Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our discussion forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 68
B
BobJan Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
B
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 68
How do I know when do call it quits or if I should continue? My relationship with my fiancée My only issue is a Lack Of Intimacy (Sex). We have been together for 14 months and now live together for the last 6 months. As you can tell, this is my number one need.

In marriage, I was lucky to have sex 1 to 2 times per month. I am so afraid that this could happen to me again! I am not willing to go there again!

Here are the basic facts:

We are both late thirties. I am recently divorced after 17 years. My XW had an affair and it devastated me. I have always been faithful. The XW told me that “She was going to be 40 soon and now was the time for her to live life”. I found out about the affair a few weeks later. This all came as a huge shock! The XW was dumped by her new man and is raising our 4 kids 12 hours away from me. This was a long and nasty divorce. I have a great relationship with my kids and may move there soon. I talk to them almost daily.

My fiancé had a sad upbringing. She has been married 4 times and was in two other serious relationships. Recently, she has been single for at least 6 years. She has had lots of drama in her life plus sexual encounters. Me, hardly any drama other than the D. She was into drugs (crack) years ago and was able to quit. She has two girls living with us.

I found her fun, exciting and was very attracted to her. She was aggressively wanting to be with me. Sex was amazing and she initiated it frequently. I know this looks like I was pulled in by this but there were other qualities I liked too.

Now the problem surfaced about 5 months ago. She withheld sex for a month and I started to hear comments like “All You Guys Want is Sex”, “When is enough ever enough?”. I could on and on with these comments.

She was in the Swinging lifestyle for a 6 months or so prior to us getting together. She was known as a ‘Unicorn” (Single Female willing to play and bi-curious). She says she does not want to go back to that. She said she had one encounter with a couple. I do not believe that she had no other encounters but it is not a huge issue for me since that was her past. I am concerned due to her actions today. I asked her to take me to a club just to see what it looked like, not to have sex. She flatly said NO. I wonder if she is hiding issues, afraid I will find out more details.

This was never part of my lifestyle. I did find it shocking at first. I do wonder if this and her past has damaged her beyond any hope. I feel she may view sex as a Play thing and a means of control. She exhibits this behavior with her actions.

We are going to counseling and the counselor has convinced her to ‘Schedule Intimacy” 1/week to keep my emotions down and to keep Intimacy in our relationship. It took months to get her to agree to this.

She used to enjoy sex extremely so! I have tried to be radically honest with her and I tell her how I feel when I am rejected. She usually shows a type of passive aggressive behavior by not talking and withdrawing. I see this as control too.

I have had at least 4 Angry Outburst which have not helped matters any. I have not had any in over a month. The Outburst are not screaming, usually they involved me telling her ‘I am sick of this and sleeping in another room’. Usually a ‘No Comment’ from her would be her response. I have told her a few times that maybe we are not compatible and she should find someone she is attracted too.

I told her that after she finished this semester (May), that we need to decide where to go from here. My view is to call it quits if this issue has not improved. Of course, she never answered me.

On the plus side, she is going to counseling and is very affectionate with me. We get along great together. The scheduled Intimacy is going well. She seems to enjoy herself. I need sex more than 1 / week. I asked her if she would be willing to add another Intimacy time. She said ‘She was not there yet!”. Damn!! My Taker was pissed!

My two friends who live out of town and did not know her say I was played. They base this on the fact that I pay all expenses for her and two girls and get little in return. She
does not work but goes to school full-time.

Am I abnormal for wanting sex 2/3 times per week and with a compatible mate. A women who used to desire me! A women who initiated Intimacy frequently. This is not the same women!

I have practiced Radical Honesty and told her EXACTLY how I feel. She says that I am perfect in most ways and I do no Love Busters except for the Angry Outburst and telling her to Leave. She says she feels pressured to perform and insecure. Well, what about the first 3 months of No Sex. I heard everything from “House is too loud”, “Jupiter is not aligned with Venus”, etc… lol

I suspect that she needs to be in control of Intimacy based on past observation and other relationships more than she is willing to compromise to meet my needs.

Was I played? Should I continue? Your thoughts are appreciated.

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,164
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,164
Yes, you were played. She didn't time it too well; normally they don't pull the bait and switch until AFTER the ring is on their finger!

Given your description of her past, I think this girl has lots of issues. If she was a crack user and married 4 times...there may be more issues inside her that you don't know about. She may have been sexually abused as a child, which can sabotage her sexual relationships as an adult.

She may be missing the swinging lifestyle but doesn't want to go back to it or expose you to it for whatever reason...or she may be doing things behind your back.

Honestly, I think you need to get as far away from this woman as you can. Don't wait for May.

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 451
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 451
Hi BobJan,

Welcome to MB.

I am not going to say your relationship is hopeless but there are so many red flags flying that I would urge you to take some time,a long time,to really consider marrying this woman.

Many times when we are infatuated with someone we fail to really see the big picture in the beginning.Love isn't everything and you have a lot to contend with right now,and you aren't even married yet ( which will not solve any problems,only magnify them).

Reread the post you wrote and try to look at it as if you were reading your buddies post.How would you perceive it? What would you look for?



Quote
My only issue is a Lack Of Intimacy (Sex).


As you stated but based on what you said,I don't think so.Do you think this relationship is a rebound one?

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 68
B
BobJan Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
B
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 68
Yes, this relationship may have been a rebound. I did briefly date two other women before her. I waited almost a year before asking her to move in. We were to be married months after she moved in but did not. The only reason we waited is because she wanted a wedding with a dress, reception, etc.. I did not. I thought that was strange after being married so many times.

I should of waited longer but how does anyone really know. We spent months together and hours on the phone talking. I thought she loved me and her past issues were behind her.

I think she has controlled her past relationships with sex. She is extremely good looking and been with guys who were not the best. Maybe she was not either! I have spent a long time analyzing her and her past relationships. I think I projected that she made bad choices and left it at that.

She treated me like a king and I treated her like a queen. My last relationship was 20+ years so I was unprepared for dating. Actually, looking at the statistics I believe we all are.

She can not understand that I want someone to desire me. I honestly think she is doing her best based on her past and emotional self.

At least we are not married.

Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 14,283
K
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 14,283
Quote
I suspect that she needs to be in control of Intimacy based on past observation and other relationships more than she is willing to compromise to meet my needs.

I suspect you are right.

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 556
R
RMW Offline
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 556
from your post I just read, it doesn't sound like you two do a very good job on the poja. there might be more to you not geting sex than you think. sometimes men have a tendency to blame women for everything without truly looking at themselves and things they might be doing to kill any desire for a woman. I've been through it!!!!!!!!!! I can remember a time when my x used to get mad at me because I wanted sex so much, but damn he sure wasnt happy when he finally did enough things that I would rather puke than have sex with him. And it doens't necessarliy do any good to tell the man what the problems are either. they'll read into it from their own prespective. think before you point any fingers, even it she isn't presently willing to point one at you. for everyone you point out - you have three pointing straight back. I'm sick and tired of men thinking the reason they don't get sex is because of control -- it can be as simple as lack of desire due to circumstances even over a long period. when I lost my desire for sex with my husband I'M THE ONE THAT LOOKED FOR COUNSELING TO TRY AND FIX THE PROBLEM -- NOT HIM!!!! I WANTED TO HAVE IT BACK!!! But there was enough S***T GOING ON THAT IT JUST WOULDN'T COME BACK. SEX IS MY NUMBER TWO NEED, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT CAN'T BE KILLED BY THINGS GOING ON AROUND!!

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3
D
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
D
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3
I hope I’m not too late to this discussion. BTW, if you’re still reading BobJan I’d love an update – probably all your commenters would.

I too think you’re being played, though not necessarily entirely consciously. Probably consciously in part.

I too think it’s probably crucial to delay a wedding. I probably hold out quite a bit more hope for your relationship with this woman than most (or all) of the other commenters though. But only conditionally. That is, only if she becomes willing to be far more truthful with you – and possibly with herself as well.

BTW, I can understand why this woman is so attractive to you. I can understand your being attracted to her needs as well as to her looks and her former sexual givingness.

When I agree that she is playing you, I agree with the others that she has decided to test whether you will put up with less sex than she was giving you, and also how much control you will let her exercise through sex withholding without becoming too unpleasant to her (or leaving her).

I agree with the others that you establish compromises you can both live with around the sex and sex manipulation issue BEFORE marriage.

However, I feel I need to introduce this intuitive insight I’ve got. I suppose it’s really a question to you, since you haven’t supplied enough information for me to really be all that sure about what I’m about to suggest, but you have supplied a lot of hints.

The paradox here is that this woman seems to have been very sexual with you and in an easy and comfortable way, and seems to have a history that suggests a pretty high sex drive or at least comfort level with lots of sex, relative to other women. Higher side of the spectrum, in other words. (Oh and I think your suspicion that she is underplaying the amount of sex involved in her swinging phase is almost certainly true, and in fact radically so. The relevance to that isn't that she really wants to keep doing that or something like only not with you (though that's a possibility you have to consider) but that her sex drive is a lot higher than she's NOW letting on.

But here’s the thing. Are you the nice guy she feels she needs for a stable life, but not the sort of “bad boy” or “dangerous stud” or whatever shade of that, that she has usually been most sexually attracted to? I’m not saying she’s not at all sexually attracted to you – there was your early history with her, and only you can determine if it could have been ALL an act. Maybe she’s mostly trying to gage how you’ll react IF she no longer wants sex all the frequently from YOU in the future? (Which is an affairs red light for sure.)

I rather strongly suspect a good deal of this is going on. So why not run and fast? Well, that may be what you need to do. But perhaps you can try to talk with her about all this, and about her willingness to channel ALL her sexuality through and to you. Or virtually all (some limited flirting to reassure of continuing broad attractiveness and fantasy excepted). You should let her know that you will almost certainly divorce her if she does cheat on you and that you believe in the good doctor’s maxims about a good deal of vigilance about cheating on both partner’s parts, and full openness and honest. In fact you should ask her to read all of his articles on this site and talk about it all with you. Ask as in really essential nicely demand, if you two are going to enter into marriage together as you still hope.

And no, I wouldn’t think that sex once or even twice a week is enough at your two ages and stage of relationship, with your two histories. She didn’t attract you on that basis and she can’t expect to keep you on it either – particularly if she’s really withdrawing not due to lack of sexual appetite but rather appetite focused on YOU. That has to change – and Dr. Harley has made me think it CAN change – if she wants it to enough. After all, she knows where sexual relationships focused on the wrong sort of man have lead her. She needs to try very hard to refocus her lust in a more broadly loving direction – to you, the sort of man that can give her stable love. Of course you need to be doing that – making those love deposits, and lots of them.

You need to disabuse her of the notion that EITHER fulfilling her sexual appetite with outside liasons in the future, or with large amounts of fantasy independent of you (written porn or whatever), OR withdrawing largely from her sexual side since she's chosen to no longer marry or be with a 'thrilling but destructive bad boy' -- are going to work very long with you. (They also won't work very long with her either, unless she finds a stable and affectionate man who'll put up with a cuckold relationship -- which is pretty rare for very long.)

My take anyway. Your thoughts?

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 68
B
BobJan Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
B
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 68
My fiancé and I have been going to counseling. In fact, we went yesterday. We also have spent hours and hours talking. Not just about the lack of affection but how we got here in the first place, my LB and hers.

At first, I believe it was the inital move to my city and house that caused her to go into depression. Her kids were not adjusting well. She was unable to tell me what was wrong and we had a difficult time communicating. She would tell me things like "All You men want is sex" and I would would get so pissed off that I could not see straight. We were on a rollercoaster. She is currently on meds and is doing well.

She and her two kids are 100% dependant on me. So I think this dependency has been a hard thing for her. It may add to her walls or withdrawl, especially since I have withdrawn from her. A vicious rollercoaster...

I believe she has a lower tolerance for my actions (Love Busters) than her previous relationships. Her previous relationships were abusive and WAY OUT there compared to mine. She was abused and has put up walls to protect herself. I think she views my LB on the same level as LB from her past relationships or maybe the fact that I could turn into someone similar to these guys.

She has stayed with me instead of leaving so that is a good sign. She still has her trailer so she could move back at anytime. I have told her to leave on 4 occasions but recanted the next day. She has agreed to the scheduled intimacy and also been affectionate for the most part.

She says that she wants Intimacy back to the way it used to be. I asked for a time-line recently and she said maybe in a few weeks we could return to a more normal intimacy relationshipalong with the scheduled intimacy.

She stated that she needed me to back off for longer than I have. So far I have backed off and we seem to be getting along much better. She has not seen security in the past and she has not seen much from me since we got into this situation. So this is an un met need of hers. I did withdraw from her. In my mind. I figured she was gone so I did this to protect myself.

The counselor says we are making good progress and beginning to work through these issues. The counselor seemed to focus mostly on her yesterday but in the previous months has focused on me. The counselor saw me as unstalble (yes I was, I was pissed) and wanted to smooth out the immediate issue.

I have quit my Love Busters for quite awhile now and backed off. We are talking a lot and working things out. It seems promising.

I have asked her to read my post, books, etc… I sent her ’10 question to address before marriage’, purchased ‘Love Busters’, ‘His Needs Her Needs’. She has read a few things but not with enthusiasm. She feels advice from others is tainted and I should stick with our counselor who supports Dr. Harley’s methods plus I should not be posting our situation on the Internet. Our counselor stated that it is okay to post if POJA.

I will quit posting if she is not okay with this (POJA) and we will continue on with counseling.

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3
D
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
D
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3
Personally I think it is completely wrong for her or your marriage counselor to say it's not ok to discuss your situation ANNONYMOUSLY on the internet, at a site that is dedicated to trying to repair marriages or relationships that might lead there, and with a community of commentators of like mind. Trolls are shunned around here.

Is SHE not discussing your situation with any of her friends and family, and then in hardly an anonymous fashion? How is this any different? Men tend to have far fewer friends they feel comfortable about talking about this sort of thing with. As well we tend to like the anonymity. Like all sex differences, there are men who differ on that and we fall all along the spectrum on that, but it's the tendency.

It's not like this is a chat room for unhappy marrieds or engageds trying to pick up others to have an liason with. Or a sex talk site. Those things would be entirely different. That's not what this is. The internet is as varied as the "real world" -- though it does have it's own constraints on modes of communication, offset by the ease of communicating with a vast variety of people quickly.

So if she wants to credible promise to never talk about your relationship problems with anyone else at all, other than your therapist and you agree to do the same including the internet, well at least that would be fair and equal. Though maybe not so wise. And personally I'd have a VERY hard time believing anyone who made such a promise, and yes here especially most women. Ain't gonna keep it. Not really. (Almost any man who promises not to ever look at another woman 'with lust in his heart' is making a promise he can't keep. Almost any woman who promises to not talk about her reltationship with anyone at all other than her husband and therapist is being similarly not credible. Seems to me.)

Having said that, some other thoughts.

You gave more info this time on your withdrawing in reaction to her, and further hints about you LB.

Here’s the thing. You DO need to make her secure. But NOT secure that she can walk all over you in either i) channeling her sexuality and need for romantic affection elsewhere, now or in the future, or 2) go too far in using sex as a manipulative tool or weapon (unfortunately American culture generally, particularly in the last 20 years or so, is pretty supportive of the later. I’ve traveled extensively in Europe (and lived there for a year) and E Asia and Latin America so have a different perspective. But here’s where we live.)

The idea that you need to back off on pressuring her, particularly threatening to make her leave if she doesn’t “put out” more, makes a lot of sense. It’s certainly consonant with what Dr. Harley recommends in cases like this.

But it need to be with a sense that she needs to willing to focus on you for her romantic and sexual and most of her companionate needs (certainly not all of the later, we all need friends).

All in all it’s looking more encouraging for you two to me. I just don’t like the idea that you shouldn’t go outside your therapist for advice. Dr. Harley in almost certainly vastly more respected in the field than your local therapist and this is a community that thinks it is, and in fact largely is, in synch with his ideas and approach.

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3
D
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
D
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3
You haven’t said much of anything about what the financial situation is, though there are hints. Since she is in her late 30’s with two girls not by you and completely dependent on you though, (and ‘still has her trailer to go back to’) it does paint a picture.

You have to be aware that there is a LARGE potential here, just structurally (independent of her own personality and conscious motivations) for her to want pretty desperately at this stage in her life, to get a financially sure and dependable man to marry her now before her attractiveness (on the marriage market – yes, there are those realities) declines RAPIDLY in her 40’s. She may wish such a liason with you while still not being all that sexually or emotionally attracted to you. There may be elements of acting or kidding herself and you, or there may have been earlier on before you two became engaged, and as you say in your last post, she became depressed after leaving her former community and moving in with you six months ago.

There’s a large potential for her being WORSE (on sexual and emotional intimacy) after she becomes more legally secure after succeeding in marrying you. And divorce is going to cost you and not her, and could cost you a lot. (Well it will cost her to be on her own again without you supporting her but she’ll get a property settlement, generally half of any net increase in your joint wealth after you get married (including probably the value of YOUR house).

As all or virtually all the other posters here have said, you SHOULD NOT rush into marrying her. Her PRESSURE there is FAR more suspicious than your pressure on her to continue to demonstrate her desire for sexual intimacy with YOU now, as you contemplate marriage. You should MOVE BACK YOUR MARRIAGE DATE now. At least another six months. I’m serious. Frankly, you’re a fool if you don’t.

Whatever you do, you should not under any circumstances adopt her two children. You can act as their father, gradually and consenually, if that’s what everyone wants, but you shouldn’t legally adopt them – whether or not she’s getting child support from their bio dad. You’re already paying it for 4 kids to your cheating ex spouse – you don’t need two more, and you shouldn’t give her that leverage in contemplation of divorce either.

This things matter A LOT as soon as any marriage starts going sour, as most do at some point. Even when they come back, the leverage is a factor. That women tend to have so much leverage in contemplation of divorce, at least when married to strong and reliably earning men, no doubt has a LOT to do with why in the US, a lot more than 2 times as many women as men initiate divorce these days. If you never want to get divorced again, it is a good thing to reduce this leverage that hovers above including in women’s advising friends’ minds, when rough patches develop.

None of which diminishes the importance of meeting the emotional needs (at least pretty darn well, perfection eludes most of us) of your wife or prospective wife. Can’t have a happy marriage without that, for sure.

(As for her not wanting you to see a swingers club – well, I can tell you, you’d be shocked. Never been, but friends have. While there are onlookers, male and female though often mostly male, most women who go more than once or twice (she said six months) have multiple male and often female partners per night, maybe as many as seven or eight (occasionally more), while most men have a few. Women who go back often go through an highly orgiastic period. She knows that if you saw it yourself, there’d be a real risk that you’d either a) be scared away from her, or b) you’d be even more demanding of large amounts of sex from her. Probably she’s more worried about b.)

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,346
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,346
The two of you need to have a good long talk. The question should not be "Is he at fault for wanting sex all the time, or is she at fault for not more sex with him?" It does not matter if one thinks that the fault lies with one or the other, and that the relationship would be perfect only if that party changed. What matters is whether the two of you can resolve this problem. The question should be: "Can we resolve our differences in the sex drive so we can be happy in our marriage?" If the two of you truly cannot work this out, it is better know now that things just were not meant to be, and you'll have to say to each other "I am sorry; the problem is with me, not you--I'll see you around."


Me: 50. W: 50. Happily married since 1993. 3 kids.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 31
F
Member
Offline
Member
F
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 31
sorry bro, sounds like the 1/week intimacy is something like paying the rent to her. dont stand for it now, or youll fall for it forever

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1
A
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
A
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1
Quote
Now the problem surfaced about 5 months ago. She withheld sex for a month and I started to hear comments like “All You Guys Want is Sex”, “When is enough ever enough?”. I could on and on with these comments.


Am I abnormal for wanting sex 2/3 times per week and with a compatible mate. A women who used to desire me! A women who initiated Intimacy frequently. This is not the same women!

Was I played? Should I continue? Your thoughts are appreciated.

If you are in control of all the finances and everything, then you need to make her just step up to the plate or get the f*C^ out. I have had a few relation ships that start out hot and heavy, and when my partner would try to cool things down.
LOVE is a strong word, but my demand for sexual gratification is much stronger than my patients. I have no problem being "faithful" I have always been a one woman man.
You need to really just give her a reality check. All you are asking for is a damn release! It dont take her more than 15 minutes to just lay there and let you do your thing. Explain to her that 15 minutes saves her having to be homeless with her 2 children.
This may sound cold, but I don't like false persona if I fall in love with some one and they change. Then they are not entilted to the same love any more.

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 725
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 725
>All you are asking for is a damn release! It dont take her more than 15 minutes to just lay there and let you do your thing.

Aaron,

Why not just take a body from a fresh grave then? If you browbeat a woman into having sex with you or convince her it's her "duty" when she's not feeling attracted to you it will only make her hate you and think of sex with you as a chore. She has lost all passion and feelings of attraction for him. If she has sex with him now without some major changes taking place, it'll make her skin crawl. I don't think that's what he wants. Most people want to be wanted.

BobJan,

in every relationship there comes a time when it's no longer new and exciting. Sometimes women mistake this phase for "falling out of love," although sometimes it does coincide with falling out of love when we're talking about a low-level commitment (you are not yet married). She doesn't want sex with you because she's not feeling attracted to or passionate toward you. She's very likely to still have strong sexual feelings toward other men. It's possible she could have met someone else, but not necessarily.

Can she get those passionate feelings back again? Sure, but you have to start acting like you did when you first met. Make sure you're meeting her emotional needs, especially for nonsexual affection and conversation. The things you do naturally in the beginning take some deliberate thought when the relationship is no longer new. And of course if she's angry with you about something that could also be getting in the way.

If she's not cheating and she's not mad at you, there are some things she can do to get herself in the mood. It's best to schedule sex. Women are turned on by the anticipation of it, and doing things to get ready like shaving her legs, putting on sexy underwear, etc. She could read a romance novel or take a long bath beforehand, whatever helps her mentally prepare. And of course make sure that when you do start having sex again that she's having just as much fun as you.

Of course, this is all assuming that your relationship has a foundation that goes deeper than the initial feelings of falling in love. That's a question only you can answer, I think.

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,186
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,186
At least this came up BEFORE you walked the Aisle together.
She's tried crack and lesbianism. Apparently something made her dissatisfied with life without those things in it before she tried them.
Fast forward: you two get married. What's to say she won't get dissatisfied with something again and try other things?
I believe it's PAST TIME for you to slide out of this Engagement, count yourself extremely lucky and don't walk from this relationship. but run. It's amazing how living together is very similar to marriage. And your fiancee couldn't take the heat now, she sure is not going to be able to take it any better just because you placed a ring on her finger!
Run, dude. And don't look back.
JMHO
S-TDL


Alzbeta Madragana.. I'm back... Real name is 'Harold'; however, I use the AMD one for online identity... I guess I popped back in to MB just to see what's happened in the 5 plus years I've been away..........................
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,703
N
Member
Offline
Member
N
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,703
Now the problem surfaced about 5 months ago. She withheld sex for a month and I started to hear comments like “All You Guys Want is Sex”, “When is enough ever enough?”. I could on and on with these comments.

She was in the Swinging lifestyle for a 6 months or so prior to us getting together. She was known as a ‘Unicorn” (Single Female willing to play and bi-curious). She says she does not want to go back to that. She said she had one encounter with a couple. I do not believe that she had no other encounters but it is not a huge issue for me since that was her past. I am concerned due to her actions today. I asked her to take me to a club just to see what it looked like, not to have sex. She flatly said NO. I wonder if she is hiding issues, afraid I will find out more details.

_______________________________

lots of stuff going on.
this is what i am getting....
she has issues w/ men. the comment about All guys want is sex...that wasn't directed at you.
that came from years of feeling used and discarded....by men.

the fact that she doesn't want to take you to one of those clubs.....i think it has more to do w/ the fact that she is afraid of loosing you to 1 of those clubs than she is trying to hide something from you.
she is afraid you will like it and you will become like all the other men in her life.....always out looking for someone/thing new to make sex exciting.
she wants to get away from all that.
she tried it...she
realized it left her feeling empty and used...she wants something more from a relationship....but she is scared......and she doesn't know if it is possible.

and... i agree w/ you...she has control issues.....everybody wants to maintain some control in their lives and sex has proven to work for her to a degree. and i am sure she is afraid to give that up and be vulnerable to you. this is understandable but not healthy for her or the relationship.

hold off on the wedding. you 2 have a lot to work thru.
how is counseling going?


Last edited by nia17; 08/25/07 08:47 AM.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 26
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 26
I am not sure I'm the best person to give advice (I am new here) but... I'll give my two cents.

Sex seem to be your number one emotional need, so is there at least a number two for you, and for her? If not, and if you are in the red from the start, do you think you can come up with other ways to keep putting money into your love bank?

Again, I am no expert here, but I almost get the impression that there is not much you can both put into your love bank in a consistent manner. It seems like there is more to take out than to put in perhaps.

I also feel (but that is just my opinion) that sex is important, yes, but not sufficient to base a future together if it is the ONLY emotional need that can be fulfilled by the other person. And in this case, even that seems too wobbly as it is now.
Similarly, if her only need is financial support, does this mean that if she gets a good job, then you are not needed anymore to make her happy?

So, I'm not sure it sounds too too promising... and perhaps you might want to ask yourself why you like this person so much? Not that it is wrong to like her. But what can she really fulfill? And could you fulfill enough for her?

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 68
B
BobJan Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
B
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 68
We are doing a lot better since March. The counseling has helped, but more than that I have helped myself.

I finally realized that it was ME who was ACCEPTING this situation. I needed to grow a set of [email]ba@ls[/email] and take control of me. And I would be okay with whatever happened. Resentment would build and I would talk it to death. I quit the talking about sex so much. I do occasionally talk, but I do not get angry anymore.

I realized that Sex for me was not about release or pleasure but it was a form of Intimacy and affirmation. I longed to be desired by her. To have her call me in the middle of the day and ask me to come home. That was my hot spot…to be desired. I guess this stems from my past 19 year sexless marriage and my childhood.

I began to look at my longing for Intimacy and why I felt this way.

My sexual needs were met in covert and unhealthy ways. For example, my biggest pleasure is for me to pleasure her without me climaxing and going on for an hour or more just to watch her reactions. I would also expect her to initiate more frequently and I would use Nice-Guy methods in convert ways to get sex from her. You know, be a gentlemen, financial boss, security giver, problem-solver, enabler, etc… and in my mind “I did these things and you should now show your love to me”.

This was hurting me not her. It made me dishonest. It made me dependant on someone else and I am not even married to this person. It made me focus way too much on this issue…obsessive. I wanted to improve myself.

After much reflection I came up with my truths:

- It does not matter if we split. If we can NOT work out the issues then I will call it off with no regrets. I have done this on a few occasions and decided after discussion that we would keep trying.

- I am a good looking guy. Women are attracted to me or at least that is how I feel! I make a good living, live in an okay house and I am a great catch.

- I can go out at anytime and get sex but probably not intimacy. Intimacy is what I think is more important. I do love her but I deserved more.

- I quit trying to be the problem solver. She needed to stand on her own two feet. I limited those ‘pity-talk” conversations to a minimum and quit trying to come up with her solutions. I am trying not to enable her so much. I am trying to get her to develop girl friendships and not use me for so much of the girl-talk.

- I had a tendency to focus on my SO way too much. I upped my workouts. Now I am a full fledged bodybuilder. Not looking to compete but a way to feel good and get-a-life for myself! I needed to focus on me. I am also looking at reconnection with lost guy friends from years ago and will take some trips soon to reconnect. Bow hunting will be a priority activity for me this season.

- She has to work on her issues. I can go to counseling and assist, but her issues are hers to deal with. One issue of hers that came up the other day is “All Men want from me is sex”. This is her issue and I will not apologize for wanting to be Intimate with her. I will NOT! I will lovingly approach her and not demand.

- I set boundaries… (1) I pulled in the purse strings… now she is looking for a job. I quit paying for her kids extracurricular activities. One is 18 and needs to be more responsible. She really ****** about this and I help firm. (2) I quit solving her problems. I believe she is strong and will do quite well. (3) I quit doing all the housework. She has taken on a more equal load. (4) I am doing things for myself with no apologies. So liberating.

- On Sex/Intimacy… I go to her when I desire her. I accept rejection with an attitude of ‘Your Loss’. Well, I am still working on this and will probably continue to work on it! Most of times she accepts me. She is not as passionate as I would like. I do not worry so much about pleasing her. She always has an O which I think she should be more responsible for. I have requested that she initiate more. I will reject her ‘nicely’ if she is not participating in sex. I don’t want her to hold any resentment. This would not be good for either of us.

- I do wonder if I should find someone more sexually compatible. What keeps me around is the memory of how she used to be.

- I have opportunities with other women but have decided not to proceed. Maybe I give off some sort of thing now but I do get a lot of opportunities and looks.

- I am recovering from my Nice-Guy ways. I am becoming more of a man instead of a roommate/friend.


Today we have sex 1 – 2 times per week and it is getting better. She is not as passionate as I would like but improving. I will take all of that into account when I make my decision to stay or go. Counseling is going well.

Regardless if we stay together or not, I will be okay. I will make the decision to cut bait or marry her. This decision will be made soon. If she decides to leave then that is okay too.

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 180
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 180
I have to agree here with those telling you to run.

Its one thing if you are married with children. By all means in that case do the counseling thing, and try everything possible to save the marriage.

But you are not even married yet.

Ladies, I understand that sex, or a lack thereof, is often due to other issues. But I know for a fact that some women, manipulative ones, use it as a tool for getting what they want. Not saying this applies to your case Bob, but it happens.

Anyway, my advice is for you to bail. THis woman has been married 4 times already. That alone would set off warning bells the size of China in my head. I would though continue to see the counselor to work on your issues. Get yourself figured out, see what you did wrong, and correct them if possible.

But do not marry this woman. There other women out there who enjoy sex and will not hold it against you.


The opposite of love isn't hate...it's indifference
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 87
4
Member
Offline
Member
4
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 87
Re: AaronGA

[/quote] If you are in control of all the finances and everything, then you need to make her just step up to the plate or get the f*C^ out. I have had a few relation ships that start out hot and heavy, and when my partner would try to cool things down.
LOVE is a strong word, but my demand for sexual gratification is much stronger than my patients. I have no problem being "faithful" I have always been a one woman man.
You need to really just give her a reality check. All you are asking for is a damn release! It dont take her more than 15 minutes to just lay there and let you do your thing. Explain to her that 15 minutes saves her having to be homeless with her 2 children.
This may sound cold, but I don't like false persona if I fall in love with some one and they change. Then they are not entilted to the same love any more. [/quote]

Geez!!! Now, exactly where are you right now, relationship wise? And how do you communicate with your S/O?

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Fordude 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
1 members (1 invisible), 16 guests, and 90 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Dodo M, Kingpin, MikaylaVaux, I.P., Alex82
71,727 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,545
Posts2,322,787
Members71,728
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2020, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.  |  Web Development by SunStar Media.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5