might be vulnerable to an affair, but it is no “excuse” for a choice to commit adultery.


I found out that on some nights when I thought he was working, he was actually spending time at the strip clubs. My concern is that he is a Minister and that is not setting a good example to the members in the church if they were to find out. He says that he does not care about his reputation and enjoys going to these clubs.

They will find out, so let’s get that out now. The question I would have is whether or not he was going to the strip clubs alone, or did some other member(s) of the church also attend and may be enablers of his activities. His reputation may not be of concern to him (obviously) but it is, or should be, to the leadership and membership of the church.


I asked my husband if he thought that he was assuming the roles of the husband that are listed in the Bible. He said that he was probably not but did not feel any remorse for this.

As a minister this answer is very revealing as to where his heart is. Such is the power of sin and is also indicative of the “hardness of his heart.”


He feels that he has made every effort and that a marriage should not require a whole lot of work. It should be a natural thing and we should intuitively know what the other person’s needs are.

Fogbound justification. Again, as a minister, he should KNOW the fallacy of this since NONE of us a “mind-reader.” He is attempting to shift the blame for his choice to you and make you the “bad girl” in HIS choice to commit adultery. Marriage takes work, plain and simple. At the very least it takes communication of needs so that the other spouse can know what is “needed” or “important” to each spouse.

Let’s just cite one glaring fallacy in his statement; marriage is for LIFE, not for 2 years. Suffice it to say that he has NOT “made every effort,” if for no other reason that 2 years can’t hold “every effort.”


When we were dating, we always enjoyed each other’s company. We had such a strong connection in the beginning. Lately my husband has said that we are not right for each other. He thinks that he made a mistake when he married me. He told me that I was not nurturing the way that he needed me to be. He said that I should just know what he needs when he needs it.

More justification and fog-speak. More attempt to shift blame to you.


Over the last year, he has formed an ally with a good friend of his. She was also having problems in her marriage and they started having lunch together twice a week. Then, they started exchanging suggestive text messages. He swears that nothing else happened.

And if you believe nothing happened, given the other things you know did happen, then “swampland” turns into prime real estate with no need for improvement.


About 2 months ago, my husband told me that he wanted a 30 day separation and I agreed. During the separation, my husband had an affair which he denied at first.

Separation is just a means many a WS uses to be able to “do whatever they want to do” (read: have an affair without someone constantly looking over their shoulder).


It has been 2 months since the separation and we are living under the same roof.

So why did you let him move back in without repentance and without commitments?


We have been seeing a spiritual guidance counselor at our church who knows us also on a personal level. She has committed to help us restore our marriage. She feels that my husband is going through a spiritual rut.

Forgive me for saying this, but I disagree with this counselor. Your husband is in no “spriritual rut,” whatever that might mean or how it might try to attempt to justify outright sin. Your husband is in direct disobedience of God and that’s a CHOICE, not a “rut.” This counselor is playing in the arena of “feelings,” and feelings are NO justification for willful sin, nor do “feelings” excuse or justify adultery. Either we stand on the Scripture as the revealed Word of God, or we don’t. I would personally question the competency of this counselor and would strongly recommend you seek out a counselor who is trained in Nouthetic Counseling. I can give you a link to the National Association of Nouthetic Counselors if you’d like it, and you can search the counselor database for counselors in or near your area.


The first week of our counseling, the counselor asked my husband if he was asking God to guide his path and his answer was “no”. He stated that he was not going to make a decision to stay in the marriage based on what the Bible states. He wants to make the decision based on what he wants. I am really concerned with his rebellious attitude towards God.

You are right to be concerned about this. For a Christian, let alone a Minister, to say that he is NOT going to do what God says is not just “troubling,” it strongly indicates that the person was never truly “born again.”


At the suggestion of our counselor, we have started praying together every morning but there are days when my husband says he does not know what to pray for. In week 6 of our counseling sessions my husband told the counselor and his best friend that the last month of our relationship has been very good and even better than the beginning of our marriage. However, I noticed that during this last month, my husband has been emotionally unavailable so I asked him what was wrong. He stated that he has been pretending over the last month. He says that the relationship has been peaceful but the euphoria is gone. He really does not think he wants to be in the marriage anymore. The only reason that he agreed to try to work on the marriage is because he felt he should try to honor the marriage. I truly love my husband and don’t want the marriage to end but I am not sure what to do at this point. I feel that we have lost our rhythm.

He is still in his affair. It’s probably just gone “underground” for now.

If you would like, I can email you a pamphlet that our MC gave us when we began counseling. It’s called “What Do You Do When Your Marriage Goes Sour.” If you want it, send me an email at mbforeverhers@yahoo.com and I’ll email it to you. Just be sure to tell me who you are on this system so I’ll recognize you.


God bless.

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minwife - just thinking of you and hoping you are doing okay.

This season SHOULD be impacting your husband greatly.

Do you have an update you'd care to share?

God bless.

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Here is a quick update of what's going on. The spirtual counselor spoke with the Pastor of the church last week. I'm not sure if he has spoken to my husband yet because of the holidays (the church is closed except for Sundays until January). However, the other day we were at an event and I was waiting for my husband while he was on the phone. He accussed me of being in his personal space and in his conversation. So, we talked about it and he was very defensive. When we got home, he decided that he wanted to leave. I asked him to at least stay until the morning. So, he is planning on leaving again. But this time, I am not asking him to stay. I am letting him leave. This is probably the best Christmas gift that I could ever give him. So, I am asking God to direct my steps and help deliver me from this situation. The intersting thing is that my family is hurt because of what has happened but they really believe that my husband has some mental and spiritual issues that are causing him to be like this. They really don't feel that he is in his right mind. My husband mentioned going to a convent for a few days this week to reflect but not necessarily on what he should do about the marriage. He sees this as a separate issue. But, I wish him well and will continue to pray for him because I love him and care about his well being. I know that God has something very special planned for my life and when God leads me in another direction, I know that I can say that I did everything that I could to save my marriage. Merry Christmas to all!!!!!


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"HE see this as a separate issue". Come on, do you really believe he believes this? He knows that sinning against God cannot be compartmentalized. I am going to a convent to work on me to reestablish my relationship with God, to find out why I have been separated from him, to see what's wrong with me, to find answers...etc.... BUT don't get your hopes up because I have no desire to do what GOD commands regarding our M.

Do you see how stupid and out there this comment is? You WH has fallen away and is separated from God by his SIN. No, not just his sexual sin and other sins but the the same sin that fell Lucifer.... the sin of ME!! I want what I want and I want it now, not later, I I I I I I I I I I I I....Everytime we are all about I or ME we are never about God. That's your WH's problem and he doesn't want to hear it because he already knows God's answers he just doesn't like, trust or believe that they will lead to HIS happiness.

God bless you and remain strong. I think you are doing the right thing be letting him go. Send him off on a good note and move on with your life letting God deal with him. As tough as it is this season please try and have a Merry Christmas

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minwife-

You have taken a courageous step and I just want to encourage you: You can do this.

I was in the same place as you not that long ago and I cannot begin to tell you how God has guided my steps. My children and I have been so blessed by our growing relationship with each other-I can't believe how much of a blessing it has been.

It isn't easy. But, God will give you moments where you will catch a glimpse of His guidance, His involvement in all your lives, and His great love and mercy for you.

Merry Christmas to you. Feel free to email me if you need to-my email is in my profile.

In His gracious Grip-


johnstwin-

"I may not know what the future holds, but I know who holds my future." -Martin Luther

Remarried my FXH 25 years to the day of our first M. God is so good-and sometimes so unexpected!

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My husband returned from his spiritual retreat on Wednesday night. I asked him how everything went. He stated that he asked God to reveal to him what he should do about the marriage. The last time he asked God, the answer was for him to work on his marriage. This time he said that he wasn't sure what God's answer was but he was going to do what he wanted to do anyway. He felt that God did not bring this marriage together since it was not working out. He also stated that the marriage was the reason why he lost his way spiritually. I asked him to continue to pray and wait on God to turn the situation around. He said that he did not want to wait because he doesn't believe that it can work. He said that he was afraid to wait on God but he was not sure why. I have gotten to the point where I am begging him to turn this over to God. I told him that if God revealed to him that he should walk away from his wife, then I will support him 110%.

My husband and I are scheduled to meet with the Pastor of our church on Tuesday. I am not sure what the outcome of this will be. The Pastor is very hurt by this situation and I am not sure what direction he will take us. I told the Pastor that I would do whatever he thought was best for the situation.

Please pray for our situation.

Happy New Year!


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This guy is speaking Blashpemy!!! I would tell the pastor what he has said and is saying.

NO MORE BEGGING!!!! IT WILL NOT WORK!!! STOP IT!!!!

HE is wrong, he is living in sin, he is changing God's word, making a mockery of a divine institution and his vows to God. Doing all of this as a minister is bordering of mocking God and will be terrible dealt with, wait and watch.

DO NOT Support anything he does that conflicts with God's word. YOU are allowing yourself to be dragged down to where he is.....You said he said "I am going to do what I want anyway..." Well, this God like attitude is what got Lucifer a one way ticket to ****** and exclusion from heaven and separates man from God now and today...

BE Strong, call on your faith, your church, friends but do not encourage or support anything this man says or does at this point. He is so spiritually lost I am worried about his soul.

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 846
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 846
Minwife,

How do you know he actually went on a retreat? He was away from you for a weekend, does not care what God's will is - only his own, it sounds like he was away with OW sealing the last nail in your marriage coffin.

Hang tight to your faith in God, you will need every ounce of it. This experience will change you but pay attention along the way. This is not just about God and your husband, it is about God and you as well. There are changes and growth ahead for you - pay attention to the signs.

I wish you all the best. I am so saddened by people who present themselves as religous leaders and do this stuff. I understand they are only human, but after only 2 years of marriage? Come on. They should have a little more will power in that line of work. What is wrong with the world today? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Happy New Year MW and be strong.


Me/BS 48
Married 16 yrs/together 23; 1 child
Dday 4/05; WH "needed space" and left 5/05
WH Filed D papers 6/05 - Divorce final 12/05
WH moved in with OW 11/05; moved out OW 1/06
12/06 His 3rd and strongest attempt at reconcilliation (I believe OW still in picture)
2/07 Affair over, begging me to take him back - it's too late.
WH has tried numerous times to reconcile.
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